Thai former PM Yingluck to face trial over rice scheme: court

[Thai at Heart]

It is my experience BAAC contracts to buy rice from many producers directly

Your comment might suggest the producers received at least 750 billion

750 billion intended to reach the producer - right?

Sorry but your experience is slightly wrong .

The Govt contracted to buy the rice from the farmers through the mills, the BAAC was contracted (for a percentage) to pay out the money to the farmers that was supposed to be given to it by the Govt.

According to a Thailand Development Research Institute report :

The Thailand Development Research Institute found that the country spent up to Bt985 billion buying 54.4 million tonnes of paddy in two and a half years under the scrapped rice-pledging scheme but most of the Bt560-billion producer surplus went to medium-to-large-scale farmers.

That did not include accounting costs:

According to the paper “Corruption in the Paddy Pledging Policy”, which was compiled by TDRI distinguished fellow Nipon Poapongsakorn and a group of researchers, the institute also found that the scheme’s accounting cost as of April was estimated at Bt519.5 billion.

There are also storage costs to be added to that plus all costs since that report was produced in April 2014.

As you can see the total spent on the scheme is well over 1.5 billion with 560 million reaching the farmers.

You do understand that this mean that the little farmers sold it to the medium sized farmers who sold it on.

Do you suppose that the little farmers sold their product for more or less than the previous year knowing that the prices had risen? Ummmmmm. Of course they did.

That doesn't mean that the system was perfect but it doesn't mean that every little farmer in the country didn't get paid either. Prices went up.

Don't know how you worked out that the small farmers sold rice to medium sized farmers.

However you now have the numbers so do the math yourself.

The Govt bought 54.4 million tons of paddy and the farmers received 560 million baht for that quantity of rice.

Tell us how much the farmers received on average per ton of paddy they sold.

Then correlate that with the supposed price of 20,000 per ton for Hom mali and 15,000 per ton for other grades.

Then as a great defender of the scheme you should be able to explain the difference.

Well who did they sell it to then?

[jdinasia]

Farmers who did not participate in the rice scam due to not producing enough, sold to the same people they always have sold to. Millers and factors

[Robby nz]

Sorry but your experience is slightly wrong .

The Govt contracted to buy the rice from the farmers through the mills, the BAAC was contracted (for a percentage) to pay out the money to the farmers that was supposed to be given to it by the Govt.

According to a Thailand Development Research Institute report :

The Thailand Development Research Institute found that the country spent up to Bt985 billion buying 54.4 million tonnes of paddy in two and a half years under the scrapped rice-pledging scheme but most of the Bt560-billion producer surplus went to medium-to-large-scale farmers.

That did not include accounting costs:

According to the paper “Corruption in the Paddy Pledging Policy”, which was compiled by TDRI distinguished fellow Nipon Poapongsakorn and a group of researchers, the institute also found that the scheme’s accounting cost as of April was estimated at Bt519.5 billion.

There are also storage costs to be added to that plus all costs since that report was produced in April 2014.

As you can see the total spent on the scheme is well over 1.5 billion with 560 million reaching the farmers.

You do understand that this mean that the little farmers sold it to the medium sized farmers who sold it on.

Do you suppose that the little farmers sold their product for more or less than the previous year knowing that the prices had risen? Ummmmmm. Of course they did.

That doesn't mean that the system was perfect but it doesn't mean that every little farmer in the country didn't get paid either. Prices went up.

Don't know how you worked out that the small farmers sold rice to medium sized farmers.

However you now have the numbers so do the math yourself.

The Govt bought 54.4 million tons of paddy and the farmers received 560 million baht for that quantity of rice.

Tell us how much the farmers received on average per ton of paddy they sold.

Then correlate that with the supposed price of 20,000 per ton for Hom mali and 15,000 per ton for other grades.

Then as a great defender of the scheme you should be able to explain the difference.

Well who did they sell it to then?

You have told us you have been in the grain business for years so I would think that you would realize that the traders who were left out when the PT Govt took over buying rice still had to supply their clients.

Some , the bigger ones, would have moved overseas but I would think that others would still be in the business of buying rice from the 82% of smaller farmers who were ineligible to join the scheme.

Does that not sound reasonable to you ?

Incidentally, if what I read is correct not all mills joined the scheme so it is likely the ones who did not would have formed some sort of alliance with independent traders and small farmers in order to stay in business.

There are also some cooperatives of rice farmers around the country which may not have been in the scheme, see : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/All-quiet-as-premier-tours-farmers-co-op-and-revie-30253232.html

And the producers of organic rice for sure would not.

These people would have had their rice processed separately from that which was in the scheme.

[Thai at Heart]

Sorry but your experience is slightly wrong .

The Govt contracted to buy the rice from the farmers through the mills, the BAAC was contracted (for a percentage) to pay out the money to the farmers that was supposed to be given to it by the Govt.

According to a Thailand Development Research Institute report :

The Thailand Development Research Institute found that the country spent up to Bt985 billion buying 54.4 million tonnes of paddy in two and a half years under the scrapped rice-pledging scheme but most of the Bt560-billion producer surplus went to medium-to-large-scale farmers.

That did not include accounting costs:

According to the paper “Corruption in the Paddy Pledging Policy”, which was compiled by TDRI distinguished fellow Nipon Poapongsakorn and a group of researchers, the institute also found that the scheme’s accounting cost as of April was estimated at Bt519.5 billion.

There are also storage costs to be added to that plus all costs since that report was produced in April 2014.

As you can see the total spent on the scheme is well over 1.5 billion with 560 million reaching the farmers.

You do understand that this mean that the little farmers sold it to the medium sized farmers who sold it on.

Do you suppose that the little farmers sold their product for more or less than the previous year knowing that the prices had risen? Ummmmmm. Of course they did.

That doesn't mean that the system was perfect but it doesn't mean that every little farmer in the country didn't get paid either. Prices went up.

Don't know how you worked out that the small farmers sold rice to medium sized farmers.

However you now have the numbers so do the math yourself.

The Govt bought 54.4 million tons of paddy and the farmers received 560 million baht for that quantity of rice.

Tell us how much the farmers received on average per ton of paddy they sold.

Then correlate that with the supposed price of 20,000 per ton for Hom mali and 15,000 per ton for other grades.

Then as a great defender of the scheme you should be able to explain the difference.

Well who did they sell it to then?

You have told us you have been in the grain business for years so I would think that you would realize that the traders who were left out when the PT Govt took over buying rice still had to supply their clients.

Some , the bigger ones, would have moved overseas but I would think that others would still be in the business of buying rice from the 82% of smaller farmers who were ineligible to join the scheme.

Does that not sound reasonable to you ?

Incidentally, if what I read is correct not all mills joined the scheme so it is likely the ones who did not would have formed some sort of alliance with independent traders and small farmers in order to stay in business.

There are also some cooperatives of rice farmers around the country which may not have been in the scheme, see : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/All-quiet-as-premier-tours-farmers-co-op-and-revie-30253232.html

And the producers of organic rice for sure would not.

These people would have had their rice processed separately from that which was in the scheme.

Not grain business.

But per set, why would their have been a massive discrepancy in a two tier market.

One buyer is offering x and another is offering 0.75x, but the farmers chose the lower price?

Farmers have been selling to middle men in Thailand or other farmers forever. They get cash flow and move stuff on. So if the maximum price was 15k or 20k all farmers know the moisture constraints and checks.

So its pretty naive to believe that the market created this two tier system where some entered to sell to govt for a much higher price than those who didn't enter.

The small guys may not have sold direct to govt, but of course the middle men sucked that supply up as they always have and sold it either to govt or to others. But to believe that farmers are so dumb not to know that there is a govt price available for 15k best price suggests they were living under a rock.

These people are dumb, and the prices work for various qualities and deals. Not everyone got top price because their didn't produce top quality and of course the buyers are a bunch of *****, but the always were.

What incentive would there be for a farmer not to have sold to the govt?

[AZBill]

You gotta love a kangaroo court! Thailand will never be a democracy. Any person who seeks to change the status quo will be destroyed with trumped up charges and intimidation. This move is so blatantly political and corrupt the rest of the world is just laughing at the clowns in charge.

[rixalex]

You gotta love a kangaroo court! Thailand will never be a democracy. Any person who seeks to change the status quo will be destroyed with trumped up charges and intimidation. This move is so blatantly political and corrupt the rest of the world is just laughing at the clowns in charge.

If the rest of the world actually gave a toss about any of this - it doesn't - I imagine its feeling would be, with regards the Shinawatras and the persecution campaign you perceive them to be currently victims of, along the lines of, 'if you twist justice in your own favour by underhand means, don't complain when others may do the same against you'. Edited March 27, 2015 by rixalex

[Bakseeda]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

Is this including the families of the farmers who killed themselves..? I think NOT..!

[Bakseeda]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

HaHa...

These types of people, NEVER have enough moneys... and where did she get her money in the first place... Looted loot...

[jdinasia]

Sorry but your experience is slightly wrong .

The Govt contracted to buy the rice from the farmers through the mills, the BAAC was contracted (for a percentage) to pay out the money to the farmers that was supposed to be given to it by the Govt.

According to a Thailand Development Research Institute report :

The Thailand Development Research Institute found that the country spent up to Bt985 billion buying 54.4 million tonnes of paddy in two and a half years under the scrapped rice-pledging scheme but most of the Bt560-billion producer surplus went to medium-to-large-scale farmers.

That did not include accounting costs:

According to the paper “Corruption in the Paddy Pledging Policy”, which was compiled by TDRI distinguished fellow Nipon Poapongsakorn and a group of researchers, the institute also found that the scheme’s accounting cost as of April was estimated at Bt519.5 billion.

There are also storage costs to be added to that plus all costs since that report was produced in April 2014.

As you can see the total spent on the scheme is well over 1.5 billion with 560 million reaching the farmers.

You do understand that this mean that the little farmers sold it to the medium sized farmers who sold it on.

Do you suppose that the little farmers sold their product for more or less than the previous year knowing that the prices had risen? Ummmmmm. Of course they did.

That doesn't mean that the system was perfect but it doesn't mean that every little farmer in the country didn't get paid either. Prices went up.

Don't know how you worked out that the small farmers sold rice to medium sized farmers.

However you now have the numbers so do the math yourself.

The Govt bought 54.4 million tons of paddy and the farmers received 560 million baht for that quantity of rice.

Tell us how much the farmers received on average per ton of paddy they sold.

Then correlate that with the supposed price of 20,000 per ton for Hom mali and 15,000 per ton for other grades.

Then as a great defender of the scheme you should be able to explain the difference.

Well who did they sell it to then?

You have told us you have been in the grain business for years so I would think that you would realize that the traders who were left out when the PT Govt took over buying rice still had to supply their clients.

Some , the bigger ones, would have moved overseas but I would think that others would still be in the business of buying rice from the 82% of smaller farmers who were ineligible to join the scheme.

Does that not sound reasonable to you ?

Incidentally, if what I read is correct not all mills joined the scheme so it is likely the ones who did not would have formed some sort of alliance with independent traders and small farmers in order to stay in business.

There are also some cooperatives of rice farmers around the country which may not have been in the scheme, see : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/All-quiet-as-premier-tours-farmers-co-op-and-revie-30253232.html

And the producers of organic rice for sure would not.

These people would have had their rice processed separately from that which was in the scheme.

Not grain business.

But per set, why would their have been a massive discrepancy in a two tier market.

One buyer is offering x and another is offering 0.75x, but the farmers chose the lower price?

Farmers have been selling to middle men in Thailand or other farmers forever. They get cash flow and move stuff on. So if the maximum price was 15k or 20k all farmers know the moisture constraints and checks.

So its pretty naive to believe that the market created this two tier system where some entered to sell to govt for a much higher price than those who didn't enter.

The small guys may not have sold direct to govt, but of course the middle men sucked that supply up as they always have and sold it either to govt or to others. But to believe that farmers are so dumb not to know that there is a govt price available for 15k best price suggests they were living under a rock.

These people are dumb, and the prices work for various qualities and deals. Not everyone got top price because their didn't produce top quality and of course the buyers are a bunch of *****, but the always were.

What incentive would there be for a farmer not to have sold to the govt?

No incentive at all. Simply a restriction based on quantity etc.

The scam required that the seller be a farmer and produce a minimum quantity.

[rubl]

You gotta love a kangaroo court! Thailand will never be a democracy. Any person who seeks to change the status quo will be destroyed with trumped up charges and intimidation. This move is so blatantly political and corrupt the rest of the world is just laughing at the clowns in charge.

Absolutely, and where you come from people do recognise kangaroo courts I would imagine.

Mind you, assuming 'this move' refers to the topic of 'Ms. Yingluck to face trial ...' this move is just the justice Ms. Yingluck requested. She wants to be able to explain herself and rather do that to a court than to the NLA before