If this is true.

[nev]

So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too.

Will Thailand except and allow those that have served apprenticeship's to teach.

Always have said you do not need a degree to teach

[angsta]

It's not as if the Thai education system can get any worse is it?

Let everyone have a go

[nev]

It's not as if the Thai education system can get any worse is it?

Let everyone have a go

My thought's exactly, just because someone has a degree in say social science doesn't mean they can teach English better than someone who has served a apprenticeship.

[SlyAnimal]

If people have an apprenticeship as an electrician and they want to teach young electricians at a technical college, then perhaps they will (Although I'm not actually sure if technical colleges are under Krusapa anyway?)

But otherwise I very much doubt that someone with an apprenticeship will become eligible for a provisional teachers license. As the purpose of the provisional license, is that the teacher has learnt specific subject knowledge (at university) and will then do further study in order to complete the licensing requirements for a full license.

The system is primarily designed with Thai teachers in mind, not Farang.

[redandyellow]

"Always have said you do not need a degree to teach"

I have a 4 year trade and 2 university degrees. I was a woodwork and special needs teacher; I specialized in working with students with behavior-disorders and special needs. I believe everyone is special needs. It's a continuum, like a dimmer switch.

With 26 years of experience working as a teacher with severely at-risk students, I can also say, like you, that you do not need a degree to teach. You do need to care though. it also helps to put on a different "hat" for each student. Those that go by the book get eaten alive these days. Flexibility is key.

NOTE to self: Facilitator and Teacher are 2 different things.

I was rarely the latter.

To me, Teachers are people like Jesus, Buddha, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and so on.

None of us are on that list I see .

But feel free to give it a go.

All the Best

R and Y

[SheungWan]

The dumbing down of entry qualifications for teaching will also no doubt be accompanied by poorer pay remuneration, not that it is all that wonderful right now. Just another branch of social work really, according to some. In the UK, the 'new' university sector emerged from the polytechnics which developed primarily from offering vocational subjects such as HNDs (BTEC, GNVQ now, and so on). For sure there will be some unis in Thailand that emerged from a similar background. It is that tradition which has progressively been discarded rather that might have been reviewed rather than some sloppy apprenticeship (and I am not talking about the old-style 5-7 year apprenticeships here) box ticking that will probably take place. If there was a serious study of how vocational education should take place then the Thai education system would take a cool hard look at the German model, but that isn't how this one is going to play out.

[lostinisaan]

To me, Teachers are people like Jesus, Buddha, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and so on.

How could you forget Baghwan? This country needs more "teachers" like him.

Just wondering how many members here still got their orange uniform in their wardrobe and their"Mala?" OP, please be honest.......

Edited June 15, 2015 by lostinisaan

[zeichen]

"So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too."

The problem with that is the requirements to get a teacher's license waiver isn't a degree or equivalent. The requirement here is a 4 year degree period. Unless it says Bachelor's it won't satisfy the Thai government.

It won't effect anything outside of the country that is creating this program.

[lostinisaan]

"So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too."

The problem with that is the requirements to get a teacher's license waiver isn't a degree or equivalent. The requirement here is a 4 year degree period. Unless it says Bachelor's it won't satisfy the Thai government.

It won't effect anything outside of the country that is creating this program.

And considering that the OP's article seems to be from UK news, it doesn't mean anything in Thailand.

OP could drive to the TCT, show it to the gloved guy and post what they think about it. I'm willing to pay my part for a train ticket to the capital.

[nev]

"So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too."

The problem with that is the requirements to get a teacher's license waiver isn't a degree or equivalent. The requirement here is a 4 year degree period. Unless it says Bachelor's it won't satisfy the Thai government.

It won't effect anything outside of the country that is creating this program.

And considering that the OP's article seems to be from UK news, it doesn't mean anything in Thailand.

OP could drive to the TCT, show it to the gloved guy and post what they think about it. I'm willing to pay my part for a train ticket to the capital.

Couldn't give two hoots, I have no plans to teach, just thought it might be interesting to some on here.

I have done a 4 year apprenticeship obtaining city and guilds craft certificate and city and guilds advanced certificate and then a further 2 years getting construction technician certificate level 3 and 4.

That is 6 years at technical college and after all that I obtained my builders licence, the point I am getting at why is my study not on a same level as a degree.

[zeichen]

"the point I am getting at why is my study not on a same level as a degree."

I guess the point I am trying to make is that one is an academic qualification that requires people to actually read, write reports, open and expand their minds that a technical trade doesn't. How does being able to wire a building properly help you teach? How many courses in academic writing did you take?

"Couldn't give two hoots, I have no plans to teach,"

I am glad.

[nev]

"the point I am getting at why is my study not on a same level as a degree."

I guess the point I am trying to make is that one is an academic qualification that requires people to actually read, write reports, open and expand their minds that a technical trade doesn't. How does being able to wire a building properly help you teach? How many courses in academic writing did you take?

"Couldn't give two hoots, I have no plans to teach,"

I am glad.

I am glad too, I will stick to building homes and you can stick to your academic pillosophy, I quiet enjoy working outdoors and getting my hands dirty.

[zeichen]

"I am glad too, I will stick to building homes"

I'll visit you in prison and bring you some books.

[nev]

"I am glad too, I will stick to building homes"

I'll visit you in prison and bring you some books.

What's that supposed to mean? All blue collar workers are Crim's And we will end up in jail?.

[zeichen]

Doing construction work in Thailand as a foreigner is illegal. You could own the company but you cannot actually do the work. Unless you work in the UK and just holiday here, but then why are you wasting your time on a teaching forum?

[SheungWan]

"So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too."

The problem with that is the requirements to get a teacher's license waiver isn't a degree or equivalent. The requirement here is a 4 year degree period. Unless it says Bachelor's it won't satisfy the Thai government.

It won't effect anything outside of the country that is creating this program.

And considering that the OP's article seems to be from UK news, it doesn't mean anything in Thailand.

OP could drive to the TCT, show it to the gloved guy and post what they think about it. I'm willing to pay my part for a train ticket to the capital.

Couldn't give two hoots, I have no plans to teach, just thought it might be interesting to some on here.

I have done a 4 year apprenticeship obtaining city and guilds craft certificate and city and guilds advanced certificate and then a further 2 years getting construction technician certificate level 3 and 4.

That is 6 years at technical college and after all that I obtained my builders licence, the point I am getting at why is my study not on a same level as a degree.

You could, of course, take up your query with the UK National Qualifications Framework. The academic level of City and Guilds is considered to be Level 3, HNC at level 4, HND at level 5 and undergraduate courses at level 6. If you have taken several years of qualifications at level 3 this doesn't add up to level 4, 5 or even 6. You would still be at level 3. Having said that, assuming you are a mature student, someone with your background, assuming you have in addition English and maths GCSEs at grade C or above, you could be offered a place on a suitable undergraduate degree course at a UK university. You would then discover how easy or not it is to cope but many mature students have been successful. The problem for most is that having been outside the classroom for many years they have difficulty operating in an academic environment. If you have a job then there is always the OU to try your hand at a degree course, but the drop-out rate is high.

[Rhys]

I thought all those retired Thais had to go... why are they still in the MOE?

[nev]

"So they are going to make apprenticeship's equal to a degree and about time too."

The problem with that is the requirements to get a teacher's license waiver isn't a degree or equivalent. The requirement here is a 4 year degree period. Unless it says Bachelor's it won't satisfy the Thai government.

It won't effect anything outside of the country that is creating this program.

And considering that the OP's article seems to be from UK news, it doesn't mean anything in Thailand.

OP could drive to the TCT, show it to the gloved guy and post what they think about it. I'm willing to pay my part for a train ticket to the capital.

Couldn't give two hoots, I have no plans to teach, just thought it might be interesting to some on here.

I have done a 4 year apprenticeship obtaining city and guilds craft certificate and city and guilds advanced certificate and then a further 2 years getting construction technician certificate level 3 and 4.

That is 6 years at technical college and after all that I obtained my builders licence, the point I am getting at why is my study not on a same level as a degree.

You could, of course, take up your query with the UK National Qualifications Framework. The academic level of City and Guilds is considered to be Level 3, HNC at level 4, HND at level 5 and undergraduate courses at level 6. If you have taken several years of qualifications at level 3 this doesn't add up to level 4, 5 or even 6. You would still be at level 3. Having said that, assuming you are a mature student, someone with your background, assuming you have in addition English and maths GCSEs at grade C or above, you could be offered a place on a suitable undergraduate degree course at a UK university. You would then discover how easy or not it is to cope but many mature students have been successful. The problem for most is that having been outside the classroom for many years they have difficulty operating in an academic environment. If you have a job then there is always the OU to try your hand at a degree course, but the drop-out rate is high.

At my age I am better sticking to what I know, I can go back to Sydney and work a few months a year, I get paid $2000/week around 52,000 baht, or spend money and time on getting a degree so I can teach in Thailand for 30,000baht/month, think I will stick to what I am doing now.

[bangmai]

The dumbing down of entry qualifications for teaching will also no doubt be accompanied by poorer pay remuneration, not that it is all that wonderful right now. Just another branch of social work really, according to some. In the UK, the 'new' university sector emerged from the polytechnics which developed primarily from offering vocational subjects such as HNDs (BTEC, GNVQ now, and so on). For sure there will be some unis in Thailand that emerged from a similar background. It is that tradition which has progressively been discarded rather that might have been reviewed rather than some sloppy apprenticeship (and I am not talking about the old-style 5-7 year apprenticeships here) box ticking that will probably take place. If there was a serious study of how vocational education should take place then the Thai education system would take a cool hard look at the German model, but that isn't how this one is going to play out.

OK, let's look at the German model. The new Mercedes plant is being built in Mexico.

[SheungWan]

The dumbing down of entry qualifications for teaching will also no doubt be accompanied by poorer pay remuneration, not that it is all that wonderful right now. Just another branch of social work really, according to some. In the UK, the 'new' university sector emerged from the polytechnics which developed primarily from offering vocational subjects such as HNDs (BTEC, GNVQ now, and so on). For sure there will be some unis in Thailand that emerged from a similar background. It is that tradition which has progressively been discarded rather that might have been reviewed rather than some sloppy apprenticeship (and I am not talking about the old-style 5-7 year apprenticeships here) box ticking that will probably take place. If there was a serious study of how vocational education should take place then the Thai education system would take a cool hard look at the German model, but that isn't how this one is going to play out.

OK, let's look at the German model. The new Mercedes plant is being built in Mexico.

I am referring to the German education model which although varying from lander to lander has broadly kept a vocational alternative to the Gymnasium, namely with the Hauptschule and Realschule. Mercedes Benz manufactures and assembles cars in a large number of countries. Current German unemployment rate is 4.7%

[bangmai]

OK, the Germans are the smartest people in the world; just ask them, but I wouldn't ask someone whose Audi won't start because it is above 35c, outside.

[1900]

It's not as if the Thai education system can get any worse is it?

Let everyone have a go

My thought's exactly, just because someone has a degree in say social science doesn't mean they can teach English better than someone who has served a apprenticeship.

Oops! You just showed your ignorance. I have a degree in a social science. I sat through 5 years of classes, read about 300 books, wrote about 100 papers, listened to professors, all of which held PhDs, who were published and famous in their fields. So a guy who learned plumbing at night school, then worked along side a REAL plumber knows more than me, is just as qualified to teach?

Look, you want to stay in Thailand and you see some form of injustice why the schools aren't paying any attention to you. So what? You don't qualify. It isn't fair to the students or their parents some plumber is in front of the class pretending to be an educator.

Isn't it nice the jetliner that brought you to Thailand was flown by a real pilot and not a carpenter, that your doctor actually went to med school, that your childhood teachers weren't raised by wolves in Siberia?

[redandyellow]

"I am glad too, I will stick to building homes"

I'll visit you in prison and bring you some books.

What's that supposed to mean? All blue collar workers are Crim's And we will end up in jail?.

I'll tell you the truth. I worked in blue collar and white collar jobs.

I like blue collar workers better. White collar is too passive aggressive

That includes many teachers

In almost 3 decades of teaching, I never made any teacher friends

I wonder why?

We are all Dicks , that's why

[redandyellow]

There is a grain of truth in the old saw.."Those that can't do..Teach."

Signed,

a Teacher

(and Carpenter)

Lighten up while you're at it.

Cutting out sugar is a good first step..

[1900]

It goes without saying you don't have to go to university to learn
pedagogy but you have to learn it somewhere, unless it's genetic.

Also logical is that a degree in pedagogy doesn't mean squat unless
you know how to apply it. The difference between being degreed or

not should also be obvious;someone who devoted 5 years to becoming

an educator and someone who is desperate to stay in Thailand cause he's in love.

The institution hiring teachers has the obligation to provide the best it can,
even in Thailand. Completion of university with it's degree makes you a member
of a brotherhood. That degree is all the personnel manager has to show his/her
superiors that you might be a candidate, unless you're a really smooth talker in Thai.

I'd be lying if I said I was good at it from the start. Took me about 4-5 years to become
a good teacher. I'd like to apologize to all my students who endured me during that time frame.

[casualbiker]

It goes without saying you don't have to go to university to learn

pedagogy but you have to learn it somewhere, unless it's genetic.

Also logical is that a degree in pedagogy doesn't mean squat unless

you know how to apply it. The difference between being degreed or

not should also be obvious;someone who devoted 5 years to becoming

an educator and someone who is desperate to stay in Thailand cause he's in love.

The institution hiring teachers has the obligation to provide the best it can,

even in Thailand. Completion of university with it's degree makes you a member

of a brotherhood. That degree is all the personnel manager has to show his/her

superiors that you might be a candidate, unless you're a really smooth talker in Thai.

I'd be lying if I said I was good at it from the start. Took me about 4-5 years to become

a good teacher. I'd like to apologize to all my students who endured me during that time frame.

And even after 5 years of sitting through classes. For Thailand you are still not qualified as a teacher because you haven't got an education degree ( unless you're social science degree had education credits). Also strange that it was a 5 year degree aren't they usually 3-4 years?

[1900]

One year grad school.

But yes, I'm not legally qualified in Thailand. But it doesn't matter cause I did my seven years and I'll never go back.

I've know a lot of non qualified teachers in Thailand and other countries who did just fine at the level they were.

Think of it, if you're an average-educated person in most First World countries you're sat through 15-16 years of class time. Somewhere along the line you just might get a grasp of what teaching is. But imparting information and actually teaching with the soul of an educated teacher is not the same. Things like classroom management and cultural sensitivity, theories of sociology and a lot more are not in your pocket..

Most Thai teachers I knew in Thailand were burnt out jaded crowd control experts, as the class' were often over 50.

While at Rajabhat I befriended a psychology teacher, the only one at the uni. She said he hadn't a lot of classes because the Ss were only required to do 5 credits for two semesters. I guess they don't see psychology as a viable offering for student teachers. In the US I'd guess psychology-related class' are about 50% of the curriculum.

[Rhys]

A degree with a OJT ( on the job training) make the classroom go round..

Now if only the kids would pay attention..

[1900]

A degree with a OJT ( on the job training) make the classroom go round..

Now if only the kids would pay attention..

Having the kids pay attention is your job. Canes work well.

[bangmai]

One year grad school.

But yes, I'm not legally qualified in Thailand. But it doesn't matter cause I did my seven years and I'll never go back.

I've know a lot of non qualified teachers in Thailand and other countries who did just fine at the level they were.

Think of it, if you're an average-educated person in most First World countries you're sat through 15-16 years of class time. Somewhere along the line you just might get a grasp of what teaching is. But imparting information and actually teaching with the soul of an educated teacher is not the same. Things like classroom management and cultural sensitivity, theories of sociology and a lot more are not in your pocket..

Most Thai teachers I knew in Thailand were burnt out jaded crowd control experts, as the class' were often over 50.

While at Rajabhat I befriended a psychology teacher, the only one at the uni. She said he hadn't a lot of classes because the Ss were only required to do 5 credits for two semesters. I guess they don't see psychology as a viable offering for student teachers. In the US I'd guess psychology-related class' are about 50% of the curriculum.

Of the total 4 year degree, less than 10%. I have a BBA, which required 128 semester hours, and zero Psychology courses. If I did a post-baccalaureate BA in Education, I would need 30-33 more semester hours, and of those, only one or two would be in the Psych Dept.. Of course there is an overlay in Education Department, but they are not true Psych courses.