No scheme to stay on will ever make Prayut legitimate

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
No scheme to stay on will ever make Prayut legitimate
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

BANGKOK: -- CAN THE expected referendum on whether to allow the military regime of General Prayut Chan-o-cha to stay for two more years "legitimise" the government?

Some say yes, as they argue that this time, unlike in the coup Prayut forced on people last year, the electorate will have a say through a plebiscite instead of obeying the guns and orders of coup makers.

Many have already decided to give a blank cheque to the military strongman and leader of the National Council for Peace and Order - who later chose himself to become prime minister for an almost indefinite period to run the country and ensure that the Thaksin-Yingluck Shinawatra clique would be annihilated.

Nevertheless, gaining a "mandate" through the referendum would be a very sweet move for the regime that's still regarded as less acceptable than an elected administration by some foreign states. After all, if endorsed through a referendum, Prayut can finally say people have granted him a mandate.

It's a twisted and fraudulent referendum at best, however, because the current situation is definitely not conducive to a free and fair plebiscite.

First, there's the ongoing ban on political gatherings of five or more people. According to iLaw, a non-government organisation specialising in legal reform and human-rights figures, at least 72 meetings and symposiums have been banned or intervened in for the past 12 months.

Given that, how can one truly expect people to articulate critically together and deliberate the choices in order to make a genuinely informed decision?

If this were an election, it would be akin to one that the opposition parties could compete in but could not campaign publicly.

Second, one should consider how farcical is the origin of the process. The very people selling the idea of a referendum on whether to allow a junta leader to stay on are members of the National Reform Council (NRC) and the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) who were installed by Prayut the junta leader to begin with. Conflict of interest doesn't seem to bother some Thais or Prayut, however.

Third, the main question on the referendum - besides whether to allow Prayut to stay on or not - would be whether one rejects or accepts the junta-sponsored draft charter. If the answer is no, then Prayut automatically stays on to oversee a new drafting process. If the answer is yes, then people get the junta-sponsored draft charter, which is deeply flawed in the eyes of those who support democracy.

Either way, the choice is like choosing between two brands of cola.

If a coup is compared to a situation where armed men seize control of a house that belongs to everyone, then the referendum is like the gun-slinging armed occupiers asking the other occupants whether they would like to have them stay on or not.

The truth is, legitimacy cannot be attained through the barrels of guns or the use of force and coercion. Legitimacy can never be attained by silencing millions. Yes, Prayut is likely to stay on for two more years if not longer, one way or the other, but no scheme can ever make him legitimate in the eyes of Thais who cherish freedom and democracy.

Ill-gotten wealth, no matter how long you keep it or how hard you try to launder it, remains illegitimate. Stolen power, like stolen money, will remain what it is no matter what.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/No-scheme-to-stay-on-will-ever-make-Prayut-legitim-30262491.html


-- The Nation 2015-06-17

[Stradavarius37]

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

[NeverSure]

"If a coup is compared to a situation where armed men seize control of a house that belongs to everyone, then the referendum is like the gun-slinging armed occupiers asking the other occupants whether they would like to have them stay on or not."

It reminds me of the old saying: "It's like three lambs and a lion deciding what's for lunch."

[tbthailand]

Pravit is one of the few brave voices in Thailand. He needs company.

[tbthailand]

The truth is, legitimacy cannot be attained through the barrels of guns or the use of force and coercion. Legitimacy can never be attained by silencing millions. Yes, Prayut is likely to stay on for two more years if not longer, one way or the other, but no scheme can ever make him legitimate in the eyes of Thais who cherish freedom and democracy.

Legitimacy is the core of the problem for all of the "reforms" occurring in Thailand today.

[ezzra]

So now, that finally, there is this half decent man, with morals and scrupulous at he helm of

this deeply corrupted country, there are still people who's not happy until a good man will

be gone and a crook and plunderer will be seated again at the halls of corruptions and greed,

good honest man are not good for business, while the latter is....

[JOC]

Who cares if he is legit or not? Thaitanic continues its merry voyage...............

[baboon]

So now, that finally, there is this half decent man, with morals and scrupulous at he helm of

this deeply corrupted country, there are still people who's not happy until a good man will

be gone and a crook and plunderer will be seated again at the halls of corruptions and greed,

good honest man are not good for business, while the latter is....

You know nothing of the man's character apart from what you are permitted to know, so how can you make definitive statements like that?

As for the rest, if the people want to elect a donkey's testicle it should be up to them, not a preselected choice handed down by the self-appointed.

[JOC]

So now, that finally, there is this half decent man, with morals and scrupulous at he helm of

this deeply corrupted country, there are still people who's not happy until a good man will

be gone and a crook and plunderer will be seated again at the halls of corruptions and greed,

good honest man are not good for business, while the latter is....

I agree, he is probably a half decent man, but it doesn't change the fact, that he is nothing but a pawn for the feudal masters, doing his utmost to keep status quo!!

Is Thailand not ready for democracy? Maybe not, but one thing is for sure, you don't learn democratic ways if your constitutionally cast vote over and over again is voided by the army and/or the judiciary.........

[robblok]

A coup by my book is illegitimate, i just prefer him above what we had before. I hope he can do the job he promised to do in the time allotted. I would not mind him staying on longer and taking on the police reforms.

I certainly don't agree with all things he has done, and YL was a lot easier on the eyes but work wise and what has been done this government illegitimate as it is has done more as previous ones. But still not done what I had hoped.

We will see what happens and if this was good or not.. in a few years we know more.

As for his character, can't say I like it much, seems grumpy, but as long as he does the job im ok with it.

[zaphod reborn]

Sorry, no election in Thailand will ever result in a legitimate government. There is too much corruption and it pervades every aspect of life in Thailand.

[trd]

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

What exactly do you mean by "getting things done". What things?

[trd]

Pravit is one of the few brave voices in Thailand. He needs company.

What has he done that is brave when he has a tank and the other chap doesn't.

[halloween]

"If a coup is compared to a situation where armed men seize control of a house that belongs to everyone, then the referendum is like the gun-slinging armed occupiers asking the other occupants whether they would like to have them stay on or not."

It reminds me of the old saying: "It's like three lambs and a lion deciding what's for lunch."

To take your analogy further back, the people in the house invited guests who started pocketing every valuable in sight, shitting in every corner, and refusing to leave when asked, inflicting violence and demanding a longer stay. The police have managed to evict them, but a police presence is needed until they understand that the "welcome" mat has been well and truly withdrawn.

[Linky]

I'd like to see him get things done with the boiler room crims. But wont happen, too many army palms have been greased.

[tigermoth]

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

What exactly do you mean by "getting things done". What things?

Exactly. What has he done??? Clean up a few beaches, get rid of of a few street vendors. What about a list of so called reforms instead of all this unsubstantiated natter.

[In Town]

Amazingly, the headline of this story says all that needs to be said on this issue. And its true!

[h90]

A coup by my book is illegitimate, i just prefer him above what we had before. I hope he can do the job he promised to do in the time allotted. I would not mind him staying on longer and taking on the police reforms.

I certainly don't agree with all things he has done, and YL was a lot easier on the eyes but work wise and what has been done this government illegitimate as it is has done more as previous ones. But still not done what I had hoped.

We will see what happens and if this was good or not.. in a few years we know more.

As for his character, can't say I like it much, seems grumpy, but as long as he does the job im ok with it.

A coup is only illegitimate when it fails. When it is successful it is legal. Else many European countries and the US government would be illegitimate and we would all still live in absolute monarchies.

[mmh8]

legitimacy is only a matter of power, we all know invasion of iraq was based on falsities, the scietists whose words were taken out of context commited suidicide unable to deal with implications

idealistic headlines would not prevent one from being arrested for attitude adjustment or similar human right transgressions if the wrong thing is published.

[mmh8]

 

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

 

your vote would remain insignificant since there was no democratic election, and voting did not get himn there, nor did it get him into his previous position.

the choice of muppets with blatant corruption and thuggery and muppets with hidden corruption, attitude adjustments , hidden thuggery.......

I am not sure which is worse, a bad thing, a very bad thing, a not nice thing. do you choose to eat a shit sandwich or a piece of bread with shit on top of it?

[robblok]

A coup by my book is illegitimate, i just prefer him above what we had before. I hope he can do the job he promised to do in the time allotted. I would not mind him staying on longer and taking on the police reforms.

I certainly don't agree with all things he has done, and YL was a lot easier on the eyes but work wise and what has been done this government illegitimate as it is has done more as previous ones. But still not done what I had hoped.

We will see what happens and if this was good or not.. in a few years we know more.

As for his character, can't say I like it much, seems grumpy, but as long as he does the job im ok with it.

A coup is only illegitimate when it fails. When it is successful it is legal. Else many European countries and the US government would be illegitimate and we would all still live in absolute monarchies.

Point taken, not 100% sure about it but yes its at least partly true.

[In Town]

A coup by my book is illegitimate, i just prefer him above what we had before. I hope he can do the job he promised to do in the time allotted. I would not mind him staying on longer and taking on the police reforms.

I certainly don't agree with all things he has done, and YL was a lot easier on the eyes but work wise and what has been done this government illegitimate as it is has done more as previous ones. But still not done what I had hoped.

We will see what happens and if this was good or not.. in a few years we know more.

As for his character, can't say I like it much, seems grumpy, but as long as he does the job im ok with it.

A coup is only illegitimate when it fails. When it is successful it is legal. Else many European countries and the US government would be illegitimate and we would all still live in absolute monarchies.

Point taken, not 100% sure about it but yes its at least partly true.

Not really true at all. A revolution is not the same thing as a coup. A coup occurs when a country's military takes power through armed force, a revolution when a people overthrow their government. I'm not certain, but I don't think there is any government in europe that owes its origin to a coup.

[Eric Loh]

The junta government can scheme for all they want, ultimately it's the economy or rather the rapidly deteriorating economy that will have the biggest say. Every government in the world will sink if the economy tanked and there are lots of noises and signs suggesting that we are heading in that direction. Voters will vote where their stomach takes them. Farmers north and south are hurting and feed up with the government impotency whose only plan is to plead for delay and reduce planting. SMEs which employed most of the working population are going out of business due to depressed sales and cash flow. What the use of all the meaningful reforms when the citizens are struggling to make ends meet. History here have shown that coups are bad for economy and that is what happening now.

[CantSpell]

"If a coup is compared to a situation where armed men seize control of a house that belongs to everyone, then the referendum is like the gun-slinging armed occupiers asking the other occupants whether they would like to have them stay on or not."

It reminds me of the old saying: "It's like three lambs and a lion deciding what's for lunch."

To take your analogy further back, the people in the house invited guests who started pocketing every valuable in sight, shitting in every corner, and refusing to leave when asked, inflicting violence and demanding a longer stay. The police have managed to evict them, but a police presence is needed until they understand that the "welcome" mat has been well and truly withdrawn.

And to take it a little further, the police in the house are now pocketing every valuable left, pissing in every corner and making loud announcement giving headaches to all the residents..

But some are trying to convince us this is acceptable as they are "policing"...

Not much has actually changed, only the looters have..

Edited June 17, 2015 by CantSpell

[Srikcir]

A coup by my book is illegitimate, i just prefer him above what we had before. I hope he can do the job he promised to do in the time allotted. I would not mind him staying on longer and taking on the police reforms.

I certainly don't agree with all things he has done, and YL was a lot easier on the eyes but work wise and what has been done this government illegitimate as it is has done more as previous ones. But still not done what I had hoped.

We will see what happens and if this was good or not.. in a few years we know more.

As for his character, can't say I like it much, seems grumpy, but as long as he does the job im ok with it.

A coup is not only illegitimate, it is CRIMINAL:

Organic Law, Article 113 of the Criminal Code states that anybody who commits treason by overthrowing the country's constitution faces the maximum penalty of death. While the NCPO abolished the 2007 Constitution, it did not abolish the Organic Laws.

It's no wonder then that the draft 2015 Constitution omitted the provisions of Article 68 of the 2007 Constitution, Part 13, “Right to Protect the Constitution,” that states:

“No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution."

[baboon]

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

What exactly do you mean by "getting things done". What things?

Exactly. What has he done??? Clean up a few beaches, get rid of of a few street vendors. What about a list of so called reforms instead of all this unsubstantiated natter.

Surely censorship and the suspension of civil rights are a small price to pay for such herculean accomplishments?

[masquerade]

I don't like the General - he's a prickly asshat. But he does get things done much better than any Thai politician. If he would seriously tackle police reform he would have my vote. But we know he won't. (not seriously). I have enjoyed the lack of red shirts and their idiotic violence, and would welcome having a few more years for the likes of Barnham, Chaivalit etc, to die off. But in the end - none of it really matters - time to go play with my dogs.

What has he done of fimportance to the people and the country.

Police reform - too hard basket

Education reform - all talk no positive action or outcomes.

Corruption at high/senior level - a lot of duck shoving and side stepping but other than for a couple of political foes no serious charges or jail time.

Democratically held elections - not in my lifetime.

And the list goes on.....

To all of you that are in awe of him think that a few little pathetic attempts at fixing things like lotteries, taxis and beach vendors keeps him in good stead, you are so naive, starry-eyed losers' This imposter is nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, nothing more, nothing less.

[halloween]

Not really true at all. A revolution is not the same thing as a coup. A coup occurs when a country's military takes power through armed force, a revolution when a people overthrow their government. I'm not certain, but I don't think there is any government in europe that owes its origin to a coup.

So we had a revolution followed by a coup? Can you actually have a coup when there is no government to seize power from?

[dageurreotype]

Nevertheless, gaining a "mandate" through the referendum would be a very sweet move

I keep seeing this 'mandate' and ' x% popularity', how on earth would anyone know? It's not as though they'd come out and say, 'well, sorry surfs, we only managed 10% of the vote so must now step down', izzit?

[CantSpell]

Nevertheless, gaining a "mandate" through the referendum would be a very sweet move

I keep seeing this 'mandate' and ' x% popularity', how on earth would anyone know? It's not as though they'd come out and say, 'well, sorry surfs, we only managed 10% of the vote so must now step down', izzit?

Also since the referendum is prepared by very same persons that he nominated at their current position...

I give you your job, then you can vote me in again to keep my job, and I will give you another good job

Pretty much one sided... Might as well ask Dusit to run a poll instead of a referendum; would be as much legitimate a mandate and much cheaper