1993 Honda Civic overheating

[Ace of Pop]

Think You missed Lots Point. Go to Big Honda first get a Quality Test, then go to Shaggy for a the Work. If he does it right,you should have left it to Honda for the tiny saving you make.

[arthurwait]

As I stated, lostinisaan, the radiator was very far from full - hence my refilling it with a hose - a process which took around 15 minutes with the car idling (as I think is the recommended method). However it didn't seem to be completely empty. As for 'how hot' the engine got - it got as hot as the gauge would go.

I have had fairly good luck with the 'shaggy' mechanic in question, and I don't really see any need to go to the dealer for a 22 year old Civic.

You mean it took 15 minutes just to fill up normally or you were doing it purposely slow drip by drip ?

[lostinisaan]

As I stated, lostinisaan, the radiator was very far from full - hence my refilling it with a hose - a process which took around 15 minutes with the car idling (as I think is the recommended method). However it didn't seem to be completely empty. As for 'how hot' the engine got - it got as hot as the gauge would go.

I have had fairly good luck with the 'shaggy' mechanic in question, and I don't really see any need to go to the dealer for a 22 year old Civic.

You mean it took 15 minutes just to fill up normally or you were doing it purposely slow drip by drip ?

Half full, or half empty? Then you've lost coolant and when you continued driving with a too hot engine, you might have destroyed your head gasket and the head might have to be resurfaced as well.

I haven't read that the OP even filled water in, still don't get it, why you'd use a hose to do that. So there's only a leak somewhere, but now it's getting quite expensive.

Wouldn't be the case, if the OP had listened to some guys on this forum.

I know that most small garages here do a shitty job and you finally pay more than when going to a dealership place.

And you could have taken a Honda mechanic to your car first place and your engine would still be intact.

They'd have brought your car to the garage, without causing a major damage to the engine. But what am I saying?

[ThaiBob]

I think the OP has gotten some good advice. The more we learn, there could be several problems going on with this old engine. My theory is the original problem was probably an issue with the cooling system (radiator cap, radiator leak, hoses, clamps, thermostat, water pump), the engine overheated and now there is also a secondary issue of a potential blown head gasket. From this story I have little faith in this garage and would be dealing with the Honda shop.

[WarpSpeed]

^This is most probable, maybe even cracked the head at this point though less likely with an aluminum one, also I would never replace a head gasket without turning down the head even a tiny bit, just taking too much risk of it happening again real soon thereafter. I believe as I understood it the engine was cold when the OP first refilled it as he had left it over night so there was no need to take so long to fill at that point, you only do it slowly and while it's running when it is overheated at that moment.

[ktm jeff]

^ ^ As the engine , at an earlier point , got very hot - off the guage , there is a very good chance the origional problem has now been joined by a warped head and a blown ( or about too ) head gasket .

[ClareQuilty]

Guys whatever the problems are, they date from before this specific overheating episode! As I stated above the previous owner had similar problems.

No doubt the lack of water and thus the most recent overheating was the result of head gasket issues dating from before I owned the car. In addition, I only allowed the car to reach the hottest temp on the gauge for less than a minute - the previous owner apparently drove quite some distance with the engine hot.

I visited the mechanic today and he was well along the way towards finishing the process, having ground down the block and sent the head for grinding to the machine shop. He's also doing the valves - grinding and reseating or something like that. The same shop recently did this same work on a friend's mid-1990s Corolla and the total ran to 14,000 baht, which sounds fairly reasonable to me (but my friend didn't remember if there were additional parts fixed beyond the head gasket and valves). My friend has been driving that car for a few months since the job and says its quite good.

Edited April 25, 2015 by ClareQuilty

[Isan Farang]

Guys whatever the problems are, they date from before this specific overheating episode! As I stated above the previous owner had similar problems.

No doubt the lack of water and thus the most recent overheating was the result of head gasket issues dating from before I owned the car. In addition, I only allowed the car to reach the hottest temp on the gauge for less than a minute - the previous owner apparently drove quite some distance with the engine hot.

I visited the mechanic today and he was well along the way towards finishing the process, having ground down the block and sent the head for grinding to the machine shop. He's also doing the valves - grinding and reseating or something like that. The same shop recently did this same work on a friend's mid-1990s Corolla and the total ran to 14,000 baht, which sounds fairly reasonable to me (but my friend didn't remember if there were additional parts fixed beyond the head gasket and valves). My friend has been driving that car for a few months since the job and says its quite good.

One of these and a 12in steel rule and all will be spot on. The valves will be a little more complex getting the angle right, but that's only a minor issue.

[arthurwait]

Guys whatever the problems are, they date from before this specific overheating episode! As I stated above the previous owner had similar problems.

No doubt the lack of water and thus the most recent overheating was the result of head gasket issues dating from before I owned the car. In addition, I only allowed the car to reach the hottest temp on the gauge for less than a minute - the previous owner apparently drove quite some distance with the engine hot.

I visited the mechanic today and he was well along the way towards finishing the process, having ground down the block and sent the head for grinding to the machine shop. He's also doing the valves - grinding and reseating or something like that. The same shop recently did this same work on a friend's mid-1990s Corolla and the total ran to 14,000 baht, which sounds fairly reasonable to me (but my friend didn't remember if there were additional parts fixed beyond the head gasket and valves). My friend has been driving that car for a few months since the job and says its quite good.

If all is well after this you've still probably got a bargain.

Those extra parts should include a new timing belt and tensioner, which will please some members. Whole head gasket set, valve seals, oil, filter and coolant as well.

[lostinisaan]

Guys whatever the problems are, they date from before this specific overheating episode! As I stated above the previous owner had similar problems.

No doubt the lack of water and thus the most recent overheating was the result of head gasket issues dating from before I owned the car. In addition, I only allowed the car to reach the hottest temp on the gauge for less than a minute - the previous owner apparently drove quite some distance with the engine hot.

I visited the mechanic today and he was well along the way towards finishing the process, having ground down the block and sent the head for grinding to the machine shop. He's also doing the valves - grinding and reseating or something like that. The same shop recently did this same work on a friend's mid-1990s Corolla and the total ran to 14,000 baht, which sounds fairly reasonable to me (but my friend didn't remember if there were additional parts fixed beyond the head gasket and valves). My friend has been driving that car for a few months since the job and says its quite good.

If all is well after this you've still probably got a bargain.

Those extra parts should include a new timing belt and tensioner, which will please some members. Whole head gasket set, valve seals, oil, filter and coolant as well.

And you might have to add a new starter, new valves ( wrong timing), new pistons, rings, of course, because the Chang didn't find the marks for the right timing.

It seems this thread will last for a few more weeks.

Perhaps caused by a leaking hose only?. Hey Joe, where do you go with the gun in your hand?

Edited April 26, 2015 by lostinisaan

[ktm jeff]

Lost , it sounds like your an engineer , like myself , but I think some of us can be in danger of "over thinking" the problem . Car bought cheap , with this knowm problem of water consumption . From where we dont know , and may never know . Sounds like the previous owner "cooked" the engine .Only a matter of time before repair was needed . Problem now being fixed , hopefully with an oil flush and then a change . Could cost 15,000 . Lets wait and see if this car remains a bargain .We need the purchase price of the car , and the repair cost + 6 month report .

[seedy]

Good idea to have the head machined. Block usually OK.

Hope they finish grind the head to 50-60 RA to eliminate head gasket problems in the future.

[lostinisaan]

Lost , it sounds like your an engineer , like myself , but I think some of us can be in danger of "over thinking" the problem . Car bought cheap , with this knowm problem of water consumption . From where we dont know , and may never know . Sounds like the previous owner "cooked" the engine .Only a matter of time before repair was needed . Problem now being fixed , hopefully with an oil flush and then a change . Could cost 15,000 . Lets wait and see if this car remains a bargain .We need the purchase price of the car , and the repair cost + 6 month report .

There’s a time when I made some “special troubleshooting” for British, American and of course for European cars, when some dealership garages were at the end, had spent hundreds of hours and finally didn't get it.

I've experienced a little more complex problems, for example an American who’d changed the engine to save some money, but all in a sudden there’s no more spark.

An AAFES garage in Germany got in touch with me and I started my troubleshooting. They’d tried almost everything. A new computer under the dashboard, plus the one in the engine room, but the problem was still there.

To make a long story short, the pickup in the distributor, didn't get the signal it needed and an hour later, the car was running again.All I had to do was to find the right pick up,problem solved.

Then a Jag garage in a Bavarian (or Barbarian city?) couldn't get a 6 cylinder engine running.

Of course did they check compression, timing, put new spark plugs in, the whole program. The customer already freaked out, because his beloved car was sitting there for two weeks, nobody had an idea what was wrong. That was when the guy from the garage brought it to my place.

I only checked for a spark, only the compression of one cylinder, then took the rubber cap of the distributor. These things usually show black marks inside and the spark goes from a contact point to another, easy to find out.

But this Jag had this problem on the outside of the distributor cap. When I saw it and told the owner to go and buy a new cap, he really started laughing at me. I then promised him a box of finest wine, if the car wouldn't run on the same day.

When he came back, I switched the caps, told him to start his engine, the guy still laughing at me. But then you could hear the horses doing their job and the problem was solved.

So when I read stories, like the OP’s overwhelming engine, I wanted to help him and I think I a sort of gave him the right advice, including many others on this forum.

But I finally found out that the guy didn't even listen to some posters and the story all in a sudden changed into one that the problem already existed, when he bought the car.

That’s when people get really fed up and start to think twice if they continue trying to help others.

OP, please read your own thread again and tell me where you’d mentioned that you bought a car that was always overheating.

Anyway, life’s too short to think about an old Honda that might have the wrong owner? Cheers.--

Edited April 26, 2015 by lostinisaan

[tifino]

hopefully the machining will solve the water loss problem, irrespective of 'when' the suspected headgasket problem began.

The model is well known for overheating, for which,one symptom are airpockets in the system, which of course can come about by a regular loss/retopping of the system.

If a head-gasket was the culprit, then one way I have for seeing a sign is that the overflow bottle isn't re-emptying back into the engine during the switched-off-cooling-phase. Years back when coming up with a way of finding how much water was being lost each time - I cascaded another overflow bottle to catch whatever was being expelled during the overheating phase.

This little idea had an extra benefit (and I now always have a cascaded extra bottle installed), so I attach a drawing of the concept:

The benefit is that I now have 4 litres of overflow storage available to capture all expelled fluids.

Last year I had a water pump failure, which comprised overheating, ruined waterpump, and cooked thermostat.

But, I didn't go dry due to the extra bottle.

The original bottle's only modification was to have the extra pipe attached to the bottletop, and to seal the bottletop with silicon.

The original botlle remains Full at all times.

The 2nd bottle doesn't have to have Coolant in it when Cold.

Any top-up are only done via the 2nd bottle, as whatever extra fluid added will lateron be drawn back into the sealed primary bottle during the cool-down phase the next time the car is driven.

Temporary Test for Thermostat Failure and radiator blockage, can be to feel the temperature of the radiator fins down near the base of the radiator a couple of minutes after switch-on. There should be at least a little bit of warmth felt by this time

If adventurous, you could open and remove the actual thermostat and reinstall the cover. This will quickly display, again by feel of the radiator's temperature, that full-flow is capable/ (or blocked)

Edited April 26, 2015 by tifino

[ktm jeff]

Although we werent given all the info at the start of the thread , by the OP ( who , by his own admision knows little about cars / bikes ) this thread got our grey brain cells working , coming up with some good ideas , and now diagrams . Yes , "Troubleshooting" is made easier and more accurate by being given all the info / symptons , but this has to come from someone who knows how to accuratly explain them , and at the begining . .

[WarpSpeed]

Guys whatever the problems are, they date from before this specific overheating episode! As I stated above the previous owner had similar problems.

No doubt the lack of water and thus the most recent overheating was the result of head gasket issues dating from before I owned the car. In addition, I only allowed the car to reach the hottest temp on the gauge for less than a minute - the previous owner apparently drove quite some distance with the engine hot.

I visited the mechanic today and he was well along the way towards finishing the process, having ground down the block and sent the head for grinding to the machine shop. He's also doing the valves - grinding and reseating or something like that. The same shop recently did this same work on a friend's mid-1990s Corolla and the total ran to 14,000 baht, which sounds fairly reasonable to me (but my friend didn't remember if there were additional parts fixed beyond the head gasket and valves). My friend has been driving that car for a few months since the job and says its quite good.

If all is well after this you've still probably got a bargain.

Those extra parts should include a new timing belt and tensioner, which will please some members. Whole head gasket set, valve seals, oil, filter and coolant as well.

And water pump...

[Jessi]

Lost , it sounds like your an engineer , like myself , but I think some of us can be in danger of "over thinking" the problem . Car bought cheap , with this knowm problem of water consumption . From where we dont know , and may never know . Sounds like the previous owner "cooked" the engine .Only a matter of time before repair was needed . Problem now being fixed , hopefully with an oil flush and then a change . Could cost 15,000 . Lets wait and see if this car remains a bargain .We need the purchase price of the car , and the repair cost + 6 month report .

There’s a time when I made some “special troubleshooting” for British, American and of course for European cars, when some dealership garages were at the end, had spent hundreds of hours and finally didn't get it.

I've experienced a little more complex problems, for example an American who’d changed the engine to save some money, but all in a sudden there’s no more spark.

An AAFES garage in Germany got in touch with me and I started my troubleshooting. They’d tried almost everything. A new computer under the dashboard, plus the one in the engine room, but the problem was still there.

To make a long story short, the pickup in the distributor, didn't get the signal it needed and an hour later, the car was running again.All I had to do was to find the right pick up,problem solved.

Then a Jag garage in a Bavarian (or Barbarian city?) couldn't get a 6 cylinder engine running.

Of course did they check compression, timing, put new spark plugs in, the whole program. The customer already freaked out, because his beloved car was sitting there for two weeks, nobody had an idea what was wrong. That was when the guy from the garage brought it to my place.

I only checked for a spark, only the compression of one cylinder, then took the rubber cap of the distributor. These things usually show black marks inside and the spark goes from a contact point to another, easy to find out.

But this Jag had this problem on the outside of the distributor cap. When I saw it and told the owner to go and buy a new cap, he really started laughing at me. I then promised him a box of finest wine, if the car wouldn't run on the same day.

When he came back, I switched the caps, told him to start his engine, the guy still laughing at me. But then you could hear the horses doing their job and the problem was solved.

So when I read stories, like the OP’s overwhelming engine, I wanted to help him and I think I a sort of gave him the right advice, including many others on this forum.

But I finally found out that the guy didn't even listen to some posters and the story all in a sudden changed into one that the problem already existed, when he bought the car.

That’s when people get really fed up and start to think twice if they continue trying to help others.

OP, please read your own thread again and tell me where you’d mentioned that you bought a car that was always overheating.

Anyway, life’s too short to think about an old Honda that might have the wrong owner? Cheers.--

You seem like a very clever man, I would like to sit and have a coffee with you some day. I enjoy talking with people that have knowledge.

[Vacuum]

Strange noise YES then its the waterpump.

No special noice - Thermostat

In Thailand you dont need antifreeze (555) but it is VERY reconmanded to put a antirust - waterclean product in the coolwater otherways your tubes and for sure the thermostat stoks due to the rust.

I think the best thing you can do is to tow the car to the shop. Ask friends, its only 8 km

Well you do need 'anti-freeze' - it also increases the boiling point of the water

If your water temp gets so high, then you have other problems with the cooling system that won't be solved by using 'anti-freeze'. However, it does have anti-corrosion capabilities.

[ClareQuilty]

If all is well after this you've still probably got a bargain.

Those extra parts should include a new timing belt and tensioner, which will please some members. Whole head gasket set, valve seals, oil, filter and coolant as well.

And water pump...

Actually I was just over there looking at the open engine, and just as Honda said, the timing belt looks almost new. This mechanic, like Honda, said that it looks like it was replaced fairly recently and doesn't need replacing. He said he would check out the water pump.

Basically he's looking to do what needs to be done, but not more, recognizing my extremely tight budget. His middle aged son was there, and he suggested putting new valves at 800 baht each, but the elderly father insisted that merely 'fixing' the old valves was fine.

By 'valves' I mean the fluted stemlike things, they look like little trumpets.

[ktm jeff]

CQ , is this the mechanic you also take your bikes too ? . Sounds like the "old" man knows your budget , and is working to it .Not always the best way to do things , but you are correct to not spend too much on a cheap car .

[lostinisaan]

Strange noise YES then its the waterpump.

No special noice - Thermostat

In Thailand you dont need antifreeze (555) but it is VERY reconmanded to put a antirust - waterclean product in the coolwater otherways your tubes and for sure the thermostat stoks due to the rust.

I think the best thing you can do is to tow the car to the shop. Ask friends, its only 8 km

Well you do need 'anti-freeze' - it also increases the boiling point of the water

If your water temp gets so high, then you have other problems with the cooling system that won't be solved by using 'anti-freeze'. However, it does have anti-corrosion capabilities.

Worse comes to worst. Water temp and chang ( mechanic) are too high.However the general does have anti-corruption capabilities.-

Edited April 28, 2015 by lostinisaan

[ClareQuilty]

CQ , is this the mechanic you also take your bikes too ? . Sounds like the "old" man knows your budget , and is working to it .Not always the best way to do things , but you are correct to not spend too much on a cheap car .

My goodness no - car mechanics and bike mechanics don't mix. His prices, though reasonable, are many times what I'd pay for a bike repair. The little bike shops I use are super cheap.

I tend to like older people and suspect they do better work, understand old machines better, and perhaps even understand extreme impecuniousness better. Besides, he speaks a rough and ready English from many years of working in the middle east.

Should be just another couple of days till the job's finished, I'll report back.

[ktm jeff]

CQ , is this the mechanic you also take your bikes too ? . Sounds like the "old" man knows your budget , and is working to it .Not always the best way to do things , but you are correct to not spend too much on a cheap car .

My goodness no - car mechanics and bike mechanics don't mix. His prices, though reasonable, are many times what I'd pay for a bike repair. The little bike shops I use are super cheap.

I tend to like older people and suspect they do better work, understand old machines better, and perhaps even understand extreme impecuniousness better. Besides, he speaks a rough and ready English from many years of working in the middle east.

Should be just another couple of days till the job's finished, I'll report back.

Many of the " older " mechanics also seem more inclined / willing to repair , rather than replace .

[BFerearnk]

CQ , is this the mechanic you also take your bikes too ? . Sounds like the "old" man knows your budget , and is working to it .Not always the best way to do things , but you are correct to not spend too much on a cheap car .

My goodness no - car mechanics and bike mechanics don't mix. His prices, though reasonable, are many times what I'd pay for a bike repair. The little bike shops I use are super cheap.

I tend to like older people and suspect they do better work, understand old machines better, and perhaps even understand extreme impecuniousness better. Besides, he speaks a rough and ready English from many years of working in the middle east.

Should be just another couple of days till the job's finished, I'll report back.

Many of the " older " mechanics also seem more inclined / willing to repair , rather than replace .

Going to the mark dealer with a OLD car is trow away money, they dont look to repair or put second hand parts... al new + the 7% vat . Indeed the older mecanics will repair rother then replace, If neccesary to replace, there are enought shops with genui parts without 7%.

Example : Drumbrake pats (4) + disc blocs (4) 1400THB from Kenji (Japan)= the same who deliver to the most Jap. carfactorys (replace them myself).. The alternator and the starter from my car are repair + the in out- and input (with my help) for 1500THB and still work the last 4 years. You only have to take the time to look and ask around.

[lostinisaan]

Is the car still getting fixed? Just wondering.

[ClareQuilty]

Is the car still getting fixed? Just wondering.

Yes, it was finished with the original work a few days ago, but I was out of town.

The mechanics started, ran, and used the car occasionally while I was gone to test it out. The engine runs fine, doesn't overheat, except that it has a new problem - after it has been run around 15 minutes it begins to die out. They theorize it is a part in the carburetor involved in fuel supply - he showed it to me, a kind of little metal tube about 1.5 inches long with two little rubber washers that go along with it. They've ordered the part from Bangkok so I haven't paid or gotten the car back yet.

To be honest I have a lot of doubt about this as they didn't seem very sure about this diagnosis. Personally it sounds to me like something worse.. like something wrong with the work they did. Who knows.

[Tywais]

"after it has been run around 15 minutes it begins to die out."

Did they do a compression test after finished?

[arthurwait]

Torque wrenches are expensive in Thailand.

Was the rubber cooked ?

[Ace of Pop]

Just missed the Injection Civic then,surprising if the years correct @ 1993.?.

[ktm jeff]

Everything , and i mean everything , will be cooked on that motor - starter , alternator , ECU , under-bonnet electrics , gaskets/seals , hoses and pipes . If the carb ( i thought it would be injection ) has had the fuel cooked inside , then more than a few passage-ways ,jets and emulsion tubes will be gummed up ( which could be cleared out with "carb-clean" ) , and "O" rings perrished . This may be a car that just keeps on costing . I dont think i would keep this car too long - sorry . If its fuel starvation , check the fuel filler cap is venting - no air in = no fuel out . Good luck .