Panel proposed to review overpricing by Thai hospitals

[trogers]

great! let's not get too excited over this. it's just a proposal... while they're at it, why not propose another panel to investigate the overpriced education in Thailand?

This issue on education may be an impossible task because the present Thai system cannot be called 'Education'.

And without a measuring ruler, one cannot compare.

[Time Traveller]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

Lovely to here a guy has a half full glass not half empty, well done, a man that thinks.

You're missing the point. Exactly the same procedure, different patient would have been charged half what this guy paid. The question is how can the same hospital justify doing that? Maybe there is a valid reason. Or maybe it could just be racial discrimination.

And by the way, I'd much rather have surgery done in Nevada than Thailand (yes I have experience in both). At least the hospitals and doctors there are fully insured and have things called compensation funds. If you had any problems or serious consequences due to negligence in Thailand, how much do you think you would get awarded in a malpractice case? maybe 3000 baht if you're lucky perhaps?

Edited May 13, 2015 by Time Traveller

[DaveinAsia]

LOL! They need to install a panel to find out something that everybody knows already? I thought they only created bureaucratic panels like this in Europe

[Expat1]

The Thai hospitals, as all know, have been overcharging for years, especially foreigners. Anyone can check the pricing on the internet and notice the Thai prices have been escalating for years as the Thai doctors view the western prices and keep increasing accordingly. Though they do have some qualified medical doctors, surgeons and staff many are not so qualified and are graduates of the Thai medical training system that streams into the public health sector. These doctors do their time there then go into private practice and they are accepted, more or less, the same as the ones that have been trained in first world countries. Also the ones I have met of the Thai trained cadres are usually the more political and xenophobic of the two.

Why one would go to a Thai hospital for anything serious (unless there was no choice due to circumstance or they are going to an anomaly here like an eye hospital here which is world class) is beyond me, when one has the choice of going to Malaysia, Spore or Hong Kong as superior alternatives at prices that are now not really that much different.

[stoli]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

Lovely to here a guy has a half full glass not half empty, well done, a man that thinks.

You're missing the point. Exactly the same procedure, different patient would have been charged half what this guy paid. The question is how can the same hospital justify doing that? Maybe there is a valid reason. Or maybe it could just be racial discrimination.

And by the way, I'd much rather have surgery done in Nevada than Thailand (yes I have experience in both). At least the hospitals and doctors there are fully insured and have things called compensation funds. If you had any problems or serious consequences due to negligence in Thailand, how much do you think you would get awarded in a malpractice case? maybe 3000 baht if you're lucky perhaps?

That is the forward thinking of too many falang. How much compensation will I get if there is a problem is your thinking? You certainly are free to choose Nevada over Thailand, because we all have choices. I was extremely pleased with the outcome here. I never project the outcome of my being hit just for crossing the street, and making a decision based on that. Life would be way too short to live that way. But if that is what you choose, to see what the outcome of your actions might be, by all means step in front of a Porsche instead of a Ford, when crossing the street. We all make our own choices, They can probably pay you more if there is a problem. It will fit your thought process more closely. Have a happy life.

[elgordo38]

Priority should be like this.

1. All medicines sold in Thailand should have a Maximum retail price, and to be sold to the same price in hospital and drug stores.

2. Medical council should fix the doctors fees based on the region the practice, probably Bangkok could be bit higher than who works in Had-yai or Changmai.

3. There should not be any nursing fees for Outpatients, this is where people are fooled. Why we have to pay Baht 250 for just checking weight and temperature.

4. There should be a Maximum cost for any kind of Operation required, and a patient can directly contact the Medical council for lowest quoted price hospital.

5. Doctors should get rating based on the performance and to be truly given by the feedback of the patients.

If all other 5 points does not work, they should invite recognized foreign doctors/hospital to work here, so that people should not be fooled anymore.

In theory I like your post but in reality I have to go with the cosmetic changes one. Just to many layers of power here.

[elgordo38]

A cataract operation here costs about 5 times what OHIP pays a doctor in Ontario Canada.

[Inn Between]

You'd better dump your stocks private hospitals here.

Just kidding -- nothing will change.

[Nowisee]

Unfortunately living here I have to accept that in an emergency I will have little choice...and my health insurance is "suppose" to pay for it...

BUT, any elective medical procedure, I am NOT using a thai hospital or doctor. I will either go back to US or Malaysia....no way in thailand.

Last year I did pay for some dental work here... I paid just slightly less than I would have payed my copay in the US. I think the work was pretty decent, actually better than originally done in the US.
If I were to have done again, it depends on the cost... but convenience is also a factor here.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Nowisee

[Fat Haggis]

another committee to be set up, more jobs for the boys then?

[Inn Between]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

"Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery."

That price displays a terrible amount of greed by the healthcare system -- the worst disease there is that affects the health of USA's citizens.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Inn Between

[Thai at Heart]

They also need to look at the medical insurance companies.

My premium renewal is almost 40% more than last year.

When I emailed BUPA to ask why I was told "Your premium was increase due to your age change to 71 years old and We increase our prices to match expected medical inflation."

What a rip off!

Send your complaints to the British government as BUPA is not a Thai company.

In Thailand it is, and all the companies operate on the same pricing strategy for over 65s. How anyone affords the premiums is beyond me once they are that age. But anyway, the gouging of bills sent to insurers by hospitals is enormous and it effects everyone's premiums causing them to be higher. It is basic fraud. A friend of my missus works for AIA and she spends plenty of time removing the fluff from peoples hospital bills.

[trogers]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

"Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery."

That price displays a terrible amount of greed by the healthcare system -- the worst disease there is that affects the health of USA's citizens.

The high prices for medical services in USA is from the feedback loop of the insurance industry.

Insurance pays for treatments that are indemnified by insurance. So every policyholder pays the high premiums to cover the high prices...

[Thai at Heart]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

One massive part in the difference in costs is the insurance cover that the hospitals and the physicians in the states have to carry. If you had died on the table in the USA, the lawsuits would have run to the millions.

Rarely if ever does any such thing happen in Thailand, but when malpractice occurs in Thailand there is little or no recourse.

[mango66]

Yes please do It !!!! And keep us informed of the results, play transparency and inform us of the pressures that you will undergo.

they told already, it willl take time,

not to solve,

but just to set up a paneel which will than start their investigations,

than a long never ending way to conclusions,

results propably not in our life any more to be expected !!

[mango66]

we are in Thailand,

cheating is the best and first what they learn and praktice !!

[mango66]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

One massive part in the difference in costs is the insurance cover that the hospitals and the physicians in the states have to carry. If you had died on the table in the USA, the lawsuits would have run to the millions.

Rarely if ever does any such thing happen in Thailand, but when malpractice occurs in Thailand there is little or no recourse.

IT does not happen in Thailand !!

NO One Dies on a table !!

ask the RTP,

they have investigated in many cases,

they know it !!

[wowfactor10]

My good friend farang 40 years got heart attack...

He had to negotiate in the operation room with the doctor in regard with the price before the doctor would even start to operate him...

he had to agree to 300,000 BHT for his operation at the Bangkok phuket hospital...

Afterwards during check ups it appeared the operation was done totally wrong so his same doctors told him to operate again...

My friend has left Thailand did not take 2 second operation..

Thing can go wrong but to negotiate about pricing with a doctor while you are fighting for ur life with a heart attack its too much!

[stoli]

All I can contribute to this is my experience. 4 years ago I traveled from Nevada, US, where they quoted me $250,000 to $300,000 for open-heart surgery. After discussing this in my small town, I found 5 people that had come to Bangkok to have theirs done. I started a conversation with the Doctors at the Bangkok Heart Hospital, (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group throughout the country.) I flew here without warning to them, and they admitted me at 2am. I spent 16 days in the hospital, where the service, and facilities were better than any hospital in the states that I knew of. They were fabulous from start to finish. My son came with me, and they encourage family to be involved, and to stay in the room with you, whereas the US has strict visiting hours. They value the benefit of family being with you. After these 16 days, with a full team of doctors to look after you, you must stay in Thailand for a week, and return to the hospital to get permission from their aviation Doctor to board a plane home. He asks the airline to put you in the seats with the bulkhead in front of you, so that you can put your carry on luggage in front of you and elevate your feet. Service beyond the call. My total bill was 752,000 baht. (At the time, this was about $24,700, at least 1/10 the cost of the US.)

Recently I was at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and talked to a young man that needed a stint put into his arteries to the heart.. ( A small procedure, requiring at most an overnight stay.) They quoted him 500,000 baht for this. Have prices changed dramatically based on this one instance? Yes, but I do not know if this is common though. I know that the more press they get about it being so affordable here, that prices will rise. True of any market. What I paid was a bargain by any measure. Why be one-tenth the cost to me, when I would have been thrilled with 50% less? It is hard to try to control the free market. Many have tried, and it always fails.

One massive part in the difference in costs is the insurance cover that the hospitals and the physicians in the states have to carry. If you had died on the table in the USA, the lawsuits would have run to the millions.

Rarely if ever does any such thing happen in Thailand, but when malpractice occurs in Thailand there is little or no recourse.

Again, if I had died on the operating table, the millions would not do me much good. People do die in the operating room, but it is not always malpractice. There is a reason that person was in the operating room to begin, and it must have been serious for them to be there. You cannot save everyone in the emergency room, or the operating room. They told me before I decided to have the surgery that there was a 7% chance I would not survive. You just put on your big boy pants, accept, move forward, or don't have it done. I believe this is true in any country.

[thhMan]

Are the people handing in the petition asking for "fair" prices or for "low" prices?

For as far as I know Thai citizens have access to government hospitals FREE OF CHARGE.

If they don't like those hospitals and want to have the convenience of AC, no waiting lines, and doctors who spend more time on them then they can go to a private hospital which is more expensive. There are several private hospitals to chose from, all with different price ranges, and the patient is free to inform upfront what a procedure will cost. If they don't agree with the price, they can take their business elsewhere.

Is that so...

I was on the operating table when the doc told me the "stent" was going to cost 250,000 THB (You have to be awake when they do a stent and its only a "local" in the groin, where they cut)

I was clear minded enough to tell him to ask my missus

Anyway, I had the operation, now I am on meds that cost 30,000 THB a month...

[JLCrab]

Well it sure is interesting to read here in the News section all the medical/medical insurance horror stories you usually get to read only in the Insurance Forum. Regardless of the accuracy of any given story, you will only get to hear, on these pages,the one side of the story.

[Johnny S]

Another dual price scam - Thailand can forget all about "Health Tourism" that is one of TAT wet dreams, the greed have once again taken over ....

[Bob12345]

Are the people handing in the petition asking for "fair" prices or for "low" prices?

For as far as I know Thai citizens have access to government hospitals FREE OF CHARGE.

If they don't like those hospitals and want to have the convenience of AC, no waiting lines, and doctors who spend more time on them then they can go to a private hospital which is more expensive. There are several private hospitals to chose from, all with different price ranges, and the patient is free to inform upfront what a procedure will cost. If they don't agree with the price, they can take their business elsewhere.

Is that so...

I was on the operating table when the doc told me the "stent" was going to cost 250,000 THB (You have to be awake when they do a stent and its only a "local" in the groin, where they cut)

I was clear minded enough to tell him to ask my missus

Anyway, I had the operation, now I am on meds that cost 30,000 THB a month...

Which part of my comment are you contesting exactly?

You deny Thai citizens can get free healthcare in government hospitals or you try to make a case you did not have a free choice in selecting the hospital where you ended up?

[stoli]

Are the people handing in the petition asking for "fair" prices or for "low" prices?

For as far as I know Thai citizens have access to government hospitals FREE OF CHARGE.

If they don't like those hospitals and want to have the convenience of AC, no waiting lines, and doctors who spend more time on them then they can go to a private hospital which is more expensive. There are several private hospitals to chose from, all with different price ranges, and the patient is free to inform upfront what a procedure will cost. If they don't agree with the price, they can take their business elsewhere.

Is that so...

I was on the operating table when the doc told me the "stent" was going to cost 250,000 THB (You have to be awake when they do a stent and its only a "local" in the groin, where they cut)

I was clear minded enough to tell him to ask my missus

Anyway, I had the operation, now I am on meds that cost 30,000 THB a month...

2 years and 3 months before I had my triple bypass, I had a stent put in, in Nevada. They do not give you a warranty on how long they will last. You are right. They want you to watch the procedure, with a TV monitor right in your face. Are they that proud? Thanks goodness they did not do this for the vasectomy 27 years ago! This was done in the US. My medical insurance at that time, for an individual policy, not a group policy, was US $1,000 per month. The hospital charged me $48,000, and the insurance, (Blue Cross/Blue Shield), made me pay $36,000 of it. They then raised my rates to $2,000 a month since I had a stent, and I was forced to cancel the policy. After I had the open heart surgery here in Thailand, I checked to see, since my heart was now fixed, and they said insurance would be $3,000 per month. This was because I retired and had to buy a individual policy, which is far more expensive than a group policy. They could care less about one person, but they will take good care of a group of 50,000 people. Let's face it, government lets them charge what they want, and they do. (I am talking about the US when I say this) Maybe someone smarter than me can find a solution?

Edited May 13, 2015 by stoli

[Beng]

A good idea. Let's hope this will work.

[gemguy]

In a nut shell:

Lucrative corporate profits will always supersede ethics and values.

[Pormax]

Yes the private hospitals are more expensive than government facilities because they offer a better quality treatment than the government facilities. You want fair pricing? Then go to the government hospitals, however they most often do not have the latest technology and likely do not speak any foreign languages. Nobody is forcing Thais or foreigners to go to the private facilities but you often get what you pay for. You want better quality at government facilities - then start collecting your taxes, duties and fines and fill the government hospitals with modern equipment (and staff that knows how to use it) - not filling individual pockets as it is now.

This committee really has set out a task for themselves if they want to set out fair prices for all medical care. There are thousands of procedures and if you want prices on each procedure and treatment it will take plenty of time - what if there are complications and co-morbidity? That committee will probably just come up with a few recommendations once they realize the giant task they are facing and everybody is happy.

Your comments are fair and reasonable, however from somone with almost 50 years of experience in the medical fileld with the NHS, Royal Army Medical Corps and in the private sector I can tell you that prices are much higher in private hospitals because they will do extra tests and procedures that are not necessarily required or justified, just to increase their charges and make the establishment more profitable. Sometimes, as I have experienced first hand, these extra procedures are done which puts the patient at risk. Private hospitals are run like a business, their top priority is to make as much money as possible. Patient care comes a poor second, though because of what you have to pay it is of course much better than Government hospitals. But one has to also bear in mind that many if not most hospital doctors/consultants you see in the private sector are the same ones you would see if you went to the nearby government hospital. Hear you have only certain days and then a small window of 2 to 3 hours to see some consultants in the private hospitals.

[socksy01]

At last a photo that doesn't have the usual finger pointing..........................only this time it's the woman at the back raising the red hands.

[maidee]

i try to live healthy NOW

so hopefully i can avoid later all these scams

got a friend that got a quote for 350.000 baht for a stent

told him, there are some chelating supplements + healty lifestyle and you don't need all that crap

his insurance covered it, so he went for the stent

nobody told him that he would be on 'dangerous' statins for the rest of his life