2010 crackdown: NACC gets new evidence

[webfact]

2010 CRACKDOWN
NACC gets new evidence
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) has received new information related to the impeachment case against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his then-deputy Suthep Thaugsuban in relation to charges over the 2010 crackdown.

NACC member Wicha Mahakun said the agency had received additional information and evidence from National Legislative Assembly (NLA) member Somchai Sawaengkarn, who was a former chief of the sub-panel that followed up on political cases that resulted in deaths and casualties.

Wicha said Somchai had handed the evidence to the NACC panel in charge of Abhisit and Suthep's impeachment, adding that this data had not been revealed earlier, especially in relation to the death of General Romklao Thuwatham in April, 2010.

The NACC member said the information provided by Somchai was detailed and in depth as he had teamed up with a number of specialists as well as government and military officials to look into what really happened during the crackdown.

Wichai said the information could not be revealed at this stage as the NACC panel working on impeaching the former ministers had to present the data to the commission for consideration first.

The NACC might also invite involved individuals to provide more information.

Wicha, meanwhile, insisted that the information provided by Somchai was neutral as he had acted on behalf of the Parliament and not on a personal basis.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/NACC-gets-new-evidence-30262081.html


-- The Nation 2015-06-11

[Mango Bob]

Oh gosh, look what I just found.

[tbthailand]

he had teamed up with a number of specialists as well as government and military officials to look into what really happened during the crackdown.

can't imagine what they will come up with if the 'government' and military have been working on this...

The General, and current 'PM' has consistently denied any responsibility on the part of the military - "My subordinates did not kill anyone, but they were shot at," he said.

As for the events surrounding the death of then colonel romklao, it has always been incomprehensible why the action to clear the protesters began just prior to nightfall. Additionally, it would seem clear that the colonel was not facing your average protesters...

[englishoak]

oh wonder of wonders... new evidence now after all this time... how lucky is that ?

Edited June 11, 2015 by englishoak

[robblok]

oh wonder of wonders... new evidence now after all this time... how lucky is that ?

Not so lucky.. quite possible that the evidence was suppressed.. The official PTP party line was that there were no black-shirts.

Though pictures and videos prove they exist and used the same weapons as the army.. so knowing who killed who is kinda hard.

Not like what the PTP did.. hey these are bullets fired with high powered rifles.. its army. (conveniently forgetting the black-shirts)

[arrowsdawdle]

Oh gosh, look what I just found.

Had to kwell the dissenting voices with martial law, article 44, impeachments, and "attitude adjustments" before 'finding' new evidence? What about withholding evidence?

[Robby nz]

In relation to the death of General Romklao Thuwatham in April, 2010.

The Generals (promoted posthumously) widow repeated asked, pleaded and begged Tarit to investigate his death and was ignored. Although it was reported in the BKK Post on the 12 April 2012 that Tarit said he was killed by 'men in red'. You know why no link.

Could some of this "New" information have been secreted away by the two in charge of the DSI and CAPO as it implicated the wrong people ?

That would certainly account for the reluctance to act on the widows requests.

As for why has it come to light now ? Well it has only just been asked for now as this is the first time Abhisit and Suthep have been required to produce defense.

Sure there have been inquests but they have been carefully selected ones which PT thought they could pin on the military, even then most have been inconclusive including the tragic death of the Japanese cameraman: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/821519-court-refuses-to-pinpoint-which-side-killed-japanese-cameraman-in-2010/

According to the BKK Post some of this new evidence includes photos and videos of the MIB and the red leaders and PT would not have wanted that seen as their story is that they never existed.

It must be getting closer and closer to the time when the red leaders are called on to explain their part in the riots.

[In Town]

Great! Now we will know what "really happened".

[Artisi]

Bugger me, look what I found stuffed behind the cushion on the sofa.

Can you actually believe anything that comes from the mouth of these people who have had full control of everything going on in this country for far too many years (decades) all spirited away either in hiding so as not to implicate their mates or saved for a rainy day to sink their enemies.

TIT indeed

[rubl]

We don't know yet what info was presented, but the attacks on it already started. As if new information can only be bad to some.

[graft]

In relation to the death of General Romklao Thuwatham in April, 2010.

The Generals (promoted posthumously) widow repeated asked, pleaded and begged Tarit to investigate his death and was ignored. Although it was reported in the BKK Post on the 12 April 2012 that Tarit said he was killed by 'men in red'. You know why no link.

Could some of this "New" information have been secreted away by the two in charge of the DSI and CAPO as it implicated the wrong people ?

That would certainly account for the reluctance to act on the widows requests.

As for why has it come to light now ? Well it has only just been asked for now as this is the first time Abhisit and Suthep have been required to produce defense.

Sure there have been inquests but they have been carefully selected ones which PT thought they could pin on the military, even then most have been inconclusive including the tragic death of the Japanese cameraman: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/821519-court-refuses-to-pinpoint-which-side-killed-japanese-cameraman-in-2010/

According to the BKK Post some of this new evidence includes photos and videos of the MIB and the red leaders and PT would not have wanted that seen as their story is that they never existed.

It must be getting closer and closer to the time when the red leaders are called on to explain their part in the riots.

So far there have been inquests held into 30 of the deaths in 2010. Of those 30 deaths, judges have ruled that the military were responsible for 18 deaths (60%), the remaining 12 inquests were inconclusive due to insufficient evidence. Another 60 odd inquests to go then, though these should conclude relatively quickly now that seven retired officers from the military court have joined the DSI investigations............................or not.

"The cases have seen very slow progress," said Jatuporn Prompan, chairman of the Redshirt umbrella organization, the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD). "The new committee will have many military men. I am afraid that it won't be transparent and fair."

He added, "I also want to know, about this new committee, are they going to restart or continue works from the older committee? And I want to know about the progress of the cases and direction of the investigators. For the cases that have been proven that their deaths were caused by security officers, how will the government proceed with it?"

DSI Director Suwanna did not answer Jatuporn's questions directly, but insisted that the addition of the seven retired military officers to the DSI teams will not affect the inquest results.

"We want to work transparently, and we want every side to have confidence in our works," she said. "I insist that we don't have any pre-concieved verdicts in these cases."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1428403257&section=00

[In Town]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

Edited June 11, 2015 by In Town

[rubl]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

[In Town]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

[ExPratt]

Going to be stitch up isn't it , surprise witnesses and everything

[Robby nz]

Going to be stitch up isn't it , surprise witnesses and everything

Who is going to be stitched up ?

This is an inquirey into Abhisit and Suthep.

[rubl]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

Anyway, whether 'they' felt to be 'justified' in using violence or not, it interesting that a few 'radicalised' chaps can walk around with no one in the red-shirt camp acknowledging their existence and even the UDD leader club knowing nothing. It's almost as if they also disagree with that faceless violence. As for other confirmed incidents, well not easy with cowards operating in the night targeting non-red-shirts only.

BTW apart from numbers, it's interesting that those 'suppressed' were mobilised to help a criminal fugitive regain his confiscated ill gotten billions. Somehow that suggests is more a power struggle being 'elite' than having any relation with democracy.

PS "deny basic human rights" ? You mea stand up for one self rather than for a criminal fugitive living in high luxury?

PPS there were two attacks on multicolour shirts on the 22ndd of April 2010. The first attack went astray and hit the BTS station killing a Thai lady. The second attack was more precise and killed two shirts and injured dozens of others. Ask Nick Nostriz, he was present during the second attack.

Edited June 11, 2015 by rubl

[In Town]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

Anyway, whether 'they' felt to be 'justified' in using violence or not, it interesting that a few 'radicalised' chaps can walk around with no one in the red-shirt camp acknowledging their existence and even the UDD leader club knowing nothing. It's almost as if they also disagree with that faceless violence. As for other confirmed incidents, well not easy with cowards operating in the night targeting non-red-shirts only.

BTW apart from numbers, it's interesting that those 'suppressed' were mobilised to help a criminal fugitive regain his confiscated ill gotten billions. Somehow that suggests is more a power struggle being 'elite' than having any relation with democracy.

PS "deny basic human rights" ? You mea stand up for one self rather than for a criminal fugitive living in high luxury?

PPS there were two attacks on multicolour shirts on the 22ndd of April 2010. The first attack went astray and hit the BTS station killing a Thai lady. The second attack was more precise and killed two shirts and injured dozens of others. Ask Nick Nostriz, he was present during the second attack.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to mention Thaksin--catch-all excuse for all questionable behaviour. Bravo! When under pressure always play that card. Lets everyone know there is no point in having a serious discussion.

[Robby nz]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

You do have it bad.

They were protesting (rioting) against a legally constituted Govt that had was put together in a democratic and constitutional manner as a coalition in exactly the same way as the 2 previous Thaksin proxy Govts.

.

Many of the rioters were paid to riot and there was an armed element among them as well as armed reds, a couple of photos once again and plenty more where those came from :

The General (now) was killed by a grenade fired from the red crowd there were malicious rumors spread at the time that he had been shot from behind in the back and head but that was proven to be untrue.

If you like peaceful protest for democracy then you must have joined the protests against the amnesty bill which couldn't have been more undemocratic. That's assuming you've ever been to Thailand.

While you are at it you might like to give us your spin on one of your peaceful red shirt leader heroes "burn BKK to the ground"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouQJuhlfBXY

[jerojero]

Why are they wasting time and effort digging up dirt on people from 5 years ago? Spend the government's limited resources on current problems and try progress the country forward!

Edited June 11, 2015 by jerojero

[rubl]

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

Anyway, whether 'they' felt to be 'justified' in using violence or not, it interesting that a few 'radicalised' chaps can walk around with no one in the red-shirt camp acknowledging their existence and even the UDD leader club knowing nothing. It's almost as if they also disagree with that faceless violence. As for other confirmed incidents, well not easy with cowards operating in the night targeting non-red-shirts only.

BTW apart from numbers, it's interesting that those 'suppressed' were mobilised to help a criminal fugitive regain his confiscated ill gotten billions. Somehow that suggests is more a power struggle being 'elite' than having any relation with democracy.

PS "deny basic human rights" ? You mea stand up for one self rather than for a criminal fugitive living in high luxury?

PPS there were two attacks on multicolour shirts on the 22ndd of April 2010. The first attack went astray and hit the BTS station killing a Thai lady. The second attack was more precise and killed two shirts and injured dozens of others. Ask Nick Nostriz, he was present during the second attack.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to mention Thaksin--catch-all excuse for all questionable behaviour. Bravo! When under pressure always play that card. Lets everyone know there is no point in having a serious discussion.

Did I mention someone with that name? Mind you, the 'protests' really started end of February 2010 when a court ruled to confiscate 43 or so billion Baht from said criminal fugitive's ill gotten gains. Would that also be a 'false flag' operation to provoke those poor oppressed into coming to Bangkok ?

[rubl]

SO IS YOUR CONTENTION THAT HE IS NOW TH SPOKESMAN FOR ALL RED SHIRTS?

For many years we've been told that the UDD and it's leaders represent all red-shirts. We've been told so many times we have started to believe. To undo this damage you have to come with pretty convincing counter arguments, my dear chap.

[rubl]

Why are they wasting time and effort digging up dirt on people from 5 years ago? Spend the government's limited resources on current problems and try progress the country forward!

but, but, but what about justice as demanded by red-shirts and others who lost relatives?

[In Town]

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

Anyway, whether 'they' felt to be 'justified' in using violence or not, it interesting that a few 'radicalised' chaps can walk around with no one in the red-shirt camp acknowledging their existence and even the UDD leader club knowing nothing. It's almost as if they also disagree with that faceless violence. As for other confirmed incidents, well not easy with cowards operating in the night targeting non-red-shirts only.

BTW apart from numbers, it's interesting that those 'suppressed' were mobilised to help a criminal fugitive regain his confiscated ill gotten billions. Somehow that suggests is more a power struggle being 'elite' than having any relation with democracy.

PS "deny basic human rights" ? You mea stand up for one self rather than for a criminal fugitive living in high luxury?

PPS there were two attacks on multicolour shirts on the 22ndd of April 2010. The first attack went astray and hit the BTS station killing a Thai lady. The second attack was more precise and killed two shirts and injured dozens of others. Ask Nick Nostriz, he was present during the second attack.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to mention Thaksin--catch-all excuse for all questionable behaviour. Bravo! When under pressure always play that card. Lets everyone know there is no point in having a serious discussion.

Did I mention someone with that name? Mind you, the 'protests' really started end of February 2010 when a court ruled to confiscate 43 or so billion Baht from said criminal fugitive's ill gotten gains. Would that also be a 'false flag' operation to provoke those poor oppressed into coming to Bangkok ?

No, you got me. You didn't mention his name, but you did refer to him, which is more or less the same thing, I think.

Actually, if you recall, Thaksin tried to get the red shirts to protest the confiscation of his billions, but no one responded. It was several weeks later when a million people came out to protest "double standards", so your example is in fact evidence that Thaksin doesn't control the mob (as are their protests against amnesty).

[In Town]

SO IS YOUR CONTENTION THAT HE IS NOW TH SPOKESMAN FOR ALL RED SHIRTS?

For many years we've been told that the UDD and it's leaders represent all red-shirts. We've been told so many times we have started to believe. To undo this damage you have to come with pretty convincing counter arguments, my dear chap.

Who told you that? You must not have followed the movement very closely if you believe their in unanimity among the leadership.

[rubl]

No, you got me. You didn't mention his name, but you did refer to him, which is more or less the same thing, I think.

Actually, if you recall, Thaksin tried to get the red shirts to protest the confiscation of his billions, but no one responded. It was several weeks later when a million people came out to protest "double standards", so your example is in fact evidence that Thaksin doesn't control the mob (as are their protests against amnesty).

Of course Thaksin doesn't control his mob. That's why everyone and his/her dog flew to him to personally get instructions.

BTW in my universe we have

"Thaksin denounced the decision as part of a conspiracy to remove him from politics and the pro-Thaksin United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) announced that it would mobilise a million protestors in Bangkok.

...

Thaksin, who is currently in exile, addressed the demonstrators by video link, urging them to maintain the pressure to force the government to resign. He denounced the country’s “ruling elites” for causing the country’s problems and called for the establishment of “democracy, equality and justice”. The billionaire Thaksin, however, is himself a leading member of the Thai corporate elite."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/03/thai-m16.html

[rubl]

SO IS YOUR CONTENTION THAT HE IS NOW TH SPOKESMAN FOR ALL RED SHIRTS?

For many years we've been told that the UDD and it's leaders represent all red-shirts. We've been told so many times we have started to believe. To undo this damage you have to come with pretty convincing counter arguments, my dear chap.

Who told you that? You must not have followed the movement very closely if you believe their in unanimity among the leadership.

Where were you 2009 and 2010?

Have you even listened to speeches by Jatuporn, Nattawut and so? The continuous and democratic "We, the red-shirts"?

Anyway, no new information, just the old obfuscation I've read here so many times. One would almost wish the Blanket Amnesty Bill had been allowed to become law. Nothing about 2010 would have been relevant anymore

[tbthailand]

As I recall, the death of Colonel Romklao was attributed at the time to friendly fire, and DSI found no evidence of red shirt involvement. Seh Deang, a braggart and self-promoter, who was trying to gin up an actual militia for the red shirts from disaffected soldiers, intimated he was responsible for the death, and thus sealed his own fate. There are so many false flag operations in Thailand that it is difficult at any given point to know who did what, but there is fair evidence that the fires set at Central in 2010 were done by agent provocateurs aiming to provide some post-massacre justification for the mass killing of demonstrators. There is also significant evidence of PDRC false flag operations conducted to encourage a coup.

As I recall when asked the late renegade general Seh Daeng said "no one saw me".

The fair evidence about the fire at CWT indicated various armed and fighting forces rather than 'army in control'.

To some obviously all activities of those who oppress peaceful and lovable protesters who saw and heard nothing and somehow know nothing as well.

Well, perhaps I do see the world through rose coloured glasses. Others may tend to see the world through yellow tinted shooting glasses.

I am relatively certain that the grenades fired at the MRT roof (one of which missed and killed an innocent bystander), and the grenade that injured the Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergraft, were fired by red shirt supporters. I believe they were the remnants of Seh Deang's little platoon. But when hundreds of thousands are protesting for democracy, and against double standards, and feel they are constantly persecuted and denigrated by unaccountable elites, its not surprising that a few are radicalised. Besides these incidents, I don't know of any other confirmed incidents of red shirt military-like violence.

In contrast, there is ample video and eyewitness accounts of military, PAD and PDRC violence.

Anyway, I guess you have characterised me correctly. I do find the democracy protesters generally peaceful and loveable. Likewise, I find those who seek to oppress them, to deny them basic human rights, the opposite.

You do have it bad.

They were protesting (rioting) against a legally constituted Govt that had was put together in a democratic and constitutional manner as a coalition in exactly the same way as the 2 previous Thaksin proxy Govts.

.

Many of the rioters were paid to riot and there was an armed element among them as well as armed reds, a couple of photos once again and plenty more where those came from :armed red.jpg blackshirt1.jpg

The General (now) was killed by a grenade fired from the red crowd there were malicious rumors spread at the time that he had been shot from behind in the back and head but that was proven to be untrue.

If you like peaceful protest for democracy then you must have joined the protests against the amnesty bill which couldn't have been more undemocratic. That's assuming you've ever been to Thailand.

While you are at it you might like to give us your spin on one of your peaceful red shirt leader heroes "burn BKK to the ground"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouQJuhlfBXY

They were protesting (rioting) against a legally constituted Govt that had was put together in a democratic and constitutional manner

well if that is your starting point, ....

Edited June 11, 2015 by tbthailand

[tbthailand]

Going to be stitch up isn't it , surprise witnesses and everything

The General needs a new witnesses for each one he removes...

[graft]

Anyway, whether 'they' felt to be 'justified' in using violence or not, it interesting that a few 'radicalised' chaps can walk around with no one in the red-shirt camp acknowledging their existence and even the UDD leader club knowing nothing. It's almost as if they also disagree with that faceless violence. As for other confirmed incidents, well not easy with cowards operating in the night targeting non-red-shirts only.

BTW apart from numbers, it's interesting that those 'suppressed' were mobilised to help a criminal fugitive regain his confiscated ill gotten billions. Somehow that suggests is more a power struggle being 'elite' than having any relation with democracy.

PS "deny basic human rights" ? You mea stand up for one self rather than for a criminal fugitive living in high luxury?

PPS there were two attacks on multicolour shirts on the 22ndd of April 2010. The first attack went astray and hit the BTS station killing a Thai lady. The second attack was more precise and killed two shirts and injured dozens of others. Ask Nick Nostriz, he was present during the second attack.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to mention Thaksin--catch-all excuse for all questionable behaviour. Bravo! When under pressure always play that card. Lets everyone know there is no point in having a serious discussion.

Did I mention someone with that name? Mind you, the 'protests' really started end of February 2010 when a court ruled to confiscate 43 or so billion Baht from said criminal fugitive's ill gotten gains. Would that also be a 'false flag' operation to provoke those poor oppressed into coming to Bangkok ?

The decision by the courts to confiscate Thaksins assets was made on the 27th February. A small group of red shirts (Red Siam) stayed outside of the court to show support for Thaksin. The protests against the government started on the 14th March. Your attempt to link the two events as though the UDD leapt to the bidding of Thaksin as reaction to his assets being confiscated is simplistic at best.

You may wish to read this, Naruemon and McCargo's "Thai Redshirts Revisited" and learn something about the disparate groups (and their aims/attitudes) that made up the UDD at that time. For example,

Overall, the redshirt movement was an extremely pragmatic alliance among groups ranging from idealistic post-leftists to others of a rather thuggish disposition: elements from the two sides that had fought one another in the 1970s were now collaborating. The ambiguous relationship between the self-exiled Thaksin and the redshirt leaders was a complicating factor in understanding the movement’s decision-making process because it was unclear how far the hard-liners really represented the former prime minister’s own stance. Yet, a focus on the leadership reveals relatively little about the movement itself, given the lack of direct connection between many of the UDD’s leading figures and their grassroots supporters.

and why were they protesting? Because Thaksins assets were confiscated? Oh, please...................

Ultimately, the redshirt protests were concerned with politics rather than the economy or culture. Redshirt frustrations with the system centered on their

sense of inequality, but their sense of inequality primarily concerned access to political resources. Our 57 interview informants were not revolutionaries, and were not seeking to overthrow or even radically to overhaul the prevailing political order. Rather, these urbanized villagers aspired to social mobility

under the existing system. Our informants were primarily demanding political justice, a problem for those who sought to reduce redshirt concerns to a

set of socioeconomic grievances.