Verifying Degree Through British Embassy

[wazza69]

Let me start by saying that I am a great admirer of this board. The information posted here is invaluable to teachers in Thailand. I visit as often as I can for all the latest news and information.

I have been teaching in Thailand for a while. I have a BA degree in English and a TEFL cert with teachers license (MOE). I have recently completed a contract with a school and am checking out prospective employers.

With the recent Karr case and the MOE's insistance that schools now check out their future teachers, I have not been surprised that most schools I have contacted are asking for verification of Degrees from the University.

However, one of the schools I emailed was not interested in contacting my University, although I told them I would be happy to give them written permission. I can only assume that they weren't prepared to pay for the phone call/stamp.

Instead, they have asked that I take my documents to the British embassy for verification. I have never heard of this before. I guess it makes sense as the embassy should be able to check. Before I do anything though, I would like your members feedback.

Has anyone heard of this process before?

If yes, then what does this process involve?

How long does it take?

How much does it cost?

I looked on The British embassy website and there are lots of different kinds of verification; all with different fees. Quite a business!

Your input will be extremely welcome.

Wazza69

[PeaceBlondie]

kenkaniff is British, and should be along shortly. But I think he's said recently that as far as he knows, the UK embassy doesn't really do that. There may be an expensive process by which they "notarize" your self-serving statement with a meaningless statement that they saw you say that. I'm using American terms; don't know the British term.

In other words, nobody seems to think the rumour about the embassy is meaningful. Ne'ertheless, if the notorisation or whatever they call it isn't too expensive, and they stamp your self-serving statement, maybe the school is dumb enough to accept that. You can tell her it's a big crime in the UK to lie to the embassy; that's probably true.

We're not surprised that the schools want to be able to show that they made the applicant pay for his own self-authentication.

[wazza69]

kenkaniff is British, and should be along shortly. But I think he's said recently that as far as he knows, the UK embassy doesn't really do that. There may be an expensive process by which they "notarize" your self-serving statement with a meaningless statement that they saw you say that. I'm using American terms; don't know the British term.

In other words, nobody seems to think the rumour about the embassy is meaningful. Ne'ertheless, if the notorisation or whatever they call it isn't too expensive, and they stamp your self-serving statement, maybe the school is dumb enough to accept that. You can tell her it's a big crime in the UK to lie to the embassy; that's probably true.

We're not surprised that the schools want to be able to show that they made the applicant pay for his own self-authentication.

Thanks very much for the quick response.

I had thought that I would have to sign a release form and leave my documents there for a few days while they checked with the university.

If it is just a case of paying through the nose to get a meaningless piece of paper, I guess it really is just a waste of time. Perhaps the school is just trying to find an easy way to appease the MOE without any effort or financial burden of their own.

Wazza69

[gpt]

The British Embassy will certify a copy of your degree. Take your original degree with you along with a photocopy and about 1100 Baht. They will take the original and copy from you and stamp on the copy that "This is a true copy of X's degree certificate'. Quite meaningless really but it keeps schools happy! Drop the papers off one day and pick them up the next.

[wazza69]

The British Embassy will certify a copy of your degree. Take your original degree with you along with a photocopy and about 1100 Baht. They will take the original and copy from you and stamp on the copy that "This is a true copy of X's degree certificate'. Quite meaningless really but it keeps schools happy! Drop the papers off one day and pick them up the next.

It does sound like an easy way to make the schools happy, but I suppose the real question is will it make the MOE happy?

Anything else is pointless unless it passes muster with the new guidelines.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

[gpt]

Sorry forgot to add about keeping the MOE happy - Yes!

Edited September 10, 2006 by gpt

[wazza69]

Sorry forgot to add about keeping the MOE happy - Yes!

Cheers!

Do you know what the embassy calls this service?

[gpt]

Certifying a copy - cost 1313Baht

[paully]

The British Embassy will certify a copy of your degree. Take your original degree with you along with a photocopy and about 1100 Baht. They will take the original and copy from you and stamp on the copy that "This is a true copy of X's degree certificate'. Quite meaningless really but it keeps schools happy! Drop the papers off one day and pick them up the next.

How utterly ridiculous! The school itself can get a true copy of your degree certificate by, er, taking the original from you, placing it on the photocopier and pressing 'print'. The British Embassy would not be in any sense verifying that it is a genuine degree certificate issued by the institution named. Only the university/college could do that. What a waste of 1,300 baht.

[gpt]

Whilst agreeing with the previous poster that it is a futile exercise but that is what I and 3 fellow teachers had to do. The degree is not verified but the schools and the MOE want the official Embassy stamp on the photocopy. Nowhere in my posts did it say anything about verifying, only certifying. The school can get a 'true' copy from any photocopier but the Embassy stamp is needed. I think the rationale behind this is that if you had a fake degree you would be reluctant to offer it to your Embassy.

[mbkudu]

Just a note to any Americans who might think of trying this with the US embassy: Don't waste your time going there. I did, and they flatly told me they do not do it, and have not done it since 1993. They then said my only option was to contact a lawyer and have him deal with it. This was to have a high school diploma and transcripts certified. The Ministry of Education are in the process of doing it for me

for a fee.

Edited September 10, 2006 by mbkudu

[wazza69]

Well at the very least I'm happy I'm not the only person who has been asked to do this. It sounded strange at the outset and seems even stranger now.

As I stated in my previous posts, I had never heard of this before and I thought at the very least that the process would involve the Embassy checking with the University and verifying the Degree as real.

Saying it is a copy of an original certainly doesn't prove anything. The schools in question probably mistakenly believe that having the Embassy seal means more than it really does. However if there are no actual checks made and they simply stamp the copy then the embassy staff wouldn't know if it was real or not.

But if this is what they want then this is what they will get. I wonder how many other schools are using this system because they can't be bothered to do the checks required.

[mbkudu]

Well at the very least I'm happy I'm not the only person who has been asked to do this. It sounded strange at the outset and seems even stranger now.

As I stated in my previous posts, I had never heard of this before and I thought at the very least that the process would involve the Embassy checking with the University and verifying the Degree as real.

Saying it is a copy of an original certainly doesn't prove anything. The schools in question probably mistakenly believe that having the Embassy seal means more than it really does. However if there are no actual checks made and they simply stamp the copy then the embassy staff wouldn't know if it was real or not.

But if this is what they want then this is what they will get. I wonder how many other schools are using this system because they can't be bothered to do the checks required.

They would be certifying it as an original fake. "We certify that this is a real fake degree."

[PeaceBlondie]

I can't imagine that diplomatic officers and Foreign Service officers are trained to identify fake copies of alll kinds of documents.

I think this is a great example of the PURE SILLINESS that teachers will be asked to go through. Then, if another incident like John Mark Karr comes along, the school can say to the local journalists, "Oh, the foreign embassy GUARANTEED to us, that it was a real degree."

Oops: this puts some nationalities at a distinct advantage: the Brits, Scots, and Welsh can get their embassy to verify/check/spit upon their degrees, but Americans can't. Unfair!!

[jdinasia]

lol you could get them to notarize that they made the copy Peace

[gpt]

They would be certifying it as an original fake. "We certify that this is a real fake degree.

This is to certify that the above is a true copy of a sentence on thaivisa.com. (Signature/date)

I just done a cut and paste so I know that the copy is a true one. If I were to send mbkudu a pm asking him did he write that sentence and he replied with a 'yes' then it would be verified.

Could the Embassy certify a copy a fake degree? Yes. They are just certifying that the photocopy is a true copy of the document that was handed in.

[mbkudu]

The relevant authorities in Thailand could always ask the relevant authorities in Taiwan and Japan for advice on how they do it, but it is doubtful they want to know. What a crock of sh!t this whole thread is. I love Thailand.

[wazza69]

The relevant authorities in Thailand could always ask the relevant authorities in Taiwan and Japan for advice on how they do it, but it is doubtful they want to know. What a crock of sh!t this whole thread is. I love Thailand.

Oh God!

I'm sorry I wrote anything now. This thread is painful!

Everyone, please accept my apologies fpr starting this and don't waste any more time on it.

I should have known better than to think there was logic behind the school's request.

[mbkudu]

The relevant authorities in Thailand could always ask the relevant authorities in Taiwan and Japan for advice on how they do it, but it is doubtful they want to know. What a crock of sh!t this whole thread is. I love Thailand.

Oh God!

I'm sorry I wrote anything now. This thread is painful!

Everyone, please accept my apologies fpr starting this and don't waste any more time on it.

I should have known better than to think there was logic behind the school's request.

Don't get all flustered now. What I meant was that the idea itself and what the authorities are trying to pull off is a crock of sh!t, not the discussion itself. Are you ok with that?

[wazza69]

I was only joking!

My latest comments were simply a sigh of desperation with the current situation.

And as that rhymes it is very obvious to me I've been thinking about this far too much for today. I will rejoin the discussion tomorrow and look forward to my fellow members continued comments.

I really do appreciate everyones input.

[mbkudu]

I was only joking!

My latest comments were simply a sigh of desperation with the current situation.

And as that rhymes it is very obvious to me I've been thinking about this far too much for today. I will rejoin the discussion tomorrow and look forward to my fellow members continued comments.

I really do appreciate everyones input.

As long as your degree is genuine you have no worries. I did visa runs for years and years back in the day with no work permit obviously. One thing I never ever considered was the fake degree route. Dodging the law is one thing, but outright deception and forgery is another.

Just do what they want and get their silly stamp and you should be fine.

[PeaceBlondie]

But, are visa runs changing dramatically on October 1, 2006? Read the incredibly long threads on the Visas Forum here, along with 400 other farang, and you'll find that things are getting even more worser for teachers who don't work at perfectly legal Thai schools, even teachers with perfectly fine paperwork.

[kenkannif]

^ Won't change IMO PB mate.....in fact the article really makes no sense at all to be honest with you!

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, as reported in the Bangkok Post, the reporter apparently didn't understand whatever the chief Immigration guy was saying.

[Loaded]

I love Thailand

[mbkudu]

Just a note to any Americans who might think of trying this with the US embassy: Don't waste your time going there. I did, and they flatly told me they do not do it, and have not done it since 1993. They then said my only option was to contact a lawyer and have him deal with it. This was to have a high school diploma and transcripts certified. The Ministry of Education are in the process of doing it for me

for a fee.

If anyone is interested; I took my high school transcripts and diploma to the Ministry of Education here in Bangkok last August and paid 500 baht to get them authenticated. All they do is check with my high school that I graduated and the year and it's done. This was for the purpose of studying here, but surely they could do the same for someone wanting to get their degree authenticated for applying for a job. I'm not sure why my university here asked us to do it ourselves, but they did, but anyway, it was easy and not too costly. It took a total of 90 days to get it done.

[Loaded]

90 days to get it done. So let's look at the school hiring process - teacher signs contract let's say May 1st (school responsible for providing wp), the teachers certificates are authenticated (90 days), then the school begins wp process BUT the single-entry non-immB visa the teacher obtained before May 1st from Penang has now expired. No wp for mr farang. Nr farang not happy, calls the school lots of names and leaves. School needs new teacher(s).

If nothing else Thais are pragmatists - they will do what needs to be done to get the job done - not authenticate but say they have - problem solved.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Loaded

[mbkudu]

90 days to get it done. So let's look at the school hiring process - teacher signs contract let's say May 1st (school responsible for providing wp), the teachers certificates are authenticated (90 days), then the school begins wp process BUT the single-entry non-immB visa the teacher obtained before May 1st from Penang has now expired. No wp for mr farang. Nr farang not happy, calls the school lots of names and leaves. School needs new teacher(s).

If nothing else Thais are pragmatists - they will do what needs to be done to get the job done - not authenticate but say they have - problem solved.

I apologise for that. It was not 90 days; it was a month and a half basically. It was a brain lapse on my part. I applied for it on August 10, 2006 and it was ready October 1, 2006. It can, however, take up to 90 days depending on the country where the diploma or degree was earned. Mine was in the US, but other students from China, the Philipines and Africa have had longer waiting periods due to translation issues and other red tape. All the professors at my university have to have their degrees verified at either the MOE or their respective embassies before getting hired. A Canadian professor told me he had his verified at the Canadian Embassy before he was hired.

Edited October 5, 2006 by mbkudu