Video: Por Tek Tung - The Thai Body Snatchers

[ColPyat]

He's Back!

Anything else to contribute to the topic, or just the usual trolling?

[jdinasia]

He's Back!

Anything else to contribute to the topic, or just the usual trolling?

Nope I have no claims to belong to any rescue org located in BKK

[ColPyat]

He's Back!

Anything else to contribute to the topic, or just the usual trolling?

Nope I have no claims to belong to any rescue org located in BKK

Meaning that you just have the urge to say something, even though it has no relation whatsoever to the topic, and you having no idea about the topic anyhow. Nothing new about this, i am afraid.

Can we get back to the topic of "Por Teck Tueng - The Thai Bodysnatchers", please.

[lemon]

hi folks...

well about 7 years ago i had an accident out on the bangna-trad highway which basically consisted of me falling off my motorbike at around 70mph...i was injured but not badly - mostly just cuts and bruises and a bang on the head - the strap of my helmet broke and it fell off during the crash...it was after a teaching job at one of the industrial factories around there and luckily for me, as i was pretty dazed and confused the po dtek dteung arrived very sharpish and took me home, along with the remains of my bike which they had managed to haul up into the back of the pickup...

well i'd just like to say that i'm extemely grateful to them for that night cos without them there was no way i'd have got home that night and certainly would have lost the bike as it could not have been pushed after that accident...nothing was stolen from me - and lets face it - a farang with concussion would probably be considered a prime target if they were of a mind to take something...

so pls don't give these guys a hard time - they are performing a valuable service in the only way they know how...

[Tony Clifton]

Picture 2 planes colliding at the airport, doesn't matter which one. Now, what kind of circus would that turn out to be with this improvised emergency service lacking uniformity in training? Maybe you prefer the old "It hasn't happened yet, so why the need? We'd simply stick hundreds of dead and injured in the back of rusty pick-up trucks and have tetanos shots ready for them once we find a hospital since we're not from the area and all have our own different dispatchers, if any."

My point is, it may be a third world country but if you can afford to build highways all over the country as they have, Skytrain, subway, huge shopping malls, planned mega projects, you've obviously missed somewhere, be it driver education, worker's safety, adequate emergency services should have also been planned along . What you're seeing now is not even basic, it's improvised and uncoordinated with all these different groups not cooperating.

I'm not giving these people a hard time, it's the government that's to blame.

As for doing my share, that's already taken care of.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[Lacoste]

so pls don't give these guys a hard time - they are performing a valuable service in the only way they know how...

I agree, i find the title of the thread to be quite offensive and disrespectful towards them. Then again as i said before, hardly breaking news as it was writen FIVE YEARS AGO.

[shotover]

. . . Fights over corpses do not happen anymore in Bangkok since about 15 years, when the authorities and the two main rival organisations have sorted out territories and shifts. Nowadays Por Teck Tueng and Ruamkatanyu work on alternating days.

Things aren't perfect, of course. There are at times territorial fights happening. But one has to understand that the volonteers of the foundation have to have a certain amount of respect on the streets. These volonteers do have to pull dead and injured from the roughest neighborhoods in town, if people there don't fear them, their work cannot be performed because of the danger of being attacked by the gangs.

I don't understand how just 'respect' serves as a basis for these charitable organizations to fight each other for 'territory'. It seems that fighting over territory would cause them to lose much more respect than working together for the benefit of the neighborhoods.

Are these 2 organizations only supported by donations?

Do they ever request compensation from victims or their families?

I have no idea, so that's why I am asking. Money seems to be a much more logical reason for territorial disputes than respect.

[meom]

I'm not giving these people a hard time, it's the government that's to blame.

I don't understand why you want to blame anybody in the first place. It's just the way things have developed here and believing Colpyat there's a lot of improvement in comparison to the past.

[Cigarette Burn]

I found it interesting that the original auther, Thomas Crampton,

was not credited and that the date had been changed from January 29th 2002 to 2006-08-26.

Original article http://www.iht.com/articles/2002/01/29/bodies_ed3_.php

[ColPyat]

I don't understand how just 'respect' serves as a basis for these charitable organizations to fight each other for 'territory'. It seems that fighting over territory would cause them to lose much more respect than working together for the benefit of the neighborhoods.

Are these 2 organizations only supported by donations?

Do they ever request compensation from victims or their families?

I have no idea, so that's why I am asking. Money seems to be a much more logical reason for territorial disputes than respect.

No, they are not supposed to ask for compensation fom victims and their families for their services within the limits of their duties, or to solicit donations (donations though are accepted when not solicited).

If they do, what can happen at times, they are in violation of the rules and will be thrown out of their foundation.

Where some though do ask for compensation, is when assisting families in the paperwork, organisation and transport of corpses to their homes, temples or home provinces. This though is not part of their duty as volonteers, and a seperate business transaction.

The organisations are mainly supported by donations, receive though also moneys from hospitals. Important to note is that the volonteers do not receive any money from these donations and moneys paid from hospitals - those funds are used by the headquarters.

In some instances a few volonteer groups make deals with particular hospitals to receive money for injured they bring to them. This though is against the rules, and generally frowned upon, and when found out cracked down by the headquarters of the foundations.

The whole thing is a very complex issue. For a starter, the single groups are relatively independent, and of course you will have a few very rotten ones as well. Most though are honestly trying to do good.

As to occasional territorial fights, they are for many reasons, generally not though over money. They can be started by groups overstepping their boudaries and picking up injured in territories not their own. Rescue volonteers are responsible for their own territories, and have to know who picks up which injured and sends them to which hospital. At times fake rescue pick up injured, rob them, and leave them at some hospital. This will inevitably lead to accusations that the real rescue has done that. When those sort of groups are caught in the act, then they will usually be trashed.

And many of those territorial fights are about honor and respect, because that is more or less the only thing these volonteers get as a reward.

People should not forget that Thailand can be a very violent society, in which conflicts are solved by violent means. I do not condone this, but given the corruption of law enforcement and courts it is understandable why people here take matters in their own hands.

This is not a developed country by far, and many things simply cannot be judged within the parameters of a developed country. Just because romanticaly inclined westerners (and Thais) do mistake this place with a Bhuddist paradise does not mean that this is actually so.

These volonteers have to operate more often than not in the badlands of a developing country with all its social problems, and have to make the best out of it. And that often means that, in order to do their job and be as safe as possible they have to be feared by some very bad people usually found in those badlands. Gangkids do not respect you for just being a nice guy...

For everything there are logical reasons, only though you cannot apply the same logic from a developed western background to the situation here in Thailand.

[ColPyat]

What you're seeing now is not even basic, it's improvised and uncoordinated with all these different groups not cooperating.

I'm not giving these people a hard time, it's the government that's to blame.

As for doing my share, that's already taken care of.

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong.

What you are seeing in Bangkok and suburbs are rescue volonteers that are responsible for clearly marked territories, that have clear shifts of responsibility, that have to radio in every step they make, names of injured, which hospitals they are sent, when they go on duty, and when they go off duty. Volonteers that get regular training courses, who work together with police, have radios, etc.

This is far more than "improvised" and "uncoordinated".

Maybe you should ask your local team if you could ride with them for a few nights, and get some firsthand experience of how things work here.

[sriracha john]

It's a fine line between whether they are doing more harm with improper handling of accident victims, which is understandable given their lack of training, and the quicker delivery time to a medical facility compared to no one taking them there. Whereas the potential for further damage inflicted by their snatch-and-grab transport technique is quite real... so is the potential for further damage by NOT being transported at all.

As this is, indeed, a developing country, perhaps the government and private business should focus more on these basic infrastructure services rather than throwing money at things like a yet another new shopping center or some unneeded road construction in the middle of nowhere for a favored politician. It's difficult to throw out words like developing country or 3rd world country at Thailand when they spent billions erecting such nonsense as Siam Paragon (in the case of private business spending) and a billion + on PM's Air Force One (in the case of governement spending).

Diverting some of the unprecedented levels of current corruption into such things as primary education and EMS training would go a long way to helping improve this country tremendously.

[Tony Clifton]

What you're seeing now is not even basic, it's improvised and uncoordinated with all these different groups not cooperating.

I'm not giving these people a hard time, it's the government that's to blame.

As for doing my share, that's already taken care of.

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong.

What you are seeing in Bangkok and suburbs are rescue volonteers that are responsible for clearly marked territories, that have clear shifts of responsibility, that have to radio in every step they make, names of injured, which hospitals they are sent, when they go on duty, and when they go off duty. Volonteers that get regular training courses, who work together with police, have radios, etc.

This is far more than "improvised" and "uncoordinated".

Maybe you should ask your local team if you could ride with them for a few nights, and get some firsthand experience of how things work here.

Cool! I can stick half my body out the window and blow the whistle while we're driving at insane speeds

[ColPyat]

It's a fine line between whether they are doing more harm with improper handling of accident victims, which is understandable given their lack of training, and the quicker delivery time to a medical facility compared to no one taking them there. Whereas the potential for further damage inflicted by their snatch-and-grab transport technique is quite real... so is the potential for further damage by NOT being transported at all.

As this is, indeed, a developing country, perhaps the government and private business should focus more on these basic infrastructure services rather than throwing money at things like a yet another new shopping center or some unneeded road construction in the middle of nowhere for a favored politician. It's difficult to throw out words like developing country or 3rd world country at Thailand when they spent billions erecting such nonsense as Siam Paragon (in the case of private business spending) and a billion + on PM's Air Force One (in the case of governement spending).

Diverting some of the unprecedented levels of current corruption into such things as primary education and EMS training would go a long way to helping improve this country tremendously.

It is not exactly a "snatch and grab" technique.

Volonteers arriving at the scene do make a first assesment. According to this they decide the measures to be taken with the injured. That can be simply loading the injured on the back of their trucks after quick stabilisation measures such as splinting fractures, and applying bandages to open wounds, or, in serious but not extremely urgent cases calling one of the Por Teck Tueng ambulances that are the best available amulances in Thailand, staffed with doctors from the best hospitals (volonteers as well). In life threatening cases naturally priority is given to the quickest transport to the closest hospital possible.

The regular volonteers are by law forbidden to do any further measures such as for example giving IV saline solutions as shoc treatment. Their training is constantly improved.

Sign of a developing country is more often than not misallocation of funds, as opposed to an underdeveloped country that simply does not have the funds available.

I have personally tried to persuade several large foreign companies here in Thailand to make direct donations of equipment to the rescue teams, which were not given. Basically, it seems to be not just the Thai government that has a lack of understanding for the need of an improved EMS system, but companies and their CEOs from developed countries operating and making vast profits here in Thailand as well.

Apart from that, not all is nice and shiny with western EMS organisations as well. During the tsunami i had good opportunity to observe how several big and well known organisations have snatched injured from hospitals without even informing the treating doctors, who have fought over the last not flown out injured westerners still in hospitals in the region. Other foreign teams have more or less acted on orders of corporations from their homeland - only searched for corpses from company employees, and have not assisted in the general search for corpses at all.

This was rather sobering.

I am sure though that those western organisations are far less welcoming to the media in observing their work, unlike the Por Teck Tueng and the Ruamkatanyu who are generally very open to the medias even though the majority of articles only consist of outdated information and repetition of rumors.

[ColPyat]

Maybe you should ask your local team if you could ride with them for a few nights, and get some firsthand experience of how things work here.

Cool! I can stick half my body out the window and blow the whistle while we're driving at insane speeds

Very droll.

Yes, you can do that if you have a need to blow a whistle.

And afterwards you might be able to make a few informed posts on discussions such as these.

Edited August 27, 2006 by ColPyat

[Tony Clifton]

Maybe you should ask your local team if you could ride with them for a few nights, and get some firsthand experience of how things work here.

Cool! I can stick half my body out the window and blow the whistle while we're driving at insane speeds

Very droll.

Yes, you can do that if you have a need to blow a whistle.

And afterwards you might be able to make a few informed posts on discussions such as these.

Nothing "droll" about it, that's how it's done at this end of the expressway.

[sonnyJ]

ColPyat. I think some people here are just critisising the government not being able to do better job, that goes to the tsunami handling too. I was witnessing it at KhaoLak and it was terrible. How can they improve without critisism? And why should foreign country have to do all their work to get foreign bodies out? It's simply can do but don't know how attitude here, as we all know.

[sriracha john]

It's a fine line between whether they are doing more harm with improper handling of accident victims, which is understandable given their lack of training, and the quicker delivery time to a medical facility compared to no one taking them there. Whereas the potential for further damage inflicted by their snatch-and-grab transport technique is quite real... so is the potential for further damage by NOT being transported at all.

As this is, indeed, a developing country, perhaps the government and private business should focus more on these basic infrastructure services rather than throwing money at things like a yet another new shopping center or some unneeded road construction in the middle of nowhere for a favored politician. It's difficult to throw out words like developing country or 3rd world country at Thailand when they spent billions erecting such nonsense as Siam Paragon (in the case of private business spending) and a billion + on PM's Air Force One (in the case of governement spending).

Diverting some of the unprecedented levels of current corruption into such things as primary education and EMS training would go a long way to helping improve this country tremendously.

It is not exactly a "snatch and grab" technique.

Volonteers arriving at the scene do make a first assesment. According to this they decide the measures to be taken with the injured. That can be simply loading the injured on the back of their trucks after quick stabilisation measures such as splinting fractures, and applying bandages to open wounds, or, in serious but not extremely urgent cases calling one of the Por Teck Tueng ambulances that are the best available amulances in Thailand, staffed with doctors from the best hospitals (volonteers as well). In life threatening cases naturally priority is given to the quickest transport to the closest hospital possible.

The regular volonteers are by law forbidden to do any further measures such as for example giving IV saline solutions as shoc treatment. Their training is constantly improved.

Sign of a developing country is more often than not misallocation of funds, as opposed to an underdeveloped country that simply does not have the funds available.

I have personally tried to persuade several large foreign companies here in Thailand to make direct donations of equipment to the rescue teams, which were not given. Basically, it seems to be not just the Thai government that has a lack of understanding for the need of an improved EMS system, but companies and their CEOs from developed countries operating and making vast profits here in Thailand as well.

Apart from that, not all is nice and shiny with western EMS organisations as well. During the tsunami i had good opportunity to observe how several big and well known organisations have snatched injured from hospitals without even informing the treating doctors, who have fought over the last not flown out injured westerners still in hospitals in the region. Other foreign teams have more or less acted on orders of corporations from their homeland - only searched for corpses from company employees, and have not assisted in the general search for corpses at all.

This was rather sobering.

I am sure though that those western organisations are far less welcoming to the media in observing their work, unlike the Por Teck Tueng and the Ruamkatanyu who are generally very open to the medias even though the majority of articles only consist of outdated information and repetition of rumors.

Not being a resident of BKK itself, my comments weren't really meant to describe the Por Tek Tung there itself... but at the similar organizations that one sees in the cities outside of BKK and they are for the most part, snatch and grabbers... with obviously little more training than, "You grab his arms and I'll get his feet" method of moving a patient. It's understandable that without training, this is what they're going to end up doing. Likewise, the vehicles used are nothing more than pick-up trucks with no other equipment to speak of. Their only objective is to get the patient from the scene of any accident to the hospital as quickly as possible, with little regard for what happens in between.

Due to the gross misallocation of the funds that are available in Thailand, it would make it a developing country as opposed to an undeveloped country.... and it's actually more sad in that regard. To not have the money is one thing, but to have the money and squander it on some politician's pet project is quite another.

Western EMS services operating in the West are a whole different ballgame. Again, not being an on-site witness to their activities here during the post-tsunami, I can't really comment on their activities here in the East, other than to say being out of their element and out of their country, it's easily understandable that things might not have always gone well as they would have in the West.

[ColPyat]

ColPyat. I think some people here are just critisising the government not being able to do better job, that goes to the tsunami handling too. I was witnessing it at KhaoLak and it was terrible. How can they improve without critisism? And why should foreign country have to do all their work to get foreign bodies out? It's simply can do but don't know how attitude here, as we all know.

Please don't misunderstand me - i do not defend the government(s) of Thailand at all. I just try to explain why things are as they are, and here concentrate more on the Por Teck Tueng foundation and their work than complaining about boneheaded politicians.

Yes, been in Khao Lak as well, Por Teck Tueng and affiliated groups were responsible for the corpses there - it were terrible conditions. Not many people are aware that during the first four days there were only about 200 rescue volonteers for the whole Pangnga province available, no army, no police, insufficient food.

And in this condition it was rather ironic when foreign organisations were there but did nothing else than getting corpses out from employees of some multinational corporations and did not assist the Thai organisations in getting corpses out.

[ColPyat]

Not being a resident of BKK itself, my comments weren't really meant to describe the Por Tek Tung there itself... but at the similar organizations that one sees in the cities outside of BKK and they are for the most part, snatch and grabbers... with obviously little more training than, "You grab his arms and I'll get his feet" method of moving a patient. It's understandable that without training, this is what they're going to end up doing. Likewise, the vehicles used are nothing more than pick-up trucks with no other equipment to speak of. Their only objective is to get the patient from the scene of any accident to the hospital as quickly as possible, with little regard for what happens in between.

True, upcountry the situation is definately very different than in Bangkok. Things are slowly improving though, not due to government efforts, but because rich foundations like the Por Teck Tueng do support upcountry foundations with money, equipment and training. I hope that in a few year's time things will have improved.

But don't wait for governments and politicians to improve things - i am afraid that this will not happen, as they seem to put more importance on fighting over power.

[sonnyJ]

Yes, been in Khao Lak as well, Por Teck Tueng and affiliated groups were responsible for the corpses there - it were terrible conditions. Not many people are aware that during the first four days there were only about 200 rescue volonteers for the whole Pangnga province available, no army, no police, insufficient food.

And in this condition it was rather ironic when foreign organisations were there but did nothing else than getting corpses out from employees of some multinational corporations and did not assist the Thai organisations in getting corpses out.

I think everybody was doing their primary job there. Only saw it after 1 week though. I was with TTT, Tow Tow Tow, or what ever it's called in thai. Nice fast flight on military from Bangkok to phuket, Norwegian donated spring water from Iceland, great accommodation on the few surviving resorts on Khao Lak, and then nothing much to do at the scene. They told me to go eat some free food when I tried to help. You had to find your own way over there to get something prioritised/useful.

Then we decided to take more observational role and go donate stuff like redbull, mamas and water to villagers. Play with the kids at school. And after got back to the truck, someone had stolen all of our supplies.. Well maybe the foreign workers, maybe not. But I can say they were mishandled, the minorities. I could go on and on..

Edited August 27, 2006 by sonnyJ

[ColPyat]

I think everybody was doing their primary job there. Only saw it after 1 week though. I was with TTT, Tow Tow Tow, or what ever it's called in thai. Nice fast flight on military from Bangkok to phuket, Norwegian donated spring water from Iceland, great accommodation on the few surviving resorts on Khao Lak, and then nothing much to do at the scene. They told me to go eat some free food when I tried to help. You had to find your own way over there to get something prioritised/useful.

Been there the first four days after the tsunami. We stayed in some monks quarters in Wat Yan Yao, next to the corpses. Slept not more than 8 hours during my whole stay there. Occasional styro boxes with rice and something.

Corpses everywhere on the beaches and often up to three kilometers inland. Lorries and pick up trucks full with corpses waiting to unload at the temple. Incredible chaos. Never gonna forget that.

[sriracha john]

Not being a resident of BKK itself, my comments weren't really meant to describe the Por Tek Tung there itself... but at the similar organizations that one sees in the cities outside of BKK and they are for the most part, snatch and grabbers... with obviously little more training than, "You grab his arms and I'll get his feet" method of moving a patient. It's understandable that without training, this is what they're going to end up doing. Likewise, the vehicles used are nothing more than pick-up trucks with no other equipment to speak of. Their only objective is to get the patient from the scene of any accident to the hospital as quickly as possible, with little regard for what happens in between.

True, upcountry the situation is definately very different than in Bangkok. Things are slowly improving though, not due to government efforts, but because rich foundations like the Por Teck Tueng do support upcountry foundations with money, equipment and training. I hope that in a few year's time things will have improved.

But don't wait for governments and politicians to improve things - i am afraid that this will not happen, as they seem to put more importance on fighting over power.

Having seen no improvements at all over the last 7 years, I'm not holding my breath waiting for changes to occur.

Would love to have helped provide EMT training to some of the local organizations, but alas, without a work permit, I'm prohibited from doing so, and no one to sponsor it, it's a no go.

Can only hope that my encouraging the local citizenry to begin to insist on some degree of accountability from the government is my best option...

[sonnyJ]

Been there the first four days after the tsunami. We stayed in some monks quarters in Wat Yan Yao, next to the corpses. Slept not more than 8 hours during my whole stay there. Occasional styro boxes with rice and something.

Corpses everywhere on the beaches and often up to three kilometers inland. Lorries and pick up trucks full with corpses waiting to unload at the temple. Incredible chaos. Never gonna forget that.

Yes same temple. Was a chaos indeed. Maybe we should get back to the topic now.

[ColPyat]

Would love to have helped provide EMT training to some of the local organizations, but alas, without a work permit, I'm prohibited from doing so, and no one to sponsor it, it's a no go.

Nobody would care about a workpermit in this situation.

The foundations are generally run and supported by locally very influental people, and no cop would arrest you for giving training to volonteers.

[sriracha john]

Would love to have helped provide EMT training to some of the local organizations, but alas, without a work permit, I'm prohibited from doing so, and no one to sponsor it, it's a no go.

Nobody would care about a workpermit in this situation.

The foundations are generally run and supported by locally very influental people, and no cop would arrest you for giving training to volonteers.

" I " would care about a work permit in this or any other work situation.

Sorry, but there is far too much at stake to chance it... same as any other volunteer position I've had to either stop doing or decline to start. The slightest whim by the lowest person in the hierarchy and things can come crashing down to an screeching halt. It's certainly regrettable state of affairs, but one I am legally-bound to follow, irregardless of whether or not it makes sense or the local higher ups are aware of it and support it, which they did in my previous volunteering, which I have since ceased doing.

It's a ludicrous situation, but then.... that's how the government wants it and we have to live with it.

.... for now, anyway.

Edited August 27, 2006 by sriracha john

[Suzy]

My son was 'picked up' by this organisation after being seriously hurt in a motorcyle accident. By the time he reached the hospital, his shoes, wallet, watch and gold chain had all dissappeared. This left the hospital unable to contact me until he was in a fit condition to communicate. This took three days.

When they come scrounging to my door for money they get a very short two word anser. **** off!

Sorry to hear what happened to your son.

But, the ones who committed the theft might not have been the Por Teck Tueng volonteers, could have been bystanders who arrived at the scene first, or, if happened in the suburbs, fake rescue teams.

The Por Teck Tueng does not scrounge for money at people's homes, the volonteers are strictly forbidden to ask for donations. Donations are made directly in the headquarters, or during their festivals. The donations are not given to the volonteers, neither in money nor in equippment.

The groups you see begging at people's homes (sometimes even with a smelly corpse in their trucks) are fake groups, that have repeatadly been exposed on television as such.

This accident happened in Bangkok and the police confirmed that at least he had shoes on when put in the back of the pickup. The hospital confirmed all items missing upon arrival.

They regularly call at my house scrounging for donations and have their pick up parked outside the house. It is not a fake. They have a card printed on one side in Thai and the other side in bad English announcing who they are and they they are seeking donations. They wear their identity cards to prove who they are and what they are doing.

[ColPyat]

This accident happened in Bangkok and the police confirmed that at least he had shoes on when put in the back of the pickup. The hospital confirmed all items missing upon arrival.

They regularly call at my house scrounging for donations and have their pick up parked outside the house. It is not a fake. They have a card printed on one side in Thai and the other side in bad English announcing who they are and they they are seeking donations. They wear their identity cards to prove who they are and what they are doing.

Then they are most definately not Por Teck Tueng. Por Teck Tueng volonteers are strictly forbidden to solicit donations. If they in fact are Por Teck Tueng, you can note down their license plates, names, and whatever is on their "identity cards" and complain at the headquarters. But make sure that they are Por Teck Tueng, and not one of the fake groups known to solicit money at people's homes.

Are you sure that you do not confuse the ones who solicit money with genuine Por Teck Tueng volonteers? There are hundreds of foundations existing in Thailand, and the ones who solicit money are usually fake foundations. They have solicited in front of my house as well, and stopped coming by when i told them that i was with the Por Teck Tueng.

Many Thais call all the foundations summarily "Por Teck Tueng" as it is the oldest and largest foundation in Thailand.

Shoes often get lost during transport or in the hospital. Priority generally is given to the care of the injured and not his shoes. Id cards and such are generally given care as this is very important during hospital admission. It happens often that when somebody has no ID cards that hospital refuse admission, and volonteers have to shop around trying to find a hospital that admits sometimes severly injured people. Not very nice.

Por Teck Tueng volonteers have to radio in the names of every injured, where and when the accident happened, have to identify themselves at the hospitals, where their identifications are noted down.

I am not saying that the robbery did not happen, but there are many possibilities, only one of them is that genuine Por Teck Tueng volonteers did it. Are you sure that the ones who picked your son up were genuine Por Teck Tueng volonteers, and not from another organisation?

Police is not unknown to steal possession of victims as well.

[Plus]

It's volunteers, Colpyat, with "u", not volOnteers. You've been misspelling it for four pages already, I'm afraid you don't correct yourself, it will become fossilised.

Other than that I have nothing to add, I admit.

Welcome back. Making new friends? Tony Clifton is in your bad books for shooting his mouth already?

[ColPyat]

It's volunteers, Colpyat, with "u", not volOnteers. You've been misspelling it for four pages already, I'm afraid you don't correct yourself, it will become fossilised.

Other than that I have nothing to add, I admit.

Welcome back. Making new friends? Tony Clifton is in your bad books for shooting his mouth already?

I am not that sort of back - it's just a topic that is very dear to me, for obvious reasons.

Nobody is in my "bad books", it's just anonymous posters on an internet board, of whom most i will never meet in real life.

Inane drivel, useless blathering and illinformed romours though and the insisting on spreading of those will get the answer they deserve. Well, unless i am getting tired of the resulting childish arguments, and just retreat.

And as to my spelling - it's already fossilised, i have to admit. I don't care that much either, English is anyhow not my first language.

Edited August 28, 2006 by ColPyat