Employers - what are they thinking?!?

[WonnabeBiker]

Saw a full time position in a town I like - but 20 k?

Another school has been trying to tempt me with a $ 900 offer in a neighboring country (where Filipinos get better deals than that, like $ 800 plus a hotel room paid worth $ 300). When I politely hinted at the salary being on the low side, they started arguing with low cost of living etc. Can't help thinking this is decidedly odd.

Have you encountered a HR Dept. and staff trying to convince you to accept a low ball offer?

[Rhys]

yes....standard operating procedure with some of HR managers......this is not the place for you. move on..

[NeverSure]

Rule #1 in negotiating is that the first person to mention a price loses. They've already done that. Rather than tell them it's too low (loss of face many places) tell them straight up how much you need. If they won't do it they lose you and you lose nothing.

Cheers.

PS Rule #2 is to always make a counteroffer. "The answer is always 'no' until you ask."

Edited March 17, 2015 by NeverSure

[Puyai]

20 k is taking the piss. I know a school in Uthaithani paying 25 k on a 10 month contract. Pm me if your interested.

[aarontendo]

25k and a 10 month contract? Hot diggity where do I sign up for this once in a lifetime opportunity?

[lostinisaan]

20 k is taking the piss. I know a school in Uthaithani paying 25 k on a 10 month contract. Pm me if your interested.

You gotta be seriously kidding here. 250 K in one year?

The OP would make 240 K when receiving a 12 months salary. Hope you don't teach math.

I'm on around 400 K a year and it's never enough.

Many of them only try, but would go up to a certain amount. The interview at my former school was insane. Even showing them that I made 36.5 K at my job before, they offered me 20 K.

Finally signed up for 25K as it was at the end of the first term and a 12 months contract was offered.

My current school even topped them, by offering me 25. The best is to politely stand up and leave.

If they really want you they'll say, please wait..........

OP, will soon offer you some jobs. Let me know where your preferable area is.

Edited March 18, 2015 by lostinisaan

[casualbiker]

25k ........... Salaries for teachers are actually going down and paperwork requirements are going up..cost of living going up.... Stupid, stupid.... !

[aarontendo]

Eh but 25k is pretty good for some nationalities, which is what is what this market will entirely become in the next couple of years. Fun times pack those bags, boys.

[WonnabeBiker]

http://www.ajarn.com/recruitment/browse_jobs/Thailand/112023.html Is it a trick to appeal to female applicants? Respond to "[email protected]"

I've seen job ads where schools required NES with education degrees, offering 20 k.

Then there are some people working in HR who are afraid to speak English. They ask for one's Skype name and then send a daily <Hello>. Never to hold a job interview. Which explains why there is usually one teacher at a school who is chosen to do all the calling. Those teachers often hire folks without asking a single professional question. The photo is vital AFAIK

[aarontendo]

This sort of thing pretty much sums it up here. The whole place is a disaster from top to bottom in education. Go through all the trouble to write the advert, ask for professionals with x years of experience, MBA, etc.

Then sign off as loverboy...awesome. This is the one that will be interviewing and evaluating your demo lesson.

[inzman]

Virtually any teaching job in Thailand will pay 32k. Don't ever accept less.

[HooHaa]

just shy of 26k was the norm 15-20 years ago. not sure how you lot manage.

[aarontendo]

just shy of 26k was the norm 15-20 years ago. not sure how you lot manage.

Going native and sticking their head in the sand in regards to retirement, I reckon

[aidenai]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

[Rhys]

and.. and.. and.. if you are a relative.. it is 50K

[lostinisaan]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

Dude, even when I like to read each and every post of yours, I have to disagree on that one.

Just from my experience given an estimate offer to applicants when seeking "teachers, coming from my former director.

15 to 18 K for Africans.

17 to 25 K for Filipinos.

16 to 28 K for "European white faced :teachers".

25 to 37 K for NES teachers.

In my ten years working at Thai schools, I guess I've interviewed at least 1000 "applicants." Not something you'd really want to do.

I wasted my time and money to make phone calls after phone calls, just to receive a cry for help to send an unknown American 20 K, as he " a sort of ran out of money in Pattaya". But he did promise me to pay it back, once he received his first salary. I just deleted his e-mail and phone number and blocked both.

Some African "Super teachers" got really loud and jelled at me on the phone, because I said we'd call them back.

: " Whai ya no coul bakk?" I wok goot. I a teecha, etc...

It's time to "create a Foreign Teacher Association". Please laugh about me, but that's in my opinion the only way to solve certain problems.

When you read the shit that happens to so many people on daily basis, it's time for a change.

The school directors I know don't want anymore Filipinos, nor their darker counterparts.

And the rules and regulations we all have to go through should also apply for all the backpacking agency folks, including the bunch of criminals they've employed.

No racism, please. And the victims of all that bs are- as usual- the kids.

[Puyai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

25k and a 10 month contract? Hot diggity where do I sign up for this once in a lifetime opportunity?

Yep, it's a great deal!

I was working at this school, but I was earning 35,000 on a 12 month contract. The end of last term I left and so did a few others. The director had to find 5 new teachers. He did this by using a well known TEFL institute up north. These new teachers were graduates from a TEFL course, in their first year of teaching.

Obviously the director now thinks 25,000 is the norm and he was paying well over the odds before!

They have 1 African teacher there (nice guy but........) and he is earning considerably more than the new teachers! He also gets paid 12 months.

This school has an MEP programme with fees of 35,000 Baht a year. They have 2 classes of some grades with 40 students in some classes. The school is the nicest looking government school I have ever seen. Brand new buildings, wall (only on the front of the school), grand gates, a nice football pitch, covered outdoor area, beautiful outdoor study areas, more flowers than Chelsea Flower Show, the directors office looks like Obamas and so on.....

No one should ever settle for that sort of money. There are plenty of jobs out there offering decent money.

[SoilSpoil]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

Yes that was the standard range in 2001

[WonnabeBiker]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

Dude, even when I like to read each and every post of yours, I have to disagree on that one.

Just from my experience given an estimate offer to applicants when seeking "teachers, coming from my former director.

15 to 18 K for Africans.

17 to 25 K for Filipinos.

16 to 28 K for "European white faced :teachers".

25 to 37 K for NES teachers.

In my ten years working at Thai schools, I guess I've interviewed at least 1000 "applicants." Not something you'd really want to do.

I wasted my time and money to make phone calls after phone calls, just to receive a cry for help to send an unknown American 20 K, as he " a sort of ran out of money in Pattaya". But he did promise me to pay it back, once he received his first salary. I just deleted his e-mail and phone number and blocked both.

Some African "Super teachers" got really loud and jelled at me on the phone, because I said we'd call them back.

: " Whai ya no coul bakk?" I wok goot. I a teecha, etc...

It's time to "create a Foreign Teacher Association". Please laugh about me, but that's in my opinion the only way to solve certain problems.

When you read the shit that happens to so many people on daily basis, it's time for a change.

The school directors I know don't want anymore Filipinos, nor their darker counterparts. Really?!?

And the rules and regulations we all have to go through should also apply for all the backpacking agency folks, including the bunch of criminals they've employed.

No racism, please. And the victims of all that bs are- as usual- the kids.

"The school directors I know don't want anymore Filipinos, nor their darker counterparts." I would respectfully disagree, blaming recent trends on directors' greed or cost driven considerations.

Q: government schools don't get equal funding?

* Some charge parents nothing. Others charge 300 B or 700 B per year "for the foreign teachers".

Q: what lets directors want to save on foreign teachers' salaries? A: i. because the Mercedes Fund needs contributions. ii. There are other things seen as more important than a teacher who can speak English like a NES iii. (your answer here)

[SlyAnimal]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

Yes that was the standard range in 2001

From what I gather, it hasn't really changed a lot since then.

Although of course some schools pay better, and for Europeans/NES a range would have probably stifled a few argumentative posts (e.g. European 25-30k & NES 25-35k with a little more if able to teach science/maths).

But then, everyone will see variations depending on what region they live in, as it's all about supply and demand. The supply of teachers has continued to increase, and so despite increased living costs, the salaries for Foreign English teachers haven't really increased in the past 10-15 years (Based on what numerous people have told me, since I only moved to Thailand 5 years ago).

[lostinisaan]

15-20k for Filipinos

20-25k for Africans

27k for European

30k for native speakers of English

Yes that was the standard range in 2001

From what I gather, it hasn't really changed a lot since then.

Although of course some schools pay better, and for Europeans/NES a range would have probably stifled a few argumentative posts (e.g. European 25-30k & NES 25-35k with a little more if able to teach science/maths).

But then, everyone will see variations depending on what region they live in, as it's all about supply and demand. The supply of teachers has continued to increase, and so despite increased living costs, the salaries for Foreign English teachers haven't really increased in the past 10-15 years (Based on what numerous people have told me, since I only moved to Thailand 5 years ago).

A well "established" Anuban in the lower northeast paid their foreign teachers a starting salary of 25 K, plus a ticket to their country of origin at the end of the year in 2005.

Once the director had to leave, because she "ginn tang maak". took too much money away, a competing catholic school started to hire Filipino teachers and paid them 10 K.

When the new director and his Kathoey coordinator heard that, the promised 25 K melted down, just a few days before school started, to between 15 and 20 K, without a plane ticket at the end of the year.

That was about the same time when the first contracts with agencies were signed and all went a sort of downhill.

What employers are thinking?

They know that there're plenty of guys of different nationalities, willing to work for less money, so why should they start to drive a smaller car?

Ten years ago a full tank for my pick up was about 650 baht, now it's about 2 K.

Then try to rent a little shag that was 1 K ten years ago and you'll be surprised when they want 3 K for it. Do they really think?

Edited March 25, 2015 by lostinisaan

[cgphuket]

I had an interview at an "international University" just on the edge of BKK Near DM airport).. They required a NES, Master degree, 3 years experience at university level. Pay? 25k. When I told them that's less than a backpacker makes at a storefront language school they quickly ended the interview...

[WonnabeBiker]

If you know how to look pretty (as required in this ad here http://www.ajarn.com/recruitment/browse_jobs/Thailand/111950.html?popup=1 ) getting 21,000 Baht as a Filipina will be easy

I've seen ads limiting the applicant's age to 30. Maybe they will ad six-pack abs a bonus?

[lostinisaan]

I had an interview at an "international University" just on the edge of BKK Near DM airport).. They required a NES, Master degree, 3 years experience at university level. Pay? 25k. When I told them that's less than a backpacker makes at a storefront language school they quickly ended the interview...

When will you start?.......

[WonnabeBiker]

Today, I asked a Thai speaker to call the school regarding my contract. The answer? I was blamed for somehow losing (embezzling? stealing?) it. Get real! That contract had been part of the paperwork for i. the B-Visa, ii. the TCT's waiver and iii. the WP. iv. if hR really "lost" that contract, they should print it once again and ask every one to sign it.

My university degree cost thousands of Baht including DHL overnight service. and it hasn't been returned either.

Seems we need to ask for signed receipts bearing the school's seal before we can hand over original documents?!

[lostinisaan]

Today, I asked a Thai speaker to call the school regarding my contract. The answer? I was blamed for somehow losing (embezzling? stealing?) it. Get real! That contract had been part of the paperwork for i. the B-Visa, ii. the TCT's waiver and iii. the WP. iv. if hR really "lost" that contract, they should print it once again and ask every one to sign it.

My university degree cost thousands of Baht including DHL overnight service. and it hasn't been returned either.

Seems we need to ask for signed receipts bearing the school's seal before we can hand over original documents?!

You and your lifetime experience degrees.....

P.S. Had a short chat with our miscoordiator today. All our Thai teachers HAVE to stay at a temple for three days. My contract, visa etc..runs out on the 30th of April. Turned out that ma damm will be in Rayong this time.

Trying to get all sorted out next week. What are they thinking? No mention of my promised pay raise so far......

Edited March 25, 2015 by lostinisaan

[SlyAnimal]

You should still have plenty of time if they're only in Rayong for 3 days, as some of the Admin staff should still be around at school during April, with not much to do, so should be able to process your documents.

And bad luck with your degree Wannabebiker, I don't think my one has ever even left my house unless within my personal possession, as I don't really trust anyone else with it since I know how lousy the school is with documents (My contract has been misplaced a few times). I've taken my degree to immigration/DoL a few times, but they've never asked to see it, my photocopy was always sufficient (Admittedly, it was a colour photocopy, so perhaps they thought I wanted to give them a signed original to keep as a souvenir lol).

[lostinisaan]

You should still have plenty of time if they're only in Rayong for 3 days, as some of the Admin staff should still be around at school during April, with not much to do, so should be able to process your documents.

And bad luck with your degree Wannabebiker, I don't think my one has ever even left my house unless within my personal possession, as I don't really trust anyone else with it since I know how lousy the school is with documents (My contract has been misplaced a few times). I've taken my degree to immigration/DoL a few times, but they've never asked to see it, my photocopy was always sufficient (Admittedly, it was a colour photocopy, so perhaps they thought I wanted to give them a signed original to keep as a souvenir lol).

Whenever I give the Immigration, Khurusapha or the DOL a copy of my marriage certificate, they always tell me that they do not need the original.

A good printer makes any forms, including a CV look pretty good. Then they might not even take a look at my mizzpelaedfs woerdssz. .

P.S. That's basically how the educational system in Thailand works. Or not. Or both.-

[WonnabeBiker]

Have you ever been gobsmacked?

My school's clever HR lady claims they "lost" my contract.

They got many photocopiers (and have shown little restraint when it comes to violating copyrights; but then, is there a single government computer running a legal version of Windows?). They got a stamp to verify a true copy. And they got lots of helpers, including secretaries and xx unpaid students from the university.

This lady thinks this was the ultimate arguement to end all discussions.

[attrayant]

The school directors I know don't want anymore Filipinos, nor their darker counterparts.

When they ask my to help recruit, I'm told basically the same thing. No Asian "looking" people, no dark skinned people.

But us "western looking" teachers are going to start expiring in the next few years due to no more TL waivers, and we're certainly not going to sink money into an Ed. Degree just to keep a measly 30-40k thankless job.

Something's got to snap soon; I'm just not sure what.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Scott