Fidel Castro turns 89 - says US has hefty debt to Cuba

[Nobb]

He said Washington owes Cuba indemnifications "that rise to numerous millions of dollars" for damage caused by the embargo.

Which the US should pay.

As soon as Cuba pays back the $6 billion or so in real estate and businesses owned by Americans that Castro confiscated and or nationalized back in the late 50's.

Fidel has a big pair.

That confiscation was legitimate. In the USA the government regularly confiscates the proceeds of crime, and Cuba was one big corrupt puppet of US organized crime aka the Mob, aka the Mafia. Much of the property seized by the Cuban government was taken from entities which had exploited Cubans and acquired the property in a questionable manner. I see no reason why the Cuban government should compensate pimps, racketeers, mobsters, loan sharks, drug and booze smugglers etc. Oh sure, you will raise the issue that what about the factories. Ok. Cuba should give back these factories, once the former owners have paid for the industrial pollution they made. Americans don't want to accept the fact that the Americans who "owned" Cuban assets were for the most part crooks. Americans didn't object when the mobsters were running Cuba did they?

The embargo was unnecessary and has been petty vindictiveness for the last 20 years. In any case, the Europeans and Canada were delighted by the business opportunities created by the idiotic US foreign policy.

Idiotic policy when they have missiles on the island and ready to help Russia attack America. The mobster who ran Cuba was not Americas concern only Cuba concern because there government was getting a large kick back. of which America received just a little revenue. The Mafia does not pay a lot of taxes in America. You must have been living in Oz then my uneducated friend!

[nidieunimaitre]

I did 2 trips to Cuba with about 2 weeks each time. The way the people are treated is terrible. Exactly as Mike puts it. I spent about a week each time living with my friend in a small town east of Havana. With his family. The conditions were terrible.

I'd go down with a few friends and we'd do like you, Mike. Bring down a duffel bag of stuff. Boom boxes, CDs, clothes, old stuff, etc. They'd take anything...as they had nothing. They lived off ration cards. And almost no money to buy anything else. I bought an apple for my friend's sister. She was about 25 or so. She kept looking at it and finally we told her to just eat it! Come to find out, she'd never had an apple before. She had no idea how to eat it! Unreal.

We'd be walking down the street with them and all of a sudden, they'd disappear. Only to reappear a few minutes later down the street. Why? The police were nearby and would arrest them if caught with us "devil" foreigners.

We went to the big square in Havana one day. There was a line all the way around the square. Probably close to 1km long. My buddy and I couldn't figure it out, so had a seat and bought an ice cream. Come to find out, the line was for the ice cream shop! On certain days, you could get a cone for 5 cents or so. Only for locals. We paid $1. They were standing in line for a 5 cent cone for hours. Unreal.

We'd sponsor a dinner for our friend and his family. They only had one table, 4 chairs and 4 sets of plates/utensils. We sat down with the father and our friend. Eating this great food. But wondering why everybody else was just sitting nearby not eating? Come to find out, it's done on a rotation basis, with the elders eating first. When we were done, the next set of 4 sat at the table, used the same plates (with leftover food, if any) and kept eating. Then the next set of 4, and finally the last. The youngest. And some items were finished. They just got what was left. Broke my heart to witness this.

Any government that treats it's people like this doesn't deserve respect.

The attached pic is from round 2 of dinner.

The poverty that you describe is not inline with the statistics of World Bank, CIA and UN.

All 3 give a higher GDP / Income per capita for Cuba than for Thailand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Edited August 15, 2015 by nidieunimaitre

[craigt3365]

I can describe the same sort of experience here in Thailand. Eating on the floor with food caught in the jungle. There are some very poor people here.

But, they don't have the fear of being arrested because I was in their house. And have the ability here to travel anywhere they want, use the internet, have international banking, travel to other countries, date foreigners, get any job they want, drive where they want, live where they want, etc, etc, etc. All not possible in Cuba.

But yes, it's true, there are many countries with very poor populations. Many due to their wealthy leaders.

Edit: this is a better chart:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

[boomerangutang]

A big (but not the only) reason there was such profound and sustained anger by the US against Cuba was this:

Prior to Castro and his ragtag band taking over, Havana was largely US mafia controlled. All that changed overnight. Mafia dons aren't happy when their assets are commandeered with no compensation. There were also sex shows at the casinos involving local women and donkeys, but that's a side issue (no pun intended).

[spidermike007]

I heard that a hotel / residential booking was compulsory to be allowed into the country? And that living with the locals was not allowed?

Is that just anti communist propaganda?

No. You are kept separated from the locals as much as possible. They do not want you to influence them, nor poison their minds about the outside world. You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck. People are great, but subjecting yourself to the low quality of life there, and the suffering of the locals can be heartbreaking. The Castro brothers have done a fine job of destroying what used to be a great country.

[spidermike007]

I did 2 trips to Cuba with about 2 weeks each time. The way the people are treated is terrible. Exactly as Mike puts it. I spent about a week each time living with my friend in a small town east of Havana. With his family. The conditions were terrible.

I'd go down with a few friends and we'd do like you, Mike. Bring down a duffel bag of stuff. Boom boxes, CDs, clothes, old stuff, etc. They'd take anything...as they had nothing. They lived off ration cards. And almost no money to buy anything else. I bought an apple for my friend's sister. She was about 25 or so. She kept looking at it and finally we told her to just eat it! Come to find out, she'd never had an apple before. She had no idea how to eat it! Unreal.

We'd be walking down the street with them and all of a sudden, they'd disappear. Only to reappear a few minutes later down the street. Why? The police were nearby and would arrest them if caught with us "devil" foreigners.

We went to the big square in Havana one day. There was a line all the way around the square. Probably close to 1km long. My buddy and I couldn't figure it out, so had a seat and bought an ice cream. Come to find out, the line was for the ice cream shop! On certain days, you could get a cone for 5 cents or so. Only for locals. We paid $1. They were standing in line for a 5 cent cone for hours. Unreal.

We'd sponsor a dinner for our friend and his family. They only had one table, 4 chairs and 4 sets of plates/utensils. We sat down with the father and our friend. Eating this great food. But wondering why everybody else was just sitting nearby not eating? Come to find out, it's done on a rotation basis, with the elders eating first. When we were done, the next set of 4 sat at the table, used the same plates (with leftover food, if any) and kept eating. Then the next set of 4, and finally the last. The youngest. And some items were finished. They just got what was left. Broke my heart to witness this.

Any government that treats it's people like this doesn't deserve respect.

The attached pic is from round 2 of dinner.

The poverty that you describe is not inline with the statistics of World Bank, CIA and UN.

All 3 give a higher GDP / Income per capita for Cuba than for Thailand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Absolute rubbish. Only when they factor in the billion dollar plus, a year income that Fidel and Raul make. The people live lives of desperados. I met a civil engineer, who trained in Russia, and specialized in bridge construction. Really sharp guy. Multi lingual. Was making $50 a month working as an engineer, and I met him through a tour that he gave me of Havana. He made more money giving a few tours a week, than he made on his engineering salary. Cuba is a joke. Castro is a joke. He a laughingstock in Latin America, with the exception of Venezuela.

[spidermike007]

He said Washington owes Cuba indemnifications "that rise to numerous millions of dollars" for damage caused by the embargo.

Which the US should pay.

As soon as Cuba pays back the $6 billion or so in real estate and businesses owned by Americans that Castro confiscated and or nationalized back in the late 50's.

Fidel has a big pair.

That confiscation was legitimate. In the USA the government regularly confiscates the proceeds of crime, and Cuba was one big corrupt puppet of US organized crime aka the Mob, aka the Mafia. Much of the property seized by the Cuban government was taken from entities which had exploited Cubans and acquired the property in a questionable manner. I see no reason why the Cuban government should compensate pimps, racketeers, mobsters, loan sharks, drug and booze smugglers etc. Oh sure, you will raise the issue that what about the factories. Ok. Cuba should give back these factories, once the former owners have paid for the industrial pollution they made. Americans don't want to accept the fact that the Americans who "owned" Cuban assets were for the most part crooks. Americans didn't object when the mobsters were running Cuba did they?

The embargo was unnecessary and has been petty vindictiveness for the last 20 years. In any case, the Europeans and Canada were delighted by the business opportunities created by the idiotic US foreign policy.

You are not only completely lost, but your sources of information could not be more incorrect. Most of the assets seized, were from affluent, hard working, honest families. Their houses, their art collections, their bank accounts, and whatever else Fidel or Che wanted, was theirs for the keeping. They both became very wealthy men. Both were ideologies, who changed overnight, when they got the power. Fidel was way worse than Che. But Che was a murderous killer of men too. Sure, they seized a few casinos. Who cares about that. The mob lost some money. No sleep lost over that. But, they also took the assets of countless families, all in the name of the new republic. What a complete joke that new republic was. Lets lock up anyone who does not like us without a trial. Lets stop elections. Lets destroy the agriculture with Stalinist agrarian policies, which were as unscientific as they come. The vegetables and fruits in Cuba taste like cardboard, due to the soil being completely stripped of any value, and not being replenished through progressive policy. Lets deny the people a livelihood. Lets deny the right to worship as they please. Lets destroy the rich music industry. All great ideas, of this mastermind.

Cuba is hopelessly decrepit. The infrastructure will take a generation to rebuild. There is a giant sucking sound coming from King Castro. He could be a representative of Hoover Vacuum. He is a hooligan at best.

[derator01]

A few posts violating forum rules have been removed from view.

[impulse]

I think there are thousands of Cubans who lost everything who might argue with you about this. Not all were crooks and involved with the mafia.

My heart goes out the the Cuban people who got the short end of the Cold War stick.

But the issue under discussion is the balance of debt between Cuba and the USA (and US corporate interests), not what the Cuban government owes to its own people.

If you leave out the crimes against their own people (hard to do, I realize), I agree completely with GeriatricKid. The confiscation of the fruits of corruption was legitimate. US corporate and Mafia entities had turned Cuba into a brothel and a money factory- and not for the benefit of the Cuban people- but rather to the benefit of Batista and his cronies.

[Exsexyman]

He said Washington owes Cuba indemnifications "that rise to numerous millions of dollars" for damage caused by the embargo.

Which the US should pay.

As soon as Cuba pays back the $6 billion or so in real estate and businesses owned by Americans that Castro confiscated and or nationalized back in the late 50's.

Fidel has a big pair.

That confiscation was legitimate. In the USA the government regularly confiscates the proceeds of crime, and Cuba was one big corrupt puppet of US organized crime aka the Mob, aka the Mafia. Much of the property seized by the Cuban government was taken from entities which had exploited Cubans and acquired the property in a questionable manner. I see no reason why the Cuban government should compensate pimps, racketeers, mobsters, loan sharks, drug and booze smugglers etc. Oh sure, you will raise the issue that what about the factories. Ok. Cuba should give back these factories, once the former owners have paid for the industrial pollution they made. Americans don't want to accept the fact that the Americans who "owned" Cuban assets were for the most part crooks. Americans didn't object when the mobsters were running Cuba did they?

The embargo was unnecessary and has been petty vindictiveness for the last 20 years. In any case, the Europeans and Canada were delighted by the business opportunities created by the idiotic US foreign policy.

You are not only completely lost, but your sources of information could not be more incorrect. Most of the assets seized, were from affluent, hard working, honest families. Their houses, their art collections, their bank accounts, and whatever else Fidel or Che wanted, was theirs for the keeping. They both became very wealthy men. Both were ideologies, who changed overnight, when they got the power. Fidel was way worse than Che. But Che was a murderous killer of men too. Sure, they seized a few casinos. Who cares about that. The mob lost some money. No sleep lost over that. But, they also took the assets of countless families, all in the name of the new republic. What a complete joke that new republic was. Lets lock up anyone who does not like us without a trial. Lets stop elections. Lets destroy the agriculture with Stalinist agrarian policies, which were as unscientific as they come. The vegetables and fruits in Cuba taste like cardboard, due to the soil being completely stripped of any value, and not being replenished through progressive policy. Lets deny the people a livelihood. Lets deny the right to worship as they please. Lets destroy the rich music industry. All great ideas, of this mastermind.

Cuba is hopelessly decrepit. The infrastructure will take a generation to rebuild. There is a giant sucking sound coming from King Castro. He could be a representative of Hoover Vacuum. He is a hooligan at best.

You are the one who is lost. You refuse to accept the facts. Before 1959 the life expectancy for Cubans was just 58 years Now it is 78 years. At the end of 2008 infant mortality in Cuba was 47 deaths per 1,000 live births, the lowest in the Western hemisphere. Infant mortality in the US is 7 deaths per 1,000 births. This despite the sanctions imposed by America. According to the World Health Organization Cuba has 5.91 physicians per 1,000 people, TWICE as many per capita as the USA..Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country in the world. In 1959, when the American mafia controlled Cuba there were only 6,300 doctors, most of whom left for the USA. Today Cuba has 70,000 doctors. It's all about priorities. Before 1959 Cuba had an illiteracy rate of 23%, After 1959 a mass literacy campaign eliminated illiteracy in one year. Cuba now has more teachers per capita than any other country in the world. Before 1959 when the US mafia ran Cuba homosexuality was illegal, in 1979 Castro's Cuba decriminalised homosexual acts in private between consenting adults. Fidel Castro's interview in 1992 makes for interesting reading, 25 years ago. It would be interesting to see Jingthing's take on that! This has all been achieved despite the spiteful sanctions by the USA over the past 50 years which quite frankly is nothing short of shameful. OK, maybe the average Cuban on the street does not have the 'freedom' to buy a new BMW every year, but when it comes to the basic 'freedoms', the right to an education, the right not to die due to basic health care etc etc, that surely is a small price to pay.

http://directaction.org.au/issue8/cuban_revolution_50_years_of_accomplishments

That should of course read 4.7 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Exsexyman

[spidermike007]

He said Washington owes Cuba indemnifications "that rise to numerous millions of dollars" for damage caused by the embargo.

Which the US should pay.

As soon as Cuba pays back the $6 billion or so in real estate and businesses owned by Americans that Castro confiscated and or nationalized back in the late 50's.

Fidel has a big pair.

That confiscation was legitimate. In the USA the government regularly confiscates the proceeds of crime, and Cuba was one big corrupt puppet of US organized crime aka the Mob, aka the Mafia. Much of the property seized by the Cuban government was taken from entities which had exploited Cubans and acquired the property in a questionable manner. I see no reason why the Cuban government should compensate pimps, racketeers, mobsters, loan sharks, drug and booze smugglers etc. Oh sure, you will raise the issue that what about the factories. Ok. Cuba should give back these factories, once the former owners have paid for the industrial pollution they made. Americans don't want to accept the fact that the Americans who "owned" Cuban assets were for the most part crooks. Americans didn't object when the mobsters were running Cuba did they?

The embargo was unnecessary and has been petty vindictiveness for the last 20 years. In any case, the Europeans and Canada were delighted by the business opportunities created by the idiotic US foreign policy.

You are not only completely lost, but your sources of information could not be more incorrect. Most of the assets seized, were from affluent, hard working, honest families. Their houses, their art collections, their bank accounts, and whatever else Fidel or Che wanted, was theirs for the keeping. They both became very wealthy men. Both were ideologies, who changed overnight, when they got the power. Fidel was way worse than Che. But Che was a murderous killer of men too. Sure, they seized a few casinos. Who cares about that. The mob lost some money. No sleep lost over that. But, they also took the assets of countless families, all in the name of the new republic. What a complete joke that new republic was. Lets lock up anyone who does not like us without a trial. Lets stop elections. Lets destroy the agriculture with Stalinist agrarian policies, which were as unscientific as they come. The vegetables and fruits in Cuba taste like cardboard, due to the soil being completely stripped of any value, and not being replenished through progressive policy. Lets deny the people a livelihood. Lets deny the right to worship as they please. Lets destroy the rich music industry. All great ideas, of this mastermind.

Cuba is hopelessly decrepit. The infrastructure will take a generation to rebuild. There is a giant sucking sound coming from King Castro. He could be a representative of Hoover Vacuum. He is a hooligan at best.

You are the one who is lost. You refuse to accept the facts. Before 1959 the life expectancy for Cubans was just 58 years Now it is 78 years. At the end of 2008 infant mortality in Cuba was 47 deaths per 1,000 live births, the lowest in the Western hemisphere. Infant mortality in the US is 7 deaths per 1,000 births. This despite the sanctions imposed by America. According to the World Health Organization Cuba has 5.91 physicians per 1,000 people, TWICE as many per capita as the USA..Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country in the world. In 1959, when the American mafia controlled Cuba there were only 6,300 doctors, most of whom left for the USA. Today Cuba has 70,000 doctors. It's all about priorities. Before 1959 Cuba had an illiteracy rate of 23%, After 1959 a mass literacy campaign eliminated illiteracy in one year. Cuba now has more teachers per capita than any other country in the world. Before 1959 when the US mafia ran Cuba homosexuality was illegal, in 1979 Castro's Cuba decriminalised homosexual acts in private between consenting adults. Fidel Castro's interview in 1992 makes for interesting reading, 25 years ago. It would be interesting to see Jingthing's take on that! This has all been achieved despite the spiteful sanctions by the USA over the past 50 years which quite frankly is nothing short of shameful. OK, maybe the average Cuban on the street does not have the 'freedom' to buy a new BMW every year, but when it comes to the basic 'freedoms', the right to an education, the right not to die due to basic health care etc etc, that surely is a small price to pay.

http://directaction.org.au/issue8/cuban_revolution_50_years_of_accomplishments

That should of course read 4.7 deaths per 1,000 live births.

And despite those rather questionable statistics, the one thing most Cuban who you speak with there will agree on, is they have an extremely low quality of life. What good are all of those doctors when they are nearly all exported? And the few that remain do not have any supplies?

[craigt3365]

I think there are thousands of Cubans who lost everything who might argue with you about this. Not all were crooks and involved with the mafia.

My heart goes out the the Cuban people who got the short end of the Cold War stick.

But the issue under discussion is the balance of debt between Cuba and the USA (and US corporate interests), not what the Cuban government owes to its own people.

If you leave out the crimes against their own people (hard to do, I realize), I agree completely with GeriatricKid. The confiscation of the fruits of corruption was legitimate. US corporate and Mafia entities had turned Cuba into a brothel and a money factory- and not for the benefit of the Cuban people- but rather to the benefit of Batista and his cronies.

Understood, but without due process of the law, how do we know all the businesses were mafia controlled? It was a land grab and they confiscated property from whomever they desired. For better or worse!

[boomerangutang]

I think you're both right; exsexyman and spidermike007. Cuba has a history of corrupt leaders (not unlike Thailand, in that way) regardless of what group of selfish money-grabbing men are in charge. However, Cubans make the most of being very poor: Their situation with doctors and education is commendable. Let's hope, when Cuba unloads the yoke of Castroism, that they'll get around to electing some decent men and women to oversee things. If they're non-corrupt, that will be a big step towards improvements. Being isolated hasn't been all bad for Cubans. They haven't been innundated by fast food outlets and big box super markets like nearly every other country.

Indeed (if I may switch tracks here), that's one reason I like Burma more that Thailand. Thailand is trying so hard to be like Los Angeles, with franchises popping up like mushrooms, yet Burma is still pleasant with many small shops. Another advantage of that, is people of all ages actually mill around at dusk and speak with one another. It's neighborliness. You see that in Cuba and in Burma, but you don't see much of that in Thailand or the US or Europe - where people (when not at work) are either crammed in to malls (mostly for vanity shopping) or staring at a screen - computer or TV or hand-held device.

Cuba is at a crossroads now, with choosing whether to allow big box stores and franchises to get established. If they bow to pressure to do so, it will propel them down an ugly path - and they'll be fatter, dumber, and less socially-interacting. ....more like Floridians.

[impulse]

I think there are thousands of Cubans who lost everything who might argue with you about this. Not all were crooks and involved with the mafia.

My heart goes out the the Cuban people who got the short end of the Cold War stick.

But the issue under discussion is the balance of debt between Cuba and the USA (and US corporate interests), not what the Cuban government owes to its own people.

If you leave out the crimes against their own people (hard to do, I realize), I agree completely with GeriatricKid. The confiscation of the fruits of corruption was legitimate. US corporate and Mafia entities had turned Cuba into a brothel and a money factory- and not for the benefit of the Cuban people- but rather to the benefit of Batista and his cronies.

Understood, but without due process of the law, how do we know all the businesses were mafia controlled? It was a land grab and they confiscated property from whomever they desired. For better or worse!

Same way we know the guys we just "droned" (or invaded) were terrorists.

Edit: And to add some historical context, the same way McCarthy knew all those Hollywood types were communist subversives when he had them blacklisted and denied a way to make a living.

The government said so, we have no recourse, and they have the guns and the power.

Amazing how similar it is regardless of what kind of government is in place... "Due process" is whatever they say it is...

Edited August 16, 2015 by impulse

[hard124get]

Happy birthday Fidel,

Despite illegal invasion, many assassination attempts, and blockades you have emerged victorious and are a beacon to freedom and resisting superpower oppression throughout the world.

[kamarada]

He said Washington owes Cuba indemnifications "that rise to numerous millions of dollars" for damage caused by the embargo.

Which the US should pay.

As soon as Cuba pays back the $6 billion or so in real estate and businesses owned by Americans that Castro confiscated and or nationalized back in the late 50's.

Fidel has a big pair.

That confiscation was legitimate. In the USA the government regularly confiscates the proceeds of crime, and Cuba was one big corrupt puppet of US organized crime aka the Mob, aka the Mafia. Much of the property seized by the Cuban government was taken from entities which had exploited Cubans and acquired the property in a questionable manner. I see no reason why the Cuban government should compensate pimps, racketeers, mobsters, loan sharks, drug and booze smugglers etc. Oh sure, you will raise the issue that what about the factories. Ok. Cuba should give back these factories, once the former owners have paid for the industrial pollution they made. Americans don't want to accept the fact that the Americans who "owned" Cuban assets were for the most part crooks. Americans didn't object when the mobsters were running Cuba did they?

The embargo was unnecessary and has been petty vindictiveness for the last 20 years. In any case, the Europeans and Canada were delighted by the business opportunities created by the idiotic US foreign policy.

You are not only completely lost, but your sources of information could not be more incorrect. Most of the assets seized, were from affluent, hard working, honest families. Their houses, their art collections, their bank accounts, and whatever else Fidel or Che wanted, was theirs for the keeping. They both became very wealthy men. Both were ideologies, who changed overnight, when they got the power. Fidel was way worse than Che. But Che was a murderous killer of men too. Sure, they seized a few casinos. Who cares about that. The mob lost some money. No sleep lost over that. But, they also took the assets of countless families, all in the name of the new republic. What a complete joke that new republic was. Lets lock up anyone who does not like us without a trial. Lets stop elections. Lets destroy the agriculture with Stalinist agrarian policies, which were as unscientific as they come. The vegetables and fruits in Cuba taste like cardboard, due to the soil being completely stripped of any value, and not being replenished through progressive policy. Lets deny the people a livelihood. Lets deny the right to worship as they please. Lets destroy the rich music industry. All great ideas, of this mastermind.

Cuba is hopelessly decrepit. The infrastructure will take a generation to rebuild. There is a giant sucking sound coming from King Castro. He could be a representative of Hoover Vacuum. He is a hooligan at best.

You are the one who is lost. You refuse to accept the facts. Before 1959 the life expectancy for Cubans was just 58 years Now it is 78 years. At the end of 2008 infant mortality in Cuba was 47 deaths per 1,000 live births, the lowest in the Western hemisphere. Infant mortality in the US is 7 deaths per 1,000 births. This despite the sanctions imposed by America. According to the World Health Organization Cuba has 5.91 physicians per 1,000 people, TWICE as many per capita as the USA..Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country in the world. In 1959, when the American mafia controlled Cuba there were only 6,300 doctors, most of whom left for the USA. Today Cuba has 70,000 doctors. It's all about priorities. Before 1959 Cuba had an illiteracy rate of 23%, After 1959 a mass literacy campaign eliminated illiteracy in one year. Cuba now has more teachers per capita than any other country in the world. Before 1959 when the US mafia ran Cuba homosexuality was illegal, in 1979 Castro's Cuba decriminalised homosexual acts in private between consenting adults. Fidel Castro's interview in 1992 makes for interesting reading, 25 years ago. It would be interesting to see Jingthing's take on that! This has all been achieved despite the spiteful sanctions by the USA over the past 50 years which quite frankly is nothing short of shameful. OK, maybe the average Cuban on the street does not have the 'freedom' to buy a new BMW every year, but when it comes to the basic 'freedoms', the right to an education, the right not to die due to basic health care etc etc, that surely is a small price to pay.

http://directaction.org.au/issue8/cuban_revolution_50_years_of_accomplishments

That should of course read 4.7 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Ok. Jamaica life expectancy in 1960 was 66, now 76. In Guatemala was 47, now 75. With the same success you can tell that they didn't have mobiles in 1958, and now, thanks to the revolution, many people have. On the other hand, this figures are provided always by the government itself, and are totally unreliable. I think you are too much into Castro's propaganda. And yes, people in Cuba are miserable and live in a really decrepit State, except for the few "mafiosi" in power.

[Goranxxl]

Long live Presidente and happy birthday.So sad that your bigest friend Ernesto Che Gevara is not live to have birthday party with you and to see how Cuba is great, beautifull and free country

[nidieunimaitre]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

Edited August 16, 2015 by nidieunimaitre

[Goranxxl]

I saw tham walk around without bra ☺ just t shirt

[spidermike007]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

You cannot even begin to imagine the play I got from those bras and panties. I appealed to all of my gal friends. Many are very successful and own 100 or more expensive bras. They would really give up the goods. I had bras that were probably $100 French lace bras. Gorgeous. These gals had never seen anything like that in their lives. Mind you, they do not even have boutiques that sell bras like these in Cuba, that is how run down and decrepit the place is. Oh my oh my. This reaction was amazing. Often times, an instant fashion show. The place was a disgrace, but the women were very special.

You had to have private apartment to bring a gal back to your room. Which is how I rolled back then. You could hook up an apartment by the week, in nice areas like Miramar. I had some very good times there but that was despite the obnoxious police, the ridiculous government and the sad, desperate state of affairs. Castro was one of the few hair brained people in the world, who was clinging to communist dogma. How silly, how trite, how ignorant. Talk about a broken economic system.

[nidieunimaitre]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

You cannot even begin to imagine the play I got from those bras and panties. I appealed to all of my gal friends. Many are very successful and own 100 or more expensive bras. They would really give up the goods. I had bras that were probably $100 French lace bras. Gorgeous. These gals had never seen anything like that in their lives. Mind you, they do not even have boutiques that sell bras like these in Cuba, that is how run down and decrepit the place is. Oh my oh my. This reaction was amazing. Often times, an instant fashion show. The place was a disgrace, but the women were very special.

You had to have private apartment to bring a gal back to your room. Which is how I rolled back then. You could hook up an apartment by the week, in nice areas like Miramar. I had some very good times there but that was despite the obnoxious police, the ridiculous government and the sad, desperate state of affairs. Castro was one of the few hair brained people in the world, who was clinging to communist dogma. How silly, how trite, how ignorant. Talk about a broken economic system.

I am not 100% sure that you are joking.

[spidermike007]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

You cannot even begin to imagine the play I got from those bras and panties. I appealed to all of my gal friends. Many are very successful and own 100 or more expensive bras. They would really give up the goods. I had bras that were probably $100 French lace bras. Gorgeous. These gals had never seen anything like that in their lives. Mind you, they do not even have boutiques that sell bras like these in Cuba, that is how run down and decrepit the place is. Oh my oh my. This reaction was amazing. Often times, an instant fashion show. The place was a disgrace, but the women were very special.

You had to have private apartment to bring a gal back to your room. Which is how I rolled back then. You could hook up an apartment by the week, in nice areas like Miramar. I had some very good times there but that was despite the obnoxious police, the ridiculous government and the sad, desperate state of affairs. Castro was one of the few hair brained people in the world, who was clinging to communist dogma. How silly, how trite, how ignorant. Talk about a broken economic system.

I am not 100% sure that you are joking.

No joking. 100% serious. That was the crazy reality. I once exchanged a rather old Walkman for a roll in the hay with a super model type. That was how desperate the locals were. A Walkman was a really big deal. Edited August 16, 2015 by spidermike007

[nidieunimaitre]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

You cannot even begin to imagine the play I got from those bras and panties. I appealed to all of my gal friends. Many are very successful and own 100 or more expensive bras. They would really give up the goods. I had bras that were probably $100 French lace bras. Gorgeous. These gals had never seen anything like that in their lives. Mind you, they do not even have boutiques that sell bras like these in Cuba, that is how run down and decrepit the place is. Oh my oh my. This reaction was amazing. Often times, an instant fashion show. The place was a disgrace, but the women were very special.

You had to have private apartment to bring a gal back to your room. Which is how I rolled back then. You could hook up an apartment by the week, in nice areas like Miramar. I had some very good times there but that was despite the obnoxious police, the ridiculous government and the sad, desperate state of affairs. Castro was one of the few hair brained people in the world, who was clinging to communist dogma. How silly, how trite, how ignorant. Talk about a broken economic system.

I am not 100% sure that you are joking.

No joking. 100% serious. That was the crazy reality. I once exchanged a rather old Walkman for a roll in the hay with a super model type. That was how desperate the locals were. A Walkman was a really big deal.

OK I surrender.

Clearly YOU are an expert on Cuba.

[craigt3365]

Spot on Mike. I first went to Cuba after my divorce. My buddies said I needed an "attitude" adjustment. Well, it worked! Going from American women, who didn't really care for me, to Cuban women, who'd whistle at you on the streets, was a great change for the ol' fragile male ego. But it did break my heart to see how they lived. And how tightly they were controlled by the police. And how much they despised the police. Pure hatred. And for good reasons.

I wish them the best of luck. Unfortunately, even if the US ends the embargo, they could still end up like Haiti or the DR. Both have good relations with the US and are in an absolute mess. It's all about the government.

[spidermike007]

2 QUOTES FROM SPIDERMARK007

You cannot under any circumstances bring a woman back to your hotel. The island really does suck

I used to bring duffel bags full of bras and panties. The women there could not spend a months salary on a bra. They were wearing 10 year old tattered bras and panties. It was pathetic. They were very grateful!



WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE

You cannot even begin to imagine the play I got from those bras and panties. I appealed to all of my gal friends. Many are very successful and own 100 or more expensive bras. They would really give up the goods. I had bras that were probably $100 French lace bras. Gorgeous. These gals had never seen anything like that in their lives. Mind you, they do not even have boutiques that sell bras like these in Cuba, that is how run down and decrepit the place is. Oh my oh my. This reaction was amazing. Often times, an instant fashion show. The place was a disgrace, but the women were very special.

You had to have private apartment to bring a gal back to your room. Which is how I rolled back then. You could hook up an apartment by the week, in nice areas like Miramar. I had some very good times there but that was despite the obnoxious police, the ridiculous government and the sad, desperate state of affairs. Castro was one of the few hair brained people in the world, who was clinging to communist dogma. How silly, how trite, how ignorant. Talk about a broken economic system.

I am not 100% sure that you are joking.

No joking. 100% serious. That was the crazy reality. I once exchanged a rather old Walkman for a roll in the hay with a super model type. That was how desperate the locals were. A Walkman was a really big deal.

OK I surrender.
Clearly YOU are an expert on Cuba.

Not sure about expert. But, I have been there many times, and have long term relationships with many Cubans, both exiles, and currently living in Cuba. So, I do know a bit about the place, first hand.