Aviation Authorities Are Hoping for a Compromise from ICAO

[Just1Voice]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

Don't worry. If THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO and you won't be able to book with THAI anyway.

if THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO

If that should happen, which is a possibility, that will send Thailand into a tailspin of economic disaster that will take years to recover from.

[Enoon]

A compromise instead of meeting safety requirements. More pure Thainess

There is no compromise with the ICAO. It is an international organization whose reputation will not risk making deals with a Thai government. How ignorant of you to make such a statement. Do you really thing the ICAO can be bought off? I understand you hate Thailand but your hate has clouded you reasoning ability; and that goes for those who 'liked' your stupid post.

Why are you being so obtuse in your reply ? The article itself is basing Thailands hopes of a compromise, instead of lashing out at the poster why not lash out at those authorities who indeed ARE looking for a compromise instead of fixing the shit that's broken immediately?

You then bash him for his hatred for Thailand but post after post after posts your hated for the PTP and all things Shins is no secret, what about your hatred?

If the THAI personnel hadn't cut corners or paid lip service to that report, they wouldn't be facing this situation !!!

Rip into their ineptitude and complacency!!!!!

And that's complete bulkshit in needing article 44 to fix this too, what was wrong with just sacking those responsible in the first place!!! That doesn't need article 44 but a backbone to accept things were not going too well in the industry.

I am not siding with any one individual. The PTP (2008 to 2011) and TRT (2001 - 2006) were in power for the most of this century, and seemingly did very little to fix problems which are now surfacing, and the current "non elected' government under the leadership of the General have the unenviable task of rectifying matters. I try not to hate anyone or anything, but I do hold the PTP in contempt. (Wikipedia - .... disgust and anger ) and I fully agree with your statement " If the THAI personnel hadn't cut corners or paid lip service to that report, they wouldn't be facing this situation !!! "

As far as I know there were no problems arising from Thailands last audit in 2005, results here: http://www.icao.int/safety/Pages/USOAP-Results.aspx

Governments since 2005 (since when the problems have arisen)

2006 Th(aksinista) M(ilitary)

2007 M

2008 Th M D(emocrat)

2009 D

2010 D

2011 Th D

2012 Th

2013 Th

2014 Th M

I have compiled the list from this source:Prime Minister of Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so I am unable to say exactly how long each faction spent in power and for what percentage of a year but, as you can see, in three of those years power changed hands, three times in 2008.

I will count a year of change as 1/2 a year thus:

4 years for Th

3 years for D

2 and 1/2 M

This is a very coarse measurement and i've no doubt a proper statistician would find my efforts risible.

The point that I am trying to make is that during the significant period (2006 to 2015) during which the other factions enjoyed 5.5 years power (as opposed to 4 of Th) those other factions had plenty of time to do what the ICAO gave as it's primary concern - the issuing of operating licences to 22 airlines in just nine months, and to initiate whatever culture has led to todays sorry situation.

The year following November 2009 may be the significant period, as that was the month/year when the Thai aviation regulatary body recieved its new name of DCA.

I'm just speculating of course, like you "I am not siding with any one individual".

Edited April 9, 2015 by Enoon

[rametindallas]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

Don't worry. If THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO and you won't be able to book with THAI anyway.

if THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO

If that should happen, which is a possibility, that will send Thailand into a tailspin of economic disaster that will take years to recover from.

A definite possibility. My own speculation is the current government had taken on dual roles when they took over the country. Either one of those roles would be a full-time job and it is/would be a near impossibility to do both at the same time and get them done properly.

The first role was the basic role of running the government of a country of 65 millions. Since those 65 millions are Thai, it is not a job that just any government can do well/efficiently. Some of the success of this role will depend on how well the second role is doing.

The second role was to rid Thailand of the Thaksin influence which I would compare to cleaning the Aegean stables. There are plenty of officials who are necessary to running the country but are still loyal to Thaksin who put them in their jobs. And it's not just Thaksin, there are plenty of civil service who are loyal to the other parties as well and each has its own agenda that is most likely not the same as PM Prayut's.

This problem with the ICAO did not just appear from nowhere and it has become painfully clear that the current government didn't give a it high enough priority. Many board members of THAI were replaced soon after the coup but they not account for the need to increase the size of the Dept. of Civil Aviation to handle the number of flights (safely) that had increased ten-fold since its staff was increased last. When one is trying to do too many things, details, and sometimes important details, get overlooked. I wonder how many other major problems are going to crop up before the General is done cleaning out the Shinawatra influence from the government.

This problem with the ICAO is highlighting the limitations of PM Prayut, or for that matter, any government, to try to do too much too soon. There are other carriers to bring tourists to Thailand but to have THAI grounded internationally is a huge financial blow even if it's just for a few weeks.

Edited April 9, 2015 by rametindallas

[chooka]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

Don't worry. If THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO and you won't be able to book with THAI anyway.

if THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO

If that should happen, which is a possibility, that will send Thailand into a tailspin of economic disaster that will take years to recover from.

How hard would it be for TAT to adjust the figures, tourism will go through the roof.

[samran]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

Don't worry. If THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO and you won't be able to book with THAI anyway.

if THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO

If that should happen, which is a possibility, that will send Thailand into a tailspin of economic disaster that will take years to recover from.

Thai Airways and a bunch of other big airlines such as air Asia can choose, as I understand it, on an individual basis to comply with standards set by the FAA for instance in the US and that should be comfort enough for a vast array of other civil aviation regulators.

The real victims here are the charter airlines in thailand which don't have those deep pockets are are relying on the good word and reputation of the Thai DCA.

Edited April 10, 2015 by samran

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There are different problems here in different sectors that are the responsibility, in a direct sense, of different players. But ultimately, in the end, all of this comes back to the failures of the various Thai governments to do what needed to be done for a safe and well-functioning civil aviation system.

In a direct sense, Thai Air, its management and politically appointed board members are responsible for their various failures of poor service, poor pricing, poor aircraft acquisition decisions and poor financial management.

Separately, in a direct sense, the Transport Ministry, its minister and permanent secretary, etc etc. have been responsible for the country's civil aviation administration, including the Department of Civil Aviation, and its failures to have adequate regulation, sufficient staff to do the work that's required, and proper administrative processes to meet its various obligations.

But ultimately, because Thai Air is a national carrier with considerable ownership and management control of the government, both areas ultimately are the responsibility of the various governments that have been in power for the past decade.

One might imagine, the various people in charge were more interested in spending their time on various transport construction projects where there were likely significant skims to be earned vs. a well-functioning civil aviation operations system where the skims are probably less, and where resulting losses due to failures and ineptitude don't hit the various players personally, but rather harm the country and its reputation as a whole.