Improving soil quality?

[PeVee1st]

My garden is basically clay with a thin layer of paddy topsoil.

How can I improve the soil quality?

Back home I would aerate & add gypsum, but none seem to be available in Isaan.

[tolsti]

Why can't you aerate?

[apetley]

I'm a rank gardening amateur but we had basically the same soil as you when we first built our house. Over several years I turned it over with grass clippings, dead leaves and sharp sand.

We now have a very productive vegetable patch :-)

[cooked]

I can tell you what I did and what I did in similar soils back in Farang-land. We had piles of builders' sand laying around, I carefully added a little every year and after three years I now have lovely garden soil that doesn't turn into concrete in summer or apply itself to the soles of my shoes when it is wet. I didn't work it in, it does that by itself. Thais mocked at the time. Organic fertiliser (in our case ripe cow poo poo plus some compost has done wonders, don't forget the organic bit to feed the soil. Gypsum would be good, I even heard of people that added cement to their soil, but I certainly never tried that! I prefer my method.

Sand: you need to use river sand, which is acidic, working against the alkaline nature of clay soils. You can buy a toilet cleaner called Vixol which is a strong acid; sprinkle this on the soil and you will see it bubbling. River sand won't bubble.

[apetley]

I'm a rank gardening amateur but we had basically the same soil as you when we first built our house. Over several years I turned it over with grass clippings, dead leaves and sharp sand.

We now have a very productive vegetable patch :-)

'Cooked' just jogged my memory.......loads of cow shit too :-)

[FEBiochar]

How about trying biochar in your soil - this is basically charcoal which is easy to make at home in all sorts of ways. Its a permanent ammendment to the soil which will compliment other organic material (which will be used up on a regular basis - food for soil life /plant). There is plenty of information about biochar production and application to be found on the web. http://sea-biochar.blogspot.com/

[somo]

Gypsum is available in my local farming supply shop. They call it Boon Khow phonetically. It's basically just chalk dust and costs 40 Baht for a 10 kilogram bag.

[DumbFalang]

You might also look into using sunn hemp.

[farmerjo]

Gypsum is available in my local farming supply shop. They call it Boon Khow phonetically. It's basically just chalk dust and costs 40 Baht for a 10 kilogram bag.

Its great to know its avalible and its well worth using for the benefit it provides.

Thats me on a quite a few rai next year.

[chenposeb]

Same problem here. Took me ages to try to find gypsum, but they do have it. I found it in one place where they had never heard of it or knew what it was, then I noticed the chemical formula for gypsum on one of the bags (thanks to checking it out on wiki-CaSO₄·2H₂O ) and lo and behold they had it.

Another thing which I am getting laughed at from the locals is wanting to build a large worm farm then mixing the castings plus a good few worms plus chicken poo and filling the ground with this mix. Some kind of biointensive double digging thing toi begin with. I reckon this would take forever though on my rice fields so only starting off with it in my vege plot.

The way I see it is something is better than nothing and I'm fit enough to do the work right now. So for me it's gypsum in the rice fields and compost/worms/fertiliser in the vege garden.

Also hoping that changing from a monocrop to alternate rice/soya or rice/peas might help and adding all the excess stuff into a mulch permaculture style. Cover crops in the Winter might help also.

[PeVee1st]

I have not found gypsum near Udon Thani. Can someone advise an actual location to buy gypsum in the Udon Thani province?

[CLW]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

[cooked]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

Gypsum and lime make the soil more alkaline. Some of us really don't need that,

[CLW]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

Gypsum and lime make the soil more alkaline. Some of us really don't need that,

That's why I recommend to do a soil test before taking any action.

[farmerjo]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

Hi CLW,

You say the soil test is free,what do they get for that.

A PH level?

Interested to know..

I've never used one off the goverment but would if provided the right anwsers.

Regards

Edited September 29, 2015 by farmerjo

[CLW]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

Hi CLW,

You say the soil test is free,what do they get for that.

A PH level?

Interested to know..

I've never used one off the goverment but would if provided the right anwsers.

Regards

I will find out and let you know

[farmerjo]

The basic principles of soil improvement are adding organic matter and adjust the pH with gypsum and lime. Like some mentioned already. Since your plot is a garden you could add sand. You should also give the biochar a chance.

If you want to be sure about your soil, why not do a soil test? For Thai farmers it's free, I don't know about house garden of foreigners. But then you know exactly what your soil needs. Good luck!

Gypsum and lime make the soil more alkaline. Some of us really don't need that,

So what do you use to lower PH.

Edited September 29, 2015 by farmerjo

[CLW]

There you go

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ho/ho-241-w.pdf&ved=0CCoQFjAEahUKEwj2n66x2ZzIAhVGco4KHdBUBgY&usg=AFQjCNHyDL0ksZ67BALeUTifds5CLRq7DQ/URL]

[cooked]

I have for many years been using acidic (river) sand to improve heavy soils. Not practicable for large areas but judicious addition of a little sand works wonders. Manufacturers of fertilisers wouldn/t make money if everybody did this so there is little on the internet about it. Organic material? All gone in two years at the most. Sand stays there. Nobody believes me!

[chiang mai]

Do a soil test first, litmus paper for ph testing is difficult to find here but cheap and readily available everywhere in the UK/US, think amazon or ebay.

For organic matter: try humost, 25kgs bags cover 25 square metres, costs 125 a bag in my part of town, google humost for contents but highly effective soil conditioner.

[sbf]

Hi re soil tests, we found the local test done for free to be useless. We took in two samples clearly marked, and the results when they finally came more than two months later did not distinguish which was which from our two samples, we could only guess. Also they were not comprehensive, so only 2-3 major elements, and pH and some fertiliser reccs from memory. I would recommend spending a little and sending your sample to a good soil testing laboratory overseas. This is what we do they run about 800B and some postage costs per test, so say 1000B all in. We sent 8 samples of different soils from our area earlier this year, had the results within a week. Gave us Sulpur, Phosporous, Calcium, Magnesium, Potash, Sodium, Boron, Copper, Zinc, Manganese, Iron and Aluminium levels. We are just sending another 25 odd samples later this week, should have results end of next, in time to amend as appropriate and get then seed shortly after.

Gypsum powder widely available through builders merchants, we have paid 120B for 25 kg, made by Siam Gypsum Plaster LP tel 02150045. Also google a product called Thunder Cal which is locally mined Gypsum, and which we are about to try for the first time.

[rice555]

Do a soil test first, litmus paper for ph testing is difficult to find here but cheap and readily available everywhere in the UK/US, think amazon or ebay.

For organic matter: try humost, 25kgs bags cover 25 square metres, costs 125 a bag in my part of town, google humost for contents but highly effective soil conditioner.

Hello All, there have been several threads on soil testing, also where to get testing kits

from Kasat in BKK. I be leave I posted a list of the kits you can buy: NPK, soil & water pH

and a few other. La Mote<sp> test kits are sold through through a dealer in BKK that I

found on google onetime, I first used them back in the 60's in Cali.

rice555

[rice555]

Fogot, Kasit in BKK also does soil & water testing, prices also listed on that thread,

the pamphlet is in Thai.

rice555

[drtreelove]

Other than general building of soil organic matter content, as with cover crops and/or compost, any addition of soil amendments, including gypsum, is just guess work and you may alter soil mineral balances in a way that may not be beneficial, unless its done by prescription, based on actual deficiencies found through the soil test.

Soil analysis and a prescription from a soil scientist is the best way to go. As mentioned, the Land Dept tests take forever and are almost useless. Local university labs are best but not always thorough or easy to get good recommendations for amendments, as they are biased toward NPK chemical fertilizer use; do it yourself test kits have extreme limitations and are usually just NPK and pH. You need to know more than that to amend soil properly.

You can send soil samples from Thailand to Logan Labs in Ohio, USA with a soil permit from the 'Customer Tools' menu on their website. They use superior methods of analysis (Mehlich III) and their standard test includes Cation Exchange Capacity, Soil organic matter content, pH, major anions and cations, and minor elements. All which are important to consider. (Did you know that Calcium and Magnesium ratio is important, and that Boron is important for Calcium metabolism, etc. )

http://www.loganlabs.com/index.html

The cost for a standard test is US$25 which you can pay to Logan Labs with a credit card. They send you the soil test results by email.

You can pay extra to have them write recommendations for amendments, or better yet, send the report to Michael Astera (author of The Ideal Soil) at soil minerals.com. $45 by PayPal

http://www.soilminerals.com/

It's worth it! Good soil health builds plant health and resistance to pests and diseases. Soil mineral balance and resistance to disorders can reduce need for chemical fertilizer and pesticides.

PM me if you want more details on sampling, packing and shipping, and examples of Logan soil tests and Astera recommendations that I have facilitated for farms in Chiang Mai.

Rice555, I can't find those discussions on soil testing we had here a few years ago that included a lot of good information from members.

[rice555]

Other than general building of soil organic matter content, as with cover crops and/or compost, any addition of soil amendments, including gypsum, is just guess work and you may alter soil mineral balances in a way that may not be beneficial, unless its done by prescription, based on actual deficiencies found through the soil test.

Soil analysis and a prescription from a soil scientist is the best way to go. As mentioned, the Land Dept tests take forever and are almost useless. Local university labs are best but not always thorough or easy to get good recommendations for amendments, as they are biased toward NPK chemical fertilizer use; do it yourself test kits have extreme limitations and are usually just NPK and pH. You need to know more than that to amend soil properly.

You can send soil samples from Thailand to Logan Labs in Ohio, USA with a soil permit from the 'Customer Tools' menu on their website. They use superior methods of analysis (Mehlich III) and their standard test includes Cation Exchange Capacity, Soil organic matter content, pH, major anions and cations, and minor elements. All which are important to consider. (Did you know that Calcium and Magnesium ratio is important, and that Boron is important for Calcium metabolism, etc. )

http://www.loganlabs.com/index.html

The cost for a standard test is US$25 which you can pay to Logan Labs with a credit card. They send you the soil test results by email.

You can pay extra to have them write recommendations for amendments, or better yet, send the report to Michael Astera (author of The Ideal Soil) at soil minerals.com. $45 by PayPal

http://www.soilminerals.com/

It's worth it! Good soil health builds plant health and resistance to pests and diseases. Soil mineral balance and resistance to disorders can reduce need for chemical fertilizer and pesticides.

PM me if you want more details on sampling, packing and shipping, and examples of Logan soil tests and Astera recommendations that I have facilitated for farms in Chiang Mai.

Rice555, I can't find those discussions on soil testing we had here a few years ago that included a lot of good information from members.

The Azomite thing was around Jan. 2011

rice555

[lostinisaan]

Can't you just move to a better place?