Visa Runners!

[LaoPo]

The confusion about the NEW VISA RULES is complete

I am wondering:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

2. does it effect your family-life?

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

and most important:

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

I appreciate your comments but let's keep it serious without flaming or bashing, please?

Thanks

LaoPo

[nullx8]

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

of course !

Like my understanding .. are foreigners are not able to open (by themselfs)

legal a comapny in thailand.

would you pay off 50% shares (where you can have max. 49%)

and let a consultant employ 4 thais (at least) just to get a legal entry to the county

to get the (maybe) work from the consultant company ?

if you employ staff ..

you need to establish policies and also need to know hows going on.

as tourist is this not realy possible ... (legally)

also the idea comming as tourist to thailand to "get a eye on your bussiness"

is also not realy a issue, okay everyone will do, but in fact is this

Illegal employment (correct me if iam wrong)

iam personaly only hold in thailand by family ...

business is dead .. until the hot-air is gone ... (and this can take a while)

sounds to me like the toughts of some guy .. try to rule the world a generation ago.

(who need the world ... thailand have a swamp airport and money to burn ;-))) )

[george]

Was this topic regarding Tourist visas (TR) or doing business/work in Thailand (NON-?

[kiakaha]

sounds like yet another winging and moaning cryfest.

[LaoPo]

Was this topic regarding Tourist visas (TR) or doing business/work in Thailand (NON-?

The first, George.

Sorry if my topic is confusing but was meant to ask -genuinly- about the consequences for those Thai Immigration is/was pointing at: those who do Visa-runs; maybe with or without work/job/business.

Also meant for those who live in Thailand and might have an income from abroad.

LaoPo

[wcapensr]

The confusion about the NEW VISA RULES is complete

I am wondering:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

2. does it effect your family-life?

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

and most important:

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

I appreciate your comments but let's keep it serious without flaming or bashing, please?

Thanks

LaoPo

[geoffphuket]

The confusion about the NEW VISA RULES is complete

I am wondering:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

2. does it effect your family-life?

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

and most important:

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

I appreciate your comments but let's keep it serious without flaming or bashing, please?

Thanks

LaoPo

To answer your questions

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. N/A

geoffphuket

Edited September 15, 2006 by geoffphuket

[wcapensr]

1. This will not affect me financially.

2 No family in Thailand except GF.

3. I do not need to work 69 and retired.

I simply have not wanted to drive or mail my passport to LA to get extended visa.

I am eligible to get a retirement visa and have the required money in Thailand in a USD account.

So I will have to apply for at least a multiple entry visa and then extend to retirement in Laos, no police report or medical form. I was told that all I would need would be proof of at least 800,000 bhat in Thailand, which has less stringent requirements then Los Angelos and I can get the same day. I was told that I would have to bring in application one day then pick up the next. That would require either an over nite stay in LA or driving back to Las Vegas and returning the next day. I hate to stay in Los Angelos for any legnth of time. I have rechecked several times in the last few days and LA Royal Thailand Embassy seems up to date with the new requirements even so far as to have a scroll that says no extensions will be granted.

I am thinking of making an application in Atlanta, GA. I understand that I might be able to do this thru the mail with only showing at least income of 60,000 baht per month or bank balance of more then 800,000 baht or equivalent in any bank anywhere.

[opebo]

I'm not currently a visa runner, but I have been in the past and planned to be again when my current visa situation ends here. As to your questions:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

It would make staying in Thailand more expensive, as one would have to do 3 months only, followed by 3 months in Cambodia or elsewhere. This would mean either not availing oneself of long-term rentals or doubling up on rentals.

2. does it effect your family-life?

No! I'm strictly short-time only in Thailand! (anything else is a con)

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

No.

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

The only solution that allows a longer term holiday is to stay 3 months in Pattaya and then 3 months in some other reasonable hobby destination like Phnom Penh or perhaps Angeles City. Or perhaps simply to enjoy the girls for only 3 months and then go home. Lastly, one can simply write Thailand off and stay in those few countries that still welcome our custom, though some of them have their own visa difficulties. Probably the best alternative is Cambodia.. and it is still a decade or two away from being able to abuse the hated foreign walking-wallet.

[needforspeed2]

I'm not currently a visa runner, but I have been in the past and planned to be again when my current visa situation ends here. As to your questions:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

It would make staying in Thailand more expensive, as one would have to do 3 months only, followed by 3 months in Cambodia or elsewhere. This would mean either not availing oneself of long-term rentals or doubling up on rentals.

2. does it effect your family-life?

No! I'm strictly short-time only in Thailand! (anything else is a con)

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

No.

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

The only solution that allows a longer term holiday is to stay 3 months in Pattaya and then 3 months in some other reasonable hobby destination like Phnom Penh or perhaps Angeles City. Or perhaps simply to enjoy the girls for only 3 months and then go home. Lastly, one can simply write Thailand off and stay in those few countries that still welcome our custom, though some of them have their own visa difficulties. Probably the best alternative is Cambodia.. and it is still a decade or two away from being able to abuse the hated foreign walking-wallet.

totally agree.....

it is blatant that we are not welcomed....leave it alone and move on

[F1 Visa Runner]

For the ones that to still want to stay in Thailand all year around it will be no problem to continue doing this.

Even if the consulates in the sourranding countries of Thailand thightened the 60 day tourist visa to only be allowed as a single entry.

Example.

Lets say you start off in the same day as the new visa rules are put into action.

01 october you are entering Thailand after being to a consulate like in for example Penang and got your 60 days tourist visa single entry.

29 november you go to the immigration and apply for an extension of 30 days.

28 december you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

27 january you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

25 february you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

This will be the last 30 day VOA you can get for this period as the maximum stay in Thailand on VOA will be 3 x 30 days.

NOTE! In this situation you will actually not get a total of 90 days but only 88. This because the last day of the 30 day VOA visa also will be the first day on the next 30 day VOA. In the above case 27 january will eat up one extra day and also 25 february.

26 march head down to Penang in the early morning and get your 60 days tourist visa single entry.

This visa is ready in the afternoon on the 27 march.

27 march enter back into Thailand with your 60 day tourist visa single entry

25 may you go to the immigration and apply for an extension of 30 days.

23 june you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

22 july you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

21 august you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

This will be the last 30 day VOA you can get for this period as the maximum stay in Thailand on VOA will be 3 x 30 days.

19 september head down to Penang again and start it over again with the 60 day tourist visa.

The tricky part here could be this though. As the visas are counted in days but the immigration periods are counted in months and also together with your VOA`s eating up some days you are actually missing some days to complete the 6 months period.

So if you look at the first day of your first 30 day VOA in this case which was 28 december and count 6 months you will end up with 28 june. If you go back up in the post you will see that according to this plan you should start your second time of the 3 x 30 days VOA on june 23.

If the immigration officer is quick doing his math or it all being computerized and you might not be able to enter Thailand before the 28 june.

Easily solved with a few days holidaying in Penang moving the whole plan forward the extra needed days.

Wether they will enforce these missing days is unknown. You allready had a 60 days tourist that was extended into 90 days in the months between and it might be considered as starting from scratch again.. who knows.

My final thoughts about this whole thing is just it is a cleansing process. Nothing else.

What this seem to be is a new system that still will work for the not criminal tourist that just want to stay here all year round. The system that has been present would allow anyone to cross a border checkpoint for 10 years if they wanted as long as an International arrest warrant was not issued.

With this new system you will have to drop by a consulate to get your 60 day visa which gives the consulate the necessarry time (2 working days) to get in touch with officials from your country if they want.

The consulate are able to run a check up on you to see if everything is just fine if they are a little suspicious.

Lets say you`ve got some tax issues or other minor offends in your country but your country not going as far as issuing an international arrest warrant which is a of a much serious matter. A warrant of this kind would involve two countries on a much higher level and is only issued due to serious offends.

So if a consulate chose to run a check up and got in touch with officials from your country,

your country would be able to say something like, "We would like Thailand not to issue a visa to this person as we want him to come home and clear out certain things"

A system that actually would work if they want to these kind of people to leave Thailand.

I know most people will react negatively with anything that limit things in Thailand.. and why? Because everyone living here regard Thailand as just Sabai Sabai

[Gary A]

This doesn't affect me BUT that doesn't mean I am not concerned. I have a Thai wife and enough money that I don't need to use the support visa. HOWEVER, it wasn't always this way. Before my pensions started I was living off my savings with everything timed to the point when my pensions did start. I doubt I would be in Thailand today if things would have been like this back then. With this new development and the bogus company crack down I feel like the farangs have been taken advantage of and all that is important is our money.

The BIG question is what is next?

[blade63]

For the ones that to still want to stay in Thailand all year around it will be no problem to continue doing this.

Even if the consulates in the sourranding countries of Thailand thightened the 60 day tourist visa to only be allowed as a single entry.

Example.

Lets say you start off in the same day as the new visa rules are put into action.

01 october you are entering Thailand after being to a consulate like in for example Penang and got your 60 days tourist visa single entry.

29 november you go to the immigration and apply for an extension of 30 days.

28 december you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

27 january you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

25 february you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

This will be the last 30 day VOA you can get for this period as the maximum stay in Thailand on VOA will be 3 x 30 days.

NOTE! In this situation you will actually not get a total of 90 days but only 88. This because the last day of the 30 day VOA visa also will be the first day on the next 30 day VOA. In the above case 27 january will eat up one extra day and also 25 february.

26 march head down to Penang in the early morning and get your 60 days tourist visa single entry.

This visa is ready in the afternoon on the 27 march.

27 march enter back into Thailand with your 60 day tourist visa single entry

25 may you go to the immigration and apply for an extension of 30 days.

23 june you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

22 july you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

21 august you go to any border crossing for for a 30 day VOA (visa on arrival).

This will be the last 30 day VOA you can get for this period as the maximum stay in Thailand on VOA will be 3 x 30 days.

19 september head down to Penang again and start it over again with the 60 day tourist visa.

The tricky part here could be this though. As the visas are counted in days but the immigration periods are counted in months and also together with your VOA`s eating up some days you are actually missing some days to complete the 6 months period.

So if you look at the first day of your first 30 day VOA in this case which was 28 december and count 6 months you will end up with 28 june. If you go back up in the post you will see that according to this plan you should start your second time of the 3 x 30 days VOA on june 23.

If the immigration officer is quick doing his math or it all being computerized and you might not be able to enter Thailand before the 28 june.

Easily solved with a few days holidaying in Penang moving the whole plan forward the extra needed days.

Wether they will enforce these missing days is unknown. You allready had a 60 days tourist that was extended into 90 days in the months between and it might be considered as starting from scratch again.. who knows.

My final thoughts about this whole thing is just it is a cleansing process. Nothing else.

What this seem to be is a new system that still will work for the not criminal tourist that just want to stay here all year round. The system that has been present would allow anyone to cross a border checkpoint for 10 years if they wanted as long as an International arrest warrant was not issued.

With this new system you will have to drop by a consulate to get your 60 day visa which gives the consulate the necessarry time (2 working days) to get in touch with officials from your country if they want.

The consulate are able to run a check up on you to see if everything is just fine if they are a little suspicious.

Lets say you`ve got some tax issues or other minor offends in your country but your country not going as far as issuing an international arrest warrant which is a of a much serious matter. A warrant of this kind would involve two countries on a much higher level and is only issued due to serious offends.

So if a consulate chose to run a check up and got in touch with officials from your country,

your country would be able to say something like, "We would like Thailand not to issue a visa to this person as we want him to come home and clear out certain things"

A system that actually would work if they want to these kind of people to leave Thailand.

I know most people will react negatively with anything that limit things in Thailand.. and why? Because everyone living here regard Thailand as just Sabai Sabai

...or the other way around...my 30 day will expire first week of October and decided to do a border run last week of september to avail of more weeks. then will do 3 consecutive border runs and then off to penang for the valid tourist visa...and so on...

[Colonel_Mustard]

The confusion about the NEW VISA RULES is complete

I am wondering:

1. does it 'hurt' you, financially spoken?

2. does it effect your family-life?

3. does it effect your job/business interests?

and most important:

4. what are (or: could be) your solutions?

I appreciate your comments but let's keep it serious without flaming or bashing, please?

Thanks

LaoPo

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. N/A

[F1 Visa Runner]

The tricky part here could be this though. As the visas are counted in days but the immigration periods are counted in months and also together with your VOA`s eating up some days you are actually missing some days to complete the 6 months period.

So if you look at the first day of your first 30 day VOA in this case which was 28 december and count 6 months you will end up with 28 june. If you go back up in the post you will see that according to this plan you should start your second time of the 3 x 30 days VOA on june 23.

If the immigration officer is quick doing his math or it all being computerized and you might not be able to enter Thailand before the 28 june.

Easily solved with a few days holidaying in Penang moving the whole plan forward the extra needed days.

Wether they will enforce these missing days is unknown. You allready had a 60 days tourist that was extended into 90 days in the months between and it might be considered as starting from scratch again.. who knows.

...or the other way around...my 30 day will expire first week of October and decided to do a border run last week of september to avail of more weeks. then will do 3 consecutive border runs and then off to penang for the valid tourist visa...and so on...

That will also work out fine. Just remember about the missing days in the period of the 6 months as no one knows how they will handle this at border checkpoints. There will be 6 months untill a first case of this would appear.

Complaining about having to go to a consulate outside of Thailand once every 6 month would be wrong when pushing the system to a maximum.

If you could not afford this trip and maybe also the 5 days stay you would need to complete a 6 month period and I think Thailand is better off without you. With this little money and unable to work and you would then be a risk to yourself and others.

[blade63]

The tricky part here could be this though. As the visas are counted in days but the immigration periods are counted in months and also together with your VOA`s eating up some days you are actually missing some days to complete the 6 months period.

So if you look at the first day of your first 30 day VOA in this case which was 28 december and count 6 months you will end up with 28 june. If you go back up in the post you will see that according to this plan you should start your second time of the 3 x 30 days VOA on june 23.

If the immigration officer is quick doing his math or it all being computerized and you might not be able to enter Thailand before the 28 june.

Easily solved with a few days holidaying in Penang moving the whole plan forward the extra needed days.

Wether they will enforce these missing days is unknown. You allready had a 60 days tourist that was extended into 90 days in the months between and it might be considered as starting from scratch again.. who knows.

...or the other way around...my 30 day will expire first week of October and decided to do a border run last week of september to avail of more weeks. then will do 3 consecutive border runs and then off to penang for the valid tourist visa...and so on...

That will also work out fine. Just remember about the missing days in the period of the 6 months as no one knows how they will handle this at border checkpoints. There will be 6 months untill a first case of this would appear.

Complaining about having to go to a consulate outside of Thailand once every 6 month would be wrong when pushing the system to a maximum.

If you could not afford this trip and maybe also the 5 days stay you would need to complete a 6 month period and I think Thailand is better off without you. With this little money and unable to work and you would then be a risk to yourself and others.

well i didnt complain about having to go to a consulate outside Thailand once every 6 month and i can certainly afford staying 5 or a couple of days in any hotel outside Thailand at any point in time. I just dont want to go to a consulate as early as next month just to see how everything will turn out a couple of months from now. will need to monitor first the actual situation before venturing into a more concrete way to deal with this. visa under 50 with money is not applicable at the moment.

[Big Dogster]

This doesn't affect me BUT that doesn't mean I am not concerned. I have a Thai wife and enough money that I don't need to use the support visa. HOWEVER, it wasn't always this way. Before my pensions started I was living off my savings with everything timed to the point when my pensions did start. I doubt I would be in Thailand today if things would have been like this back then. With this new development and the bogus company crack down I feel like the farangs have been taken advantage of and all that is important is our money.

The BIG question is what is next?

You are a guy with his situation sorted but yet you realize this is not a positive development. I appreciate this from you and others in your situation. Input from somebody like geoffphuket and other like minds are useless to the discussion. Thanks again for understanding what's going on

[F1 Visa Runner]

Sorry blade63, this was in no way meant directly to you. Guess I should used "someone" instead of "you" then

[blade63]

Sorry blade63, this was in no way meant directly to you. Guess I should used "someone" instead of "you" then

No big deal Bro...

[tim77]

LaoPo . . .

I think your topic is most appropriate. For some people there will be no adverse impact due to the new rules and the intense confusion as to what they mean. For others there will be adverse impact. And this adverse impact will not just be to the "bad" people who are working illegally in Thailand. It might be wise to get an understanding of the adverse impact. I think this is the intent of your post.

For myself, I am married to a foreign wife. We own a condominium with a present value of about THB 5,000,000, and with the furnishings and art the total value is in the order of 7,000,000 Baht. I do not work in Thailand. I work on projects outside of Thailand, but use Thailand as my base to stay and search for jobs. It's a great country with wonderful people. I love the life style here. I have been here for many years, and have worked (with a work permit) many years for Thai companies. Thailand has become my home.

But, I worry about what will happen in the future. People who bought houses using a company (a practice which has been prevalent for many years) may now have difficulty reselling those homes (since company ownership is now suspect). People who used to be able to get an investment visa for a 3,000,000 Baht condo have seen two restrictions on this visa over the last few years. Now, it is a 10,000,000 Baht condo. People who used to go on multiple border visa runs can no longer do so. Tourist visas seem to be getting harder to get, and multiple entry ones seem to have become unobtainable, unless you are back in the U.S. or U.K. Confusion seems to exist as to whether a dependent wife may have a more difficult time in getting a visa.

Yes, a country may change its visa rules at any time. This is the right of any country.

But, where long established practices of property ownership/control are being changed and challenged . . . .and where long established visa customs change or become deeply unclear . . .it is time to be concerned about the future. The requirement for investment visa was raised from 3 million to 10 million. What if the requirement for a retirement visa changes by the same magnitude? What if the dependent visa for the wife is changed to require the same showing of funds as is required for the husband?

These forces driving these recent changes are a real concern and hardship for me. In the immediate future nothing will change for me. However, the hardship preceived by me, rightly or wrongly, is that I no longer feel that I can count on visa privileges in the future. And, I feel that I can no longer count on visa privileges for my wife in the future.

With sadness, I fear that as a prudent person I should start making relocation plans.

Edited September 17, 2006 by tim77

[tim77]

This doesn't affect me BUT that doesn't mean I am not concerned. I have a Thai wife and enough money that I don't need to use the support visa. HOWEVER, it wasn't always this way. Before my pensions started I was living off my savings with everything timed to the point when my pensions did start. I doubt I would be in Thailand today if things would have been like this back then. With this new development and the bogus company crack down I feel like the farangs have been taken advantage of and all that is important is our money.

The BIG question is what is next?

You hit it right on the head. "The BIG question is what is next?" You said it it seven words. It took me many paragraphs.

[Firefan]

Brilliant post Tim.

I have my own visa covered but feel for the people who are being caught by these changes, and do not have other alternatives.

Cheers!

[meom]

It won't effect me to much at the moment. I'm working rotation and depending upon how things will be enforced I prolly need a tourist visa every once in a while or marry the bitch for real.

For future it depends how much higher they will raise the bar. It wouldn't surprise me if financial requirements for marriage/retirement visa will be set higher in future but I guess I'll deal with that when it happens. Not much sense in worrying about something that might or might not happen in future.

As a last resort there's always overstay but i don't see that happen in the near future. At least not for me