Using an Expired Passport as Collateral (Motorbike Rentals etc) - Breaking a Law?

[Dumbastheycome]

If any business requires more than a copy of your passport whether it be valid or not I would not do business with them!

Thai Govt Depts, Banks , Hospitals will ask for COPIES of your best identification. A retail business that demands more should be walked away from !

[Dumbastheycome]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

No country demands a passport on entry from one of it's citizens.

It is not illegal but they will find you if you try to rip them off and probably do something illegal to you.

Every Country requires some form of I.D. from anyone entering the Country legally, an expired Passport is still I.D. but you can't just stroll up to Immigration U.K. (or wherever) with absolutely no Documentation and declare "I am a citizen, let me in".

Patrick

Obviously. A driver's license would be enough.

Are you sure an expired passport is legal ID? I have had situations where I was told it wasn't, or do you mean wen entering the country of your birth?

An expired Passport is not a legally useable document...but is valid as a referrable record of current status... by being the property of the issuing Government. As property of that issuing Government you have no right to submit/ surrender it as security...only as verification of ID. Even Hotels that ask to hold your passport should be refused !

[Jonmarleesco]

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't realise asking for your passport as a deposit was actually illegal! In that case no problem, I will keep it for that purpose.

I've tried to refuse giving it a couple of times, but never worked! And switching to another shop is not easy if you're renting +600cc bikes.

Unlike in the US, where I'm from they just send us the new passport and tell us to cut a corner off the old passport to make it invalid by ourselves.

Yes and they cut the corner off UK Passports in the UK before they return them.It's also doubtful the worth of an expired Passport,as the International front page is in English/Thai,so not too difficult to read!

They don't cut the corners off them when renewed from here; they don't have them to cut the corners off.

[evadgib]

I would never trust leaving my passport anywhere, its illegal for a British citizen to do this,

A British passport is property of The Crown we all know but which law states it is illegal to leave it anywhere as security. Its common practice to ask for pp befor treatment if the patient isnt carrying cash/cc to cover expenses. Not disputing its advisable but we need distinction between common sense and legality.

Common Sense: Valid passports in unauthorized hands can and have been cloned in a matter of minutes. The first a victim knows about it is when the bills start rolling in or they get their collars felt at an airport or border crossing.

Does anyone still think it's a good idea?

As for the OP; If he's been here long enough to replace a passport the 2nd hand market is surely cheaper than renting something to get around on.

[Thongkorn]

I would never trust leaving my passport anywhere, its illegal for a British citizen to do this,

A British passport is property of The Crown we all know but which law states it is illegal to leave it anywhere as security. Its common practice to ask for pp befor treatment if the patient isnt carrying cash/cc to cover expenses. Not disputing its advisable but we need distinction between common sense and legality.

Why would any one risk being held to ransom becasue their passport is in the hands of someone else.you are open to blackmail before they return your passport. Its is illegal because its the property of the Crown. not yours.

[tonydandelot]

EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN THAILAND UNLESS YOU ARE RICH OR YOU ARE THE POLICE, THEN THE COUNTRY HAS NO LAW FOR YOU!

[fey]

Since it is illegal for them to ask for it, illegal for you to give it to them and illegal for them to have it, this is quite okay.

not legally.

mis-using a government id potentially puts you in a position of having it revoked and not able to get another or on some kind of esoteric "no-fly" blacklist that you never get out from.

yes, it's a long shot. but the risk is there. and believe it, there is a clause somewhere in fine print that says you can't use an expired or invalid doc knowingly.

[MAJIC]

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't realise asking for your passport as a deposit was actually illegal! In that case no problem, I will keep it for that purpose.

I've tried to refuse giving it a couple of times, but never worked! And switching to another shop is not easy if you're renting +600cc bikes.

Unlike in the US, where I'm from they just send us the new passport and tell us to cut a corner off the old passport to make it invalid by ourselves.

Yes and they cut the corner off UK Passports in the UK before they return them.It's also doubtful the worth of an expired Passport,as the International front page is in English/Thai,so not too difficult to read!

They don't cut the corners off them when renewed from here; they don't have them to cut the corners off.

So are you saying:you do not have to include your old Passport in your application for a new UK Passport? applied for from Thailand???

[krisb]

Since it is illegal for them to ask for it, illegal for you to give it to them and illegal for them to have it, this is quite okay.

Exactly. Little bit like 2 wrongs do make a right.

By law your passport is not meant to be given to anyone to keep so it's a very good idea using an old pp like that. Best tip in a long time!

Edited July 30, 2015 by krisb

[alanrchase]

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't realise asking for your passport as a deposit was actually illegal! In that case no problem, I will keep it for that purpose.

I've tried to refuse giving it a couple of times, but never worked! And switching to another shop is not easy if you're renting +600cc bikes.

Unlike in the US, where I'm from they just send us the new passport and tell us to cut a corner off the old passport to make it invalid by ourselves.

Yes and they cut the corner off UK Passports in the UK before they return them.It's also doubtful the worth of an expired Passport,as the International front page is in English/Thai,so not too difficult to read!

They don't cut the corners off them when renewed from here; they don't have them to cut the corners off.

So are you saying:you do not have to include your old Passport in your application for a new UK Passport? applied for from Thailand???

Apparently you have to give them a colour photocopy of every page of your passport. You keep your passport but are not allowed to travel on it.

[thaibeachlovers]

Unless it has got holes in it or some other means of identifying it as expired, by all means use it. It is ILLEGAL to demand a passport as security and it is a SCAM, SCAM, SCAM. The punks that demand it are just CROOKS.

People that hand over their passports are MUGS and probably deserve to get taken in a well known and well publicised scam. There is never a NEED to rent a m'bike in Thailand as public transport is available everywhere. I have travelled all over and never needed to rent one to get around.

[Neeranam]

You need to get a letter from the UK embassy in order to transfer visas. They give you the snip. My last two passports were cut off but not all the pages by the UK embassy in Bangkok.

[fitfalang]

If any business requires more than a copy of your passport whether it be valid or not I would not do business with them!

Thai Govt Depts, Banks , Hospitals will ask for COPIES of your best identification. A retail business that demands more should be walked away from !

But sometimes there's not much choice. For example one time I wanted a 600cc Kawasaki ER6n for a weekend trip and only 2 places had them (or big bikes in general) in Chiang Mai. The other one had insurance covering 80% self caused damages but wanted my passport, the other one had no insurance at all. So not much of a choice there really!

I would never trust leaving my passport anywhere, its illegal for a British citizen to do this,

A British passport is property of The Crown we all know but which law states it is illegal to leave it anywhere as security. Its common practice to ask for pp befor treatment if the patient isnt carrying cash/cc to cover expenses. Not disputing its advisable but we need distinction between common sense and legality.

Common Sense: Valid passports in unauthorized hands can and have been cloned in a matter of minutes. The first a victim knows about it is when the bills start rolling in or they get their collars felt at an airport or border crossing.

Does anyone still think it's a good idea?

As for the OP; If he's been here long enough to replace a passport the 2nd hand market is surely cheaper than renting something to get around on.

Yeah that's right, but good +600cc big bikes are quite expensive in Thailand and a 125cc scooter is enough for BKK. So it's nice to rent a big bike for weekend trips instead of having one here in Thailand. Once I have enough money, i'll get my own one for sure.

[thaibeachlovers]

If any business requires more than a copy of your passport whether it be valid or not I would not do business with them!

Thai Govt Depts, Banks , Hospitals will ask for COPIES of your best identification. A retail business that demands more should be walked away from !

But sometimes there's not much choice. For example one time I wanted a 600cc Kawasaki ER6n for a weekend trip and only 2 places had them (or big bikes in general) in Chiang Mai. The other one had insurance covering 80% self caused damages but wanted my passport, the other one had no insurance at all. So not much of a choice there really!

A British passport is property of The Crown we all know but which law states it is illegal to leave it anywhere as security. Its common practice to ask for pp befor treatment if the patient isnt carrying cash/cc to cover expenses. Not disputing its advisable but we need distinction between common sense and legality.

Common Sense: Valid passports in unauthorized hands can and have been cloned in a matter of minutes. The first a victim knows about it is when the bills start rolling in or they get their collars felt at an airport or border crossing.

Does anyone still think it's a good idea?

As for the OP; If he's been here long enough to replace a passport the 2nd hand market is surely cheaper than renting something to get around on.

Yeah that's right, but good +600cc big bikes are quite expensive in Thailand and a 125cc scooter is enough for BKK. So it's nice to rent a big bike for weekend trips instead of having one here in Thailand. Once I have enough money, i'll get my own one for sure.

So, just for the pleasure of riding a big bike in Thailand you are willing to risk being saddled with thousands of baht in the scam, or having your passport cloned? It's all good till it's not.