Land Office ..Boundaries

[NigelKennedy]

A friend bought some land with a chanote...The land office measured

and marked the neighbouring 2 rai.

The neighbours put their fence up.

My friend had the land office come out and mark her 2 rai..turns out

the team that measured the neighbours plot were wrong and didn't bother to find the original markers...The team that measured friends plot found the original markers and discovered neighbour had 1 metre of friends plot.

Now land office are saying tough because my friend should have objected within 30 days the 1 metre

belongs to neighbour. Can this be correct as my friend said she would not know neighbours marking

was wrong and would know when land office came to measure hers..

Surely two wrongs don't make a right.(it's 1 metre x 70 metres)

Anybody any ideas..what do.

[bangmai]

That is similar to a builder friend's biggest mistake on his 13 house project in HH. His back wall was built about 50 cm on his neighbors property. Unfortunately, it was about 100 meters long. He had to settle with the owner and buy the land at full retail, which was 8K per wah, when purchased, but 30K at settlement time. He actually suspected an inside job. It seems like you would do a third party survey here. It would be required to do a fence near or on a property line in the US. The original stake(s) were likely recorded onto the chinot. It seems like you first need to identify, when and where, and by whom the first error was made. Did the owner subdivide himself, and then worry about details later?

Is there a difference in the location of the boundary on the other chinot vs. your friend's? Were the chinots made at different times?

Edited May 19, 2015 by bangmai

[Dante99]

Often/usually the land office notifies adjacent land owners if they are measuring so the adjacent owners have a chance to agree or object. It is possible that your friend received such notice and failed to respond or your friend failed to see signs announcing the measuring which the land office puts up usually. If so they may be out of luck.

What ever, if you buy land even with a chanote it is always best to have the land office measure it before you buy then you can put in Posts at the markers. An old measurement on a chanote is not worth much.

There is risk if people fail to fence their land.

I doubt third party surveys here would have much value since the land office does surveys unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Dante99

[bangmai]

considering that the 17.5 wah could be worth nearly a million usd in parts of BKK; it seems like there would be more of a remedy than TIT, your SOL. Some diligence is missing here.

[bangmai]

unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Thomas Jefferson, his father Peter, and George Washington to name a few well known government surveyors.

[apetley]

Often/usually the land office notifies adjacent land owners if they are measuring so the adjacent owners have a chance to agree or object. It is possible that your friend received such notice and failed to respond or your friend failed to see signs announcing the measuring which the land office puts up usually. If so they may be out of luck.

What ever, if you buy land even with a chanote it is always best to have the land office measure it before you buy then you can put in Posts at the markers. An old measurement on a chanote is not worth much.

There is risk if people fail to fence their land.

I doubt third party surveys here would have much value since the land office does surveys unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Yes that is what happened with the land we bought.

Land office came out and did a resurvey. Moved a few of the posts but they were only out by a maximum of 30cms.

Then wifey had to go round and get signatures from the adjoining land owners saying that they agreed with the positioning of the marker posts.

[bangmai]

Often/usually the land office notifies adjacent land owners if they are measuring so the adjacent owners have a chance to agree or object. It is possible that your friend received such notice and failed to respond or your friend failed to see signs announcing the measuring which the land office puts up usually. If so they may be out of luck.

What ever, if you buy land even with a chanote it is always best to have the land office measure it before you buy then you can put in Posts at the markers. An old measurement on a chanote is not worth much.

There is risk if people fail to fence their land.

I doubt third party surveys here would have much value since the land office does surveys unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Yes that is what happened with the land we bought.

Land office came out and did a resurvey. Moved a few of the posts but they were only out by a maximum of 30cms.

Then wifey had to go round and get signatures from the adjoining land owners saying that they agreed with the positioning of the marker posts.

were the original posts from an official survey, withe coordinates recorded on chinots, or more like an owner subdividing his/her land without a proper survey, and then reconciling it years later?

[NigelKennedy]

The land is an old failed moo ban divided up and marked out with posts 20 years ago...

[eyecatcher]

I would ask for another remeasure; and with the cooperation of the neighbour agree the correct alignment of his fence.

if that fails then the suggestion to buy the stolen piece of land.

if that fails; then suggest they are tresspassing.

surely the land surveyors have a duty of care when it comes to official boundary markings; otherwise the original landowner may have duped the vendors into buying more than they actually have.

We bought a 100 wah and I have measured it accurately a couple of times. Always comes up 3 wah short however hard I look. Then I can see that the new plot fence is actually set about 100/150mm inside the 3 neighbours boundaries.

I am thinking I have the opportunity to gain a little bit more with no one the wiser.

[bangmai]

it has to be measured by a horizontal line.....a piece of land with a 15 degree slope will have 1.12%+ more land area.

Edited May 19, 2015 by bangmai

[ksamuiguy]

Is it not the Responsibility of The Royal Thai Land Department to provide a Certified land survey and resulting markings.

If you can not Trust them, what is your choice?

[mascarabertha]

That is similar to a builder friend's biggest mistake on his 13 house project in HH. His back wall was built about 50 cm on his neighbors property. Unfortunately, it was about 100 meters long. He had to settle with the owner and buy the land at full retail, which was 8K per wah, when purchased, but 30K at settlement time. He actually suspected an inside job. It seems like you would do a third party survey here. It would be required to do a fence near or on a property line in the US. The original stake(s) were likely recorded onto the chinot. It seems like you first need to identify, when and where, and by whom the first error was made. Did the owner subdivide himself, and then worry about details later?

Is there a difference in the location of the boundary on the other chinot vs. your friend's? Were the chinots made at different times?

blissfully your friend can absorb that loss by charging 45,000 Baht a month for the property

[Dante99]

unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Thomas Jefferson, his father Peter, and George Washington to name a few well known government surveyors.

read "do not", not "did not"

[bangmai]

unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Thomas Jefferson, his father Peter, and George Washington to name a few well known government surveyors.

read "do not", not "did not"

http://www.hamiltoncounty.in.gov/department/?structureid=33 just one example of thousands, where there is a county surveyor, who actually does surveys.

read: does, did, will.

[bangmai]

That is similar to a builder friend's biggest mistake on his 13 house project in HH. His back wall was built about 50 cm on his neighbors property. Unfortunately, it was about 100 meters long. He had to settle with the owner and buy the land at full retail, which was 8K per wah, when purchased, but 30K at settlement time. He actually suspected an inside job. It seems like you would do a third party survey here. It would be required to do a fence near or on a property line in the US. The original stake(s) were likely recorded onto the chinot. It seems like you first need to identify, when and where, and by whom the first error was made. Did the owner subdivide himself, and then worry about details later?

Is there a difference in the location of the boundary on the other chinot vs. your friend's? Were the chinots made at different times?

blissfully your friend can absorb that loss by charging 45,000 Baht a month for the property

for each of the two he owns. Rents aren't quite that high in Saraphee, are they?

[apetley]

Often/usually the land office notifies adjacent land owners if they are measuring so the adjacent owners have a chance to agree or object. It is possible that your friend received such notice and failed to respond or your friend failed to see signs announcing the measuring which the land office puts up usually. If so they may be out of luck.

What ever, if you buy land even with a chanote it is always best to have the land office measure it before you buy then you can put in Posts at the markers. An old measurement on a chanote is not worth much.

There is risk if people fail to fence their land.

I doubt third party surveys here would have much value since the land office does surveys unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Yes that is what happened with the land we bought.

Land office came out and did a resurvey. Moved a few of the posts but they were only out by a maximum of 30cms.

Then wifey had to go round and get signatures from the adjoining land owners saying that they agreed with the positioning of the marker posts.

were the original posts from an official survey, withe coordinates recorded on chinots, or more like an owner subdividing his/her land without a proper survey, and then reconciling it years later?

Official posts with the ref number stamped on the top.

[Dante99]

unlike in the US where the land officials do not survey.

Thomas Jefferson, his father Peter, and George Washington to name a few well known government surveyors.

read "do not", not "did not"

http://www.hamiltoncounty.in.gov/department/?structureid=33 just one example of thousands, where there is a county surveyor, who actually does surveys.

read: does, did, will.

This topic is about survey of private property and the website you provided states:

" Does the office survey private property?

No. The office responsibility is maintaining section corners and maintaining regulated drains for the Drainage Board."

Sorry.

Do you want to try again?

[NigelKennedy]

Ok seems problem was resolved at the Land Office the team that marked the neighbours land are new staff and did not look for old markers.

The land office apologised to all parties and will re-mark correctly...only problem is my friend had to agree to pay to move the neighbours fence 80 cm to the right on both sides.

So she had to pay for land office mistake...If not she would have lost out as she did not object to markers within 30 days.So all resolved at a price.

[bangmai]

This topic is about survey of private property and the website you provided states:

" Does the office survey private property?

No. The office responsibility is maintaining section corners and maintaining regulated drains for the Drainage Board."

Sorry.

Do you want to try again?

What do you think a section corner is? Plat maps are public surveys....many done by government employees, many done by contractors, who are licensed by their perspective states. Shouldn't you be at the Synagogue tonight, instead of attempting to split legal hairs?

[eyecatcher]

In 1981 I was land suveying with a 100m chain; in 1982 i was land surveying with a theodolite.

In 1983 I wad lanf surveying with the all singing all dancing EDM.

In 2011 I was hiring EDM station theods and measuring plots for a few of you guys around Chiang Mai....

Yet officialdom here with locals doesnt even exist.

Do you wonder why we have so much to despair about.