The Surinder Singh route - UK holiday first then Spain - Possible?

[mattk1]

Hi guys,

I was hoping for some advice from anyone who has used the Surinder Singh immigration route to get their wife into the UK, as I will be taking the same steps this time next year.

First, I will outline a bit about my situation:

• Married to my Thai wife for 3 years and we are both aged 30

• We have 2 boys aged 3 years and 18 months (both have UK passports)

• I have been working full-time in a school ever since I arrived in Thailand

• We have visited my parents in the UK 2 times (2013 & 2014)

Next year I want to go back to the UK and settle down while our kids go to school in England, and although I’m able to get work in the UK with an income that would satisfy the minimum threshold set out by the government, I am not prepared to have to leave my wife and kids for 6 months whilst I do that.

So the Surinder Singh route is the best option for me since I have family in Spain and a place to live for the three months required before returning to the UK.

I would like to do the following in this order:

1. Take my wife and kids to the UK first for 1 or 2 months (apply for a visit visa for my wife)

We will be staying with my parents during this period of time (May/June 2016)

2. Whilst in the UK I would apply for a Spanish visit visa for my wife so that we can fly to Spain and commence the 3 month period of us living there.

We will be staying at house my uncle owns and I will take on some work at a local dive centre for the duration of our stay (the dive centre is owned by relatives of mine, if that’s relevant).

3. While living in Spain I will then apply for the EEA Surinder Singh route family permit for my wife to come back to the UK with me and settle.

For the steps I outlined above I have a couple of questions which I would like confirmation on, if there is anybody here who can help me out I’d be very grateful!

For step 2 above, am I able to easily apply for the visit visa to Spain whilst in the UK or does this have to be done whilst we are still in Thailand?

Also am I right to believe that my wife can only get a maximum of 3 months stay in Spain on that particular visa?

For step 3 above, am I right to believe that the EEA family permit is free, and how soon after arriving in Spain should I wait before I apply for it for my wife?

I am also unsure whether or not the Surinder Singh route still requires my wife to have a TB jab and English test certificate – can anyone confirm that for me?

I really appreciate any advice or help here guys, this forum has some very knowledgeable people and I am very grateful for that!

Thank you very much and have a great day :-)

[7by7]

To qualify under the Surinder Singh route you and your wife need to have been living in Spain with you exercising an economic treaty right there.

These rights are:

• student;
• job seeker;
• worker, employed or self employed;
• living off independent means, e.g. a pension.

A ruling by the European court in O and B v The Netherlands, clarified this.

The main points of that ruling are

1. A residence period of at least three months is required (para 54)

2. Weekend visits and holidays do not count as residence for this purpose (para 59)

3. Any citizen of the Union can potentially benefit from this right, not just workers and the self employed (references to Article 7 of Citizens Directive 2004/38 , e.g. para 56, and to Article 21 of the TFEU, e.g. para 54)

4. During the period of residence family life must have been “created or strengthened” (para 51)

5. Abuse is impermissible (para 58)

However, despite point 3, the UK still insist that the British partner has been working, employed or self employed, in the other EEA state. You say you will be, so that should be OK, but you will need to prove it via pay slips, tax payments etc.

Part 9 of the UK's regulations

Family members of British citizens

9. (1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a British citizen as if the British citizen (“P”) were an EEA national.

(2) The conditions are that—

(a) P is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom;
.
( b ) if the family member of P is P’s spouse or civil partner, the parties are living together in the EEA State or had entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in the EEA State before the British citizen returned to the United Kingdom; and
.
© the centre of P’s life has transferred to the EEA State where P resided as a worker or self-employed person.

(3) Factors relevant to whether the centre of P’s life has transferred to another EEA State include—

(a) the period of residence in the EEA State as a worker or self-employed person;

( b ) the location of P’s principal residence;

© the degree of integration of P in the EEA State.

(4) Where these Regulations apply to the family member of P, P is to be treated as holding a valid passport issued by an EEA State for the purpose of the application of regulation 13 to that family member.

For more details, especially on the "centre of life" question, see European Operational Policy Team: Regulation 9 (Surinder Singh Cases)

With regard to your questions:

There is no reason why you and your family cannot visit your parents in the UK before moving to Spain, but your wife will, of course, need a UK visit visa.

There is also no reason why you cannot visit the UK whilst living in Spain; provided your wife obtains the relevant visa. If she meets the Surinder Singh requirements this will be a free EEA Family Permit; if not she'll need a UK visit visa.

N.B. it will be an EEA Family Permit she applies for when the time comes to move back to the UK.

I am not totally au fait with Spanish procedures, but as I understand it your wife applies for a standard 90 day Schengen visa and then once in Spain applies for a Spanish residence card under the EEA freedom of movement regulations.

As she is the spouse of an EEA national travelling/living with that EEA national (you) both applications will be free and she can apply for the first visa while a visitor in the UK.

Anyone entering or applying to remain in the UK via the EEA regulations, including Surinder Singh, does not need a TB certificate nor an English test.

Hope this helps.

Edit:-

There is a discussion between myself and the well respected member Seekingasylum on the "centre of life" requirement in this topic, which I recommend you read.

Edited May 31, 2015 by 7by7

[beano2274]

just to note that for Germany you are required to apply in the German Embassy in Bangkok for the Residence Card. I am not sure about the Spanish Embassy and its rulings, but as a side note, I got my wife to Germany on a Tourist Visa from the Italian Embassy as we had planned a holiday there, then went to the Auslanderamt (KVR)(place where all foreginers have to register) and got her Residence Permit there.

Ensure you pay tax and that both children accompany you to Spain, as you have to show that the centre of family life has either been created or strengthened, a good way to also achieve this is to get your wife to do a Spanish language course, get the kids into school, as everything helps. Ensure you register correctly at the local Government offices in Spain, the documents also help show a creation or strenghtening of family life.

Edited May 31, 2015 by beano2274

[beano2274]

The residence permit of Spain is not enough for her to gain entry to the UK, as it does not meet the Security requirements of the UK, unlike the German and Estonian Residence cards. She will still need a visa.

I am lucky that my wife has her German Residence Card and I also have a letter from the UKVI confirming that no Visa is required.

[7by7]

The residence permit of Spain is not enough for her to gain entry to the UK, as it does not meet the Security requirements of the UK, unlike the German and Estonian Residence cards. She will still need a visa.

Indeed

There is also no reason why you cannot visit the UK whilst living in Spain; provided your wife obtains the relevant visa. If she meets the Surinder Singh requirements this will be a free EEA Family Permit; if not she'll need a UK visit visa.

N.B. it will be an EEA Family Permit she applies for when the time comes to move back to the UK.

[mattk1]

Hi 7by7,

Thank you so much for posting all that information, I couldn't have asked for more!

Where you mention about working, yes you're right, I will be providing wage slips and I will also have a Spanish tax number as proof of my employment in Spain.

Your reply has been most helpful with the included links, I will read through them and take notes, thank you!

In response to beano2274, thank you very much for your reply, I am so grateful to hear of your experience in similar circumstances.

The Spanish residence card is something I had not considered for my wife as she won't be working, it will be considered like a holiday for her for the duration of the 90 day Schengen visa.

If that is the case, do I need to worry about the Spanish residence visa for her?

I pictured it as we spend the 3 months in Spain whilst I work and then to return to the UK after applying for the EEA family permit. Our kids will be with us for the 3 month duration which should strengthen the application.

I will also be looking into Spanish lessons while we are there, that is a really good idea

Thanks a lot guys, I am very grateful of your help

[beano2274]

If your wife is there with you get the residence card, without it she cannot prove that she has moved the centre of her life to Spain, the card is also normally valid as per the validity of her passport. A holiday does not count, am sure that 7by7 pasted it on this post or another.

She does not need to be working to get it, first you register her with the local authorities as well as yourself, then visit the local governnment office for the Residence permit, maybe in Spain it can all be done in one office. You have to pay for it, but think about the long term advantage about getting to the UK.

Another good poster on here is Donutz.

Edited June 1, 2015 by beano2274

[tebee]

The residence permit of Spain is not enough for her to gain entry to the UK, as it does not meet the Security requirements of the UK, unlike the German and Estonian Residence cards. She will still need a visa.

I am lucky that my wife has her German Residence Card and I also have a letter from the UKVI confirming that no Visa is required.

As of April 6th this year all EU residence cards are accepted - see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card

We did this on April 8th with French cards and got 6 months UK visa stamped in passports

Edited June 1, 2015 by tebee

[7by7]

Not all EEA residence cards, only those issued under Article 10 or Article 20 of the directive, and only if it says “Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen."

Plus, the Non EEA family member must be travelling with or to join their EEA family member, and should also carry evidence of the relationship, such as their marriage certificate.

From the above link

If you are the non-EEA national family member of an EEA national and you do not hold a residence card issued under Article 10 or Article 20 issued by an EEA Member State, you will need to apply for an EEA family permit before travelling to the UK with/to join your EEA family member.

[Donutz]

just to note that for Germany you are required to apply in the German Embassy in Bangkok for the Residence Card. I am not sure about the Spanish Embassy and its rulings, but as a side note, I got my wife to Germany on a Tourist Visa from the Italian Embassy as we had planned a holiday there, then went to the Auslanderamt (KVR)(place where all foreginers have to register) and got her Residence Permit there.

Ensure you pay tax and that both children accompany you to Spain, as you have to show that the centre of family life has either been created or strengthened, a good way to also achieve this is to get your wife to do a Spanish language course, get the kids into school, as everything helps. Ensure you register correctly at the local Government offices in Spain, the documents also help show a creation or strenghtening of family life.

It can never be demand that you must apply for residency (card) from BKK and thus entering on a D visa. It's an option and I think it's the way the Germans prefer it, but requesting a free type C (short visit) visa under the directive is also possible. After arrival you could then aplpy for residency, the residence card etc. Depending on how slow the Germans are with type D visas it might be quicker and easier to just get a type C visa (this should be given within 2 weeks while an immigration procedure from abroad may take months, months that you may wish to spent in Germany together instead).

So if the Germans told you " you must apply for a D visa" they'd be wrong and if you said " thank you for the advice but we wish a type C visa and leave for Germany in a few days/weeks" they should comply.

Not all EEA residence cards, only those issued under Article 10 or Article 20 of the directive, and only if it says “Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen."

Plus, the Non EEA family member must be travelling with or to join their EEA family member, and should also carry evidence of the relationship, such as their marriage certificate.

From the above link

If you are the non-EEA national family member of an EEA national and you do not hold a residence card issued under Article 10 or Article 20 issued by an EEA Member State, you will need to apply for an EEA family permit before travelling to the UK with/to join your EEA family member.

UKVI did only accept German and Estonian "family member of an EU/EEa citizen" residence cards but this was clearly a violation of Freedom of Movement and the ECJ in Luxembourg made the British accept this type of residence card from all other EU/EEA nations too (last years McCarty judgement). This article 10 type of card, should be enuogh when travling with the EU national. There is no legal requirement to provide further prove of family relation but it may indeed me wise to carry this nonetheless untill all border staff become familiar with how to properly apply the Freedom of Movement directive (and thus let holders of this type of card pass smoothyl and without stamping their passports or asking for further evidence).

Edited June 1, 2015 by Donutz

[tebee]

Not all EEA residence cards, only those issued under Article 10 or Article 20 of the directive, and only if it says “Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen."

Yes, I simplified it slightly, but in this case we are talking about British people doing the Surinder Singh route - in that case, if their spouse has a RC issued by another EEA state, it will be an Article 10 or Article 20 one. So it will apply here.

The only people who don't have these are perversely those who are the same nationality as the state they work in and have done that country's equivalent of the UK spouse visa, instead of the much simpler EEA one.

It's the British government being mean and spiteful again and interpreting a European court ruling in the narrowest way possible - I'm sure it will be challenged again soon in court. It only means that person has the inconvenience of having to apply for a free family permit. It's also somewhat ineffective as almost half the EEA counties issue article 10 cards to everyone including their own nationals.

[mattk1]

Hi guys,

Once again thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions and offer great advice, I can not tell you how much I appreciate it!

To beano2274, thanks for clarifying the residence card bit, got a lot to take in with all this new information and I have to make sure I get everything right.

I have also messaged a chap on here who went to Spain and used the Surinder Singh route to get his family back into the UK. I'm trying to gather as much information as possible and know all the ins and outs so that I don't end up getting caught out.

I have to remember that this is my right, not a backdoor shortcut and so long as I satisfy all the criteria, there is no reason why I shold be refused.