Families: No justice in Israeli inquiry on Gaza beach deaths

[arjunadawn]

From posts on this and the similar thread some apologist nutters would consider it quite acceptable for Israel to nuke the whole area so that each and every person was killed. All because of Hamas of course.

But they wont look in the mirror to consider it is also Israel's fault for continuing with the same response time and again and expecting a different outcome.

Its time Israel changed its thinking on how to resolve the mess. If it doesn't, the world will do it for them.

Total garbage.

Supporting Israel's right to defend itself is not nuts.

It's the right and civilized thing to do.

Israel is a great nation and deserves to exist.

Nobody said Israel should nuke the region.

You made that up to demonize Israel.

Israel can make adjustments sure, but still always MUST defend against those dedicated to its destruction. No choice.

Then you make threats against Israel.

I get it ... you hate Israel, you're an enemy of Israel, join the club.

But posters playing lying inflammatory games as above ... nutters and nukes, OK, I've had enough. Welcome to my ignore list.

To assign a motivation whereby someone who disagrees with you would "nuke" an entire population uniquely defines the character of the person, and the quality of their argument; thus the nature of any meaningful discourse regarding such subjects. They always seem to devolve into ad hominen character assassinations and emotive appeals. This issue is not about someone's motives or such, it is about an Israeli inquiry into Gaza Beach Deaths.

Edited June 15, 2015 by arjunadawn

[Steely Dan]

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

[Linky]

You blame Hamas for indescriminate bombing but consider it ok for Israel to do the same murdering children.

Pott and kettle

You have not substantiated your claim that Israel murdered anyone. You keep insisting that the accused prove its innocence. The burden of proof in a criminal case is on the accuser(s). There has to be no reasonable doubt. You and your cadre have not supported your claims.

Oh forgot the Israel report was to apportion blame to someone else.

The ICC will deal with it but in the meantime you keep believing Hamas murdered them even though reports suggest otherwise.

Forever in denial are some and with that attitude it is no wonder the Palestinians cannot get Israel to agree to anything and little wonder the world has lost patience with them.

[Linky]

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

[Linky]

From posts on this and the similar thread some apologist nutters would consider it quite acceptable for Israel to nuke the whole area so that each and every person was killed. All because of Hamas of course.

But they wont look in the mirror to consider it is also Israel's fault for continuing with the same response time and again and expecting a different outcome.

Its time Israel changed its thinking on how to resolve the mess. If it doesn't, the world will do it for them.

Total garbage.

Supporting Israel's right to defend itself is not nuts.

It's the right and civilized thing to do.

Israel is a great nation and deserves to exist.

Nobody said Israel should nuke the region.

You made that up to demonize Israel.

Israel can make adjustments sure, but still always MUST defend against those dedicated to its destruction. No choice.

Then you make threats against Israel.

I get it ... you hate Israel, you're an enemy of Israel, join the club.

But posters playing lying inflammatory games as above ... nutters and nukes, OK, I've had enough. Welcome to my ignore list.

To assign a motivation whereby someone who disagrees with you would "nuke" an entire population uniquely defines the character of the person, and the quality of their argument; thus the nature of any meaningful discourse regarding such subjects. They always seem to devolve into ad hominen character assassinations and emotive appeals. This issue is not about someone's motives or such, it is about an Israeli inquiry into Gaza Beach Deaths.

Has Israel denied they bombed them?

[jdinasia]

You blame Hamas for indescriminate bombing but consider it ok for Israel to do the same murdering children.

Pott and kettle

You have not substantiated your claim that Israel murdered anyone. You keep insisting that the accused prove its innocence. The burden of proof in a criminal case is on the accuser(s). There has to be no reasonable doubt. You and your cadre have not supported your claims.

Oh forgot the Israel report was to apportion blame to someone else.

The ICC will deal with it but in the meantime you keep believing Hamas murdered them even though reports suggest otherwise.

Forever in denial are some and with that attitude it is no wonder the Palestinians cannot get Israel to agree to anything and little wonder the world has lost patience with them.

The IDF investigation says that the IDF killed the kids in a "tragic accident."

It is a war crime to not be sure of your target.

It is a requirement that an occupying nation protect the civilian population

[Steely Dan]

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

Numerous journalists have lied about Israel in the past and will no doubt continue to do so. Here is an article about the Mohammad Al Durrah hoax.

http://ukmediawatch.org/2012/02/16/another-blow-against-propagandists-still-clinging-to-the-al-durrah-hoax/

I believe a documentary is being considered by the man who painstakingly examined the available press footage for the Bakr children's deaths, though this thread will be no doubt be ancient history by then.

[jdinasia]

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

Numerous journalists have lied about Israel in the past and will no doubt continue to do so. Here is an article about the Mohammad Al Durrah hoax.

http://ukmediawatch.org/2012/02/16/another-blow-against-propagandists-still-clinging-to-the-al-durrah-hoax/

I believe a documentary is being considered by the man who painstakingly examined the available press footage for the Bakr children's deaths, though this thread will be no doubt be ancient history by then.

The IDF isn't denying they killed the kids.

[Thorgal]

You blame Hamas for indescriminate bombing but consider it ok for Israel to do the same murdering children.

Pott and kettle

You have not substantiated your claim that Israel murdered anyone. You keep insisting that the accused prove its innocence. The burden of proof in a criminal case is on the accuser(s). There has to be no reasonable doubt. You and your cadre have not supported your claims.

I would like to see my opinion based on unbiased reports of independent objective humanitarian organisations like HRW and Amnesty International.

But unfortunately they have been refused by Israeli government to enter Gaza during the last operations.

Quote from link :

"Israel has been refusing to allow employees of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch to enter the Gaza Strip in order to conduct their own independent investigations into the fighting, using various bureaucratic excuses."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.611015

[Thorgal]

It is a war crime to not be sure of your target.

No it isn't. Why do the obsessive Jew-bashers constantly make up fake "facts" from thin air? A war crime would be a specific, deliberate attack on non-combatants, not a mistake.

The 5 children were non-combatants...killed by soldiers...under command ! Edited June 15, 2015 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

What don't you understand about a "tragic accident"? The incident took place in an area that had long been known as a compound belonging to Hamass Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos), and which was utilized exclusively by militants. The IDF carried out a number of attacks on the compound in the days prior to the incident.

[Seastallion]

What don't you understand about a "tragic accident"? The incident took place in an area that had long been known as a compound belonging to Hamass Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos), and which was utilized exclusively by militants. The IDF carried out a number of attacks on the compound in the days prior to the incident.

You are quoting a lie. Plainly, the area was not utilised exclusively by militants IF the children were killed there.

Either that, or the lie is that the children were killed on the beach on the other side of the fence. Which piece of IDF testimony is the lie?

Or...are you saying the children were militants? Not even the IDF says that.

[Pakboong]

Tens of thousands of kids are killed each week around our planet for various reasons. The only true wrong here is for one tribe to overtly claim that their children are more valuable than another tribe's children. To do so, or to even believe in such is overt racism. Not necessarily bad, it is what it is.

[Ulysses G.]

What don't you understand about a "tragic accident"? The incident took place in an area that had long been known as a compound belonging to Hamass Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos), and which was utilized exclusively by militants. The IDF carried out a number of attacks on the compound in the days prior to the incident.

You are quoting a lie. Plainly, the area was not utilised exclusively by militants IF the children were killed there.

Hence the "tragic accident". The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. That is why no one realized kids were playing there. Stop being pedantic.

[Linky]

What don't you understand about a "tragic accident"? The incident took place in an area that had long been known as a compound belonging to Hamass Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos), and which was utilized exclusively by militants. The IDF carried out a number of attacks on the compound in the days prior to the incident.

You are quoting a lie. Plainly, the area was not utilised exclusively by militants IF the children were killed there.

Hence the "tragic accident". The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. That is why no one realized kids were playing there. Stop being pedantic.

Which is exactly the point.

It was not exclusively used by Hamas as proven by the kids playing there.

1. Israel bombed there knowing they were kids. War crime.

2. Israel bombed there not knowing who it was they were bombing. War crime.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been reported several times and has now been removed.

[Ulysses G.]

It was not exclusively used by Hamas as proven by the kids playing there.

1. Israel bombed there knowing they were kids. War crime.

2. Israel bombed there not knowing who it was they were bombing. War crime.

You are making things up again. The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. It was very possibly the first time the children had played there. There is no evidence otherwise.

It is only a war crime, if Israel knew that they were bombing children and there is no evidence AT ALL of that either..

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

It was not exclusively used by Hamas as proven by the kids playing there.

1. Israel bombed there knowing they were kids. War crime.

2. Israel bombed there not knowing who it was they were bombing. War crime.

You are making things up again. The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. It was very possibly the first time the children had played there. There is no evidence otherwise.

It is only a war crime, if Israel knew that they were bombing children and there is no evidence AT ALL of that either..

Points 1 and 2 are options, obviously.

You are imagining things, speculating; "It was very possibly the first time the children had played there".

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they? It makes all the sense in the world to release that footage...IF they are innocent, and it makes all the sense in the world to hide that footage IF they are guilty.

[Linky]

It was not exclusively used by Hamas as proven by the kids playing there.

1. Israel bombed there knowing they were kids. War crime.

2. Israel bombed there not knowing who it was they were bombing. War crime.

You are making things up again. The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. It was very possibly the first time the children had played there. There is no evidence otherwise.

It is only a war crime, if Israel knew that they were bombing children and there is no evidence AT ALL of that either..

Obviously it was not exclusively used by militants because kids were playing there. Bombing them without knowing who they were bombing is indescriminate and a war crime.

So either they knew they were kids and bombed them, or they didnt know who it was and bombed them.

I dont think Israel would intentionally bomb those kids. So i would think they didnt know who was there and bombit them anyway and hoped they were Hamas.

But in any event they did so in the knowledge the powers that be would exonerate them anyway.

The ICC will deal with it. If Israel wants to cry foul about that then they are at liberty to also file complants about Hamas. I have no issue with that.

Israel is running scared now that the Palestinians have joined the ICC. They have been getting away with unconscionable acts for decades and now will be held to account.

[Ulysses G.]

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they?

Can you please produce some evidence that Israel refuses to release footage of this event. You have a bad habit of making things up.

[Seastallion]

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they?

Can you please produce some evidence that Israel refuses to release footage of this event. You have a bad habit of making things up.

If you have seen the footage, or know where it can be viewed/listened to, please let all of us know where we too can see and hear it. I will gladly stand up and say "IDF, I'm sorry I doubted you", if the footage/audio reveals that the IDF report and exoneration are valid. Even JT admits the report is questionable.

Please back up your nasty allegation of my bad habit, or recant and apologise.

[Seastallion]

It was not exclusively used by Hamas as proven by the kids playing there.

1. Israel bombed there knowing they were kids. War crime.

2. Israel bombed there not knowing who it was they were bombing. War crime.

You are making things up again. The compound was known as a compound belonging to Hamas, which was utilized exclusively by militants. It was very possibly the first time the children had played there. There is no evidence otherwise.

It is only a war crime, if Israel knew that they were bombing children and there is no evidence AT ALL of that either..

Obviously it was not exclusively used by militants because kids were playing there. Bombing them without knowing who they were bombing is indescriminate and a war crime.

So either they knew they were kids and bombed them, or they didnt know who it was and bombed them.

I dont think Israel would intentionally bomb those kids. So i would think they didnt know who was there and bombit them anyway and hoped they were Hamas.

But in any event they did so in the knowledge the powers that be would exonerate them anyway.

The ICC will deal with it. If Israel wants to cry foul about that then they are at liberty to also file complants about Hamas. I have no issue with that.

Israel is running scared now that the Palestinians have joined the ICC. They have been getting away with unconscionable acts for decades and now will be held to account.

You've missed another possibility.

Most of us have seen the videos such as the one where snipers shoot at kids playing football on a rooftop. Many of us have also read the testimonies of "Breaking The Silence" and know that some rogue individuals do in fact intentionally shoot kids or civilians. It's possible that the IDF made no order, but an individual or group of individuals took matters into their own hands and murdered those kids.

we can't be blamed for considering this possibility because there has been precedent.

(This possibility actually largely exonerates the IDF)

[Ulysses G.]

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they?

Can you please produce some evidence that Israel refuses to release footage of this event. You have a bad habit of making things up.

If you have seen the footage, or know where it can be viewed/listened to,

Just as I thought. In other words, once again, you just made things up with no evidence. You do it constantly. You are the one who should be apologizing for all the dishonest posts.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Linky]

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they?

Can you please produce some evidence that Israel refuses to release footage of this event. You have a bad habit of making things up.

If you have seen the footage, or know where it can be viewed/listened to,

Just as I thought. In other words, once again, you just made things up with no evidence. You do it constantly. You are the one who should be apologizing.

So they have released the footage have they?

[Ulysses G.]

If they haven't, PROVE it for a change. I don't have the time to research all the lies that the obsessive Jew-bashers post on here. It would be a full time job.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Linky]

If they haven't, PROVE it for a change. I don't have the time to research all the lies that the obsessive Jew-bashers post on here.

Easy to prove by the fact they haven't released it. That is a fact.

Now if you wish to contest that fact then feel free to do so.

[Seastallion]

There is very little evidence of Israel's innocence in the matter....not until they release battle footage. Why won't they?

Can you please produce some evidence that Israel refuses to release footage of this event. You have a bad habit of making things up.

If you have seen the footage, or know where it can be viewed/listened to,

Just as I thought. In other words, once again, you just made things up with no evidence. You do it constantly. You are the one who should be apologizing for all the dishonest posts.

Stop with the false accusations. I have asked a question, "Why don't they release the footage?"

If they have released footage, then my question is redundant. Nothing dishonest about that.

Is my question redundant?

[Ulysses G.]

In other words, neither of you can prove your accusation. "Facts" have credible evidence to support them, which you never seem capable of providing. You are great at making things up from thin air, not so great at proving these blatant lies.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Linky]

In other words, you can not prove it. "Facts" have credible evidence to support them, which you never seem capable of providing.

I suppose that logic could make sense to you.

If you want to refute the fact then do so. If you cannot do so then that fact remains.

Fact: Israel has not released the footage.

Off you go.

[Seastallion]

In other words, neither of you can prove your accusation. "Facts" have credible evidence to support them, which you never seem capable of providing. You are great at making things up from thin air, not so great at proving these blatant lies.

Stop the spin. As I have said, I asked a question, I did not make an accusation. If you know my question is redundant, then say so.