Q&A: Thailand's railway system shows its age

[webfact]

Q&A: Thailand's railway system shows its age
China is to build a 3,000km, high-speed rail line that will connect the country to Southeast Asia.
Divya Gopalan

(Al Jazeera) According to the China Railway Corporation, a 3,000km, high-speed rail line will be built that will connect the country to Southeast Asia.

The line will be constructed in four stages.

First, from the city of Kunming in China to Vientiane, the capital of Laos. Then the route will continue to Bangkok, where it will split, heading to both Thailand's southern and northern provinces. The Bangkok line will carry on to Kuala Lumpur, ending in Singapore.

Even though Thailand's railway system needs an upgrade, many are asking who will really benefit from this project Al Jazeera spoke to Dr. Ruth Banomyong, Professor of Logistics and Transport at Thammasat University, and an adviser to Thailand's transport department on this train project.

Al Jazeera: Explain why trains and tracks in China are currently not compatible with those of Southeast Asia.

Dr. Ruth Banomyong: There is no standard width for railways around the world. For China, it's 1.44 metres, it's wider, so theoretically they can have higher speed trains and can carry more freight. In Southeast Asia, in Thailand in particular, we have the one metre gauge. It's an old relic from colonial times and it's a system that's promoted by ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations).

Full story: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/01/qa-thailand-china-asia-high-speed-railway-system-150130175233709.html

-- Al Jazeera 2015-02-04

[chooka]

All those boxed lunches they organised for passengers on the high speed rail a few years back must be approaching thier use by date.

[tullynagardy]

This article is from last week, not exactly breaking! Anyway I digress

linking with Thailand gives them another opportunity for access to the sea

Is anyone else bemused by this line? China has 9000 miles of coastline, why the hell does it need access to the sea!?

[apetley]

So Thailand's narrow gauge is a relic of colonial times is it? Don't let the General read that or he'll likely rip up the contract.

[aguy30]

First, from the city of Kunming in China to Vientiane, the capital of Laos. Then the route will continue to Bangkok, where it will split, heading to both Thailand's southern and northern provinces. The Bangkok line will carry on to Kuala Lumpur, ending in Singapore.

Thailand be cautious, very cautious. Trojan horse comes to mind. China only give gifts when they will receive a huge benefit.

This is in line with China becoming the most powerful country in the world. This rail line offers a huge military benefit to China. Asean counties can become China provincences in the near future as China expands its grip on Southern Asia. Won't be long before Mandarin is taught in Thai and other Asean schools as a first language.

[Ricardo]

Dr. Ruth Banomyong: There is no standard width for railways around the world.

Oh yes there is, and it's called 'standard gauge', which is what China uses !

And it too is a relic of colonial times, when we Brits financed & engineered much of the world's railway-network, using meter-gauge & other narrow-gauges for mountain-railways & logging-lines & less-heavily-trafficked routes when appropriate.

One might have expected an expert in transport & logistics to know things like this ? Any British schoolboy/trainspotter would !

[Jay Sata]

I look forward to seeing lots of Buffaloes stuck to the front of the train when it arrives in Bangkok plus a couple of pickup trucks wrapped around the wheels.

I hope they leave plenty of width in the aisles for the somtam vendors.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Jay Sata

[dru2]

This article is from last week, not exactly breaking! Anyway I digress

linking with Thailand gives them another opportunity for access to the sea

Is anyone else bemused by this line? China has 9000 miles of coastline, why the hell does it need access to the sea!?

The eastern ports are always busy, causing an export problem for major western inland provinces like Yunnan and above all Sichuan (in excess of 100 million population). These provinces have been seeking alternative access via Indian Ocean ports for 15-20 years.

[jcisco]

I visted the bridge over the river kwai at katchanaburi last year, while walking over the bridge i noticed a fishplate very loose so bent over wound the bolts down as uselessly tight as I could make them. Only then to notice the ties were also not bolted down well and i could deflect the rail over 30 cm, total state of disrepair. I wound up what lose things I could spot the rest of the way over when our guide told me the line was still in use.

Absolutely scary and further to that, not sure it matters on a bridge, but they were all bolted single side on the fishplates. I'd hate to find out this the entire state of the thai railways.

[kalbo123]

This article is from last week, not exactly breaking! Anyway I digress

linking with Thailand gives them another opportunity for access to the sea

Is anyone else bemused by this line? China has 9000 miles of coastline, why the hell does it need access to the sea!?

It saves about a week to reach Europe!

[ratcatcher]

This article is from last week, not exactly breaking! Anyway I digress

linking with Thailand gives them another opportunity for access to the sea

Is anyone else bemused by this line? China has 9000 miles of coastline, why the hell does it need access to the sea!?

It saves about a week to reach Europe!

If they, the Chinese, really wanted to save shipping time, a direct connection to Myanmar's ports, and thus the Indian Ocean, would avoid the delays that will occur if they ship through Laos, Thailand, Malaysia to Singapore and then through Malacca Straits to the Indian Ocean..

http://www.mpa.gov.mm/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=13〈=en

[asdecas]

I look forward to seeing lots of Buffaloes stuck to the front of the train when it arrives in Bangkok plus a couple of pickup trucks wrapped around the wheels.

I hope they leave plenty of width in the aisles for the somtam vendors.

Or hitting the Hualampong buffers at 200kph rather than at 50kph, as in November 1986: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_%281980%E2%80%9389%29

[Jay Sata]

Lots of new houses will spring up near the route built with materials scammed from the construction.

[wirat69]

Thailand be cautious, very cautious. Trojan horse comes to mind. China only give gifts when they will receive a huge benefit.

....ummmm sharing Happiness and Thainess will be a huge benefit in dealing with dissidents like Hong Kong and Tibet!

[lujanit]

No western country would allow humans to travel on a thai style railroad. I travelled by train to Hua Hin from BKK last year and it was a bone rattling scares hell journey. Never again!

[bheard]

"Thailand be cautious, very cautious. Trojan horse comes to mind. China only give gifts when they will receive a huge benefit."

Resistance is useless!

[ratcatcher]

No western country would allow humans to travel on a thai style railroad. I travelled by train to Hua Hin from BKK last year and it was a bone rattling scares hell journey. Never again!

That is because Thailand isn't a western country and you didn't pay western style fares to get to Hua Hin. You obviously haven't spent much time on trains in other less fortunate countries.

In the meantime, Thailand's, rather antiquated, yet functional railway system will continue to carry millions of Thais as it has for a a century.

Peppered amongst those Thais will be a few farangs interested in seeing the real Thailand. Buses and vans are faster, but more dangerous.

Be careful getting out of bed.

[Kiwisailor]

Still rather travel by train to the south in preference to the bus system. Much safer than the roads, plenty of room to move about and your luggage (and most of it's contents!) is still there in the morning. Just need to remember to buy beer well away from the station, store in cool bag and consume in comfort once your bed is made up and the curtains pulled.

[Farang99]

Dr. Ruth Banomyong: There is no standard width for railways around the world.

Oh yes there is, and it's called 'standard gauge', which is what China uses !

And it too is a relic of colonial times, when we Brits financed & engineered much of the world's railway-network, using meter-gauge & other narrow-gauges for mountain-railways & logging-lines & less-heavily-trafficked routes when appropriate.

One might have expected an expert in transport & logistics to know things like this ? Any British schoolboy/trainspotter would !

Standard gauge is 4ft 8" IIRC, and not metric, so that measurement is incomprehensible to most people.

[halloween]

First, from the city of Kunming in China to Vientiane, the capital of Laos. Then the route will continue to Bangkok, where it will split, heading to both Thailand's southern and northern provinces. The Bangkok line will carry on to Kuala Lumpur, ending in Singapore.

Thailand be cautious, very cautious. Trojan horse comes to mind. China only give gifts when they will receive a huge benefit.

This is in line with China becoming the most powerful country in the world. This rail line offers a huge military benefit to China. Asean counties can become China provincences in the near future as China expands its grip on Southern Asia. Won't be long before Mandarin is taught in Thai and other Asean schools as a first language.

Oh dear. The cunning plan to use railways to invade neighbouring countries was the basis plan of Germany's invasion of France and Belgium in 1914. For some strange reason the retreating troops ripped up the tracks behind them and destroyed their bridges. You may remember how that ended.

[halloween]

Standard gauge is 4ft 8" IIRC, and not metric, so that measurement is incomprehensible to most people.

Almost. Standard gauge is 4' 8 and 1/2" 4'8" is known as Almost Standard Gauge.

[mikemac]

No western country would allow humans to travel on a thai style railroad. I travelled by train to Hua Hin from BKK last year and it was a bone rattling scares hell journey. Never again!

Oh really ? You don't seem to know much about the infrastructure of some western countries that is very much beyond the "use by" date.

I found this site recently which highlights the problem the USA is facing concerning out of date infrastructure, road, rail, air and sea related -

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/falling-apart-america-neglected-infrastructure/

Read the story, paying careful attention to the part concerning the rail system, watch the video, and then think again about the Thai rail system.

[mikemac]

First, from the city of Kunming in China to Vientiane, the capital of Laos. Then the route will continue to Bangkok, where it will split, heading to both Thailand's southern and northern provinces. The Bangkok line will carry on to Kuala Lumpur, ending in Singapore.

Thailand be cautious, very cautious. Trojan horse comes to mind. China only give gifts when they will receive a huge benefit.

This is in line with China becoming the most powerful country in the world. This rail line offers a huge military benefit to China. Asean counties can become China provincences in the near future as China expands its grip on Southern Asia. Won't be long before Mandarin is taught in Thai and other Asean schools as a first language.

Oh dear. The cunning plan to use railways to invade neighbouring countries was the basis plan of Germany's invasion of France and Belgium in 1914. For some strange reason the retreating troops ripped up the tracks behind them and destroyed their bridges. You may remember how that ended.

The biggest fear in Thailand regarding a Chinese invasion is tourists !

[tullynagardy]

This article is from last week, not exactly breaking! Anyway I digress

linking with Thailand gives them another opportunity for access to the sea

Is anyone else bemused by this line? China has 9000 miles of coastline, why the hell does it need access to the sea!?

The eastern ports are always busy, causing an export problem for major western inland provinces like Yunnan and above all Sichuan (in excess of 100 million population). These provinces have been seeking alternative access via Indian Ocean ports for 15-20 years.

As is highlighted above, it`s hardly the most efficient way to the Indian ocean is it!? Furthermore this new line doesn`t even connect with the Indian ocean, re-read the plans for it, it goes to Singapore.

Finally it would be much cheaper and easier for the Chinese to simply build a new port.

She`s talking nonsense.

[jcisco]

Hangon.. a second cheaper? The minimum expense for a deep water port the likes of which the chinese would need, would run a minimum of 3 Billion. And then there is the lead time, how long to bring it online and fully fit it with connecting roads and infrastructure? Right of way through to the Singapore port would be far cheaper in and can be leveraged and generate an overall profit on the build and still deliver capacity to port.

Furthermore, there would be a huge push to put any rail through malaysia to connect to its seaports in the strait, I don't see how they would agree to allowing singapore get all the business.

[Jay Sata]

A Burmese sea port would make a lot more sense and be cheaper to construct for China than routing through Malaysia to Singapore where they would have no control.

[bangon04]

No western country would allow humans to travel on a thai style railroad. I travelled by train to Hua Hin from BKK last year and it was a bone rattling scares hell journey. Never again!

That is because Thailand isn't a western country and you didn't pay western style fares to get to Hua Hin. You obviously haven't spent much time on trains in other less fortunate countries.

In the meantime, Thailand's, rather antiquated, yet functional railway system will continue to carry millions of Thais as it has for a a century.

Peppered amongst those Thais will be a few farangs interested in seeing the real Thailand. Buses and vans are faster, but more dangerous.

Be careful getting out of bed.

The Imperial Japanese Railway has served Thailand well over the years. Without it Thailand might still be a third world country....

[trainman34014]

The Chinese need a fast railway for their invasion forces to take over the whole of South East Asia when the time comes.

The most 'amazing' thing about Thailand is every time a so called 'expert' on anything opens their mouth they sound like complete idiots.