Lending The Thai Family Money

[petals]

It is important that you do visit the family. If you do not show, it will only mean that you have problem with the whole family. If the brother shows up, be nice to him too, last thing you do not want is to create uneasy atmosphere amongst the family members.

[terry57]

your biggest mistake is that you were trying to do the right thing by the brother.

as falang, we try to help out if we can if the request is not to much.

the rules being if the wife say's no, she knows best and leave it at that.

because you were trying to help out it has now back fired on you and caused <deleted> within the family.

your lucky your not fighting with the wife over this as she would be very pissed off i a imagine ?

put this little cracker down to experience and id be having a lager to celebrate losing only 15ooo k

and being liberated from the brother asking for money ever again.

your a lucky guy as heaps of punters would be partying if they lost only 15000 k.

in conclusion and to help you with your conundrum,

forget it ever happened, dont mention it again and put it down to a nice bit of experience.

what ever you do , dont let this come between your relationship with the family as you could come unstuck over a pissy 15000k.

good luck friend

[Spaniel]

Re post # 28 from Brahmburgers

I think your reasoning may apply to those who select bargirls. I have been married over 16 years and not one of your points applies to us. Maybe you and your friend are hanging around with the wrong crowd?

[the swagman]

Re post # 28 from Brahmburgers

I think your reasoning may apply to those who select bargirls. I have been married over 16 years and not one of your points applies to us. Maybe you and your friend are hanging around with the wrong crowd?

I have to agree.

I was married for near on twenty years and none of your points carry any weight.

[qualtrough]

I have a similar situation to yours, wife has one brother, parents run a shop, put kids through college, extremely thrifty, etc. I was asked one time long ago by the brother-in-law to loan some money for the purchase of a small flat. Probably a similar amount of money to yours, I forget the exact amount. I told my wife that I was not lending money for any speculative ventures, and that my responsibility was to her and our children. Only possible exception was if someone was sick or dying and needed medical help. But--in order to soften the blow I told her to tell him that my money was tied up in investments overseas and that I would be penalized for early withdrawal. The brother ended up getting a loan and all worked out well in the end. No repercussions, and no further loan requests either. He is a sober hard-working guy and the property he purchased worked out well. I am pretty confidant he would have paid me back, but why risk all that trouble? If you let it be known you are a soft touch you will be forever getting hit for loans, etc. and it will be difficult if not impossible to change that policy without affecting your relationship with your family. My advice to anyone would be to make it clear from the start that you are not an ATM machine or a bank and if they don't like it they can suck eggs. The advantage of that policy is that you will know who your real friends are. Saying that I know that this would be hard to implement with some families, so choose your in-laws well!

[tominchaam]

Well, thanks for all the replies, i'm gonna let it go, and think if it as a blessing. My gf told her mum and dad as soon as he hadn't paid it, I don't think they were too impressed, anyway i'm gonna act as if nothing happened, I'm not going to show ill feeling towards the Brother, if he ever mentions it or says he's going to pay me soon which he may next time I see him out of embaressment, i'll just say please make sure you pay soon as it's been a long time.

I don't think there's much point in being hostile towards him, that will just make others feel uncomfortable and I don't want that.

Any future requests for money will be flatly turned down from anyone and the valid reason of his non payment as reasons for me not being able to help others out.

When he one day needs to borrow money for a deposit on a house or something of similar importance he will no doubt feel extremely stupid when I remind him of his faliure to pay the last loan.

Congratulations!

Your new attitude to this problem is very mature and shows everone you play according to the book. You are likely to be shown a lot of respect from your relatives in years to come. Good luck!

[qualtrough]

A loan in Thailand translates to a 'grant' or 'gift.'

Only loan what you're willing to give away.

A westerner being with a Thai woman involves him giving money.

No money, no girl, no girlfriend, no wife.

One of the top questions a farang needs to ask himself when he wants to shack up with a Thai lady is:

How much am I willing to spend to stay with her?

If that amount is not sufficient in her view, there's either no relationship, or it's a strained one at best.

Any notions of romance, are best left for novels and videos. Regardless of what she might say about romance and love, her prime concerns are money (for her) and security for her family.

Unfortunately, farang men are so easily duped, that they keep getting on the conveyer belt of hopes and dreams for their entrancing Thai gals and dumped down the other end with dashed hopes and thin wallets.

Have to agree with the others who rubbished this post. Been married 11 years now, two kids, and have not experienced one of the issues raised by Brahmburger to be the case, not one.

[terry57]

I have a similar situation to yours, wife has one brother, parents run a shop, put kids through college, extremely thrifty, etc. I was asked one time long ago by the brother-in-law to loan some money for the purchase of a small flat. Probably a similar amount of money to yours, I forget the exact amount. I told my wife that I was not lending money for any speculative ventures, and that my responsibility was to her and our children. Only possible exception was if someone was sick or dying and needed medical help. But--in order to soften the blow I told her to tell him that my money was tied up in investments overseas and that I would be penalized for early withdrawal. The brother ended up getting a loan and all worked out well in the end. No repercussions, and no further loan requests either. He is a sober hard-working guy and the property he purchased worked out well. I am pretty confidant he would have paid me back, but why risk all that trouble? If you let it be known you are a soft touch you will be forever getting hit for loans, etc. and it will be difficult if not impossible to change that policy without affecting your relationship with your family. My advice to anyone would be to make it clear from the start that you are not an ATM machine or a bank and if they don't like it they can suck eggs. The advantage of that policy is that you will know who your real friends are. Saying that I know that this would be hard to implement with some families, so choose your in-laws well!

very nice post qualtrough,

strait to the point, spot on and abundant in common sense.

one thing though,

frigging hard to choose your in laws if you love your lady ?

bit hard to get around that one unless you move to bloody mongolia.

cheers friend

[chingching]

IMHO you are the one who blew it. U don't want to face up that fact by your unwillingness to just forget it. In your original post, u describe your gf's reaction to what u say was your brother-in-law's FIRST request for a loan. Her getting very angry, slamming the phone down, doesn't sound like his first request, doesn't sound like she didn't know what she was doing. Your fault for not listening to her, and know u want to punish her further by not visiting ma and pa.

Secondly he told u it would take a week to pay you back. Does this sound like someone who needs to go to the dentist? No it sounds like a gambling debt and he's planning on gambling more to pay you back. Guess what he didn't win.

[kmart]

Well, its only 15k; but I'd be damned if I let someone 'borrow" that from me without a backwards glance or saying something. The cultural deficiency of "losing face" can go hang; I hate compromise. Especially with peope who have a messed-up sense of mistaken entitlement to the falang's money. ###### right he wouldn't treat another Thai like that.

[jcgodber]

Like in any country-

Don't loan money.

If you must, make a gift of the money.

Jim

[Rdrokit]

As other posts said you are lucky you found out for only 15k. It took me 65k to find out. Never was paid back. The only good thing to happen is NO one asks me for money anymore because they already know the answer. Go visit the parents, don't take it out on them. If you do not go you will loose face.

[terry57]

Well, its only 15k; but I'd be damned if I let someone 'borrow" that from me without a backwards glance or saying something. The cultural deficiency of "losing face" can go hang; I hate compromise. Especially with peope who have a messed-up sense of mistaken entitlement to the falang's money. ###### right he wouldn't treat another Thai like that.

cricky's kmart,

im hearing you and also feel your logic is spot on my friend, but only if he was living in farang land.

if that happen'ed to me back here i'd be at the guys front door with a frigging baseball bat.

but im very sorry kmart, as we cant do that here, thats if we want to stay alive that is.

also if our friend causes to much <deleted> it might destroy his relationship with his wife and inlaws.

not worth it kmart. not for $535 aud.

jes--us mate,

ive spent that on a good night out on the turps.

look kmart,

ive been to your shopping centre mate, and she's a real cracking place with cheap prices, so thank you very much.

cheers friend

[marshbags]

If someone you are familar with asks for a loan.

Check what it,s for and judge it on it,s merits.

What ever they ask for offer a lower amount if you are prepared to help.

ONLY offer what you can afford to loose and don,t bank on getting it back.

Back in th U.K i will lend them an amount that i can afford to loose and have the following philosophy.

If they don,t repay it then it,s a good investment and they can never have anything else.

Usually if they don,t pay it back they never ask again.

The odd one that has i remind them that they did,nt pay the last loan back yet.

No offence to the people who have lent mega bucks but i think your judgement was not in keeping with your western upbringing, or where ever your routes are.

Use the above guidelines pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee to avoid animosity and embarrassment.

Especially in Thailand which is based on 14 years of associating with philanthropic people who are now much wiser ( and less wealthy ) i,m sad to say.

Lend me usually ends as give me in most cases.

marshbags

P.S.

I do often help poor people on a voluntary basis and usually ignore any verbal requests and begging.

Edited September 13, 2006 by marshbags

[meemiathai]

Rule No 1. is not "Never a borrower or lender be"

Rule No 1 is "Blood is thicker than water".

You've lent the brother money on agreed terms that he returns the loan by a certain date.

The date has passed and it is now clear the money is not going to be returned.

My advice, is let it go; don't mention the loan, put it at the back of your mind.

DO NOT press your g/f on the matter and certainly do not agree to anyone else repaying the loan.

DO remember this the if the brother ever calls for another loan - Refuse that loan point blank on the basis of his failure to repay this loan.

When you refuse any second request for a loan, do so calmly and without emotion, simply say 'No I can't lend him money, he didn't repay the last loan I made'.

DO NOT discuss the matter further.

That asside, my congratulations, Bht15K is pretty cheap to get rid of all future loans from the brother.

Well done that man!

A good post but actually you can carry it further. When hit up for a loan by anyone in the future just say, "sorry but the wife's brother didn't repay his loan yet; when he does I'll loan to you". This gets you off the hook AND makes the scoundral lose face even more.

Firstly, it's the gf and not the wife. Secondly, what wierd logic you have! That is going to make everyone lose face on spot! Just say "I don't have any money" and if they don't believe say "I owe the bank a lot of money" and don't lend.

BTW, seldom do I agree with GH but this time I do. It's one thing the brother not repaying and another thing the relationship between you and your gf and her family. Don't let this incident spoil the harmony.

but I feel I have lost face so don't really want to go, especially if he is going to be there

You are not going to lose face.(Based on the description of the family by you, dealing with a greedy family is a complete different thing) In fact you are going to gain a lot of face from whoever knows about the situation. You will show how considerate and big hearted a person you are.

I have only brought it up one time since, and I joked about him not paying back, it didn't go down well! So I havn't brought it up again.

That was very insensitive of you.(sorry for the critism) Your gf is having immense pressure on herself at the moment. Try comforting her by letting her know that her feelings is what you care most about. You'll gain points.

And for the brother, try to look at things from his angle. He needed money, he asked you, he had no money to pay you back after a week, too embarrassed to talk about the issue, so didn't phone.

It would be him who is losing face, who feels really embarrassed, who will have difficulty facing you.(again based on the description by you stating he was a good guy, dealing with a scoundrel will again be completely different) He might have bad habits like gambling or...? He might have overspent his salaries due to temptations. This is quite the same for human beings everywhere I guess. Talk to your gf that you are concerned that he is going to have a lot of future problems if he continues this same lifestyle.

Just my humble opinion.

[meemiathai]

Shame on your brother in-law. I disagree other poster who says that your wife lost face, its more like your brother inlaw who is loosing face.

First, i would ask my wife to let her parents know the situation so they're not shocked about the upcoming event. Second, I would definitely attend the family function and ask your brother in-law for the money in front of the whole family. I think this will cause such an embarassement to him that he'll have to pay up.

If you do this, Nooone will ever want to borrow money from you again and your brother in-law will never like you any more ..yippppeeee. All finanacial problem(s) solved.

If that don't work just puch him in the face and tell him to keep the freaking money for the doctors bill. After all, its really not that much (15000 baht = $375.00 approx?)

You must be one of womble's best friend.

[meemiathai]

Well, thanks for all the replies, i'm gonna let it go, and think if it as a blessing. My gf told her mum and dad as soon as he hadn't paid it, I don't think they were too impressed, anyway i'm gonna act as if nothing happened, I'm not going to show ill feeling towards the Brother, if he ever mentions it or says he's going to pay me soon which he may next time I see him out of embaressment, i'll just say please make sure you pay soon as it's been a long time.

I don't think there's much point in being hostile towards him, that will just make others feel uncomfortable and I don't want that.

[grapetable]

Hey Womble! Let it lay. His chickens will come home to roost eventually. I have discovered through seeing many tgf's who was really suited to me and visa versa. It cost me a fair bit to find the right one but it was worth it.

You have simply paid the price of experience and finding out whom you can trust. Sounds like you can trust your wifes wisdom.

thanks for the fishing tips.

take care

[meemiathai]

A loan in Thailand translates to a 'grant' or 'gift.'

Only loan what you're willing to give away.

A westerner being with a Thai woman involves him giving money.

No money, no girl, no girlfriend, no wife.

One of the top questions a farang needs to ask himself when he wants to shack up with a Thai lady is:

How much am I willing to spend to stay with her?

If that amount is not sufficient in her view, there's either no relationship, or it's a strained one at best.

Any notions of romance, are best left for novels and videos. Regardless of what she might say about romance and love, her prime concerns are money (for her) and security for her family.

Unfortunately, farang men are so easily duped, that they keep getting on the conveyer belt of hopes and dreams for their entrancing Thai gals and dumped down the other end with dashed hopes and thin wallets.

Maybe my good looks and personality have pulled away most of the women I met to try to look into my wallet?

Women won't love you for no reason. It's either your money or your person.

Having said that, I feel sorry for you.

[meemiathai]

Re post # 28 from Brahmburgers

I think your reasoning may apply to those who select bargirls. I have been married over 16 years and not one of your points applies to us. Maybe you and your friend are hanging around with the wrong crowd?

I have to agree.

I was married for near on twenty years and none of your points carry any weight.

Sorry I disagree. BGs know better what to choose when it comes to men, in general.

That's why they chose money in his case.

[qualtrough]

If you really think you must make a loan why not ask for some collateral? That is not an unheard of concept here. If they sincerely want/need the money and intend to pay surely they would be willing to place something they own of value in your hands as collateral? If they have nothing, or if they are unwilling to offer anything up, the chances that your loan will become a 'gift' have just increased dramatically. Anybody asking you for a loan is asking you a really big favor. If they are unwilling to return the favor by doing something that minimizes your risk then they are imposing on your good will and you should not feel any obligation to them whatsoever. That is the way I would operate, but if others want to do differently that is their business.

[liketobe]

Stop! Don't say any thing to family period! If he says some thing about it just smile, could be a line of s.it or may pay back makes no difference. It's your chance to show family that your wise and confident-keep your mouth shut about it even if some one else brings it up, cheep lesson learned. Tell your girl friend that you should have followed her because she knows better about these family things. You are so fortionate to have a girl like that you could be with some one that has no back bone at all and telling you to give-give-give you hansom ATM

[pgrin]

Send Stewie

[the swagman]

Re post # 28 from Brahmburgers

I think your reasoning may apply to those who select bargirls. I have been married over 16 years and not one of your points applies to us. Maybe you and your friend are hanging around with the wrong crowd?

I have to agree.

I was married for near on twenty years and none of your points carry any weight.

Sorry I disagree. BGs know better what to choose when it comes to men, in general.

That's why they chose money in his case.

That's what we're saying.

I think Brahmburgers should widen his range of field when discussing all Thai ladies, not just BGs.

[The Skipper]

Next time I am asked for a loan, I will have them give me some gold as collateral.

For a 15,000bt loan, ask for 20,000 in gold, have it weighed, and tell them that after the payment is late, the gold will be sold, making a tidy profit.

Now, it's their problem, not mine.

[womble]

I guess i've learnt a lot though. It's proved that my gf isn't the type to agree to any demands by family members as she flatly turned him down. I wanted to help her try and gain face in the family by lending it to him, which would have been good if he's paid it back, but he's messed up so now he loses face. The thing was my gf made it extremely clear that should he fail to pay this back it would be very serious and make her and the family look very bad. Really when you think of it, he's let the whole family down, as it's certainly not the way other family members seem to behave. I guess the thing is we still come out of this looking good as we have shown that we are good hearted and were happy to help. We also havn't made a big thing out of him not paying it back, which I guess would be looked on favourably by the family.

If we turn down a future request from him and let the family know that we had to turn it down, then hopefully we will gain a bit of respect as even though we are happy to help someone we are not mugs and don't lend money to those that have made no effort no pay back previous depts.

I'm wondering if he'll ask for $ again thinking he can get handouts as I have only got her to ask for the money once. Maybe he thinks i'm a pushover and will come knocking again?

Time will tell.

The thing is I know it seems many Thai's view lent money from farang as a gift, but the way my gf explained how bad it was if he didn't pay back I think made it clear it wasn't.

Or is it possible he could still see it that he doesn't need to pay it back as I have enough money and can afford to give it to him?

[Unknown]

any advise?

Don't lend him money anymore.

Brothers never pay back...

[phibunmike]

A loan in Thailand translates to a 'grant' or 'gift.'

Only loan what you're willing to give away.

A westerner being with a Thai woman involves him giving money.

No money, no girl, no girlfriend, no wife.

One of the top questions a farang needs to ask himself when he wants to shack up with a Thai lady is:

How much am I willing to spend to stay with her?

If that amount is not sufficient in her view, there's either no relationship, or it's a strained one at best.

Any notions of romance, are best left for novels and videos. Regardless of what she might say about romance and love, her prime concerns are money (for her) and security for her family.

Unfortunately, farang men are so easily duped, that they keep getting on the conveyer belt of hopes and dreams for their entrancing Thai gals and dumped down the other end with dashed hopes and thin wallets.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience. Hope things impriove for you in the future

[phibunmike]

Dont boycott family gathering because of him, go if he is there just be cold to him. Dont laugh at his jokes etc. be nice to the family and like I said before. Dont penalise the family because of him. Thais have strong family ties and you should not boycott them as they may think you are bitter at them for there son not paying you back

Why not boycott the family? Who do you think it was that raised him to be like this? Do you really think they are any different? If this debt was owed to a Thai you can be certain that the entire extended family would come together to make sure it got repaid one way or another.

Where is the family? Bangkok? Suburb of Bangkok? Countryside?

I am going out on a limb here.

I agree with Donz and most of the other posters in saying what is done is done and learn the lesson well.

I will disagree with fxm88 totally.

Your attitude shows a complete lack of understanding of Thai culture.

Point by point - because it would be rude to the family who seem to accepted you as one of the family and who don't look at you as a money point.

- Nobody raised him to be like this. He thought of this all by himself. He is (ir)responsible for himself.

From personal experience Yes, I do think they are different. It's amazing what life teaches us. We all lose a bit of the optimism and responsibility our parents tried to install in us as time goes on and as life goes on.

If the debt wasto a Thai, the whole family would gather round. Come on man, the guy is 30 plus. Time to stand on your own two feet. Many parents think like that.

What difference where the family is from.

Middle class, reasonable jobs, trying to get by honestly. That what it sounds like to me.

Poor, scraping to make a baht, ATM machine, it doesn't sound like it.

Try to be a little less cynical fxm88, please.

You chose the place to live.

Swagman > agree with you 100 percent.

Donz > Agree with you too (except I would treat him in a civil manner so the family doesn't lose face, everyone knows already so no need to re-enforce it).

[Nam Kao]

Seriously if it was one of my brother in laws that did that to me i would kick his a$$

This is the Thai way and i would save face even if i lost.

By doing nothing I have lost face with everyone. This is upcountry "face" protocol, BKK

may differ.

Good luck

nam