US envoy 'unaware' of ex-PM's asylum report

[h90]

I'm sure the USA is pleased so many Thais and foreigners think of the USA first when the discussoin centers on political asylum. It certainly has a well-known and long track record for such human rights.

But there are many other nations throughout the world that honor political asylum, both democractic and "neo-democratic" (ie., kingdoms and oligarchies) countries. Switzerland, Sweden, and Canada are also among the best known for asylum seekers. The right of asylum is enshrined in the UN Convention and in the EU Charter. However, as Julian Assange can attest, getting asylum at an embassy may not be the best solution. And as John Snowden might attest, seeking asylum at a foreign nation's immigration gate is no guarantee to entry.

The best thing for a developing democracy in Thailand is for Yingluck to remain in the country. If people think Thaksin has been a political thorn in the side of the elitist, Yingluck will become a martyr for democracy and crusader against usurpers of Thai sovereignty. Her every word and action will be followed by the public. She will become an Aung San Suu Kyi protegee. The Junta can only hope she leaves the country permanently.

Comparing Yingluk with Aung Sang Suu Kyi is totally outrageous, sort of like comparing Richard Clayderman to Mozart.

Aung Sang Suu Kyi who advocated for sanctions knowing that it will cost the lifes of thousands of children in hospitals.....But her desire for power was more important. Also considering that her father was just the other fraction in the power struggle inside the army. The only difference I see here is tha Aung Sang Suu Kyi is not stupid.

[h90]

Just like the Thai people and many of TV commentators, the US seems to have forgotten (deliberately?) what this is all about. YT took all the plaudits when she was PM for the many good things (she alleged) her government did for the people of Thailand. Ipso facto, she should take responsibility for the corruption perpetrated under her watch. For anyone to say that the allegations are merely a Junta imposed excuse for retaliation obviously has forgotten about the thousands of tons of rice that went missing under her watch. Take a deep breath people.

There's a distinction that you and many others miss. A leader is responsible for actions and programmes that they design, implement, or sign off they sign off on. But you can't hold the leader responsible for poor implementation (unless they were aware of it and did nothing) or criminal activity of others 'on their watch' (again, unless they were aware of it).

Obama can be held responsible if Obamacare ends up costing people more money and this is something that could have been anticipated. He cannot be held responsible if a website doesn't work when it goes live (he's not a webmaster) or if some insurance companies or lower level bureaucrats scam the system.

YL can be held responsible for poor judgement in the design of the rice pledging scheme - she signed off on it, even if it was not her bright idea. But unless she was aware of lower-level people pilfering rice stores or didn't put in reasonable safeguards against it, she cannot be blamed for that. Leaders have a thousand things to do, and they have to empower and rely on others to take care of the details and implementation. That's where things often break down...

There are facts that you and many others miss.. possible corruption in the system was brought to her attention many times other the course of the scheme. The possibility of the rice being spoiled while in storage was graphical brought to Parliaments attention when a Democrat MP produced a bag of rotten rice and pictures from numerous storage facilities. What did Yingluck's administration do? Try and prosecute the MP for theft of the bag!

If Yingluck can read English, which we are reliable informed she can. Then she would have known all this, even if her government colleagues hadn't said a word.. we knew!

Well at ASTV and Blue Sky TV they showed warehouses complete rotten down with dead animals, mold, etc etc. And they told which warehouses these are. So jumping into the car helicopter and having a look between two shopping trips would have been enough to proof it.

[casualbiker]

If she wanted political asylum, her high level advisors could arrange it through the US Embassy. She might qualify considering that she is pursued by a junta using martial law which the US considers illegal.

All she'd have to do is to walk into the embassy, but how she'd get out of there and travel I don't know.

No way would she qualify.

As the envoy has stated:

Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics.

She qualifies under the Geneva Convention.

"a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion"

All countries which are a party to the Geneva Conventions are legally bound to accept her if she manages to get there.

Yingluck and "political opinion " cannot be used in the same sentence surely!

[Gunna]

Let her go to Dubai. End the divisions.

And let Thailand be run by 2 convicted criminals, I don't think so.

[kieran2698]

If she wanted political asylum, her high level advisors could arrange it through the US Embassy. She might qualify considering that she is pursued by a junta using martial law which the US considers illegal.

All she'd have to do is to walk into the embassy, but how she'd get out of there and travel I don't know.

No way would she qualify.

As the envoy has stated:

Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics.

She qualifies under the Geneva Convention.

"a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion"

All countries which are a party to the Geneva Conventions are legally bound to accept her if she manages to get there.

There is a major difference between persecution and prosecution, just as there is between political opinion and theft.

There is also a difference between theft and neglect, but it is only you who is confused.

[billd766]

Probably just the Junta propaganda machine making statements on behalf of others as usual.

More likely her lawyers and the Thaksin propoganda machine trying to stir up trouble.

[tonytigerbkk]

She qualifies under the Geneva Convention.

"a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion"

All countries which are a party to the Geneva Conventions are legally bound to accept her if she manages to get there.

There is a major difference between persecution and prosecution, just as there is between political opinion and theft.

There is also a difference between theft and neglect, but it is only you who is confused.

Yes there is a diference between theft and neglect but that does not mean that I am confused, YL is guilty of both.

[Camelot]

I don't believe Yingluck will ever:

* Spend a day in prison,

* Has any desire to continue her career as a designated Thaksin clone in politics,

* Has any interest in seeking political asylum in the US. Chiang Mai is her home and where her friends and fan club are based. She adores the life of a billionaire socialite. She wouldn't get the same attention as an asylum seeker in the US, Montenegro or in the desert.

I don't think wearing a burka in Dubai holds any interest for her.

Naturally I would be surprised, but happy, to be proved wrong.

[car720]

Let her go to Dubai. End the divisions.

Right, like Takky running away to Dubai ended his influence and meddling back here in Thailand. Keep her here and make her accountable for the laws she broke. Set an example for all future politicians so we can try and put a dent in corruption and begin to change the culture of these criminals doing what they want because they think they are untouchable.

But why would you want to do that?

Then Thailand would become just like home and none of us live at home because home stinks.

We love to live in Thailand because it is what it is, no matter how much we complain.

[rubl]

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

Now I'm really wondering. I was told by many here that the USA snubbed the Thai government, clearly took sides, denounced a junta, etc., etc.

[gchurch259]

If she wanted political asylum, her high level advisors could arrange it through the US Embassy. She might qualify considering that she is pursued by a junta using martial law which the US considers illegal.

All she'd have to do is to walk into the embassy, but how she'd get out of there and travel I don't know.

With the power and money that family has it would be a simple matter to get out of Thailand, private airplane, Executive Jet, get in a puddle jumper, cross over to Cambodia have lunch with Big Brother, get a Gulf Stream IV and off to wherever. For Thailand simple solution.

[NeilSA1]

She qualifies under the Geneva Convention.

"a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion"

All countries which are a party to the Geneva Conventions are legally bound to accept her if she manages to get there.

There is a major difference between persecution and prosecution, just as there is between political opinion and theft.

There is also a difference between theft and neglect, but it is only you who is confused.

indeed, yet the net financial result is the same.

[gchurch259]

I keep reading all this about the USA wants Thailand to return to Democracy. First; USA is a Republic and the Congress (Senate/House) even the President are not even elected in a Democratic System, just like Thailand the majority of the voters are those on the take and pay little or no taxes, they control who gets elected. A lot of them not only do not pay taxes, but in the US, are illegal immigrants.

Secondly; USA and a lot of other countries do not know, understand or really even care how corrupt this place had become. There are a lot of good people here who also do not fully understand either.

General/PM keep flushing the device until the water is clean !!

[rijb]

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

Now I'm really wondering. I was told by many here that the USA snubbed the Thai government, clearly took sides, denounced a junta, etc., etc.

They're trying to follow the junta's example of not taking sides.

[Ricardo]

Let her go to Dubai. End the divisions.

And let Thailand be run by 2 convicted criminals, I don't think so.

What has Yingluck been convicted of, so far ?

[elgordo38]

Maybe we should build a race of A.I. beings like the Cylons from the popular TV/movie Battlestar Galactica to rule us. Our mortal politicos present and past have made a real mess of things thus the sad state of the world today. Yingluck is no better or worse than what we have to choose from today to rule us but then the selection pool is really tainted and small. If you have seem the series you know that the Cylons eventually evolved to the point where they wanted to erradicate humans. Maybe we should turn the planet over to someone else as we have royally screwed (<deleted>) it up destroying the wildlife, climate, resources and our lesser appreciated brothers and sisters who were not born with the so called genius gene to take advantage of their fellow man. Yes there is the self made men in the minority and then there are the rest of us the chaff of the world who wander around looking for a job to feed and cloth ourselves with which mankind has done since appearing on the planet. The few of these so called geniuses want to rule the majority of us the average Joe. With the speed that robotics is progressing we could indeed someday produce our own Cylons. Terminator here we come.

[geriatrickid]

Let her go to Dubai. End the divisions.

And let Thailand be run by 2 convicted criminals, I don't think so.

What has Yingluck been convicted of, so far ?

Nothing.

Apparently, being a decent person and trying to administer a country beset by feuding factions and petty hatreds is a crime. Being a woman didn't help matters.

[Fat Haggis]

I'm sure the USA is pleased so many Thais and foreigners think of the USA first when the discussoin centers on political asylum. It certainly has a well-known and long track record for such human rights.

But there are many other nations throughout the world that honor political asylum, both democractic and "neo-democratic" (ie., kingdoms and oligarchies) countries. Switzerland, Sweden, and Canada are also among the best known for asylum seekers. The right of asylum is enshrined in the UN Convention and in the EU Charter. However, as Julian Assange can attest, getting asylum at an embassy may not be the best solution. And as John Snowden might attest, seeking asylum at a foreign nation's immigration gate is no guarantee to entry.

The best thing for a developing democracy in Thailand is for Yingluck to remain in the country. If people think Thaksin has been a political thorn in the side of the elitist, Yingluck will become a martyr for democracy and crusader against usurpers of Thai sovereignty. Her every word and action will be followed by the public. She will become an Aung San Suu Kyi protegee. The Junta can only hope she leaves the country permanently.

Comparing Yingluk with Aung Sang Suu Kyi is totally outrageous, sort of like comparing Richard Clayderman to Mozart.

As opposed to comparing Prayuth to former Nobel Peace prize winners perhaps?

[rijb]

Let her go to Dubai. End the divisions.

And let Thailand be run by 2 convicted criminals, I don't think so.

What has Yingluck been convicted of, so far ?

The TVF misogynists have convicted her of being a woman.

The TVF pro-elites / pro-juntas have convicted her of being a red.

There will be a stoning at the next TVF happy hour.

[trogers]

Aung San Suu Kyi refused to leave her country. Yingluck is looking for ways to bolt.

The only similarity between them is being female.

[kieran2698]

I keep reading all this about the USA wants Thailand to return to Democracy. First; USA is a Republic and the Congress (Senate/House) even the President are not even elected in a Democratic System, just like Thailand the majority of the voters are those on the take and pay little or no taxes, they control who gets elected. A lot of them not only do not pay taxes, but in the US, are illegal immigrants.

Secondly; USA and a lot of other countries do not know, understand or really even care how corrupt this place had become. There are a lot of good people here who also do not fully understand either.

General/PM keep flushing the device until the water is clean !!

Isn't it strange how the old corrupt rice scheme of the Democrat Party was delayed from trial for so long and then acquitted without explanation, yet Yingluck's very similar scheme, is passing through the courts with so little hindrance and massive press coverage?

If you really think the General is out to rid Thailand of corruption and not just out to rid Thailand of the the Red Shirts, then you really need to sharpen up.

[dunks]

Lets not forget the lives that were lost due to the financial hardship that she and Her brother orchestrated!!

As for Political asylum. She would need to have;

"A well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion"

She is not being persecuted for her political opinion, unless CORRUPTION is now classified as a political opinion!!

Haha

She is being denied permission to travel abroad until she has faced the charges against her in a court of law.

Not unreasonable considering her family history of flight and total reluctance to face the music for their crimes!!

[Ricardo]

And let Thailand be run by 2 convicted criminals, I don't think so.

What has Yingluck been convicted of, so far ?

The TVF misogynists have convicted her of being a woman.

The TVF pro-elites / pro-juntas have convicted her of being a red.

There will be a stoning at the next TVF happy hour.

Stoning is surely a Middle-Eastern, rather than Asia, traditional-punishment ?

I agree that her major achievement may well be, simply being the first Thai woman, to have become PM.

That she was weak or a puppet or ill-advised from afar, which is more a matter-of-opinion, well that's been addressed by the impeachment.

But she hasn't yet been convicted of doing anything criminal, she only stands accused, the point I wished to make to Gunna. There might well be evidence, she may be convicted over the next several months, who knows how the courts will view it ? It's still up-in-the-air.

Whether or not she's a Red, that's an interesting one, are they the driving philosophy of TRT/PPP/PTP (I would think not), or are they merely useful-tools. Does the local leader of the party need to follow the more-extreme views of some of her supporters anyway ?

No wonder the poor well-meaning US emissary might be unaware or confused about things !

[rubl]

The US has a long history of housing outlaw foreign political leaders. The Shah, Marcos, they can now add Yingluck to the list. So much for being an advocate of international human rights.

What? The Shah of Iran died in exile in Egypt. He had a brief stay in a hospital to treat his gallstones, but was blocked from remaining in the USA. He was only allowed in for emergency medical treatment. In the case of Marcos, he was allowed to go to Hawaii for medical treatment as part of a deal to end his rule. The US attempted to have him removed, but his medical condition allowed Marcos to contest that removal. He died 3 years after that, having been virtually bedridden during that period. . It was a good thing he went to Hawaii because it allowed the class action case to be filed against him. In 1995, the plaintiffs won. One can hardly call it "housing" an outlaw. The USA didn't want him.

And now if you want to be factually correct, the USA is the last place a despot wants to go. In case you didn't know, the USA is prime legal territory for filing class actions and punitive damage litigation. This is the last thing a despot wants. The reality is that the despots typically go to Europe if they can get in. Yasser Arafat squirrelled away his fortune in France and Switzerland. Multiple African dictators have gone the same route. Haiti's Duvalier went to France. Idi Amin lived out his life in luxury in Saudi Arabia. Rwandan and Bosnian genocide murderers sought refugee status in Canada and the Netherlands. No one wants to go to the USA because of a concept called justice that often rears its head.

Just a minor correction if I may. As far as I know no known Rwandan or Bosnian genocide accused has sought refugee status in the Netherlands. Actually lots of them are 'invited' to come to the Netherlands as prime suspects and/or accused to be brought before the ICC in the Haugue.

[rubl]

I keep reading all this about the USA wants Thailand to return to Democracy. First; USA is a Republic and the Congress (Senate/House) even the President are not even elected in a Democratic System, just like Thailand the majority of the voters are those on the take and pay little or no taxes, they control who gets elected. A lot of them not only do not pay taxes, but in the US, are illegal immigrants.

Secondly; USA and a lot of other countries do not know, understand or really even care how corrupt this place had become. There are a lot of good people here who also do not fully understand either.

General/PM keep flushing the device until the water is clean !!

Isn't it strange how the old corrupt rice scheme of the Democrat Party was delayed from trial for so long and then acquitted without explanation, yet Yingluck's very similar scheme, is passing through the courts with so little hindrance and massive press coverage?

If you really think the General is out to rid Thailand of corruption and not just out to rid Thailand of the the Red Shirts, then you really need to sharpen up.

Isn't it strange that all kinds of diversions are being constructed ? How a sudsidy with a minimum price guarantee all farmers condemned at too low even if paid to them directly, is being compared with a 'self-financing' scheme which cost the State and it's tax payers 700,000,000,000 Baht after barely 2-1/2 years ?

Anyway, the highest level USA official currently in the Embassy said

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

[sweatalot]

Probably just the Junta propaganda machine making statements on behalf of others as usual.

Btw

you are aware of the giant shin propaganda machine which has been working high power for years, and with people like Robert Amsterdam?

[kieran2698]

I keep reading all this about the USA wants Thailand to return to Democracy. First; USA is a Republic and the Congress (Senate/House) even the President are not even elected in a Democratic System, just like Thailand the majority of the voters are those on the take and pay little or no taxes, they control who gets elected. A lot of them not only do not pay taxes, but in the US, are illegal immigrants.

Secondly; USA and a lot of other countries do not know, understand or really even care how corrupt this place had become. There are a lot of good people here who also do not fully understand either.

General/PM keep flushing the device until the water is clean !!

Isn't it strange how the old corrupt rice scheme of the Democrat Party was delayed from trial for so long and then acquitted without explanation, yet Yingluck's very similar scheme, is passing through the courts with so little hindrance and massive press coverage?

If you really think the General is out to rid Thailand of corruption and not just out to rid Thailand of the the Red Shirts, then you really need to sharpen up.

Isn't it strange that all kinds of diversions are being constructed ? How a sudsidy with a minimum price guarantee all farmers condemned at too low even if paid to them directly, is being compared with a 'self-financing' scheme which cost the State and it's tax payers 700,000,000,000 Baht after barely 2-1/2 years ?

Anyway, the highest level USA official currently in the Embassy said

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

Drawing attention to the fact that all the "purging" is being done to from one party while the others get acquitted without explanation was not supposed to be a diversion.

Not sure why you posted that quote at the end?!?!

[rubl]

Isn't it strange that all kinds of diversions are being constructed ? How a sudsidy with a minimum price guarantee all farmers condemned at too low even if paid to them directly, is being compared with a 'self-financing' scheme which cost the State and it's tax payers 700,000,000,000 Baht after barely 2-1/2 years ?

Anyway, the highest level USA official currently in the Embassy said

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

Drawing attention to the fact that all the "purging" is being done to from one party while the others get acquitted without explanation was not supposed to be a diversion.

Not sure why you posted that quote at the end?!?!

Why the quote?

Terribly sorry and all that. Totally unfair to quote from the topic here. What was I thinking

[kieran2698]

Isn't it strange that all kinds of diversions are being constructed ? How a sudsidy with a minimum price guarantee all farmers condemned at too low even if paid to them directly, is being compared with a 'self-financing' scheme which cost the State and it's tax payers 700,000,000,000 Baht after barely 2-1/2 years ?

Anyway, the highest level USA official currently in the Embassy said

"Murphy also reiterated that the United States does not take sides in Thai politics. "As a friend, we simply want Thailand to succeed. Thailand's success and return to democracy is success for Southeast Asia and a success for global challenges. We are not taking sides at all," he said."

Drawing attention to the fact that all the "purging" is being done to from one party while the others get acquitted without explanation was not supposed to be a diversion.

Not sure why you posted that quote at the end?!?!

Why the quote?

Terribly sorry and all that. Totally unfair to quote from the topic here. What was I thinking

Shame it didn't fit in with OUR conversation. Never mind.

[draftvader]

Trolling comment on moderation removed