Australian traveller tells of his holiday nightmare in Thailand

[gyrosman]

Looking at the pictures it seems like he was infected with Necrotizing Faciitis or 'Flesh Eating Bacteria". It's very prevalent here in Thailand. I have had it no less than 5 times, the bacteria is always present but benign until the skin becomes broken. A small thing like a mosquito bite can turn into a huge gaping ulcer. One of my lower legs had to be amputated because of this disease. This bloke was lucky he didn't suffer the same fate. See https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=necrotizing+fasciitis

I feel your pain as I have had this infection 2 times, once in Singapore and they cut 7 cm of meat out of my right knee area. Six months ago I landed in the hospital and feared about losing my leg which was a result of an insect bit from months before. One day my leg and infection came to the surface. The bad part is its just around my ankle which has been fused with 5 screws and the infection has been into my bone area and my leg up to my knee is still black.

This is called a Super-Bug and its a big problem in Asia.

[ICECOOL]

People travel and don't do what all the advise and doctors say then seem surprised when they get into trouble. You need the proper injections for where you go , travel insurance and if you have an accident make sure you use common sense and get best treatment. Don't rely on local standard. Make sure you get medical help as you would in your home country. I had a accident similiar to this on day one of a trip to Myanmar a few years ago. Got proper treatment including another tetanus shot (even though I was up to date) plus antibiotics ($12 well spent) and followed up by having the wound redressed regularly. I finished my 2 week trip. Common sense will help in a lot of situations. The guy should have taken one look at that repair job and went to a real doctor off the island if necessary.

[DaveinAsia]

the moral of the story is that thais do things differently by nature than westerners. I was on a beach in kpy once and some drug addict drowned. westerners were trying to give him mouth to mouth. whilst the thais hang the drowning victim upside down and shake them.........he died regardless. kpy is for druggies. now if I was overdosing on drugs then kpy is the place to go for treatment

Koh Pha Ngan you mean or Koh Phan Yang?

[spidermike007]

Sorry, but this does not seem like much of a story. Infections happen everywhere, and all of us are more prone to infections in the tropics. That is well known. Perhaps it is the humidity, but the cuts can get easily infected here. It does sound like this guy was a bit cavalier in his attitude toward his injuries, and it does sound like he did not do much to prevent these infections, nor did he exercise much care, when it comes to avoiding the injuries to begin with. so. my compassion for the bloke is limited. As I said, seem like a non story to me. And the last entity to blame for his woes is Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

the moral of the story is that thais do things differently by nature than westerners. I was on a beach in kpy once and some drug addict drowned. westerners were trying to give him mouth to mouth. whilst the thais hang the drowning victim upside down and shake them.........he died regardless. kpy is for druggies. now if I was overdosing on drugs then kpy is the place to go for treatment

People should get a proper first aid training and then keep up to date. It is no longer NECESSARY to do mouth to mouth, compressions are sufficient.

Also, people should be aware that exchange of bodily fluids with an unknown person carries the risk of infection, especially with a drug addict. No way I'd give one mouth to mouth without a filtered mouthpiece or ambubag. Same goes for blood- use gloves or avoid. Why get aids just to help a stranger, and infect your beloved as well?

BTW, when I travel I carry a well stocked first aid kit with all the bits necessary for first aid.

[thaibeachlovers]

Looking at the pictures it seems like he was infected with Necrotizing Faciitis or 'Flesh Eating Bacteria". It's very prevalent here in Thailand. I have had it no less than 5 times, the bacteria is always present but benign until the skin becomes broken. A small thing like a mosquito bite can turn into a huge gaping ulcer. One of my lower legs had to be amputated because of this disease. This bloke was lucky he didn't suffer the same fate. See https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=necrotizing+fasciitis

I feel your pain as I have had this infection 2 times, once in Singapore and they cut 7 cm of meat out of my right knee area. Six months ago I landed in the hospital and feared about losing my leg which was a result of an insect bit from months before. One day my leg and infection came to the surface. The bad part is its just around my ankle which has been fused with 5 screws and the infection has been into my bone area and my leg up to my knee is still black.

This is called a Super-Bug and its a big problem in Asia.

Unfortunately because of antibiotic abuse all over the world, resistant bugs are spreading and new drugs to treat are harder to produce. Get used to such tales as they will become more prevelant.

[The manic]

This is a non story. The medical problem could happen anywhere. The gross graphics, which were forced on to the reader due to the story linkage and layout were entirely unnecessary.

[thaibeachlovers]

i always have a bottle of hydrogen peroxide at the house and with me when i travel.

just pore it all over a wound like water. very cheap. end of problem.

Hydrogen peroxide is commonly used but it looks better than it is at disinfection. The same mechanism that causes foaming reduces its effectiveness. Also, once opened it degrades within a few months.

"In conclusion, hydrogen peroxide appears not to negatively influence wound healing, but it is also ineffective in reducing the bacterial count. However, it may be useful as a chemical debriding agent. The American Medical Association concluded that the effervescence of hydrogen peroxide might provide some mechanical benefit in loosening debris and necrotic tissue of the wound"

I'd suggest, if you can find it (it's common the the US) but may not be in Thailand, is Chlorhexidine Gluconate 4% solution, it's cheap and quite powerful.

I recommend it to scrub an area for surgery the day before and many docs do exactly that. H2O2's better than nothing though....

NCC you appear to have mixed up your reply and jsfs post.

Anyway, I haven't seen Chlorhexidine Gluconate 4% solution in the pharmacies in LOS ( but I wasn't looking ), however, they do sell betadine- it's what we used for surgery in the UK.

[thaibeachlovers]

didn't even read your whole post . thier are good hospitals and bad ones in every country. now im from usa. so I would go to mayo clinic in Minnesota with any real issue. otherwise I would want an English speaker, if I was in asia and needed real help I think I would strongly consider india. Thailand, not sure. depends on issue. remember one thing. all hospitals are selling services. buyer beware anywhere. including usa. but i want a surgeon trained in usa.

the moral of the story is to be aware of the dangers of the Thai healthcare system........... don't think because someone is wearing a white coat or they have modernist armchairs and a fish tank that these people are either trained to the standards you expect or even have the same ethics..........this is NOT just local clinics, this applies to major hospitals as well.

Whoever did that stitching needs to go back to their old job - making handbags

I have found the Thai Healthcare system to be far better than anything I've experienced in Europe. Plus all the doctors are from Thailand which is good as it stops any communication problems if you speak Thai..Although most doctors are fluent in Thai, English and possibly even a third language.... Last Year I spent over six hours in an A and E in England with a very sick four year old. The reason we were in an A and E was because the quickest appointment we could get to see a doctor in a local clinic was 9 days!! Eventually, when a doctor showed up he was a non native speaker who was barely understandable..The ward was full of drunk people and drug addicts! The hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer.The health system here really puts Europe to shame.And we have the audacity to refer to Thailand as a 'developing country'(some uneducated people even refer to Thailand as a third world country!!)

The article about the OP highlights the arrogance of the West towards other countries. It is a weak attempt at continuing the Australian media's attempts to disparage Thailand. The fact that the man in question can't wait to get back to Thailand says it all really...

'Hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer'? Eh up, another one's gone troppo. Look at the way they stitched him up, etc. Would you say that if you'd actually seen rats running around and wards totally open to the elements and roads?

You've never seen the myriad drunks, druggies and those on pesticides at all times of the day in Thai hospitals then? I've been to many, all over the country. What time of day were you in UK A&E? Only time I've seen drunks is on Fri/Sat nights? If the kid was seriously sick, you would have been seen immediately and get free ambulance service from anywhere in the country. Btw, don't be tempted to lump the UK health service into one barrel because of the experiences of one A&E in one hospital. That makes you sound very naive in trying to bolster your dead-end argument. There are some amazing NHS hospitals and you haven't even touched on the private sector yet which makes your rip-off yankee ones look like halfway houses.

Well, I worked for 10 years in NHS hospitals and had major surgery in one. All I can say is that at least they clean the Thai hospitals- the NHS ones were filthy, and the nurses were not very good ( however, that tends to be an issue with degree educated nurses anywhere ).

As for the suturing- that's an individual thing and one bad Dr doesn't mean they all are. The one that sewed me up did an OK job, and I didn't get an infection.

[thaibeachlovers]

It is sad that people have blind faith in Thai healthcare - some pay the price for this, but few realise the risk they are taking.

this person had no option but to follow the course he did - he might have acted quicker when infection set in - but then most people are unaware of what the early signs of infection can be.

Drawing comparisons with procedural delays in other systems is not a valid argument - after many years experience inside the Thai healthcare system and talking to many foreign workers in major hospitals I can tell you that here are SERIOUS flaws in the Thai system. ........ Training and accountability being the foremost.

Don't think that just because there in ONE doctor there who is "good" means the system is good too - the whole system depends on ALL those working there - it doesn't even matter if they have the "latest equipment' if they aren't operating in correctly it doesn't mean a thing.

Personal experience is not valid - many people leave hospitals thinking it was great because they were "cured" - yet they don't have any idea of whether or not they got the most appropriate treatment.... or simply just lucky.

Thai healthcare is a lottery - the guy in the OP is an example of this - an elementary blunder by a Thai Medical practitioner that in any other country would have resulted in some form of official action is here regarded as "just one of those things"

I don't get your point. If you have an accident you are hostage to the situation. What are you going to do as you are bleeding to death- ask for a second opinion?

Also, most people wouldn't know the difference between good and bad hospital treatment anyway.

an elementary blunder by a Thai Medical practitioner that in any other country would have resulted in some form of official action is here regarded as "just one of those things"

Not in Saudi it wouldn't. They also bury a lot of medical malpractice there, as the custom is to bury the dead at sunrise or something ( I forget the exact time ) so dead one day, buried the next and no autopsy.

Edited February 18, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[The manic]

Chlorhexidine Gluconate? Is that the active ingredient of the most effective mouthwash also?

[The manic]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

[claffey]

didn't even read your whole post . thier are good hospitals and bad ones in every country. now im from usa. so I would go to mayo clinic in Minnesota with any real issue. otherwise I would want an English speaker, if I was in asia and needed real help I think I would strongly consider india. Thailand, not sure. depends on issue. remember one thing. all hospitals are selling services. buyer beware anywhere. including usa. but i want a surgeon trained in usa.

the moral of the story is to be aware of the dangers of the Thai healthcare system........... don't think because someone is wearing a white coat or they have modernist armchairs and a fish tank that these people are either trained to the standards you expect or even have the same ethics..........this is NOT just local clinics, this applies to major hospitals as well.

Whoever did that stitching needs to go back to their old job - making handbags

I have found the Thai Healthcare system to be far better than anything I've experienced in Europe. Plus all the doctors are from Thailand which is good as it stops any communication problems if you speak Thai..Although most doctors are fluent in Thai, English and possibly even a third language.... Last Year I spent over six hours in an A and E in England with a very sick four year old. The reason we were in an A and E was because the quickest appointment we could get to see a doctor in a local clinic was 9 days!! Eventually, when a doctor showed up he was a non native speaker who was barely understandable..The ward was full of drunk people and drug addicts! The hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer.The health system here really puts Europe to shame.And we have the audacity to refer to Thailand as a 'developing country'(some uneducated people even refer to Thailand as a third world country!!)

The article about the OP highlights the arrogance of the West towards other countries. It is a weak attempt at continuing the Australian media's attempts to disparage Thailand. The fact that the man in question can't wait to get back to Thailand says it all really...

'Hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer'? Eh up, another one's gone troppo. Look at the way they stitched him up, etc. Would you say that if you'd actually seen rats running around and wards totally open to the elements and roads?

You've never seen the myriad drunks, druggies and those on pesticides at all times of the day in Thai hospitals then? I've been to many, all over the country. What time of day were you in UK A&E? Only time I've seen drunks is on Fri/Sat nights? If the kid was seriously sick, you would have been seen immediately and get free ambulance service from anywhere in the country. Btw, don't be tempted to lump the UK health service into one barrel because of the experiences of one A&E in one hospital. That makes you sound very naive in trying to bolster your dead-end argument. There are some amazing NHS hospitals and you haven't even touched on the private sector yet which makes your rip-off yankee ones look like halfway houses.

Well, I worked for 10 years in NHS hospitals and had major surgery in one. All I can say is that at least they clean the Thai hospitals- the NHS ones were filthy, and the nurses were not very good ( however, that tends to be an issue with degree educated nurses anywhere ).

As for the suturing- that's an individual thing and one bad Dr doesn't mean they all are. The one that sewed me up did an OK job, and I didn't get an infection.

The first thing we noticed in NHS was the filth in the corridors. They also seemed to believe that having the temperature of the hospital really low would help sick people. Or they didn't pay the heating bills!!! I'll never forget our experiences with the NHS. Thai hospitals are like 5 star hotels compared to them...

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed as well aa posts offering incorrect medical advice.

[thaibeachlovers]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

It seems to me that people that don't know think Drs are supposed to be perfect and never make a mistake- sorry, but they are just as fallible as the non Drs. After 26 years in the health service, it seems to me that knowledge is only part of it. Unfortunately we can't all have Drs that have many years of experience in whatever it is that afflicts you, and getting better comes down to luck in many cases.

Over the years I worked with some really good health professionals, and quite a few that were terrible. Most were average.

[cumgranosalum]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

Both your premise and your conclusion are completely incorrect.

[marko kok prong]

Scratched a mossie bite last year,a week later had a large tropical ulcer on the ankle,luckily i sought medical treatment immediatly and after a couple of weeks on antibiotics,and anti biotic cream applied to the ulcer itself was ok,also kept it clean,and covered with a breathable bandage,this is important as it was the time of year when those tiny black flies were around and they love getting into theses kind of wounds,i now have a nice scar as a reminder.

[cumgranosalum]

didn't even read your whole post . thier are good hospitals and bad ones in every country. now im from usa. so I would go to mayo clinic in Minnesota with any real issue. otherwise I would want an English speaker, if I was in asia and needed real help I think I would strongly consider india. Thailand, not sure. depends on issue. remember one thing. all hospitals are selling services. buyer beware anywhere. including usa. but i want a surgeon trained in usa.

the moral of the story is to be aware of the dangers of the Thai healthcare system........... don't think because someone is wearing a white coat or they have modernist armchairs and a fish tank that these people are either trained to the standards you expect or even have the same ethics..........this is NOT just local clinics, this applies to major hospitals as well.

Whoever did that stitching needs to go back to their old job - making handbags

I have found the Thai Healthcare system to be far better than anything I've experienced in Europe. Plus all the doctors are from Thailand which is good as it stops any communication problems if you speak Thai..Although most doctors are fluent in Thai, English and possibly even a third language.... Last Year I spent over six hours in an A and E in England with a very sick four year old. The reason we were in an A and E was because the quickest appointment we could get to see a doctor in a local clinic was 9 days!! Eventually, when a doctor showed up he was a non native speaker who was barely understandable..The ward was full of drunk people and drug addicts! The hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer.The health system here really puts Europe to shame.And we have the audacity to refer to Thailand as a 'developing country'(some uneducated people even refer to Thailand as a third world country!!)

The article about the OP highlights the arrogance of the West towards other countries. It is a weak attempt at continuing the Australian media's attempts to disparage Thailand. The fact that the man in question can't wait to get back to Thailand says it all really...

As soon as you hear "in my experience" or "i have found" you can be sure you aren't going to hear a reasoned argument - just someone's personal perspective - as they don't realise how limited this is it is basically invalid and pointless to counter.

I thought forums were for posting your opinion and debating with other people??? I've been here over ten years now. I've been to many hospitals. My son was born here five years ago. I've heard many good stories about the hospitals here. We only read negative reports here because positive reports are not newsworthy. .. By the way thank you for your own personal perspective on my post. As it's your own view it is obviously also invalid and pointless. Seems to me you couldn't disagree with my view so you tried to disparage my post by calling it pointless!! Are you in a position to compare the Thai Health system with Europe's? This topic is about the Thai health system and one man's experience of it.(which was positive)...Your post contributes nothing to this debate...

I gave no perspective on your post - I gave an opinion based on many posts - and YES I have very good basis to compare with Europe, having come from there.

[thaibeachlovers]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

Both your premise and your conclusion are completely incorrect.

I don't get your reply. There are a lot of unnecessary deaths in the health system of any country, though I can't give the exact statistics for the UK- not saying that LOS is any better though. I say that as someone that worked in hospitals in 3 different countries over 26 years.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that the western system keeps a lot of people alive that really would be better off passing away, IMO. Which is why I have made a living will stating no active treatment if in a coma. My biggest fear is that they will disregard it and treat me anyway.

In my experience of Thai hospitals, there isn't much difference between them and the NHS hospital I had major surgery in, except the Thai hospital was cleaner.

Edited February 18, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[The manic]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

Both your premise and your conclusion are completely incorrect.

No. I am afraid to say you are wrong.

1000 unnecessary deaths a month. British Government Stats. The scandal of child abuse and baby deaths, and what can only be described as torture of old folk, for which nobody was held to account in any meaningful way. Both my premise/information re the UK NHS and the Thai medical system is 100 % correct.

I have been in hospital in both countries. Thai hospital are far more efficient, caring and compassionate than the UK state hospitals.

[Toknarok]

Looking at the pictures it seems like he was infected with Necrotizing Faciitis or 'Flesh Eating Bacteria". It's very prevalent here in Thailand. I have had it no less than 5 times, the bacteria is always present but benign until the skin becomes broken. A small thing like a mosquito bite can turn into a huge gaping ulcer. One of my lower legs had to be amputated because of this disease. This bloke was lucky he didn't suffer the same fate. See https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=necrotizing+fasciitis

I feel your pain as I have had this infection 2 times, once in Singapore and they cut 7 cm of meat out of my right knee area. Six months ago I landed in the hospital and feared about losing my leg which was a result of an insect bit from months before. One day my leg and infection came to the surface. The bad part is its just around my ankle which has been fused with 5 screws and the infection has been into my bone area and my leg up to my knee is still black.

This is called a Super-Bug and its a big problem in Asia.

It especially affects farangs here in Buriram. This diease can easily prove fatal if not treated properly. I know of at least 2 farangs who died because of this and have heard of many others. That is not to say that Thais don't get it, when I was in Buriram Hospital a few months ago there is a special ward that treats this disease. In the 12 days that I was in hospital two Thais in this ward died.

[HooHaa]

the moral of the story is that thais do things differently by nature than westerners. I was on a beach in kpy once and some drug addict drowned. westerners were trying to give him mouth to mouth. whilst the thais hang the drowning victim upside down and shake them.........he died regardless. kpy is for druggies. now if I was overdosing on drugs then kpy is the place to go for treatment

it would seem that your path to enlightenment remains a long one.

and what the hell does kpy mean?

there is no y in Phan Ngan

[HooHaa]

the moral of the story is that thais do things differently by nature than westerners. I was on a beach in kpy once and some drug addict drowned. westerners were trying to give him mouth to mouth. whilst the thais hang the drowning victim upside down and shake them.........he died regardless. kpy is for druggies. now if I was overdosing on drugs then kpy is the place to go for treatment

Koh Pha Ngan you mean or Koh Phan Yang?

koh phan Yoga perhaps.

im sending him light.

[umbanda]

I had a Thai doctor to once tell me that the bacteria in Thailand is not the same for farang as it is for Thai people.

Even the bacteria is against us!

He was right. Local people bodies immune system creates defenses for local environment, in particular in people living in poverty. Some kids in many Asian countries like India, Indonesia, etc, live around trash dumping areas, and rarely get infected. Same in many South American countries. The best advice is to take tetanus shot and antibiotics every time getting a suspected cut, bite, or infection without clear cause, specially when working in gardening or crows. Any good doctor or nurse will do that, if not, keep looking for better attention.

[Loles]

Just for the fairness.

The title of article is a bit false, cause this was a full bad luck and accident.

Would be happened every-where around the world.

"Holiday nightmare in TH" means you got something specially wrong thing especially from Thais or Thai authorities.
This case without this at all.

I wish full and fast recovery.

[Borzandy]

Bacteria is different in Thailand? If it's 'stronger' it might just be down to the misuse of antibiotics regularly dispensed for colds and flu which are viral, and for almost anything else.

Bacteria is different in Thailand and hospital are different too.

[ksamuiguy]

We carry a small bottle of Betadine every where we go, kills all bacteria and virus's even the dredged Thai one's

Only a stop gap precaution until proper cleaning and attention can be found.

Tetanus shots for all staff is our policy, booster if a large wound or a puncture wound.

Better safe than sorry.

[beowolf2012]

Many get this wrong. I have the problem self

for over 2 years ago I get a motorbike accident I think I was very lucky

I not had more problems end some scratches in the skin noting broken

But after visit to a hotel in Pattaya there only go 12 hour I was in the hotel for sleep.

In the night I want to get to toilet and soddenly I cut not stand on my foot and also lot of pain.

When I had to check out I ask for sleep in the lobby until my bus get going so I wait 2 - 3 hour

and have to have a man to drive me over to the bus station because I not cut stand on my leg.

When I come to Surin I had to take a duk duk to hospital and then I had to stay there because I

get fever. The doctor find out I get infection there come from inside the leg and get out at the

leg very painful. I get a drain operation.

And all this come from Thai government water when you take a shower. Thai government water is very danger to small scratches in the skin...

[sabaii69]

Bacteria is different in Thailand? If it's 'stronger' it might just be down to the misuse of antibiotics regularly dispensed for colds and flu which are viral, and for almost anything else.

Maybe it's the chilis.

Nothing can live inside you if you eat a lot of chilis.

. Put chilis on the wound and kill everything, possibly yourself from a heart attack

[NamKAheng]

Nothing can live inside you if you eat a lot of chilis.

. Put chilis on the wound and kill everything, possibly yourself from a heart attack

Yes put chili on the wound and you get a free course of prik kee noo dancing!