Popular Post paddyjenkins Posted February 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.Thais are brought up to believe Thailand and its people are above other people and above other countries. Thats what they are taught in school. The truth is the US is a vast, powerful and successful economy. Granted, its been through an economic crisis recently, but all evidence suggests it is fast recovering, growing and creating jobs and its currency has been the worlds strongest for the past year. Thailand by comparison is a tiny economy, it is a century or so behind the US in its development, especially in terms of education and human rights, and is militarily insignificant. So i really see no reason for the US to march to Thailand's orders, and i see no reason why the US should not express opinions or stick to their principles. It is clear to me at least that Thailand is the flea and the US is the dog. If the flea wants to jump onto China then so be it, it wont really matter. The sooner Thailand wakes up to reality the better for Thailand and Thai people because its never healthy to suffer delusions of grandeur. Then they might stop acting like a spoiled, self entitled brat throwing tantrums and thinking the world revolves around them. Edited February 9, 2015 by paddyjenkins 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The. NExt time Thailand has a catastrophe I hope China is the first in with aid and assistance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devaram Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.Oh really?Who is throwing temper tantrums every fifteen minutes especially after the U.S. envoy critisized the Junta? It looks to me like the US are the adults here. The U.S. does some evil things but they also do allot of good and they do sometimes stand up for the trampled rights of civilian populations such as in Thailand today. China will suck up to the Junta for the sake of business and political influence but the U.S. seems to not indulging this crying brat government. Edited February 9, 2015 by devaram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spidermike007 Posted February 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) The US can meet with representatives of Mugabe, Kim the Fat, Amin, Castro, and other heinous regimes like the Chinese govt., the Saudis, and Iran, but they will not meet with the NLA. More intelligent policy emanating from Blundering Barry, and John "diplomatic skill has escaped me" Kerry. They are sending some strange messages when they continue to support an overseas felon, who bought his votes, and snub the military. You do not have to like a party, to sit down with that party and have discussions. You do not have to agree with them, but you sit down with them, and discuss your agenda. The US is behaving like a petulant child. Though they are still important, their influence is waning by the day. And I say that as an American. Granted, a disobedient American, who does not listen to the black and white, "Cheney style rhetoric" still being employed by men with lesser minds. Edited February 9, 2015 by spidermike007 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.right,just pointing out the elephant in the room to the Thai 'government' in the nicest of ways and then not reacting to the current right-wing nationalist fascists and their summons is 'acting like a child'... ok, if you say so... You can pin labels all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this is the current gov and controls Thailand. The US should address them even if they don't like who or how this happened if they want to keep Thailand as a friend. Either way with China offering their kindness (hehee) and the USA ignoring them it is easy to see who will be Thailand's newest closest friend. The USA should be considering this. And your point is what exactly? Thailand is so strategically important. Losing Thailand is going to be a loss for the USA. Not really. USA can set a base in Indonesia to cover the region from Strait of Malacca to South China Sea, the home country of Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well done. ...and the NLA "understands"- as if they have another choice! Clowns, all of them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kblaze Posted February 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why don't the Americans look back at their track record of installing their brand of democracy on other sovereign states. Not a particularly successful set of achievements was it, is it ? So perhaps the inability or the unwillingness of the American envoy to actually appear and explain his governments comments indicate that the truth is becoming unpalatable to the Americans in general and their governments control freak colonial aspirations. America, put your own house in order before you start ordering other sovereign states around. can you please show one instance of the US "ordering Thailand around"? not recommendations, wishes, hopes, etc. but "orders" like you so foolishly post. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nahkit Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.Not at all they just don't want to deal with unelected governments and those who force the will on their people. I guess you are one of those people who defends Thailand on everything whether right or wrong.By the way I am not American but agree on what they are doing distancing themselves from an undemocratic government that promised elections early and have now gone back on their word with elections even later than first said. I can foresee relations getting worse in the next few months. Actually I neither support and defend nor do I disagree with what has happened here. My opinion is unimportant and changes nothing. The USA has dealt with other countries that have unelected gov. They are trying to impose their will on Thai people who don't care. Putting the USA in a bad light and making Thai people have sour feelings to America and Americans. The USA needs to keep channels open because the junta will not be here forever. Also, elected or unelected the USA knew the gov here was corrupt and knew that civil war was near. They didn't care and remained at a distance. So whatever happens next the USA is making happen by their actions or inactions. "So whatever happens next the USA is making happen by their actions or inactions." So there we have it, whatever the USA do or don't do, it will still be all their fault. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why don't the Americans look back at their track record of installing their brand of democracy on other sovereign states. Not a particularly successful set of achievements was it, is it ? So perhaps the inability or the unwillingness of the American envoy to actually appear and explain his governments comments indicate that the truth is becoming unpalatable to the Americans in general and their governments control freak colonial aspirations. America, put your own house in order before you start ordering other sovereign states around. their governments control freak colonial aspirations. Please provide me with the list of countries that America has colonized. Or interfered with: Cuba The Philippines Hawaii I think you are OK with the 1st two. However Hawaii is the 50th state of The USA. You can see it is clearly an American state by the state flag. hawaii flag.png I see stripes. Where are the stars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freed1948 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why don't the Americans look back at their track record of installing their brand of democracy on other sovereign states. Not a particularly successful set of achievements was it, is it ? So perhaps the inability or the unwillingness of the American envoy to actually appear and explain his governments comments indicate that the truth is becoming unpalatable to the Americans in general and their governments control freak colonial aspirations. America, put your own house in order before you start ordering other sovereign states around. their governments control freak colonial aspirations. Please provide me with the list of countries that America has colonized. Or interfered with: Cuba The Philippines Hawaii I think you are OK with the 1st two. However Hawaii is the 50th state of The USA. You can see it is clearly an American state by the state flag. hawaii flag.png It was an independent country when it was invaded in the late 1800s. It has only been a state since the late 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 their governments control freak colonial aspirations. Please provide me with the list of countries that America has colonized. Or interfered with: Cuba The Philippines Hawaii I think you are OK with the 1st two. However Hawaii is the 50th state of The USA. You can see it is clearly an American state by the state flag. hawaii flag.png I see stripes. Where are the stars? They fell into the sar chasm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarpoFongness4U Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 USA doesn't deal w unelected government? Iran? Palestinian Abbas? Egypts Al-Sisi? What's that again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why don't the Americans look back at their track record of installing their brand of democracy on other sovereign states. Not a particularly successful set of achievements was it, is it ? So perhaps the inability or the unwillingness of the American envoy to actually appear and explain his governments comments indicate that the truth is becoming unpalatable to the Americans in general and their governments control freak colonial aspirations. America, put your own house in order before you start ordering other sovereign states around. their governments control freak colonial aspirations. Please provide me with the list of countries that America has colonized. Or interfered with: Cuba The Philippines Hawaii Please don't add your crap to my post and make it look like something I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Going back in history a few years to the coup that overthrew Thaksin, the USA barely registered an objection to that coup. The USA was quiet as a mouse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercool Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Post with comments made inside a quote were removed along with replies quoting it. Please ensure that quotes are not altered and any comment made are outside of any quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangraiTony Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thailand will be changing quickly with ASEAN and now partnering more with China. The issue will soon become, are these changes best for Thailand and its people. China is relentless always trying to get their foot in the door. Now, they will soon have both feet in the door and eventually they will have a strong footing. Once that happens Thailand will become more funerable to the smart Chinese who know how to introduce inferior products. This will continue and create many more problems for Thailand. Let's just hope that Thailand doesn't get cornered to the point where China becomes the controlling power. China has much to gain and would be delighted to move forward where the U.S. left off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.right,just pointing out the elephant in the room to the Thai 'government' in the nicest of ways and then not reacting to the current right-wing nationalist fascists and their summons is 'acting like a child'... ok, if you say so... You can pin labels all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this is the current gov and controls Thailand. The US should address them even if they don't like who or how this happened if they want to keep Thailand as a friend. Either way with China offering their kindness (hehee) and the USA ignoring them it is easy to see who will be Thailand's newest closest friend. The USA should be considering this. US representatives have met and are meeting Thai representatives unannounced and off the radar. This is called the Back Channel, and it exists. As funny as it may sound, it is a way to save face. The US officially does not violate its own laws, the junta is reassured that posturing and statements will not become policy that interferes with commerce and security (I presume unless both human trafficking and democracy are both ignored for too long). The poresumption is speculative. The existence of the Back Channel is not speculation. It is a real channel that never makes the news. Apparently the government, being inexperienced in diplomacy, had it explained to them. The vitriolic and insane comments (like the one Thai who declared the US ready to invade Thailand) have almost gone to zero. Apparently, something shifted. I think I explained it well enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) The. NExt time Thailand has a catastrophe I hope China is the first in with aid and assistance. They probably don't have the ability. For instance, in the 2004 earthquake and tsunami, even Thailand lost more than 5,000 people in the South Andaman Sea side. That was a disaster. The US has nuclear powered ships, each of which can convert 50,000 gallons of saltwater seawater into fresh drinking water every hour, and lay lines to pump it to shore. They were there for Indonesia and others. The US sent its hospital ships with full-on operating rooms and supply ships with helicopters to carry food and other supplies onto land. It landed equipment to clear runways and flew in more supplies. Much of this equipment wasn't all that far away, in Guam and Diego Garcia, and others were at sea and they headed straight for the affected areas. I really don't care if Thailand aligns with China. It would lose its Japanese and American manufacturing in a heartbeat to Burma and elsewhere, and with The Phils actively inviting business, the US moving back into Clark Air Force Base and Subic Bay, and Japan afraid of China over threatened Islands and solidly in the USA camp, I could watch Thailand rot and never shed a tear. Thailand thinks it is the center of the Universe and it could get its lessons from China. Edited February 9, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.right,just pointing out the elephant in the room to the Thai 'government' in the nicest of ways and then not reacting to the current right-wing nationalist fascists and their summons is 'acting like a child'... ok, if you say so... You can pin labels all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this is the current gov and controls Thailand. The US should address them even if they don't like who or how this happened if they want to keep Thailand as a friend. Either way with China offering their kindness (hehee) and the USA ignoring them it is easy to see who will be Thailand's newest closest friend. The USA should be considering this. US representatives have met and are meeting Thai representatives unannounced and off the radar. This is called the Back Channel, and it exists. As funny as it may sound, it is a way to save face. The US officially does not violate its own laws, the junta is reassured that posturing and statements will not become policy that interferes with commerce and security (I presume unless both human trafficking and democracy are both ignored for too long). The poresumption is speculative. The existence of the Back Channel is not speculation. It is a real channel that never makes the news. Apparently the government, being inexperienced in diplomacy, had it explained to them. The vitriolic and insane comments (like the one Thai who declared the US ready to invade Thailand) have almost gone to zero. Apparently, something shifted. I think I explained it well enough. Ahhh...this is why the US is so endeared to Thaksin and his puppets. They too love back channels and under the table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 NLA had been informed about the decision and understood well well well, ... the NLA 'understands'... the MFA finally has some one who "understands", just not the people they want to "understand" nor the topic they want to have "understood"... what a hoot. Since it would seem you understand, could you explain "According to the United States, there is no regulation that allows it to send the charge d'affaires to talk to the NLA." - are local or US regulations meant? - are there regulations to send charge d'affairs to talk with a (foreign) parliament ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paddyjenkins Posted February 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I wonder how many posters here have done business with the Chinese? Well, i have. And the playbook never changes. Stage one is smiles, dinners, promises, gushing proclamations of Chinese honesty and good intentions and just about everything you ask for is verbally agreed to. Stage two is where i as a wise person politely requests to write up contacts, which i require to be in English, i go over with a fine tooth comb, and need to be fully endorsed, stamped, carved into rock. Thats where stage two starts to go wrong. On the Chinese side there are then strange communication difficulties, strange and illogical misunderstandings, delays of key people explained by sudden absences....holidays, illnesses blah blah blah....it carries on like that. There are numerous attempts to wriggle out of what was agreed to and just rely on gentlemen's agreements, inexplicable objections to the most reasonable of requests, even attempts at under the table alternatives. You will carefully and politely explain that X is required and that Y will not be accepted...and they then try Y. Its like that, incredibly stubborn, totally illogical, very uncooperative. So then stage three arrives. This is often ugly. Its ultimatum time, sign or walk, deal with my lawyers instead of me etc. So as Thais throw their tantrums and walk away from the US, the deals between China and Thailand are in stage one now and i very much doubt they know yet about stage two and three and their ignorance will not help them. This is a game where you better play your hand well. I guarantee it will all end in tears and guess who will be doing the crying? Edited February 9, 2015 by paddyjenkins 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinbangkok Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.right,just pointing out the elephant in the room to the Thai 'government' in the nicest of ways and then not reacting to the current right-wing nationalist fascists and their summons is 'acting like a child'... ok, if you say so... You can pin labels all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this is the current gov and controls Thailand. The US should address them even if they don't like who or how this happened if they want to keep Thailand as a friend. Either way with China offering their kindness (hehee) and the USA ignoring them it is easy to see who will be Thailand's newest closest friend. The USA should be considering this. And your point is what exactly? Thailand is so strategically important. Losing Thailand is going to be a loss for the USA. A foreign Prime Minister who does not have an Official Invitation will address the U.S congres. And the Government is powerless. This is snubbing the US Government at the highest levels. Go figure.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why don't the Americans look back at their track record of installing their brand of democracy on other sovereign states. Not a particularly successful set of achievements was it, is it ? So perhaps the inability or the unwillingness of the American envoy to actually appear and explain his governments comments indicate that the truth is becoming unpalatable to the Americans in general and their governments control freak colonial aspirations. America, put your own house in order before you start ordering other sovereign states around. their governments control freak colonial aspirations. Please provide me with the list of countries that America has colonized. I was curious about this also, so looked it up: Wikipaedia: Currently, there remain a total of fifteen territories of the United States, five of which are inhabited: Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Marianas, U. S. Virgin Islandsand American Samoa. The remaining ten territories are the following small islands, atolls and reefs, spread across the Caribbean or the Pacific Ocean, with no native or permanent populations: Palmyra Atoll, Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Wake Island, Midway Islands,Navassa Island and Serranilla Bank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrens54 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.Oh please stop it. I haven't seen the U.S throwing world class tantrums and smashing thier toys. I wish they would because as an Aussie I haven't had a good American bash for some time. It is Thailand who is throwing the big hissy fits like a spoilt brat who isn't getting thier way. I think Thailand is suffering from ADHD. As an Australian, throughout most of my life I have supported "most" things American but I am shocked at the stupidity of Obama and his underlings. The sooner this "Goffy Golfer", the man who talks about an American being beheaded and then goes to play golf, the man who blames the ISIS Burning to Death of a Jordanian Pilot, on the actions of "Christian Crusaders." needs to be removed from Office in a similar fashion, to what happened in Thailand. Send Murphy home. The US Needs Strategically located Thailand, much more than Thailand needs a weak, gutless America. Before "Osama/Obama" tries to lecture The Thai Government on anything, he needs to get his own miserable act together. Obama has stuffed-up the Middle East, is dithering over the Ukraine and now, has the uppity audacity to try to tell Thailand how to conduct business. Bring on 2016 before this bumbling buffoon destroys the world! Edited February 9, 2015 by Torrens54 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric Loh Posted February 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2015 USA doesn't deal w unelected government? Iran? Palestinian Abbas? Egypts Al-Sisi? What's that again? You so wrong. Iran Election June 2013 Palestine Election April 2014 Egypt Election May 2014 Next? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 USA doesn't deal w unelected government? Iran? Palestinian Abbas? Egypts Al-Sisi? What's that again? You so wrong. Iran Election June 2013 Palestine Election April 2014 Egypt Election May 2014 Next? You mean the USA didn't deal with the country's governments before those dates you listed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 US representatives have met and are meeting Thai representatives unannounced and off the radar. This is called the Back Channel, and it exists. As funny as it may sound, it is a way to save face. The US officially does not violate its own laws, the junta is reassured that posturing and statements will not become policy that interferes with commerce and security (I presume unless both human trafficking and democracy are both ignored for too long). The poresumption is speculative. The existence of the Back Channel is not speculation. It is a real channel that never makes the news. Apparently the government, being inexperienced in diplomacy, had it explained to them. The vitriolic and insane comments (like the one Thai who declared the US ready to invade Thailand) have almost gone to zero. Apparently, something shifted. I think I explained it well enough. Ahhh...this is why the US is so endeared to Thaksin and his puppets. They too love back channels and under the table... Nice deflection, but it is a staple of world politics, not an incarnation of US or Thaksin era politics, but I hope you enjoyed your vent. Have a nice nap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Summoned by a bunch of tin pot autocrats? No thanks. "Snubs"? A more accurate scenario of that would be the RTP SNUBS 5 requests to appear before Thailand's Human Rights Commision re: Koh Tao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests.Thais are brought up to believe Thailand and its people are above other people and above other countries. Thats what they are taught in school. The truth is the US is a vast, powerful and successful economy. Granted, its been through an economic crisis recently, but all evidence suggests it is fast recovering, growing and creating jobs and its currency has been the worlds strongest for the past year. Thailand by comparison is a tiny economy, it is a century or so behind the US in its development, especially in terms of education and human rights, and is militarily insignificant. So i really see no reason for the US to march to Thailand's orders, and i see no reason why the US should not express opinions or stick to their principles. It is clear to me at least that Thailand is the flea and the US is the dog. If the flea wants to jump onto China then so be it, it wont really matter. The sooner Thailand wakes up to reality the better for Thailand and Thai people because its never healthy to suffer delusions of grandeur. Then they might stop acting like a spoiled, self entitled brat throwing tantrums and thinking the world revolves around them. Thailand is advance of the USA in human rights 100 years, not behind....see all the shootings and abuses by the US police. All the started wars of the last years (yes that is human right issue), torture, hunting down Assange, supporting regimes like Saudi Arabia, Thailand related: the support of Pol Pot. In compare Thailand is the hub of human rights.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I guess this is yet another push to Thailand into China's arms. The USA is acting like a child with their self serving interests. right, just pointing out the elephant in the room to the Thai 'government' in the nicest of ways and then not reacting to the current right-wing nationalist fascists and their summons is 'acting like a child'... ok, if you say so... I think you don't know the meaning of fascists....But of course not every country can be a lighthouse of democracy and liberal human rights like the best friend of USA: Saudi Arabia... "I think you don't know the meaning of fascists" Au contraire. It's you. Tbthailand put it in a nutshell. fascism |noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. Edited February 9, 2015 by iReason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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