Court refuses to pinpoint which side killed Japanese cameraman in 2010

[webfact]

Court refuses to pinpoint which side killed Japanese cameraman in 2010
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Criminal Court Thursday announced the result of inquiry into the killing of Reuters cameraman Hiro Muramoto, saying he was killed by a high-velocity bullet with unknown type and size.

The court announced that it was uncertain which side fired the bullet and from direction it was fired from. The court also announced the same result with the killings of two red-shirt protesters, Wasant Phuthong and Thossachai Mekngamfah.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Court-refuses-to-pinpoint-which-side-killed-Japane-30259083.html


-- The Nation 2015-04-30

[webfact]

Criminal Court’s ruling fails to pinpoint who shot Japanese TV cameraman

BANGKOK: -- The Bangkok South District Criminal Court today refused to identify exactly who shot dead the Japanese cameraman and two anti-government protesters during violent clash in April 2010, saying only they were shot with high velocity bullets of unknown types.

The court convened hearing of its verdict in the case which Reuters Japanese television cameraman Hiro Muramoto, and redshirt protesters Wasant Phuthong and Tosachai Mekngamfa were shot dead at about 9 pm on April 10, 2010, during violent clash on Dinsor road near the Democracy monument.

Judging from testimonies from witnesses, all circumstantial and forensic evidences and autopsy reports, the court said Mr Muramoto was struck by high velocity bullet of unknown kind which pierced his upper left chest and penetrated through the right arm and back.

The bullet destroyed his lung and artery.

Wasant was hit by high velocity bullet which cut through his head destroying the brain, while Tosachai was hit on the chest.

The court said it could not be determined who shot the three and from which direction the shots were fired from.

After hearing the verdict former UDD leader Thida Thavornset said she was disappointed but has to accept the ruling.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/criminal-courts-ruling-fails-to-pinpoint-who-shot-japanese-tv-cameraman


-- Thai PBS 2015-04-30

[Suffinator]

The court announced that it was uncertain which side fired the bullet and from direction it was fired from. The court also announced the same result with the killings of two red-shirt protesters, Wasant Phuthong and Thossachai Mekngamfah.

Either a complete cover-up or simply attesting to the piss poor forensics science capabilities currently in Thailand. Either way the loss of face is clearly evident. Moronic, deceitful, untrustworthy, corrupt and disgraceful are just a few words that come to mind.

I'd like to see the family of the Japanese cameraman sue them for billions.

[webfact]

Court Sheds No Light on Death Japanese Reporter in 2010
Khaosod English

BANGKOK — A Thai court said today it lacked sufficient evidence to determine who killed a Japanese reporter and two demonstrators during the military crackdown on Redshirt protesters in 2010.

Hiroyuki Muramoto, a reporter for Reuters news agency, and two Redshirt protesters, Wasan Phuthong and Tossachai Mek-ngamfah, were shot dead close to Democracy Monument during clashes between soldiers and Redshirt protesters on the night of 10 April 2010.

Thai authorities asked the court in late 2010 to identify those responsible for deaths of the three victims, who were among 20 other civilians killed that night. Five soldiers also died in the clashes, including the field commander of the operation.

A judge read the inquest’s findings this morning at South Bangkok Criminal Court. He recounted that Hiroyuki was filming the skirmishes between security officers and protesters around Democracy Monument when two grenades hit a group of soldiers at around 8 pm.

After the explosions, soldiers retreated from their initial position in front of Satriwitthaya to Wan Chart Bridge, while Hiroyuki, Wasan, Tossachai, and number of other protesters briefly pursued the soldiers, the judge said. Gunshots then rang out, and the three victims were killed.

Although the judge acknowledged that "reliable" witnesses testified hearing gunshots from the military position, none of them clearly saw who fired the bullets, and no witness saw the moment the three victims were shot.

In addition, no bullets were found in the bodies of the three men, so the court was unable to determine the type of ammunition or direction of the gunfire, the judge said.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1430380690


-- Khaosod English 2015-04-30

[smedly]

who had motive to shoot him and take his recorded footage, I have my own thoughts on that, the man was trying to do his job and report without being restricted or told what to film and what not to film, he evidently crossed that line and was murdered

Edited April 30, 2015 by smedly

[Fat Haggis]

who had motive to shoot him and take his recorded footage, I have my own thoughts on that

The army? ?

[harleyclarkey]

I would have thought that to establish the direction from where the bullets were fired from is a fairly basic exercise in forensics today>??

Did they not recover the bullets? If so then this was a very high velocity bullet, possibly a solid nose, and usually the type fired by the army.

Despite witnesses hearing the direction of the firing and the very unlikely scenario of the protesters murdering their own.....this whole thing stinks.

Are we at all surprised?? Did anyone seriously beleive that a Thai court with Thai "Judges" would want to get to the truth and point the finger at the army??

[webfact]

Thai inquest unsure who killed Japanese cameraman
AFP

BANGKOK: -- A Thai inquest into the death of a Japanese cameraman during a military crackdown five years ago against protesters ended inconclusively Thursday with the court unable to decide who fired the fatal shot.

Hiroyuki Muramoto, 43, of the Thomson Reuters news agency, was shot in the chest by an unknown gunman on April 10, 2010 while covering clashes between Thai troops and the anti-government Red Shirts

Some previous inquests into fatal cases linked to the violence have pointed the finger of blame at soldiers, including the killing of Italian photojournalist Fabio Polenghi.

In November 2011 the government of now ousted Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said there was "clear" evidence that father of two Muramoto had also been felled by a soldier's rifle.

But Bangkok's Southern Criminal Court said it could not definitively say whether the Japanese journalist and two Red Shirt demonstrators killed nearby were shot by soldiers or armed protesters.

Currently Thailand is controlled by the military.

"It cannot be said who the shooters were or which direction the bullets came from," the judge said.

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were injured in Thailand's worst political bloodshed in decades.

An inquest in 2013 ruled that six Thais taking shelter at a temple during the clashes, including a nurse and two rescue volunteers, were shot dead by military snipers shooting into the complex from Bangkok's elevated rail system.

No soldier or official has been prosecuted in connection with the deaths during the unrest, prompting anger from relatives and rights groups who say those responsible are being protected by a culture of impunity in Thailand.

Red Shirt leader Thida Thavornsert said she was unhappy with the latest decision.

"We are disappointed because there was another case in which two people died in the same area and the court at the time blamed the authorities," she told AFP.

Earlier this month the Red Shirts cancelled a religious ceremony marking the fifth anniversary of the crackdown, accusing security forces of surrounding a temple where the memorial was due to take place.

The Red Shirts are loyal to ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra who was deposed in a 2006 military coup and later went into self-imposed exile.

In 2010 his supporters were protesting for fresh elections, a request that was eventually granted a year later bringing his sister Yingluck to power.

Her government was subsequently toppled last May following months of street protests and a military takeover.

It was the latest chapter in a decade of political conflict broadly pitting Bangkok's middle classes and the royalist elite -- backed by parts of the military and judiciary -- against pro-Shinawatra urban working-class voters and farmers from the country's north.

Coup leader and now Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha was one of the senior generals who oversaw the 2010 crackdown.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2015-04-30

[In Town]

Yes, everyone knows the army shot him, and the red shirts. Only the court is afraid to say that.

[catterwell]

The court announced that it was uncertain which side fired the bullet and from direction it was fired from. The court also announced the same result with the killings of two red-shirt protesters, Wasant Phuthong and Thossachai Mekngamfah.

Either a complete cover-up or simply attesting to the piss poor forensics science capabilities currently in Thailand. Either way the loss of face is clearly evident. Moronic, deceitful, untrustworthy, corrupt and disgraceful are just a few words that come to mind.

I'd like to see the family of the Japanese cameraman sue them for billions.

" sue them for billions". Who's "them"? The court?

I once wooed Sue and can say that wooing Sue courts woe.

[Just1Voice]

Nothing like letting everyone off the hook.

[Fat Haggis]

I would have thought that to establish the direction from where the bullets were fired from is a fairly basic exercise in forensics today>??

Did they not recover the bullets? If so then this was a very high velocity bullet, possibly a solid nose, and usually the type fired by the army.

Despite witnesses hearing the direction of the firing and the very unlikely scenario of the protesters murdering their own.....this whole thing stinks.

Are we at all surprised?? Did anyone seriously beleive that a Thai court with Thai "Judges" would want to get to the truth and point the finger at the army??

Not entirely true, using sounds to gauge where the fatal shit came from, but witness statements of where he was standing and the direction he was facing and then doing basic line of sight appreciation would give you decent idea of the firers position.

Alm they are saying as well is that it was a "high velocity" that doesn't really help as it could be any calibre between .22 and 7.62 and even larger up to .50 inch. I'm pretty sure an autopsy is quite thorough enough to be able to determine the calibre these days too.

Should it have revealed that the cause of death was a .308/.338 that kind of narrows the weapons down.....considerably and really only points to one source.

The sad part here is the family are still none the closer to finding out the truth in his death and the finger pointing will continue, even more so here!!

[Just1Voice]

The court announced that it was uncertain which side fired the bullet and from direction it was fired from. The court also announced the same result with the killings of two red-shirt protesters, Wasant Phuthong and Thossachai Mekngamfah.

Either a complete cover-up or simply attesting to the piss poor forensics science capabilities currently in Thailand. Either way the loss of face is clearly evident. Moronic, deceitful, untrustworthy, corrupt and disgraceful are just a few words that come to mind.

I'd like to see the family of the Japanese cameraman sue them for billions.

A cover up? In Thailand. Ohhh, Joe, say it isn't so!

[monkeycountry]

The court announced that it was uncertain which side fired the bullet and from direction it was fired from. The court also announced the same result with the killings of two red-shirt protesters, Wasant Phuthong and Thossachai Mekngamfah.

Either a complete cover-up or simply attesting to the piss poor forensics science capabilities currently in Thailand. Either way the loss of face is clearly evident. Moronic, deceitful, untrustworthy, corrupt and disgraceful are just a few words that come to mind.

I'd like to see the family of the Japanese cameraman sue them for billions.

Sue who?

[monkeycountry]

Yes, everyone knows the army shot him, and the red shirts. Only the court is afraid to say that.

Maybe "everyone" can prove it in court then?

[lovetotravel]

Let's not forget the red shirts were well armed. Plenty of evidence out there that supports this. It was mayhem at this time. Without very good forensic investigators (which Thailand really does not have), it's impossible to prove exactly what happened.

A very sad day for the family of the reporter, but he put himself into that position. Many "war" reporters are killed every year. They know what they are getting themselves into:

1123 Journalists Killed since 1992

https://cpj.org/killed/

[Roadman]

I would have thought that to establish the direction from where the bullets were fired from is a fairly basic exercise in forensics today>??

Did they not recover the bullets? If so then this was a very high velocity bullet, possibly a solid nose, and usually the type fired by the army.

Despite witnesses hearing the direction of the firing and the very unlikely scenario of the protesters murdering their own.....this whole thing stinks.

Are we at all surprised?? Did anyone seriously beleive that a Thai court with Thai "Judges" would want to get to the truth and point the finger at the army??

Not entirely true, using sounds to gauge where the fatal shit came from, but witness statements of where he was standing and the direction he was facing and then doing basic line of sight appreciation would give you decent idea of the firers position.

Alm they are saying as well is that it was a "high velocity" that doesn't really help as it could be any calibre between .22 and 7.62 and even larger up to .50 inch. I'm pretty sure an autopsy is quite thorough enough to be able to determine the calibre these days too.

Should it have revealed that the cause of death was a .308/.338 that kind of narrows the weapons down.....considerably and really only points to one source.

The sad part here is the family are still none the closer to finding out the truth in his death and the finger pointing will continue, even more so here!!

The one source being the Army? That conveniently over looks the reality that Thai Army weapons and munitions regularly go missing even from supposed secure Army sites. And also that Thaksins chief in arms of his treason attacks on Bangkok (Sah Dueang) was also high ranking renegade Army and would have been probably able to secure the same munitions. It also conveniently overlooks that Thaksins Men in Black were also armed with heavy modern weaponry.

Remarkably some in this thread have already concluded it is the Army without the knowledge of even knowing what the calibres were or considering all the options. But then that is common for a lot on this site.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Roadman

[Fat Haggis]

Let's not forget the red shirts were well armed. Plenty of evidence out there that supports this. It was mayhem at this time. Without very good forensic investigators (which Thailand really does not have), it's impossible to prove exactly what happened.

A very sad day for the family of the reporter, but he put himself into that position. Many "war" reporters are killed every year. They know what they are getting themselves into:

1123 Journalists Killed since 1992

https://cpj.org/killed/

He put himself in that position? Oh well that's alright then, as that means those protesters Deaths last year should be viewed in a similar manner? If they hadn't been there they wouldn't have been killed? Is that really what you're saying?

[Fat Haggis]

I would have thought that to establish the direction from where the bullets were fired from is a fairly basic exercise in forensics today>??

Did they not recover the bullets? If so then this was a very high velocity bullet, possibly a solid nose, and usually the type fired by the army.

Despite witnesses hearing the direction of the firing and the very unlikely scenario of the protesters murdering their own.....this whole thing stinks.

Are we at all surprised?? Did anyone seriously beleive that a Thai court with Thai "Judges" would want to get to the truth and point the finger at the army??

Not entirely true, using sounds to gauge where the fatal shit came from, but witness statements of where he was standing and the direction he was facing and then doing basic line of sight appreciation would give you decent idea of the firers position.

Alm they are saying as well is that it was a "high velocity" that doesn't really help as it could be any calibre between .22 and 7.62 and even larger up to .50 inch. I'm pretty sure an autopsy is quite thorough enough to be able to determine the calibre these days too.

Should it have revealed that the cause of death was a .308/.338 that kind of narrows the weapons down.....considerably and really only points to one source.

The sad part here is the family are still none the closer to finding out the truth in his death and the finger pointing will continue, even more so here!!

The one source being the Army? That conveniently over looks the reality that Thai Army weapons and munitions regularly go missing even from supposed secure Army sites. And also that Thaksins chief in arms of his treason attacks on Bangkok (Sah Dueang) was also high ranking renegade Army and would have been probably able to secure the same munitions. It also conveniently overlooks that Thaksins Men in Black were also armed with heavy modern weaponry.

Remarkably some in this thread have already concluded it is the Army without the knowledge of even knowing what the calibres were or considering all the options. But then that is common for a lot on this site.

Remarkably some in this thread have already concluded it was the red shirts without the knowledge of even knowing what the calibre a were or considering all the options, But then again the is common for a lot on this site.

Are you familiar with what weapons use .308/.338 rounds?

I am and I can assure you if the redshirts had these weapons especially the with claims of the MIB, as a highly trained "military" type of unit there would have been a lot more Army fatalities, which thankfully there wasn't.

[lovetotravel]

Let's not forget the red shirts were well armed. Plenty of evidence out there that supports this. It was mayhem at this time. Without very good forensic investigators (which Thailand really does not have), it's impossible to prove exactly what happened.

A very sad day for the family of the reporter, but he put himself into that position. Many "war" reporters are killed every year. They know what they are getting themselves into:

1123 Journalists Killed since 1992

https://cpj.org/killed/

He put himself in that position? Oh well that's alright then, as that means those protesters Deaths last year should be viewed in a similar manner? If they hadn't been there they wouldn't have been killed? Is that really what you're saying?

That's one reason we didn't go to the protest sites. Just too dangerous. Not trying to be crude. But these protest sites have a history of being very dangerous.

[zaphod reborn]

Redshirts throw grenades. Maybe army soldiers shoot back. Journalist is next to red shirts. Journalist hit by bullets and killed. Is this murder? I don't think so, unless it can be proven he was shot by the redshirts.

[tahyaa]

Can anyone tell me how can I make new fresh post on this forum ?

[Fat Haggis]

Let's not forget the red shirts were well armed. Plenty of evidence out there that supports this. It was mayhem at this time. Without very good forensic investigators (which Thailand really does not have), it's impossible to prove exactly what happened.

A very sad day for the family of the reporter, but he put himself into that position. Many "war" reporters are killed every year. They know what they are getting themselves into:

1123 Journalists Killed since 1992

https://cpj.org/killed/

He put himself in that position? Oh well that's alright then, as that means those protesters Deaths last year should be viewed in a similar manner? If they hadn't been there they wouldn't have been killed? Is that really what you're saying?

That's one reason we didn't go to the protest sites. Just too dangerous. Not trying to be crude. But these protest sites have a history of being very dangerous.

Nothing crude about your response, it's spot on, they did know the risks, as did the reporter, and despite the attacks continuing, the protestors remained, they were asked any times to stop, and clear the streets, they didn't they seen it as an acceptable risk being there. Bluntly speaking why should people be compensated why they were fully aware of the inherent risk involved ?

If you knew there was a great white shark swimming around your area, would you still go swimming ?

What we see here in Thaialnd is people passionate about their cause and believe the cause is greater than their safety, regardless of their politics.

[tahyaa]

Can anyone tell me how can I make new fresh post on this forum ?

Please, i want to post something serious. Please help me out.

[In Town]

Yes, everyone knows the army shot him, and the red shirts. Only the court is afraid to say that.

Maybe "everyone" can prove it in court then?

Cannot be proved in a Thai court, mate. How long have you lived here?

[Fat Haggis]

Redshirts throw grenades. Maybe army soldiers shoot back. Journalist is next to red shirts. Journalist hit by bullets and killed. Is this murder? I don't think so, unless it can be proven he was shot by the redshirts.

Have you ever thrown a hand grenade? Unless you have an arm like Popeyes you will be lucky to throw it 50M, that means you have to get pretty close to your target.

Do you think that the army let the protestors get that close?

Rules of Engagment are what needs to be discussed here too.

Fire only aimed shots

Positively identify your target

If this camera man had a video camera up in his shoulder then from a distance it could easily look like a shoulder launched weapon, and he was shot by the army, not their fault and not his either as he wouldn't have been situationally aware of what his stance and poise looked like.

Is it murder? No not in my view either, it's only murder if the firer IF he was RTA deliberately knew he, the reporter was unarmed and posed no threat.

[lovetotravel]

BANGKOK: -- Among the Army's weapons confiscated by red-shirt protesters in April 2010, only one M-16 rifle has been returned to the military, the rest are still missing, Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd said in testimony yesterday.

The missing weapons included 25 Tavor rifles, four M-16 rifles and 39 shotguns, he said in testimony before the House of Representative's sub-committee on political development and mass communication.

The weapons belonging to the Army were confiscated by red protesters during the bloody protest in April 2010. They were displayed on the red-shirts' stage at Rajdamnern Avenue on the day, he said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/589905-military-arms-seized-by-red-shirt-protesters-missing/

[lovetotravel]

More pics of weapons here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/811678-abhisit-wants-anupong-thawil-to-testify/

[Fat Haggis]

BANGKOK: -- Among the Army's weapons confiscated by red-shirt protesters in April 2010, only one M-16 rifle has been returned to the military, the rest are still missing, Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd said in testimony yesterday.

The missing weapons included 25 Tavor rifles, four M-16 rifles and 39 shotguns, he said in testimony before the House of Representative's sub-committee on political development and mass communication.

The weapons belonging to the Army were confiscated by red protesters during the bloody protest in April 2010. They were displayed on the red-shirts' stage at Rajdamnern Avenue on the day, he said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/589905-military-arms-seized-by-red-shirt-protesters-missing/

None of these fire .308/.338 rounds ?

[lovetotravel]

BANGKOK: -- Among the Army's weapons confiscated by red-shirt protesters in April 2010, only one M-16 rifle has been returned to the military, the rest are still missing, Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd said in testimony yesterday.

The missing weapons included 25 Tavor rifles, four M-16 rifles and 39 shotguns, he said in testimony before the House of Representative's sub-committee on political development and mass communication.

The weapons belonging to the Army were confiscated by red protesters during the bloody protest in April 2010. They were displayed on the red-shirts' stage at Rajdamnern Avenue on the day, he said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/589905-military-arms-seized-by-red-shirt-protesters-missing/

None of these fire .308/.338 rounds ?

The Criminal Court Thursday announced the result of inquest into the killing of Reuters cameraman Hiro Muramoto, saying he was killed by a high-velocity bullet with unknown type and size.

Where did they say it was that type of round?

Edited April 30, 2015 by lovetotravel