Neighbor in hospital; Insurance will not pay- advise?

[toolkeeper]

This is where the local consulate of the Ukraine can come in handy with informational resources. But, I realize that not everyone has a desire to seek help from their government. So, if he / they are adverse to contacting their consulate/ embassy, then there is not much that can be done without the help of a NGO or a private, wealthy benefactor.

the UKRAINIAN consulate in Thailand can be surfed here: http://thailand.mfa.gov.ua/en

I wish him good luck and a speedy recovery.

[thejcb]

Walk away, have nothing to do with it !

[sanuk711]

Please name--same the insurance company so we all know.....I know this doesn't help your friend , but it may stop a repeat.

[toolkeeper]

jcb, you must be related to my brother. He volunteered the opinion that a .22 cal bullet to the head of my cat would be much cheaper than to take him to the Vet for treatment.

[nithisa78]

http://www.gofundme.com/?pc=em_dr_1

This has worked for colleagues of mine.

Best of luck.

[Monkeyrobot]

Notify the Russian embassy, good chance for them to run some decent PR

He is not Russian different country.

[Monkeyrobot]

Raj, I understand you are doing your best in assisting the couple in every possible way, Good to see people like you trying to do something good.

There is an Ukrainian embassy in BKK, please do notify or ask the Gf to speak to them and ask for support.

as a diplomat its part of their duty to look after their citizens welfare here and provide support.

I just hope things works out and they get out of the trouble with out much hassle

.

I second that good post.

[arjunadawn]

You used the word comminuted; can the leg be saved outside of high tech heroic efforts? Would a commercial airline take him? I would answer those two questions and then move him to a government teaching hospital attached to a medical school. The Embassy should be involved sooner than later. His family should be notified and the expectation set that some money will have to be sent.

The leg will be saved. The loss of leg is not a danger. He has fine distal nerve and circulation. It is comminuted in femur. Looks like an awful mix of spiral and crush fracture. Quite a mess. No, he is not able to travel and least of all due to leg, though no airline would take him for that alone; the risk of emboli would be too great. But he has crush injuries of the face and mandible pushed in, etc. He can breathe on his own but he is at risk for airway problem. This would be the greatest concern, perhaps, when taking a patient to altitude.

I actually have a modest background in medicine, but it is worthless in this instance except to observe and aid if possible. I took a previous posters advice and sent a letter to the embassy just now. Yes, I understand the family has been notified but I have no idea whether this will be of use or not. Someone did make a down payment toward the surgery today but it is only enough for them to order the surgical materials. They will need to pay the balance of anticipated costs by the 16th.

Thank you to all who took the time to think about this.

[arjunadawn]

Walk away, have nothing to do with it !

This is a curious response. Enough so it caught my interest. I regret I am unable to see the world as you do (actually, I am grateful I do not).

We do not help others because it is an investment in "what comes around goes around." We help others because it needs to be done. I dont want to help because of religion or other. I want to help him because we said hello every day. Does there really need to be a greater reason than this?

But walk away? I am no saint. I could walk away from someone like you; Yes, I could.

[arjunadawn]

Please name--same the insurance company so we all know.....I know this doesn't help your friend , but it may stop a repeat.

The document I was shown today said Vienna Insurance.

[arjunadawn]

http://www.gofundme.com/?pc=em_dr_1

This has worked for colleagues of mine.

Best of luck.

I set up a GoFundMe site today. I am fairly certain I cannot post it in the forum though. But yes, I did set up a fund to PlsHelp- Ukrainian Man Hospitalized. Thank you for the idea. Sadly, I have no social media to link it to.

[louse1953]

"They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?"

Thats not a given.. They usually dump these deadbeat cases on a Thai government hospital.. And from there his options and chances of decent treatment and good outcomes drastically reduce.

BS.Government hospitals have very good treatment but you still gotta pay.

[arjunadawn]

"They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?"

Thats not a given.. They usually dump these deadbeat cases on a Thai government hospital.. And from there his options and chances of decent treatment and good outcomes drastically reduce.

BS.Government hospitals have very good treatment but you still gotta pay.

Actually, I dont know if this was livinLOS or my post in quotations; I think I wrote that. I am apparently mistaken too. You are both correct. They made it clear to me today that unless he pays they will not do even the stabilization surgery. I kinda understand at one level, and sort dont on another level. I am not a wishy washy feel gooder though I want to help this guy. I am a bit of a jackass and think having free health care for all would be great, but in fantasy. Economics just does not work that way. So, I get it. I was just surprised to hear them say it so clearly.

[mango66]

Notify the Russian embassy!! is that some kind of joke?

The man is Ukranion not Russian, you think russia would help him? no way.

It is a serious reminder to people normal travel insurance will not cover using motorbikes.

he is ukrainian,

Russia will send him a rocket for quick solution !!

Dont you read or hear news in Thailand whats going on between Russia and ukrain ?

or you geo level is Bush Texas ??

[Travelman868]

"They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?"

Thats not a given.. They usually dump these deadbeat cases on a Thai government hospital.. And from there his options and chances of decent treatment and good outcomes drastically reduce.

I think your being unfair to Thai National Hospitals. I've used a couple and been to others with friends and the treatment is similar to private.

Yes, it's not flash and unless you pay 7 / 800 baht a day for private room it can be crowded. As these hospitals do the whole job ( there are no GP's surgeries)

it can take a little while to be treated but at 30 baht it's a bargain.

As for the Ukrainian boy, he must have treatment soon. The article does not say what the hospital have done to stabilize his leg. I think he needs to get off

Samui and find one of the small village hospitals they may find it in their hearts to pin the break.

[Sheryl]

I agree move to Nathon Government hospital -much cheaper & good reputation several of my Farang friends have used it & spoke highly of it.

Koh Samui Hospital is also a government hospital, but a tier higher than Nathon. Given the complexity of his injuries he will need specialized ortho surgery which would be beyond what Nathon can handle.

In fact I am surprised Koh Samui did not have to refer him to the mainland. Especially given the maxilo-facial injuries.

[arjunadawn]

I agree move to Nathon Government hospital -much cheaper & good reputation several of my Farang friends have used it & spoke highly of it.

Koh Samui Hospital is also a government hospital, but a tier higher than Nathon. Given the complexity of his injuries he will need specialized ortho surgery which would be beyond what Nathon can handle.

In fact I am surprised Koh Samui did not have to refer him to the mainland. Especially given the maxilo-facial injuries.

Think I'm confused bout hospital. It's the nathon gov hospital up the street from immigration, on the sea. The ortho doc I was fortunate enough to speak seems smart and competent. Yet... I want to be delicate... I was less enthused by the nursing.

Ppl like me can be very observant because of med background, but biased! I still believe this hospital is the best place for him now but it's apparent one needs caring support from family and friends for washing, turning, questioning, aiding. Just too many patients per nurse staff, I thought. He can't be moved though. Not by air unless med ambulance.

Actually one of ThaiVisa's Sponsors has offered to link the GoFundMe site I set up with her personal Facebook. Wow! How great. She actually runs a different hospital on Samui. That's compassion. That's kindness.

[mick01827]

"They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?"

Thats not a given.. They usually dump these deadbeat cases on a Thai government hospital.. And from there his options and chances of decent treatment and good outcomes drastically reduce.

unfortunately 100% right at samui hospital, I've known people being asked to leave because they didn't have the right insurance or money to pay for the treatment

[RedQualia]

FWIW, I've seen the basic insurance that the government provides when you license a motorcycle actually pay for medical after an accident, for a Thai driver who had no driver's license of any kind. All licensed vehicles come with such insurance as a part of the licensing process. Assuming the bike was actually licensed and legal, then, it might be a good idea for the girlfriend to explain the matter to the police in the area where the accident happened, and inquire as to whether the police could be of any help at all in pursuading the insurance company to pay. She should probably take a reasonable amount of money with her in case it might be needed to expedite any additional work required on the police report. Assuming she is Thai (I can't remember), I am sure she will know how to comport herself, and etc. in conversations with said police.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the police would either help, or that their help would produce the desired outcome. But "the system here" is the system here. It can often be pursauded to function as desired/required.

And please -- let's not use this post as a way to change the subject to anything political. It's intended as helpful, and nothing more than that.

An aside: it might be best for him to pursue treatment in Thailand rather than repatriation to his home country. I have no idea of the quality of healthcare in the Ukraine, nor its cost. But healthcare here is generally both good and more affordable than elsewhere. I would very much prefer to be cared for here rather than in my home country.

[khunPer]

I agree move to Nathon Government hospital -much cheaper & good reputation several of my Farang friends have used it & spoke highly of it.

Koh Samui Hospital is also a government hospital, but a tier higher than Nathon. Given the complexity of his injuries he will need specialized ortho surgery which would be beyond what Nathon can handle.

In fact I am surprised Koh Samui did not have to refer him to the mainland. Especially given the maxilo-facial injuries.

Seem like some confusion here.

To my knowledge there is only 1 government hospital at Koh Samui (I’m resident here) and that is “Samui Government Hospital” in Nathon – called “Koh Samui Hospital” at their own Thai webpage.

Thai Visa page “Koh Samui Hospitals” says the same, one government hospital only: http://samui.thaivisa.com/koh-samui-hospitals/#.VNuQM_mG_To

The other “Koh Samui” hospital can be “Samui International Hospital” at Chaweng Beach Road (north), and that is a private hospital.

[loppylugs1]

Anything medical you are going to get hit hard by medical charges in Thailand. Google a couple of hospitals in Malaysia ,you will only be a couple of hours away,Skype them and get a few quotes. Always been well under half price from Thai quotes.

Alor Star just over the border,better spoken English obviously Penang just under an hour away once over the border

[arjunadawn]

FWIW, I've seen the basic insurance that the government provides when you license a motorcycle actually pay for medical after an accident, for a Thai driver who had no driver's license of any kind. All licensed vehicles come with such insurance as a part of the licensing process. Assuming the bike was actually licensed and legal, then, it might be a good idea for the girlfriend to explain the matter to the police in the area where the accident happened, and inquire as to whether the police could be of any help at all in pursuading the insurance company to pay. She should probably take a reasonable amount of money with her in case it might be needed to expedite any additional work required on the police report. Assuming she is Thai (I can't remember), I am sure she will know how to comport herself, and etc. in conversations with said police.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the police would either help, or that their help would produce the desired outcome. But "the system here" is the system here. It can often be pursauded to function as desired/required.

And please -- let's not use this post as a way to change the subject to anything political. It's intended as helpful, and nothing more than that.

An aside: it might be best for him to pursue treatment in Thailand rather than repatriation to his home country. I have no idea of the quality of healthcare in the Ukraine, nor its cost. But healthcare here is generally both good and more affordable than elsewhere. I would very much prefer to be cared for here rather than in my home country.

A peculiar thing happened yesterday amidst the paper signing, etc. A woman was trying to get his signature. When I asked why, since it was not for surgery, my thai friend asked then said it was for insurance. Bought I thought... yea he said, and inquired more. Apparently, it was for the hospital to seek some reimbursement from the motorbike insurance. But why... I did not understand. Off to find out more today. Thanks for this post before I leaave.

[LivinLOS]

This is almost always result is some part of the claim being paid, unless some serious fraud took place.

When policies clear state either 'no motorcycle accident cover' or 'only coverage if the rider has a suitable legal license' why would they pay one penny ??

Many low end travel policies have this, you cant really expect them to insure unlicensed riders.

[LivinLOS]

FWIW, I've seen the basic insurance that the government provides when you license a motorcycle actually pay for medical after an accident, for a Thai driver who had no driver's license of any kind. All licensed vehicles come with such insurance as a part of the licensing process. Assuming the bike was actually licensed and legal, then, it might be a good idea for the girlfriend to explain the matter to the police in the area where the accident happened, and inquire as to whether the police could be of any help at all in pursuading the insurance company to pay. She should probably take a reasonable amount of money with her in case it might be needed to expedite any additional work required on the police report. Assuming she is Thai (I can't remember), I am sure she will know how to comport herself, and etc. in conversations with said police.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the police would either help, or that their help would produce the desired outcome. But "the system here" is the system here. It can often be pursauded to function as desired/required.

And please -- let's not use this post as a way to change the subject to anything political. It's intended as helpful, and nothing more than that.

An aside: it might be best for him to pursue treatment in Thailand rather than repatriation to his home country. I have no idea of the quality of healthcare in the Ukraine, nor its cost. But healthcare here is generally both good and more affordable than elsewhere. I would very much prefer to be cared for here rather than in my home country.

A peculiar thing happened yesterday amidst the paper signing, etc. A woman was trying to get his signature. When I asked why, since it was not for surgery, my thai friend asked then said it was for insurance. Bought I thought... yea he said, and inquired more. Apparently, it was for the hospital to seek some reimbursement from the motorbike insurance. But why... I did not understand. Off to find out more today. Thanks for this post before I leaave.

The legal minimum government insurance, the stuff you buy for a few 100b when you get your tax sticker.. Pays 30k in the event of injury.. This was raised last year from 15k..

Cars pay 60k up from 30 before.

Hospital will process it all with police report.

[RedQualia]

FWIW, I've seen the basic insurance that the government provides when you license a motorcycle actually pay for medical after an accident, for a Thai driver who had no driver's license of any kind. All licensed vehicles come with such insurance as a part of the licensing process. Assuming the bike was actually licensed and legal, then, it might be a good idea for the girlfriend to explain the matter to the police in the area where the accident happened, and inquire as to whether the police could be of any help at all in pursuading the insurance company to pay. She should probably take a reasonable amount of money with her in case it might be needed to expedite any additional work required on the police report. Assuming she is Thai (I can't remember), I am sure she will know how to comport herself, and etc. in conversations with said police.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the police would either help, or that their help would produce the desired outcome. But "the system here" is the system here. It can often be pursauded to function as desired/required.

And please -- let's not use this post as a way to change the subject to anything political. It's intended as helpful, and nothing more than that.

An aside: it might be best for him to pursue treatment in Thailand rather than repatriation to his home country. I have no idea of the quality of healthcare in the Ukraine, nor its cost. But healthcare here is generally both good and more affordable than elsewhere. I would very much prefer to be cared for here rather than in my home country.

A peculiar thing happened yesterday amidst the paper signing, etc. A woman was trying to get his signature. When I asked why, since it was not for surgery, my thai friend asked then said it was for insurance. Bought I thought... yea he said, and inquired more. Apparently, it was for the hospital to seek some reimbursement from the motorbike insurance. But why... I did not understand. Off to find out more today. Thanks for this post before I leaave.

With regard to whether Thai healthcare and insurance, etc., are any good or worth using -- I've seen Thai docs and hospitals do a very great deal to rebuild extremely poor people after accidents. Facial reconstruction, etc (because so few here wears helmets). I can't say that the people in question looked exactly the same after, but further healing does occur over time, and too, one gets used to seeing their faces in the new way over time as well. And a few years down the road, all is well and accidents forgotten. So I pretty much trust, and even admire, Thai healthcare. Would this also be good for your Ukrainian friend? If he's also relatively poor and doesn't want to face huge hospital/doctor bills, I'm thinking yes, absolutely.

I've read here on ThaiVisa that there is a way for foreigners to enroll for medical coverage in the Thai healthcare system (the one that all Thais get for 30 Baht per visit). It's not quite completely cheap, but it's also quite inexpensive, all things considered. I don't know if such coverage would extend to pre-existing problems, but I'm thinking there's a good chance that it would. This, too, would be a good thing for the man's gf to discuss with the (Thai) hospital. If he could pay 30K Baht for a year's coverage, and if then, the Thai healthcare system would put him back together in the same way they do for locals (worth hundreds of thousands of Baht?), might not be a bad way to go. IMO, the best health insurance poor folk can have is one that does a reasonably good job of putting someone back together after an accident, and that doesn't saddle them with years of debt in the process.

You might be able to find more info on this by searching ThaiVisa. But I'm seeing nothing to lose by talking to the hospital about it.

[Issangeorge]

Foreigners from Western Countries can no longer register for any Thai Government medical plan. I am surprised the care at the Samui hospital is so expensive. Two years ago, I had a motorcycle accident in my home province of Kalasin, 3 operations later and 8 days in the hospital, my bill was just around ฿45,000. At that time the insurance I had on my bike covered ฿15,000 I see from a previous post that is now ฿30,000. By the way I thought I had first class insurance, so when I insured my bike last year I asked about the accident insurance and was told I could not upgrade it, but if my bike had an accident or was stolen it would be covered.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Issangeorge

[Sheryl]

FWIW, I've seen the basic insurance that the government provides when you license a motorcycle actually pay for medical after an accident, for a Thai driver who had no driver's license of any kind. All licensed vehicles come with such insurance as a part of the licensing process. Assuming the bike was actually licensed and legal, then, it might be a good idea for the girlfriend to explain the matter to the police in the area where the accident happened, and inquire as to whether the police could be of any help at all in pursuading the insurance company to pay. She should probably take a reasonable amount of money with her in case it might be needed to expedite any additional work required on the police report. Assuming she is Thai (I can't remember), I am sure she will know how to comport herself, and etc. in conversations with said police.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the police would either help, or that their help would produce the desired outcome. But "the system here" is the system here. It can often be pursauded to function as desired/required.

And please -- let's not use this post as a way to change the subject to anything political. It's intended as helpful, and nothing more than that.

An aside: it might be best for him to pursue treatment in Thailand rather than repatriation to his home country. I have no idea of the quality of healthcare in the Ukraine, nor its cost. But healthcare here is generally both good and more affordable than elsewhere. I would very much prefer to be cared for here rather than in my home country.

A peculiar thing happened yesterday amidst the paper signing, etc. A woman was trying to get his signature. When I asked why, since it was not for surgery, my thai friend asked then said it was for insurance. Bought I thought... yea he said, and inquired more. Apparently, it was for the hospital to seek some reimbursement from the motorbike insurance. But why... I did not understand. Off to find out more today. Thanks for this post before I leaave.

The legal minimum government insurance, the stuff you buy for a few 100b when you get your tax sticker.. Pays 30k in the event of injury.. This was raised last year from 15k..

Cars pay 60k up from 30 before.

Hospital will process it all with police report.

Yes, this pertains to the vehicle insurance as opposed to his health insurance, But it will at elast reduce what he owes a little.

[Sheryl]

I agree move to Nathon Government hospital -much cheaper & good reputation several of my Farang friends have used it & spoke highly of it.

Koh Samui Hospital is also a government hospital, but a tier higher than Nathon. Given the complexity of his injuries he will need specialized ortho surgery which would be beyond what Nathon can handle.

In fact I am surprised Koh Samui did not have to refer him to the mainland. Especially given the maxilo-facial injuries.

Seem like some confusion here.

To my knowledge there is only 1 government hospital at Koh Samui (I’m resident here) and that is “Samui Government Hospital” in Nathon – called “Koh Samui Hospital” at their own Thai webpage.

Thai Visa page “Koh Samui Hospitals” says the same, one government hospital only: http://samui.thaivisa.com/koh-samui-hospitals/#.VNuQM_mG_To

The other “Koh Samui” hospital can be “Samui International Hospital” at Chaweng Beach Road (north), and that is a private hospital.

Looks like what has happened is that Nathon Hospital, which used to be a Communtiy Hospital, has now been upgraded to a full General Hospital but indeed, same place.

[arjunadawn]

To the Moderator and all who helped, thank you. I think the basic answers to my questions were provided. Again; thank you.

[konying]

This is almost always result is some part of the claim being paid, unless some serious fraud took place.

When policies clear state either 'no motorcycle accident cover' or 'only coverage if the rider has a suitable legal license' why would they pay one penny ??

Many low end travel policies have this, you cant really expect them to insure unlicensed riders.

To avoid lengthy investigation by Ombudsman and the headache.

We do not know what exactly the policy says so no reason to assume what it may or may not include and most certainly worth a try