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Japan to help Thailand construct high speed train

webfact

By webfact
in Thailand News

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chainarong Ruby Member

chainarong

Posted
Posted

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They seem obsessed with the term "HST High Speed Train".

I can understand in a way since anything going over 50 miles an hour 80km/h would be considered high speed by the Thais.

Let's be realistic. What they seem to be aiming for is an efficient and fast railway system on standard gauge trackage on a decent right of way linking Thailand & Cambodia with Dawei.

The Japanese had it partly right over 70 years ago when they set out to link to Burma & Rangoon via Sankhlaburi or perhaps that would cross sacred ground?

Except for the line over the River Kwai , there is only 3 klm left of the per way at the museum at Hell fire pass, however one hopes that the labour hire is much more appealing this time around and you are right it is heavy standard gauge not HST, probably the max speed with a light rail car would be 140 klm hr 70 MPH.

dragonfly94 Silver Member

dragonfly94

Posted
Posted

DEATH Railway Mk2.

How about getting the Chinese involved from start to finish.?

There are just too many Butchered POW Ghosts lurking around, as a result of the last time the Japs were involved in Railway Building in Thailand.

My grandfather was seriously wounded in the defence of Darwin in 1942, and would never buy a Japanese product. His biggest insult of a business was "I wouldn't send a Jap there on Anzac Day." He has been dead quite some time, and after 70+ years, I would have the thought the attitude might be too.

I was in a car with the mrs and 2 Japanese about 4 years ago, we were on the way to kanchanaburi, nothing to do with the bridge or the war. The Japanese were constantly talking on the way but as soon as I mentioned I would like to see the bridge they instantly stopped chatting to anyone and never said another word for about half an uneasy hour. Seems to me the Japanese still have an 'attitude' as well.

PlastikbinLina Advanced Member

PlastikbinLina

Posted
Posted

Once it opens I will be taking bets on how long it will be before their is a derailment at speed and hundreds are killed.

Personally, I will be avoiding it like a dose of the clap.

I agree. As I said to my wife recently, up and down left and right or wherever we travel by rail is always very enjoyable at slow speed. The clickity clack of the wheels on steel and watching the country side go past at leisure and a cold beer, what more can one want? On a fast train here I wouldn't be able to relax thinking about the possibility of a damn buffalo on the line somewhere. Maintenance of any type here is a troublesome concern

ratcatcher Diamond Member

ratcatcher

Posted
Posted

One thing this article fails to note is the importance of the gauge chosen. It vaguely says it's "a" standard, which is very true, there are a number of standard gauges. Most of Japan is narrow gauge (for interesting historical reasons) but high-speed rail would have to be wider, so perhaps they're choosing the shinkansen gauge. The Chinese may well use another, though one would hope there's some standardisation happening in Asia.

There is only one truly "standard" gauge, that being the 1.435 metre - 4ft 81/2". This will be the track standard for any new railways in Thailand.

The Shinkansen is merely Japan's term for the "standard gauge track". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gauge

China uses "standard" gauge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge

richusa Advanced Member

richusa

Posted
Posted

What a scary thought..........RIDING A HIGH SPPED TRAIN IN THAILAND.

PUT ALL THE THAI GOVERNMENT IN 1 CAR AND ,LET IT GO......

They cannot even manage to safely operate a train going 15 mph.

JAG Gold Member

JAG

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hornby have been asked to supply the rolling stock.

In case you are not aware Hornby are model railway company catering for enthusiasts who wish to build their own model railway in a guage of 1-176 ( 00 Guage ).

Interestingly enough the models ( and very good they are too) are made in China!

(I am 90% of the way to persuading best beloved to let me have some)!

Edited by JAG
  • Like 1
Johnnie99 Gold Member

Johnnie99

Posted
Posted

I don't wish to appear negative about this project but ... a high-speed railway in Thailand?

Will Thai people maintain the track ... ?

Will accident insurance be mandatory for passengers?

empireboy Silver Member

empireboy

Posted
Posted

I heard Leggo wanted to do the job but Matel paid more money under the table and secured the gig with Thomas the Tank Engine!

  • Like 1
ratcatcher Diamond Member

ratcatcher

Posted
Posted

I don't wish to appear negative about this project but ... a high-speed railway in Thailand?

Will Thai people maintain the track ... ?

Will accident insurance be mandatory for passengers?

You may not wish to appear negative, but that is certainly my impression.

Do you think the Canadians, Americans, Indians have responsible railroad maintenance? Yet they still have accidents. I seriously doubt we will see any HSTbullet trains a la Shinkansen, TGV, in Thailand in the next 10 years. What we will hopefully see is a system with fast, efficient, passenger and freight trains running on standard gauge double tracks at reasonable fares and freight rates.

Thailand desperately needs to get some of these heavy trucks off the roads, whether they will, is another matter. England is a good example.

Corruption reduction or eradication is the key to the problem and this being Thailand, may take a little longer.

Jimbo2014 Gold Member

Jimbo2014

Posted
Posted

Australia needs to adopt more of the Thai spirit. We could have the japanese build our railways one way and chinese the other and germans our ports and americans our roads. We could all just drink whisky until our credit imploded and we had to reboot our economy. Sweet deal!.

natway09 Platinum Member

natway09

Posted
Posted

Suggestion

Government take out the teeth of the SRT first (They have proven to be the most incompetent government department in this country for 50 years)

also very corrupt, just ask Central or Hopewell.

Then sit down & make a decision on what guage Thailand will use from now on. (Then BAN any body or organization from building any other size in the future)

The only way an economical, efficient network can be sustained is to be able to interchange rolling stock between railroads.

What the above is saying is, Thailand, don't fall into the same trap again , bite the bullet & do it right this time even if have to upset one of our neighbours

rickirs Platinum Member

rickirs

Posted
Posted

"investment ratios between Thailand and Japan"

With the Chinese the investment ratio was Thailand 20% and China 80%. I wouldn't expect the baht-hoarding Junta to settle for anything more than 20%. Of course the less investment Thailand has in a project, the less owneship and control it has in the project. The result is that for the next 20 years like in the Chinese rail way project, Thailand makes to make net income only from operations & maintenance of the project while the foreign country makes a return from debt service from day one of financing.

nong38 Platinum Member

nong38

Posted
Posted

Thailand doesn't need a 'high speed' railway system, it needs a railway system with two sets of tracks so if one train is delayed the whole set-up doesn't grind to a halt.

High-speed rail is Big Boy's Toys for countries that already have an efficient, functioning rail system, money to spare and want to show off a bit to their neighbours.

As an aside, what's with the 'Standard' gauge of 1.435 metres? I thought perhaps it was a conversion from feet and inches, but when I googled the conversion, I got 56.496063 inches.

Huh? Where did that gauge come from? It's not an obvious number to come up with. I mean, did a bunch of early railway engineers sit around discussing how wide to make the tracks, and decide: "Yes, I think 1.435 metres would be a good width". Why not 1.5 metres? Any railway buffs out there who can enlighten me?

Standard guage is 4 feet 8 and a half inches. It was the distance between to cart wheels being dragged by a horse in the (British) Industrial Revolution.

ratcatcher Diamond Member

ratcatcher

Posted
Posted

Thailand doesn't need a 'high speed' railway system, it needs a railway system with two sets of tracks so if one train is delayed the whole set-up doesn't grind to a halt.

High-speed rail is Big Boy's Toys for countries that already have an efficient, functioning rail system, money to spare and want to show off a bit to their neighbours.

As an aside, what's with the 'Standard' gauge of 1.435 metres? I thought perhaps it was a conversion from feet and inches, but when I googled the conversion, I got 56.496063 inches.

Huh? Where did that gauge come from? It's not an obvious number to come up with. I mean, did a bunch of early railway engineers sit around discussing how wide to make the tracks, and decide: "Yes, I think 1.435 metres would be a good width". Why not 1.5 metres? Any railway buffs out there who can enlighten me?

Standard guage is 4 feet 8 and a half inches. It was the distance between to cart wheels being dragged by a horse in the (British) Industrial Revolution.

thumbsup.gif The beginnings of the 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in gauge

George Stephenson's Stockton and Darlington railway (S&DR) was built primarily to transport coal from mines near Shildon to the port at Stockton-on-Tees. The initial gauge of 4 ft 8 in (1,422 mm) was set to accommodate the existing gauge of hundreds of horse-drawn chaldron wagons[11] that were already in use on the wagonways in the mines. The railway used this gauge for 15 years before a change was made to 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in gauge.[10][12]

Wiki

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

nisakiman Silver Member

nisakiman

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thailand doesn't need a 'high speed' railway system, it needs a railway system with two sets of tracks so if one train is delayed the whole set-up doesn't grind to a halt.

High-speed rail is Big Boy's Toys for countries that already have an efficient, functioning rail system, money to spare and want to show off a bit to their neighbours.

As an aside, what's with the 'Standard' gauge of 1.435 metres? I thought perhaps it was a conversion from feet and inches, but when I googled the conversion, I got 56.496063 inches.

Huh? Where did that gauge come from? It's not an obvious number to come up with. I mean, did a bunch of early railway engineers sit around discussing how wide to make the tracks, and decide: "Yes, I think 1.435 metres would be a good width". Why not 1.5 metres? Any railway buffs out there who can enlighten me?

Standard guage is 4 feet 8 and a half inches. It was the distance between to cart wheels being dragged by a horse in the (British) Industrial Revolution.

thumbsup.gif The beginnings of the 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in gauge

George Stephenson's Stockton and Darlington railway (S&DR) was built primarily to transport coal from mines near Shildon to the port at Stockton-on-Tees. The initial gauge of 4 ft 8 in (1,422 mm) was set to accommodate the existing gauge of hundreds of horse-drawn chaldron wagons[11] that were already in use on the wagonways in the mines. The railway used this gauge for 15 years before a change was made to 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in gauge.[10][12]

Wiki

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

I appreciate the posts pointing out where the 'Standard Gauge' originated, and indeed I didn't know before now. However, I'm still flummoxed as to why, even if the cartwheels tended to be 4'8" apart, why they didn't go to a simpler figure of, say, 5' for rail. It would have been simple to put spacers on the cartwheels. And actually, given the fact that horses, like people, come in all shapes and sizes, why was 4'8" made the standard? Why not 4'6" or 5'?

Maybe I'm just too logical...

It's a funny old world, and that's a fact! smile.png Still, it makes life interesting!

Edited by nisakiman
Thongkorn Platinum Member

Thongkorn

Posted
Posted

What a scary thought..........RIDING A HIGH SPPED TRAIN IN THAILAND.

PUT ALL THE THAI GOVERNMENT IN 1 CAR AND ,LET IT GO......

They cannot even manage to safely operate a train going 15 mph.

will we have to wear helmetsrolleyes.gif

rametindallas Platinum Member

rametindallas

Posted
Posted

They seem obsessed with the term "HST High Speed Train".

I can understand in a way since anything going over 50 miles an hour 80km/h would be considered high speed by the Thais.

Let's be realistic. What they seem to be aiming for is an efficient and fast railway system on standard gauge trackage on a decent right of way linking Thailand & Cambodia with Dawei.

The Japanese had it partly right over 70 years ago when they set out to link to Burma & Rangoon via Sankhlaburi or perhaps that would cross sacred ground?

Maybe this time they won't name the Japanese part of the rail system, "Death Railway".

  • Like 1
englishoak Ruby Member

englishoak

Posted
Posted (edited)

They seem obsessed with the term "HST High Speed Train".

I can understand in a way since anything going over 50 miles an hour 80km/h would be considered high speed by the Thais.

Let's be realistic. What they seem to be aiming for is an efficient and fast railway system on standard gauge trackage on a decent right of way linking Thailand & Cambodia with Dawei.

The Japanese had it partly right over 70 years ago when they set out to link to Burma & Rangoon via Sankhlaburi or perhaps that would cross sacred ground?

Maybe this time they won't name the Japanese part of the rail system, "Death Railway".

If the roads are anything to go by give it a year of opening and it will get called that.......

Edited by englishoak
Cake Monster Ruby Member

Cake Monster

Posted
Posted

This move to invest in Thailand,s rail infrastructure, is a very shrewd move indeed by Japan.

As Myanmar opens up more, the Japanese will be able to relocate manufacturing plants to there, and transport raw materials in, and goods out, useing the rail system they invested in.

Goods will be able to move overland, quickly and cheaply, completely bypassing Thailand, to Seaports in Vietnam, for distribution world wide ( Mainly USA and China ).

Gonsalviz Platinum Member

Gonsalviz

Posted
Posted

Sorry, Japan, but China came first, according to our dear former general and current PM

China is doing the top to bottom - Japan seems to be doing the left to right

The Japanese are straight people with no corruption like the Chinese.

The Japanese also help Siam to take back Laos and Khmer (including the Angkor Wat) before.

LOL

IsaanUSA Gold Member

IsaanUSA

Posted
Posted (edited)

I thought I'd post this Yahoo Singapore story re HST.

It seems the Malaysians have plans to build a HST system from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore. Just wondering if the Chinese/Thais have their plans organized or is this a case of who's going to build from Padang Besar to KL?

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/bullet-trains-japan-shinkansen-experience-malaysia-future-120400063.html

You probably won't get a good reply in a Thai forum in a thread talking about a Japanese rail story, but I Googled it and this deal *might* be something.

http://www.therakyatpost.com/business/2014/12/02/china-firm-wins-kl-ipoh-highspeed-rail-award/

http://www.ecns.cn/business/2014/12-02/144965.shtml

Better to look on other forums that more enthusiasts use, such as skyscrapercity or others.

EDIT : Actually clicked your link. Looks like nobody knows whats going to happen. China and Japan are both trying to win contracts.

Edited by IsaanUSA
theslime Silver Member

theslime

Posted
Posted

Sorry, Japan, but China came first, according to our dear former general and current PM

China is doing the top to bottom - Japan seems to be doing the left to right

The Japanese are straight people with no corruption like the Chinese.

The Japanese also help Siam to take back Laos and Khmer (including the Angkor Wat) before.

all countries have corruption but not all countries have Yakuza or Lockheed scandles.

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