US-Thai relations: A question of democracy versus obscurity?

[webfact]

US-Thai relations: A question of democracy versus obscurity?
Titipol Phakdeewanich
Special to The Nation

Thailand cannot afford to indulge in go-it-alone nationalism at a time when our status as a regional hub is under threat

BANGKOK: -- Amid the fallout from the increasingly vociferous anti-American sentiment being expressed in Thailand, one question comes to the fore: Is the historically close Thai-US relationship truly in jeopardy?

Those who listened carefully to the fairly standard remarks on the need for democratic progress delivered recently by Daniel Russel, US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, might well ask what all the fuss is about. Nevertheless, the way in which this story plays out may tell us whether the 182-year Thai-US relationship is under threat.

W Patrick Murphy, the chargé d'affaires at the US Embassy, was invited to appear before the National Legislative Assembly yesterday, where he would likely have been asked to account for the recent statement made by Russel. But Murphy declined the invitation and the US State Department responded by saying it had no desire to further inflame the situation, but neither would it backtrack on its position regarding democracy.

The hollow and bombastic reaction among sections of the Thai public and media is predictable, though it is hardly meant for an international audience, beyond any US policymakers concerned enough to take notice. But, slowly and surely, it is sending out the message that Thailand may no longer be worth the trouble - especially when there are more pressing concerns within the region and further afield.

In other words, what if a broad range of interests begins to take more seriously, and at face value, the histrionic and irascible Thai assertions of unwelcome and unwarranted outside influence? What then for Thailand?

Continuance of the "glory days" of a Thailand at the hub of mainland Southeast Asia is no longer a given. Indeed, it is evident that as important outside actors go about the process of re-evaluating their efforts to engage with Asean, the trend is leading away from Thailand.

In remarks made during his visit to India last month, President Barack Obama said: "In this region, India can play a positive role in helping countries forge a better future, from Burma [Myanmar] to Sri Lanka, where today there's new hope for democracy."

With regard to Myanmar, the European Union lifted its trade sanctions back in April 2013, before sending its first ambassador five months later. In contrast, the EU delegation to Thailand has gradually scaled back its role and presence, downgrading its regional office for mainland Southeast Asia to a national office.

Meanwhile in neighbouring Laos, Japan is funding construction and development of the East-West Economic Corridor as part of the Greater Mekong Sub-region Programme (GMS). The economic corridor will open up regional economic and developmental opportunities and has already attracted a US$5.6-million investment made by Toyota Boshoku in the Savannakhet-Xeno Special Economic Zone in Laos.

Two years ago, the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) chose Laos as the base for its newly launched key regional development programme, the "SDC Mekong Region Strategy, 2013-17". Notably, Thailand is the only Mekong-basin country not included in the strategy. (As a medium-income country, it is no longer considered to be in particular need of foreign aid.)

At a time when our regional neighbours are recognising the necessity of building a range of international relationships, hostile attitudes in Thailand may convince outside actors to steer clear of the Kingdom. And if it continues, this tendency will exacerbate the sense of alienation from the West that Thais are already beginning to feel.

Amid this complex field of global influences, Thailand risks outmanoeuvring itself by fixating on a strategy of playing off the US' Asia pivot against greater engagement with China, in an attempt to maximise Thai political, economic and other strategic interests.

Two key recent examples relate to this concern. First is the launch this week of Thai-US Cobra Gold military exercises just days after the latest improved Thai-China military ties were announced by China's Defence Minister, General Chang Wanquan. Second is the emergence of the US' Lower Mekong Initiative as a rival to the China-backed GMS - the leading developmental programme for mainland Southeast Asia.

The interplay of influences that now govern international dynamics - whether political, economic, social or otherwise -necessarily involve both state and non-state actors. For instance, the decision-making of international investors is increasingly contingent on the prospects for democracy and human rights within developing nations.

This is worrying for Thailand, where some observers detect an ulterior motive in the indignant accusations of US "meddling" in Thai affairs. Does the advocating of a new go-it-alone Thailand, then, smack of a form of nationalist sentiment that can usefully distract from more profound and pressing home-grown problems?

The longstanding effort to find others to blame for all and sundry - including the seemingly intractable societal rift - is a strategy that risks running out of enemies. Forever scapegoating either the Shinawatra family, as unduly influential, or the rural poor, by stereotyping them as lacking any understanding of the country's problems, may wear thin with even the most radical. Where better to look then, than in the direction of the predominant foreign superpower with a tarnished reputation?

A more crucial question is whether Thais are sufficiently committed to making the necessary efforts to change an abiding sense of societal division and mistrust, and in this way, aid in the restoration of Thai democracy. This would necessitate a far more reasoned and conciliatory approach than we are now witnessing.

Thais who are able to identify with the very real and valid concerns of the rural poor in particular, must surely recognise a glaring absurdity. Namely, the directing of a similar blame-game strategy against the weakest and most marginalised Thais and, at the very same time, against the strongest world power, the US.

Democracy, in and of itself, is not something that the US has ownership over, but it is something that Thailand can finally choose to abandon, to its detriment. Along with that abandoning would likely go any hope of significant future progress for the Kingdom. Ultimately, Thailand's future prospects hinge on recognising the importance of a swift reorientation back towards democracy, and the acknowledgement that the US remains an enduring ally.

Titipol Phakdeewanich is a political scientist at the Faculty of Political Science, Ubon Ratchathani University.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/US-Thai-relations-A-question-of-democracy-versus-o-30253873.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-12

[EnzoRippo]

"Democracy, ... is something that Thailand can finally choose to abandon,"

Thailand does not have the opportunity to give its opinion.

Sentence is:

"Democracy,... is something that JUNTA can finally choose to abandon,"

Please remember that JUNTA is NOT Thailand.

Edited February 11, 2015 by EnzoRippo

[Fatty123]

Brave man for writing this. In an age where academic freedom is under threat in Thailand, we have a well thought out and brave article here. Well done to the newspaper for daring to print it too. Just hope the AA trucks aren't on their way to visit Doctor Phakdeewanich as I type.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Fatty123

[NeverSure]

In another article today the UN is criticizing. LINK

Thailand must learn that it doesn't live in a bubble IF it wants to be engaged with the West.

[Strangebrew]

At least the spark of Democracy is alive. Someone who seems to understand the message Of the request to see Thailand return to civilian rule, that a military run country are counter productive.

[chainarong]

Thailand for the past 15 + years has stagnated , those that were here in 1995 remember Thailand as a vibrant country, so much so the economy was going gang busters then Bang , 1997 saw the collapse and all of Asia went down the gurgler , since that point Thailand has stopped, corruption en-mass started , the moral fabric of Thai respect disappeared, the dog eat dog mentality had arrived , these days companies are now searching else where , Thailand is no longer a by word in the west and must to see in-fact when you look at the picture from outside, Thailand can only go in one direction, that's up ,it can't go any lower, compared to yester year Thailand is in mortal decline.

[yellowboat]

"Forever scapegoating either the Shinawatra family, as unduly influential, or the rural poor, by stereotyping them as lacking any understanding of the country's problems, may wear thin with even the most radical. Where better to look then, than in the direction of the predominant foreign superpower with a tarnished reputation?"

Not giving the elitist camp much room to maneuver. Hope they do not arrest him. Some westerners on this forum may feel he needs an attitude adjustment courtesy of a nearby military post. When it is all said and done, the junta will protect the privileged few at the expense of everyone else.

[bobmac10]

When one is born into privilege and one looks to history to see that it has always been this way, it is difficult to gain another perspective.

For my own experience here in Thailand of over 30 years, I have met on occasions members of the wealthy Bangkok elite.

They do live a separate reality, they have absolutely no connection with the masses. The circles in which they mix are so removed from everyday Thais, they have no inkling of the lives of the working classes.

Even the Bangkok media companies, owned by the elite cannot depict rural people in a drama series without making them a parody, uncouth, laughable country bumpkins.

It is a sad indictment of the ruling class, but true however.

The military come from a similar high class, whose forefathers commanded elephant armies for the aristocracy.

Nothing will change here unless there is a democratically elected government and they are allowed to make the mistakes our early democracies made.

The continual interference in Thai politics by the military, as if it is their right and privilege, will only serve the elite and continue to supress the working classes.

[djjamie]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Edited February 12, 2015 by djjamie

[mogo51]

Yes a very brave article indeed. As an expat resident, I see the move slowly but definately moving away from the west, as I see an underlying motive to

do the same to us!

[NeverSure]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Western countries have tolerated and worked with countries which don't have democracies out of necessity. The world has worked with Saudi Arabia and Russia due to oil. But those same countries didn't go into Saudi or Russia and invest big money in manufacturing plants or make other economic gains for those countries. Saudi and Russia in their present configurations would be economically dead without oil. Today the Ruble is worth just .015 USD. LINK

Thailand doesn't really have anything to offer other than cheap labor and lots of countries, including all Asian countries and specifically ASEAN countries offer cheap labor. The US and Japan don't need Thailand to manufacture cars or scooters or smartphones or hard disk drives or CPUs. Many ASEAN countries and other countries would LOVE to topple Thailand in that regard.

If Thailand isn't careful it will lose the confidence of the US and Japan and manufacturing will move elsewhere. The Phils have a government and leader who are very pro-business. Myanmar wants business as does Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam to name a few.

The US and Japan have bought large tracts of industrial land in Myanmar near Yangon. The US is going to move back into Clark Air Force Base and Subic Bay.

In the meantime Thailand flirts with China giving the US and Japan even less of a feeling of security about Thai investments going forward.

The current Thai government has no clue about international relationships with its best friends and investors, and it could indeed begin to bleed jobs and money.

As far as I'm concerned, China can have Thailand and then we'll see how Thailand really fares under that arrangement.

[starky]

The longstanding effort to find others to blame for all and sundry - including the seemingly intractable societal rift - is a strategy that risks running out of enemies. Forever scapegoating either the Shinawatra family, as unduly influential, or the rural poor, by stereotyping them as lacking any understanding of the country's problems, may wear thin with even the most radical My oh my what will happen to TVF and the flag waving junta loving yellow shirt brigade...

[TheDiva]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

It's difficult to know where to start with this "intriguing" take on events which combines naivety, accusations without a shred of proof, faux nationalism by proxy, a shared passion with the junta for not accepting criticism, sensationalism and a penchant for misrepresenting reality, that it's probably best not to bother, so I won't.

Edited February 12, 2015 by TheDiva

[trd]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Yours is a twisted logic to suit your own agenda. Whatever you may feel about the previous government, you seem to forget one thing. They were voted in by the majority of the people through a democratic process. No democratically voted government anywhere in the world is free from failings. There is corruption in my own country 800 years after Magna Carta. But as soon as you accept the short term solutions of an imposed regime, you are on the slippery slope. I fear your attitude has been "adjusted."

[Eric Loh]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Not some think but actually is the sad state of Thailand politics. Staging 12 successful and 9 unsuccessful coup since 1912 or 5 years per coup is holding the country hostage by the military and no difference holding power for ever. Rest of your post I not bother to read as your usual irrational self-serving troll.

[fgmr]

Perhaps the US administration would be more amenable if those drafting the new Thai Constitution kept in mind the words of Thomas Paine.

Dissertation on First Principles of Government (July 1795)

"It is the nature and intention of a constitution to prevent governing by party, by establishing a common principle that shall limit and control the power and impulse of party, and that says to all parties, thus far shalt thou go and no further."

I would add another of his sentiments:- "It is pleasant to observe by what regular gradation we surmount the force of local prejudice as we enlarge our acquaintance with the world."

I am skeptical as to whether anyone holding the reins of Thai policy making will give Titipol Phakdeewanich's article consideration or reply to it in a positive manner.

[noitom]

Preposterous Thai tripe. Terribly written article. Surprising that a newspaper would even publish such tripe.

[Laughing Gravy]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Ok I have read your, well elitist propaganda. Your first statement says it all. Let me translate. We will have elections when we feel like, taken the power away from people, so the masses can't be in power again and probably take a hold on as much as the wealth as possible.

Just to remind you elections were promised once already but that has been 'put back' .All that writing about democracy. It is simple one person one vote. Other than that it is selective democracy. You sound like an agent for the current... people forcing their will on the people.

So if you don't believe in democracy, as I am reading from what you have written what do you want? Something like China which is a mockery of communism? Or do you want the same as North Korea.?

[yellowboat]

Perhaps the US administration would be more amenable if those drafting the new Thai Constitution kept in mind the words of Thomas Paine.

Dissertation on First Principles of Government (July 1795)

"It is the nature and intention of a constitution to prevent governing by party, by establishing a common principle that shall limit and control the power and impulse of party, and that says to all parties, thus far shalt thou go and no further."

I would add another of his sentiments:- "It is pleasant to observe by what regular gradation we surmount the force of local prejudice as we enlarge our acquaintance with the world."

I am skeptical as to whether anyone holding the reins of Thai policy making will give Titipol Phakdeewanich's article consideration or reply to it in a positive manner.

If you read djjamie's post, you will get a good sense as to the kind of reply it will get from other government shills . It will be twisted and full of conflicting statements and exaggerated.

[yellowboat]

Preposterous Thai tripe. Terribly written article. Surprising that a newspaper would even publish such tripe.

"Preposterous Thai tripe" . That says it all right there. Shameless.

[Sviss Geez]

Preposterous Thai tripe. Terribly written article. Surprising that a newspaper would even publish such tripe.

There he goes again...

[IMA_FARANG]

Thailand and the Thai government need to understand.............

The U.S. has no friends, only allies.

Allies are what can benefit them right now, when they need help.

It is like an old girlfriend who wants to make up with you.

Thailand needs to be able the question ," But honey, just what can you do for me NOW, right now ?

I know we has some good times before, but what can you do for me right now" ?

[Don Aleman]

The 181 year relationship,( excluding the year Thailand was a Japanese ally ), will remain but some of the freebies will slowly disappear as the Ambassadorship already has. Many in the US congress already questioning Thailand's value to the US and taxpayers want much foreign aid be discontinued except in humanity , Earthquakes, eruptions, disease ), situations as much money sent. here and elsewhere simply disappears

and not used properly. Maybe the US and others have/are guilty of interfering with domestic problems

but no more than a father directing and, sometimes criticizing the son's activities. I, for one, support the US ending aid just to be nice and feel Cobra Gold should be discontinued completely as the US can train their own

in the US and save a few BILLION dollars every year.

[bobmac10]

Jamie, "offering reform" as you put it, should not mean supressing opinions, placing restrictions on the media, arresting people for complaining about the Junta, bringing citizens to Attitude Adjustment sessions, paying money to citizens to inform on people opposed to the regime, stacking the people's assembly with their own representatives etc etc.

Sadly this is what is happening.

As I have said before, the patriotism flag is being waved harder than ever as some sort of excuse for all of the above. but as Samuel Johnson said "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

[donmuang37]

Hmm... much to do about nothing. Most Thais believe that the world stops at the Thai border and have no interest of what happens outside of Thailand. Other Thais believe that Thailand is the center (or should I say "hub") of the universe.

In reality, Thailand is simply a small, insignificant country in SE Asia, which is heading to become just another province of China. I'm sure they will all love it, Comrade!

[GinBoy2]

It may be me...but is The Nation actually growing 'a pair'???

In recent months it seems to have moved from it's usual sycophantic mush, to actually publishing some actually rather good, thoughtful editorials.

On the actual topic of the article it was actually good to see a Thai journalist actually realize that for the US, Thailand is expendable.

The days of it being a 'useful' regime in the region when military coups could be tolerated against the backdrop of communism in SE Asia, are long gone. It's strategic position, which gets touted as frequently as a whore drops her underwear, is a nonsense. For the US, Vietnam, The Philippines, Japan & Singapore now are much more useful in the restraint of China's ambitions in the South China Sea.

If the Junta believes that whipping up a new scapegoat for the Thai chattering classes, now that the Shin's are no more will solve the ill's of the country, well go for it. The US doesn't really need to care any longer what Thailand thinks or does, and reading US press none of this latest storm in a teacup even gets a mention.

[smedly]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Not some think but actually is the sad state of Thailand politics. Staging 12 successful and 9 unsuccessful coup since 1912 or 5 years per coup is holding the country hostage by the military and no difference holding power for ever. Rest of your post I not bother to read as your usual irrational self-serving troll.

Lets keep this simple so people like you understand

Pre coup last year - the country was going down the s-h-I-t-t-e-r fast

The PTP government were lying cheating thieving abusing ignoring at every level

The country was being run by a despot convicted criminal on the run living in exile in another country

The man in the sand was trying to push through an amnesty bill using every cheating dirty trick in the book and then some

The red terrorist group were slaughtering people around the country including children

The police were being instructed not to interfere with the murders - and they did nothing

All of this under the guise of a democracy that existed in name only coming from an election that was bought through vote buying and unworkable populist policies

All in the name of Thaksins so called reconciliation - really ?

Until the rules that govern governments are put in place and effective institutions are put in place to police them (reforms) Thailand will continue the historical cycle of elections and coups and the people will continue to be used as pons while the greedy and corrupt rob them blind -

Even the most powerful office in the world is governed by rules and a senate that ensures he plays by them

Yeh lets have elections in Thailand now without change and reform - how stupid and ridiculous is that

[rayw]

Some seem to think that the Junta are going to be holding onto power for ever. Some have forgotten that they have promised elections when they can implement reform so all the other principles of democracy that were abused by the previous regime are adhered to.

Of course some that cry "We want Democracy" the loudest are ironically the same people that supported a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive. Bizzaro world again!

Russel's comments about "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded" is the preamble the shin regimes have used to justify acts of terrorism and armed insurrection that have left hundreds of people dead. It is also the narrative used to justify engineered US-backed violence in other nations aimed at regime change.

Russel said "Thai citizens feeling that they've been excluded". Yet not one American said that when thaksin tried to push a free trade agreement though bypassing parliament and the senate. Thai citizens voted for their parliamentarians and they are supposed to represent them. Thai citizens were excluded then. No word from the USA on this exclusion of the Thai citizens. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look at the Siam Paragon bombing. After the bombing, the US Embassy in Thailand neither warned people about the violence, nor condemned it. Instead, the official US Embassy Twitter account congratulated the New England Patriots for winning the Super Bowl. They knew it was a red shirt. That is what the red shirts specialize it. I bet if a PDRC supporter was responsible for the bombing the NY Times would do an analysis of it. Logic to suit an agenda.

Look no further than when millions of Thai citizens that America said are being excluded were protesting. It did not make American news or if it did it was written off as small insignificant protests. When 3 students, I repeat 3 Thai citizens protest and are arrested the NY Times do an analysis and state these 3 are the majority! So millions on the streets are a minority. 3 on a stage. A majority. Logic to suit an agenda.

For the US to defend a prime minister openly serving as a proxy for a convicted criminal hiding abroad, and who presided over a regime that damaged the economy while literally murdering its political opponents in the streets, is a clear breach of diplomatic protocol and unbecoming of the alleged purpose of the US State Department itself. It exists to represent the will of the American people abroad, not to impose its will upon others. A bit like Chalerms Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order or CAPO. The only department that did everything apart from restoring peace and order and in fact fueled just the opposite (bizzaro world). So when the State department support a regime run by an unelected criminal fugitive, but do not support a Junta that is offerering reform to ensure the country is not run by unelected criminal fugitives that is not democracy according to the US. It is a lack there of! Logic to suit an agenda.

America said "The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action" and that is why America have been molding Thailand since the Vietnam war to be a united front against China alongside Pakistan, Korea and Japan. It is no secret and the US began this effort during the Vietnam war as shown here. They then highlighted this push again here. Because of that America is not going anywhere and all this noise is just that. Noise. They must be desperately worried that Thailand will go against their dreams by joining China and making noise is their way of showing their frustration that the time and money they invested in swaying Thailand to its agenda is not paying off.

This could not be further from democracy than a drunk blind mans dart from the dart board at 50 meters. Democracy is a swell handle for them to use though. It keeps the gullible hooked.

Well said. I do not want to knock the USA in particular, but Washington's crazy actions these days do enable us to all too easily be able to do exactly that these days with their dangerous lies, misinformation, arrogance and corruption. So blame the understandable massive current Worldwide US knocking on Washington and nobody else.

It is high time the decent US folk did something about ridding themselves of this corruption and wickedness in Washington and forget BOTH the Democrat and Republican parties next time they have elections. Lets honestly face it the Democrats are not that much better than the right wing fat cat pond life in the Republican party, as both are now fully and undemocratically controlled and paid off by Corporate America and no longer by the US people who democratically put them into power !!!. Clearly US Democracy is all but dead (getting like that in the UK too) so they have no right to spout off to Thailand whilst the currently unelected military based Government is I truly believe sincerely doing all they can to properly restore what will hopefully be this time a better and truer democracy, that is if the Thai folk allow that to happen as I believe the majority will do so.

Most normal Thai folk I speak to seem to support this temporary Junta Government in there commendable endeavours which I hope we are all clearly seeing many benefits already and a lot of positive hard work form them too. Sure probably none of us can agree with everything they are doing but they are doing it, it seems, honestly and with good intentions with Thailand's well being in their hearts.

I am not saying my own country the UK is a lot better but ATM Washington really take the biscuit in their arrogant self proclaimed "exceptional" and "indispensable" dangerous view of themselves !!! Similar posturing to what we saw with past dangerous and arrogant leaders like Hitler and Stalin came out with back last century and look at the results and damage that caused !! I think more nations really need to break away from being US vassal puppet states, as we are hopefully seeing some signs of that happening in Europe now, but only small signs as yet. Personally I really do not want to see Thailand or any of the rest of the World controlled and ruled by corporate run Washington and their evil corrupt ways aiming at total world domination if we sit back and allow that to happen.

Just my two cents worth and I believe what many folk in this World now feel too. No response needed and juvenile flaming will be completely ignored of course. It is really NOT intended to offend or upset any ordinary US folk as I have many US friends here and back in the USA, and I know a lot of them do keep their eyes and minds open, and thus will and do agree with this viewpoint too, and not without sound sensible and logical reasoning of course.

[NeverSure]

Thailand and the Thai government need to understand.............

The U.S. has no friends, only allies.

Allies are what can benefit them right now, when they need help.

It is like an old girlfriend who wants to make up with you.

Thailand needs to be able the question ," But honey, just what can you do for me NOW, right now ?

I know we has some good times before, but what can you do for me right now" ?

You are so wrong about that point. The US has long standing friends. Friends it would come to defend in the middle of the night anywhere, any time. Friends it shares intelligence with and friends who have access to anything the US has.

Even if the friends sometimes don't appreciate it, the US is loyal. Let someone lay a finger on the UK or Germany or several other European countries or Canada or S. Korea or up until now Thailand and some others around the world and see what happens to them. Right now.

Sometimes the US is much better a friend than its friends are.

[Thai at Heart]

If the army and the so called parliament keep throwing their toys out of the cot for being reminded that they promised a return to democracy, then if may well be in jeopardy.

Of course, the USA could just look down their noses at these stupid tantrums for public consumption and wait for the Thais to grow up.