An Immigration Surprise!

[HidyHo]

Japan has invested Billions of Dollars in Thailand, with further investments to follow, so it's hardly surprising that they get special treatment

I suggest that you read the thread, especially replies by NancyL, before making irrelevant generalization.

[Dante99]

If half the time and energy used for Immigration bitching over the past 5 years had been used to set up a "Club" and get a Saturday deal with Immigration for members, it would have been done 4 years ago.

How long will it take now for somebody to get it together?

[Mapguy]

Japan has invested Billions of Dollars in Thailand, with further investments to follow, so it's hardly surprising that they get special treatment

One of the most ignorant comments I've read on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai in a long time.

[northernjohn]

That explains why I've never seen more than 1 or 2 Japanese ex-pats at Immigration at any one time. A Japanese woman I struck up a conversation with at a popular bakery told me about a year ago that there is somewhere around 6,000 Japanese families living in C.M. according to her Consulate.

Thanks for the figure of 6,000.

If as said 2 go to immigration every day that would be ballpark 44 a month times 12 = 528 a month. 6000 divided by 12 = 500. That means there would be nobody at the Orchard hotel.

The last time I did my yearly the fellow told me they try to do 50 a day. Some days they do and other days they don't That particular day they did 61. I asked him how they managed that day to do so good he told me that they had a whole bunch come in with every thing ready to go.

Using the 50 figure he gave me and the 22 ballpark days I put up they would be doing 1,100 a month.

I have used the figures from this thread and guessed at the number of days they are open. I might have been better with 21. Any how 2 Japanese a day and 2 Americans a day. Where are the other 46 a day coming from?

If my math is wrong feel free to correct me. Remember I am using the 6,000 figures electrified supplied and the 12 days a year Folk Guitar supplied.

I have a sneaky hunch there is a lot more Americans than Japanese. A fair amount from Great Briton and a smattering from other countries.

The reason you numbers might be off is that you are starting with 6,000 people.

The information with which you were provided was 6,000 families... There is a difference.

And of course, that is nothing more than an estimation, not a census.

You are right but do you still stand by your implied same number of Americans doing yearly's as the Japanese?

Do the math.

[Mapguy]

Given fundamental serious difficulties with language, the arrangements are quite sensible.

Almost all the Japanese would speak better English than Thais.

There are a few other non English speaking races here.

After 15 years living and working in Japan, I'm forced to disagree with you. Despite studying it in high school and university (six years total,) it is extremely rare to find Japanese adults who can say more than hello and thank you. What they learn in school is translation using a dictionary. Until recently, almost no conversation. One hour a week in a class of 60 students doesn't give much opportunity to become comfortable with the language, much less fluent.

This is basically true. Teaching English and examinations in English in Japan have, as I have been told and alluded to by FolkGuitar, are changing to include more emphasis on conversational skills. Requirements traditionally focus on grammar, some vocabulary and reading and writing skills, definitely not conversational skills, and the dictionary is ubiquitous.

[northernjohn]

I've been aware the Japanese Long Stay Club was doing this for a long time. We've talked with Immigration about this as being something the Chiang Mai Expats Club could offer and we had to "guarantee" a certain number of participants with their documents all in order. It seemed we would have to find a venue with a copy service because I know, frankly, many people show up without their documents in order. Our current venues of Le Meridien Hotel and River Market don't offer copy services. It just didn't seem like something we could offer in conjunction with our regular monthly General Meetings.

We did have a very good meeting with Immigration officials in October and produced a nice video that is a good overview of Immigration procedures:

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/immigration-2014/

I`m a little gob smacked on reading this thread.

Are you saying that if the Chiang Mai Expats Club found a venue with copying facilities and with the attendance of certain number of participants that something could be arranged similar to the Japanese Long Stay Club for westerners?

This is the first time I have heard of the Long Stay Club and surely if such an arrangement is possible for us, can this be investigated further?

Beetlejuice, I've invited you to come to the Board meetings of CEC numerous times. If you'd chosen to get involved you may have discovered that there are actually three well-established Japanese expat clubs, each serving a slightly different segment of the Japanese population and a new one that is trying to be like Lanna Care Net. I know you've been here a long time, but there's still more to learn and involvement in the Board of CEC and service to your fellow expats are ways to continue to grow.

Seriously, though a big part of the reason why this hasn't been pursued is that there is only so much that a very limited number of people can do. The current CEC Board members are stretched very thin. Recently, we put out an appeal for an couple of openings on the Board and the only people who responded were a couple of newcomers. We definitely appreciate their stepping up, but taking on a project like this (having Immigration come to CEC once a month) requires the skills of someone with executive ability who has been in Chiang Mai for a while and knows how things get done.

Nancy how much do you think one more day a month for American's only would elevate the problem when the current immigration has two officers doing 50a day. I think it would just be a dent in the bucket.As has been pointed out here 6,000 Japanese families not retirement people. Even if it was and only to a day filed it would not be necessary for the Saturday set up they enjoy.

The question is how much difference would it make for 50 more once a month?

As I said the 50 was a figure one of the officers that does them gave me. I believe he was the same one who did most of the speaking at the Ex Pat meeting.

[Mapguy]

Just out of curiosity, which language group would be served at the Expats Club? Those speaking American English, Aussies, Kiwis or those speaking properly ?!

Not familiar with the national make-up statistically of the Expats Club, I'd guess, just by observation, that it must be largely American in membership. Regardless, given it is almost universally a club for native English speakers. Why it would be useful, given the numbers, for Thai Immigration to set up its multi-service shop there isn;t clear. It doesn't seem to make much sense, copy machine or not. I can not see that either the River Market or the hotel would really be pleased, and the whole idea seems to be an onerous chore for the CEC.

The Immigration Department move to Promenada is another matter. That does seem practical.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Mapguy

[Ace of Pop]

Japan has invested Billions of Dollars in Thailand, with further investments to follow, so it's hardly surprising that they get special treatment

The retirees are not investing billions.

Good point , educated Japanese and Chinese regard speaking English as a Status Thing as do Malaysians. For Thais its a Benz Euro Taxi and a Gold Chain.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Japan has invested Billions of Dollars in Thailand, with further investments to follow, so it's hardly surprising that they get special treatment

One of the most ignorant comments I've read on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai in a long time.

What is so ignorant about that comment? Japan has been a massive investor in Thailand for decades. Is it not the biggest investor? Thais do rate rate some foreigners higher than others. Roughly Japanese will be respected people and at the top end. Cambodians and Burmese will be at the opposite end.

Say a Japanese person has some kind of accident or incident which involves the Police. The Police will give more respect to the Japanese person than a person from a country they don't rate as high. Things will be smother and easier to let slide. Japan does give lot of aid also in the region, funding airports, bridges and what have you. This does filter down to the Japanese being looked at favorably. Would the Nigerian community in Bangkok be able to get a Saturday morning immigration thing set up once a month? Probably not.

I was going through the Sadao or Padang Besar(long time ago but i think it was Padang Besar) land border into Malaysia. I was on a 3 day overstay and was ready to pay the 300 baht fine no worries. I wasn't allowed to pay the fine. They didn't want it. I had the money in my hand. The immigration guy only wanted to talk about "John"? I was confused, John who, what? It was John Major the then British PM . He had been through with his cavalcade, probably got out and shook a few hands. I turn up a few hours later and am let off my overstay fine, immigration officer was super friendly. Brits were looked upon favorably that day.

[luther]

I used to work at an international school in Thailand. Farang staff was about 50 people. Most years the school paid immigration to come to the school and handle the renewal of work and re-entry permits. Staff members submitted paperwork about ten days in advance. It was well understood and appreciated that the school was paying immigration for this service. It required a highly organized Thai native who could speak fluent English and develop a goof rapport with the immigration officials involved. Every few years the Thai staff member assigned to this task changed. A couple of them loved the job. Most of them hated it.

[Trujillo]

-- An expats' club should serve the needs of any nationality.

-- If there are so many Japanese around, why is it I never see ANY in any of the 18 Japanese restaurants in Central Festival?

-- There has to be serious kickbacks going on for the immigration office to have their people work on Saturday and offsite.

-- Seriously? The only thing stopping the expat club from holding its own special service is the lack of a copy machine? My printer makes copies. I can let you use it for 5,000 baht a month

-- The very idea that a certain nationality can get preferential treatment for immigration services like this is appalling. Just because some golf retiree is from Japan he doesn't have to either try in vain to get a number for his annual extension or pay through the nose for some agent to do it? <deleted> that!

That's blatant racism.

[FolkGuitar]

1-- An expats' club should serve the needs of any nationality.

2-- If there are so many Japanese around, why is it I never see ANY in any of the 18 Japanese restaurants in Central Festival?

3-- There has to be serious kickbacks going on for the immigration office to have their people work on Saturday and offsite.

4-- Seriously? The only thing stopping the expat club from holding its own special service is the lack of a copy machine? My printer makes copies. I can let you use it for 5,000 baht a month

5-- The very idea that a certain nationality can get preferential treatment for immigration services like this is appalling. Just because some golf retiree is from Japan he doesn't have to either try in vain to get a number for his annual extension or pay through the nose for some agent to do it? <deleted> that!

That's blatant racism.

1. Yes. And I'm sure it does.

2. Because they appreciate good taste. Those restaurants do not provide it. Try to get a table at the good Japanese restaurants and see what happens.

3. Paying 'Tea Money' has been the standard way of doing business in Asia for centuries. Why are you so shocked?

4. That one had me stumped too...

5, The majority of Japanese expats are NOT retirees. They are middle-management and upper-management staff (and their families) at the many Japanese-owned factories outside of Chiang Mai. And they DO pay an agent to do it. The agent is the Japanese Long Stay Club. They submit their paperwork one week earlier, the Club's agent goes over all the documents, get's everything in order, so when presented to the Immigration Officer, it only takes five minutes to process. I don't know how many Immigration Officers are sent there, but they are able to handle the needs of quite a few people in one day. Not racism, but appreciation of people who work together for efficient and expedited bureaucracy. If all the Japanese expats were to have to go through the regular Immigration Office, you might have to stand on line from 3am instead of 5am!

[slipperylobster]

As of 1 April....the rest of us were allowed to do 90 day reporting at 7/11..

according to Thai Visa.

I am still waiting in line.

[Trujillo]

2. Because they appreciate good taste. Those restaurants do not provide it. Try to get a table at the good Japanese restaurants and see what happens.

Point taken. Wish there were more Chinese expats drawing the need for good Chinese restaurants.

3. Paying 'Tea Money' has been the standard way of doing business in Asia for centuries. Why are you so shocked?

I am not shocked. What I failed to make clear was that I bet instead of tea money, the amount is extraordinary. I'd pay baksheesh or whatever to make the process go smoother myself. But I bet these fellows, and their companies if that's the case, make it very worthwhile to get the immigration people up and moving on their day off.

5, The majority of Japanese expats are NOT retirees. They are middle-management and upper-management staff (and their families) at the many Japanese-owned factories outside of Chiang Mai. And they DO pay an agent to do it. The agent is the Japanese Long Stay Club. They submit their paperwork one week earlier, the Club's agent goes over all the documents, get's everything in order, so when presented to the Immigration Officer, it only takes five minutes to process. I don't know how many Immigration Officers are sent there, but they are able to handle the needs of quite a few people in one day. Not racism, but appreciation of people who work together for efficient and expedited bureaucracy. And pay big kickbacks.... If all the Japanese expats were to have to go through the regular Immigration Office, you might have to stand on line from 3am instead of 5am! I tried 2am the last time and still didn't even get close...the system is that broken.

[NancyL]

I used to work at an international school in Thailand. Farang staff was about 50 people. Most years the school paid immigration to come to the school and handle the renewal of work and re-entry permits. Staff members submitted paperwork about ten days in advance. It was well understood and appreciated that the school was paying immigration for this service. It required a highly organized Thai native who could speak fluent English and develop a goof rapport with the immigration officials involved. Every few years the Thai staff member assigned to this task changed. A couple of them loved the job. Most of them hated it.

I don't know how to use the "multi-quote" feature, or else I would also include a section of Trujillo's post about how the Japanese club does it. Much like how Luther's described the visa extensions being done when he worked at the international school.

While I mentioned the "lack of a copier" as a problem, what is really the problem is the lack of organization skills & will within CEC to get this off the ground. The system Luther describes is how it would have to work, with people submitting paperwork in advance and having someone check and organize it, so that the Immigration officers can work quickly.

I think most expats would expect this to be a free service where they could just wander in during the "open hours" and hold up the queue asking questions of the Immigration officer. It can't work that way to be efficient. Part of what caused us to shelf the idea was the Immigration wanted a minimum guaranteed income for the day and the only way that would work was to either expedite the traffic or pay them extra.

Incidentally, the membership of CEC is not majority Americans. They are only about 40% of the members, with British and Aussies being pretty tied for the number two spot at about 25% each, with a nice representation from Canada, New Zealand and Europe. So, anything that CEC would put together would have to be available to all members.

I'm sorry, but it's not just a matter of setting up a table for the Immigration people and getting a copier/scanner for those who neglect to do their copies in advance. It would involve a fair amount of publicity, education and planning to be sure that people understand the ground rules of using the service.

[Beetlejuice]

I've been aware the Japanese Long Stay Club was doing this for a long time. We've talked with Immigration about this as being something the Chiang Mai Expats Club could offer and we had to "guarantee" a certain number of participants with their documents all in order. It seemed we would have to find a venue with a copy service because I know, frankly, many people show up without their documents in order. Our current venues of Le Meridien Hotel and River Market don't offer copy services. It just didn't seem like something we could offer in conjunction with our regular monthly General Meetings.

We did have a very good meeting with Immigration officials in October and produced a nice video that is a good overview of Immigration procedures:

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/immigration-2014/

I`m a little gob smacked on reading this thread.

Are you saying that if the Chiang Mai Expats Club found a venue with copying facilities and with the attendance of certain number of participants that something could be arranged similar to the Japanese Long Stay Club for westerners?

This is the first time I have heard of the Long Stay Club and surely if such an arrangement is possible for us, can this be investigated further?

Beetlejuice, I've invited you to come to the Board meetings of CEC numerous times. If you'd chosen to get involved you may have discovered that there are actually three well-established Japanese expat clubs, each serving a slightly different segment of the Japanese population and a new one that is trying to be like Lanna Care Net. I know you've been here a long time, but there's still more to learn and involvement in the Board of CEC and service to your fellow expats are ways to continue to grow.

Seriously, though a big part of the reason why this hasn't been pursued is that there is only so much that a very limited number of people can do. The current CEC Board members are stretched very thin. Recently, we put out an appeal for an couple of openings on the Board and the only people who responded were a couple of newcomers. We definitely appreciate their stepping up, but taking on a project like this (having Immigration come to CEC once a month) requires the skills of someone with executive ability who has been in Chiang Mai for a while and knows how things get done.

It`s amazing how you turn everything into a confrontation, when all I asked was a simple question, which you have now answered in your last paragraph.

Nevertheless, thank you for your reply and still very interesting. So I assume what you are saying is that it is possible to bring the Immigration processes out of their official premises to a rendezvous point somewhere else under certain conditions and circumstances.

I thank you for making us aware of this and will delve into this further.

[theDukes]

I pay Assist Thaivisa to do my yearly renewal and 90 day reporting every year and it only takes me 20-30 minutes a year to get it all done. I show up to immigration, walk in the back, say hello to the Assist Thaivisa staff and to the immigration officer, sign a couple of papers and go home. Later they drop off my passport. All very pleasant. For 90 days I drop everything at the office and they send it back later. Assist Thaivisa, the way to go.

[hml367]

I pay Assist Thaivisa to do my yearly renewal and 90 day reporting every year and it only takes me 20-30 minutes a year to get it all done. I show up to immigration, walk in the back, say hello to the Assist Thaivisa staff and to the immigration officer, sign a couple of papers and go home. Later they drop off my passport. All very pleasant. For 90 days I drop everything at the office and they send it back later. Assist Thaivisa, the way to go.

Many people do this. Many people complained about visa agents not very long ago (some still complain).

Now a thread about a club/organization doing what visa agents do.

[evenstevens]

I

While I mentioned the "lack of a copier" as a problem, what is really the problem is the lack of organization skills & will within CEC to get this off the ground. The system Luther describes is how it would have to work, with people submitting paperwork in advance and having someone check and organize it, so that the Immigration officers can work quickly.

I think most expats would expect this to be a free service where they could just wander in during the "open hours" and hold up the queue asking questions of the Immigration officer. It can't work that way to be efficient. Part of what caused us to shelf the idea was the Immigration wanted a minimum guaranteed income for the day and the only way that would work was to either expedite the traffic or pay them extra.

Incidentally, the membership of CEC is not majority Americans. They are only about 40% of the members, with British and Aussies being pretty tied for the number two spot at about 25% each, with a nice representation from Canada, New Zealand and Europe. So, anything that CEC would put together would have to be available to all members.

I'm sorry, but it's not just a matter of setting up a table for the Immigration people and getting a copier/scanner for those who neglect to do their copies in advance. It would involve a fair amount of publicity, education and planning to be sure that people understand the ground rules of using the service.

40% membership of the C.E.C.are amercians, thats majority ,kindly do your maths again

the remainder of your post is on another planet, but many thks for the giggle

a very nice afternoon to all

[mesquite]

I

While I mentioned the "lack of a copier" as a problem, what is really the problem is the lack of organization skills & will within CEC to get this off the ground. The system Luther describes is how it would have to work, with people submitting paperwork in advance and having someone check and organize it, so that the Immigration officers can work quickly.

I think most expats would expect this to be a free service where they could just wander in during the "open hours" and hold up the queue asking questions of the Immigration officer. It can't work that way to be efficient. Part of what caused us to shelf the idea was the Immigration wanted a minimum guaranteed income for the day and the only way that would work was to either expedite the traffic or pay them extra.

Incidentally, the membership of CEC is not majority Americans. They are only about 40% of the members, with British and Aussies being pretty tied for the number two spot at about 25% each, with a nice representation from Canada, New Zealand and Europe. So, anything that CEC would put together would have to be available to all members.

I'm sorry, but it's not just a matter of setting up a table for the Immigration people and getting a copier/scanner for those who neglect to do their copies in advance. It would involve a fair amount of publicity, education and planning to be sure that people understand the ground rules of using the service.

40% membership of the C.E.C.are amercians, thats majority ,kindly do your maths again

the remainder of your post is on another planet, but many thks for the giggle

a very nice afternoon to all

A majority is more than 50%.

[Sparkles]

I pay Assist Thaivisa to do my yearly renewal and 90 day reporting every year and it only takes me 20-30 minutes a year to get it all done. I show up to immigration, walk in the back, say hello to the Assist Thaivisa staff and to the immigration officer, sign a couple of papers and go home. Later they drop off my passport. All very pleasant. For 90 days I drop everything at the office and they send it back later. Assist Thaivisa, the way to go.

Many people do this. Many people complained about visa agents not very long ago (some still complain).

Now a thread about a club/organization doing what visa agents do.

Its about choice... Dave says he takes about 30 minutes each year to complete his Immigration requirements,can understand that he uses an agent and he is a busy man.

For me it takes,with an on line appointment, less than an hour every year.My 90 day is mailed in at the PO when we go shopping however I am a retiree.

I save 6,000 b or whatever the cost is.

Lets not go down the agent v self route again its been flogged to death. Do whatever suits your circumstances.

[chiang mai]

I

While I mentioned the "lack of a copier" as a problem, what is really the problem is the lack of organization skills & will within CEC to get this off the ground. The system Luther describes is how it would have to work, with people submitting paperwork in advance and having someone check and organize it, so that the Immigration officers can work quickly.

I think most expats would expect this to be a free service where they could just wander in during the "open hours" and hold up the queue asking questions of the Immigration officer. It can't work that way to be efficient. Part of what caused us to shelf the idea was the Immigration wanted a minimum guaranteed income for the day and the only way that would work was to either expedite the traffic or pay them extra.

Incidentally, the membership of CEC is not majority Americans. They are only about 40% of the members, with British and Aussies being pretty tied for the number two spot at about 25% each, with a nice representation from Canada, New Zealand and Europe. So, anything that CEC would put together would have to be available to all members.

I'm sorry, but it's not just a matter of setting up a table for the Immigration people and getting a copier/scanner for those who neglect to do their copies in advance. It would involve a fair amount of publicity, education and planning to be sure that people understand the ground rules of using the service.

40% membership of the C.E.C.are amercians, thats majority ,kindly do your maths again

the remainder of your post is on another planet, but many thks for the giggle

a very nice afternoon to all

A majority is more than 50%.

Not to be pedantic, (but to be pedantic I suppose): a majority is the greater percentage share when compared to the alternatives.

[chiang mai]

I pay Assist Thaivisa to do my yearly renewal and 90 day reporting every year and it only takes me 20-30 minutes a year to get it all done. I show up to immigration, walk in the back, say hello to the Assist Thaivisa staff and to the immigration officer, sign a couple of papers and go home. Later they drop off my passport. All very pleasant. For 90 days I drop everything at the office and they send it back later. Assist Thaivisa, the way to go.

Ditto. Nothing (relative to scale) on the planet could be more simple and easier.

[mesquite]

A majority is "more than half"

Edited July 7, 2015 by mesquite

[chiang mai]

A majority is "more than half"

My apologies, you are correct.

Whaaaa!

[evenstevens]

A majority is "more than half"

My apologies, you are correct.

Whaaaa!

thks fellas for your clarification

when their is two or more candidates PLURALITY kicks in (largest percentage)

majority is given the boot (more then half) singular i think from memory

so chiangmai my old cobber, u were on the money first time around

nice to have some good banter

Edited July 7, 2015 by evenstevens

[Issanman]

The US embassy does have an "Outreach" program that travels around Thailand and offers useful services:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

[chiang mai]

I am shamed, hari kari is possible, alternatively, a large Leo might suffice.

[krisb]

I used to work at an international school in Thailand. Farang staff was about 50 people. Most years the school paid immigration to come to the school and handle the renewal of work and re-entry permits. Staff members submitted paperwork about ten days in advance. It was well understood and appreciated that the school was paying immigration for this service. It required a highly organized Thai native who could speak fluent English and develop a goof rapport with the immigration officials involved. Every few years the Thai staff member assigned to this task changed. A couple of them loved the job. Most of them hated it.

I don't know how to use the "multi-quote" feature, or else I would also include a section of Trujillo's post about how the Japanese club does it. Much like how Luther's described the visa extensions being done when he worked at the international school.

While I mentioned the "lack of a copier" as a problem, what is really the problem is the lack of organization skills & will within CEC to get this off the ground. The system Luther describes is how it would have to work, with people submitting paperwork in advance and having someone check and organize it, so that the Immigration officers can work quickly.

I think most expats would expect this to be a free service where they could just wander in during the "open hours" and hold up the queue asking questions of the Immigration officer. It can't work that way to be efficient. Part of what caused us to shelf the idea was the Immigration wanted a minimum guaranteed income for the day and the only way that would work was to either expedite the traffic or pay them extra.

Incidentally, the membership of CEC is not majority Americans. They are only about 40% of the members, with British and Aussies being pretty tied for the number two spot at about 25% each, with a nice representation from Canada, New Zealand and Europe. So, anything that CEC would put together would have to be available to all members.

I'm sorry, but it's not just a matter of setting up a table for the Immigration people and getting a copier/scanner for those who neglect to do their copies in advance. It would involve a fair amount of publicity, education and planning to be sure that people understand the ground rules of using the service.

So in other words, the Japanese managed to get their act together in CM

[Beetlejuice]

I pay Assist Thaivisa to do my yearly renewal and 90 day reporting every year and it only takes me 20-30 minutes a year to get it all done. I show up to immigration, walk in the back, say hello to the Assist Thaivisa staff and to the immigration officer, sign a couple of papers and go home. Later they drop off my passport. All very pleasant. For 90 days I drop everything at the office and they send it back later. Assist Thaivisa, the way to go.

Many people do this. Many people complained about visa agents not very long ago (some still complain).

Now a thread about a club/organization doing what visa agents do.

Its about choice... Dave says he takes about 30 minutes each year to complete his Immigration requirements,can understand that he uses an agent and he is a busy man.

For me it takes,with an on line appointment, less than an hour every year.My 90 day is mailed in at the PO when we go shopping however I am a retiree.

I save 6,000 b or whatever the cost is.

Lets not go down the agent v self route again its been flogged to death. Do whatever suits your circumstances.

Quite agree.

So far I have been lucky and managed to obtain an on-line slot each year. I would begrudge having to use a middle man in order to obtain my visa, not only for the amount of money involved that will make certain people extremely rich for doing absolutely nothing except securing a place in the queue, but also the power that goes with it, meaning that if I am unfortunate enough to have to go via an agent having no other choices regarding business at Immigration means that`s more kiss a-se I would have to do and more people having to be appeased to ensure my long stay here.

And also quite rightly as you say; Lets not go down the agent v self route again its been flogged to death. Do whatever suits your circumstances.