Questions regarding Surinder Singh Route via EEA family permit

[SS queries]

Hi all,

I have a number of questions I’ve been struggling to find answers to regarding the Surinder Singh Route. I am from the UK and wish to bring my Thai wife and daughter into the UK, but don’t meet the financial requirements of over £18,600 per year, so I plan to use the Surinder Singh route via Ireland, but I still have reservations of how easy it is in practice. So my understanding is as follows:

1. Move to Ireland and find a job exceeding 12 hours a week. Apply for residence and seek accommodation with utility bills etc.

2. Apply for my wife to enter Ireland on a non-EEA spouse visa to Ireland (how difficult is this?).

3. Move my ‘centre of life’ there. i.e. learn the local language, engage in community, strengthen family life.

4. Live there for at least 3 months (I’m aiming for >6 months).

5. Apply for EEA family permit to bring wife back to England.

My daughter is 10 months old and I am going to register the birth abroad and apply for her passport as soon as I get back to England in a few weeks. Assuming that goes smoothly there should be no problems there. My queries, questions and concerns are as follows…

On the gov.uk website regarding EEA guidance it says the following regarding EEA family permits: that they last 6 months and that refusal can occur if maintenance and accommodation requirements aren’t met which may result in a recourse to public funds.

As I understand it this is for non-UK citizens that wish to bring their EEA family into the UK, but as a UK citizen that has then been a resident in Ireland with his non-EEA wife and daughter I can use this same EEA family permit to entitle me to bring my wife into the UK for 5 years without any proof of accommodation requirements or meeting any set financial requirements and don’t have to prove that there will be no recourse to public funds. Is this correct?

As I understand it I’m exercising my EU treaty rights to live (with my family) and work in another state and then bring them back under EU law as opposed to UK law. I don’t see this as a loophole as I am an EU citizen as well as a UK citizen, but does anyone have any idea if these rules will be strengthened by the UK government as they plan to renegotiate their position in the EU before the in/out referendum? From what I understand their hands are pretty much tied with regard to this.

So I’d like to confirm that the visa does actually grant 5 years and not 6 months and if so please explain why (if it’s possible without tons of technical jargon) and that there is no proof of adequate accommodation as is the case when applying via the normal UK immigration route. I believe I would have to provide a two bedroom flat for this, but our daughter is young and sleeps in the same bed at the moment. Also are the only financial requirements that you had a job in Ireland and not that you need x amount in the bank and a job/accommodation lined up for when you return. I will have these, but not that they would met standard UK immigration requirements.

My situation is that I would meet the UK requirements in approximately 2.5 years, but only just, I would earn approximately £21,500. I can see UK immigration rules also getting stricter, not to mention the approximate £5,000 total costs involved increasing above this mark (this includes beginning to end, biometric testing, ILR, visas, etc.). So does anyone have any opinions on this route in the meantime as I am dearly missing being with my family and don’t want to blow things on this option if it all goes wrong it’s more time and money down the drain.

Many, many thanks to those that have taken the time to read this and take the time to make useful contributions to the discussion.

Edited August 8, 2015 by SS queries

[7by7]

As you are a UK national then can obviously use the EEA regulations to live in the RoI with your wife.

I'm not sure of the exact procedure the Irish adopt. The INIS website seems as difficult to find information on as the UKVI one!

But I suggest you start at EU Treaty Rights and Frequently Asked Questions about applying under for EU Treaty Rights

When applying to enter the UK under the EEA regulations using the Surinder Singh route then your wife will be subject to the same requirements as the non EEA national wife of, for example, a French national would be. This includes showing that she will be adequately supported and accommodated without becoming an unreasonable burden upon the state. There is no fixed minimum income requirement for this.

Have a read of EEA family permits: EUN02 and Apply for an EEA family permit from UKVI and you may find Surinder Singh immigration route helpful as well.

Once you've read those, please feel free to ask any specific questions you may have.

[beano2274]

also remember you can apply for a Residence Permit for the UK after your wife is there, am not sure about the time period, think it is 6 months, this also being the validity of the EEA Permit, costs 65 GBP per family member. And you would not have to meet the UK requirements then.

You have to ensure you get a Residence Card for your wife in ROI, this will be valid as per the validity of her Thai Passport.

This also assists in proving that family life has moved to ROI.

The user Donutz is the best person to ask about this, I am English live in Germany with my wife and if I get the opportunity to work in the UK would use the same route.

Edited August 9, 2015 by beano2274

[a99az]

I will make this simple.

You live and work in Southern Ireland (now the UK want you to be there for 6 months) with the family then you get family permit to the UK (free) as a Brit you need no money savings or a home you could in fact fall onto the state with no problems. They want to see that you had your centre of life in the EU before the move they don't want you to hold a UK bank account, house so don't show this if you have it.

They want to see that you had your centre of life in the EU before the move they don't want you to hold a UK bank account or house so don't show this if you have it.

It is easy so don't worry we did it.

[SS queries]

Thanks for the vote of confidence a99az and everyone else's help. Just a couple more things to clear up if I can...

I've yet to get my daughter a UK passport or register her birth from the UK authorities (which as I now understand it isn't necessary and with the added time won't speed up the overall process). Does anyone know as I have been British from birth with British parents/grandparents etc. should this whole process be quick? It appears some people have experienced waits of 6 months for their child's first passport abroad.

I'm currently in Thailand, but as I understand it we can do it from the UK embassy in Bangkok or the UK, but ultimately all applications now get processed in the UK so I was planning to do it from back home. A 6 month wait would ruin my chances of using the SS route and then returning to finish my degree next academic year, so are there ways beyond providing the required documents that will speed the process up? Would photos of us together help? Sounds ridiculous, but would a DNA test speed it up? Really couldn't afford to hang around for 6 months for a passport if I am to attempt this SS route...

I have daughter's and wife's certified translated birth certificates, my passport, should be able to get passport photos done here in next couple of days in which she doesn't need to be looking directly at camera as she's under one year. Countersignatary apparently has to have only known me for 2 years as she is a minor and has to be professional and live in the UK. I have someone in mind for this so is there anything else I've missed?

[SS queries]

Wow just went to pick up the certified translated copies in Hua Hin and was told that for a UK passport for my daughter I have to have a court order saying I'm responsible for the child as we aren't/weren't married when our daughter was born! This is news to me. Can anyone confirm this?

[SS queries]

Had some great news after talking to an immigration specialist. If anyone is in a similar position it might be helpful. So I wouldn't have to have the UK passport ready for my daughter in advance, I'd simply have to make two non-EU family member applications providing proof she's my daughter! I completely overlooked this whole aspect! So it looks like it could be done quite easily. Obviously he wants to sell his services and wouldn't give details if I had sufficient proof (along with what I already said I also have proof that I worked in Thailand for 18 months and photos of me and my girlfriend before and during pregnancy) and also with the three of us when the baby was 2 months and 10 months). So anyway he said he could do all the legwork for £2,000 beginning to end for the whole process which is a lot of money, but doesn't seem extortionate. Maybe best to leave it someone who won't overlook any aspect because if I have to appeal any aspect it can add a lot of time onto things.

[7by7]

If you were born in the UK or a qualifying British territory and at least one of your parents was British or legally resident in the UK or qualifying British territory at the time of your birth then you are British otherwise than by descent.

This means that your children will be British no matter where they are born and, provided they were/are born on or after 1st July 2006, whether or not you were married to their mother.

As long as you are named as the father on her birth certificate!

In your daughter's passport application you will need to provide your long form birth certificate to show that you are British otherwise than by descent.

BTW, as she was born outside the UK your daughter is British by descent; which means she cannot pass her British nationality onto her children unless they are born in the UK or a qualifying British territory.

Recent reports on this forum show that passport applications made in Thailand are being resolved within three weeks; but that is no guarantee, of course, of how long your daughter's will take.

I can see no reason why she could not use her Thai passport to enter the RoI with you under the EEA regulations; but technically she should use her British passport to enter the UK.

As applications under the EEA regulations to all countries, including the UK and RoI, are simple and free and by law must be resolved quickly, I see no reason to pay someone £2000 to do it for you. But that is your choice.

[SS queries]

If you were born in the UK or a qualifying British territory and at least one of your parents was British or legally resident in the UK or qualifying British territory at the time of your birth then you are British otherwise than by descent.

This means that your children will be British no matter where they are born and, provided they were/are born on or after 1st July 2006, whether or not you were married to their mother.

As long as you are named as the father on her birth certificate!

In your daughter's passport application you will need to provide your long form birth certificate to show that you are British otherwise than by descent.

BTW, as she was born outside the UK your daughter is British by descent; which means she cannot pass her British nationality onto her children unless they are born in the UK or a qualifying British territory.

Recent reports on this forum show that passport applications made in Thailand are being resolved within three weeks; but that is no guarantee, of course, of how long your daughter's will take.

I can see no reason why she could not use her Thai passport to enter the RoI with you under the EEA regulations; but technically she should use her British passport to enter the UK.

As applications under the EEA regulations to all countries, including the UK and RoI, are simple and free and by law must be resolved quickly, I see no reason to pay someone £2000 to do it for you. But that is your choice.

Thanks for the reply 7by7. That would be extortionate for just this visa and I've seen this and the residency application and they do look straightforward. But this is for the entre process until they are in the UK and any advice along the way. I'd probably be worrying I'd cock something up on the way otherwise and appeals are costly and time consuming.