Pheu Thai strongly opposes draft charter

[Baerboxer]

If you tell them the sky is blue, they will not agree. You tell them that oranges are orange, they will not agree. Why waste time with these yahoos?

Yep, you're right. I really shouldn't waste my time answering posts by djjamie et al but can't resist when their drivel becomes too outlandish.

Do give over. So you do what, replace it with your own drivel.

PTP are not, and never will be interested in democracy. And neither are the ironically named Dems.

In this topic PTP are not interested in anything that prevents them getting control of the trough again.

[wabothai]

How can a police general be a (part) leader of a political party?

[Srikcir]

For those PTP critics, do remember the Democrats have also expressed "strong" objections to portions of the draft.

Maybe that's part of Suthep's new mission for the Junta - unify the Democrats to back the draft charter to help the Junta promote public acceptance if a referendum is held.

[MZurf]

If you tell them the sky is blue, they will not agree. You tell them that oranges are orange, they will not agree. Why waste time with these yahoos?

Yep, you're right. I really shouldn't waste my time answering posts by djjamie et al but can't resist when their drivel becomes too outlandish.

Do give over. So you do what, replace it with your own drivel.

PTP are not, and never will be interested in democracy. And neither are the ironically named Dems.

In this topic PTP are not interested in anything that prevents them getting control of the trough again.

I never have, and I never will, defend the PTP. The governments of the last 10 years have been anything but competent and moral - quite the opposite. But what I will defend is the right of the Thai people to elect whoever the hell they want. If that is PTP then so be it.

[Baerboxer]

If you tell them the sky is blue, they will not agree. You tell them that oranges are orange, they will not agree. Why waste time with these yahoos?

Yep, you're right. I really shouldn't waste my time answering posts by djjamie et al but can't resist when their drivel becomes too outlandish.

Do give over. So you do what, replace it with your own drivel.

PTP are not, and never will be interested in democracy. And neither are the ironically named Dems.

In this topic PTP are not interested in anything that prevents them getting control of the trough again.

I never have, and I never will, defend the PTP. The governments of the last 10 years have been anything but competent and moral - quite the opposite. But what I will defend is the right of the Thai people to elect whoever the hell they want. If that is PTP then so be it.

I agree - they can elect who they want. And whoever they elect must act in accordance with the law or face the consequences.

The real issue here is the tier who really control this country. Sure, there are rival factions who scrap for control of the spoils. But all kept within the tier. And these are the wealthy elites to who accumulate vast wealth and are above the law. Underneath them is a hierarchy of lackeys who do very nicely when their bosses are in power.

I will defend the right of the Thai people to elect whoever they want. And I will defend the force of law to remove criminals from government.

[englishoak]

Yep, you're right. I really shouldn't waste my time answering posts by djjamie et al but can't resist when their drivel becomes too outlandish.

Do give over. So you do what, replace it with your own drivel.

PTP are not, and never will be interested in democracy. And neither are the ironically named Dems.

In this topic PTP are not interested in anything that prevents them getting control of the trough again.

I never have, and I never will, defend the PTP. The governments of the last 10 years have been anything but competent and moral - quite the opposite. But what I will defend is the right of the Thai people to elect whoever the hell they want. If that is PTP then so be it.

I agree - they can elect who they want. And whoever they elect must act in accordance with the law or face the consequences.

The real issue here is the tier who really control this country. Sure, there are rival factions who scrap for control of the spoils. But all kept within the tier. And these are the wealthy elites to who accumulate vast wealth and are above the law. Underneath them is a hierarchy of lackeys who do very nicely when their bosses are in power.

I will defend the right of the Thai people to elect whoever they want. And I will defend the force of law to remove criminals from government.

Only problem with that part is they break the law and trash the constitution every time to remove them.Theres nothing legal about a coup m8.

What your saying is you happily support breaking laws as long as it suits your opinion..

Ergo you arnt interested in laws being broken perse at all, its whos breaking them seems to matter to you more... it shouldnt if you meant what you wrote but of course you wernt being sincere, just selective as usual. .

Edited August 15, 2015 by englishoak

[candide]

As there are no arguments for defending this charter, it seems to be easier to criticize people who talk against it.

[espinoza]

It also says that a certain part of the parliament shall be appointed people. Who appoints them? This try will be nilled, for sure. No social justice!!!! What do they try to do????

[smedly]

that does not surprise me at all, their days of thieving from the Thai people is coming to an end one way or another

Yes, it's now back to the "old" snouts in the trough - and that's much better of course .

name them and I might give some credit to your claims otherwise you would be better saying absolutely nothing

on the otherhand it is well documented who has been thieving in this very sorry so called democracy which time and time again as been shown to be corrupt to the core, they are slowly being routed out and I hope they all end up in prison and their spoils end up back with the Thai people going towards health and education - land of thieves but someone is calling you in and may it continue....wash rinse spin WRS repeat until clean

[Lite Beer]

Pheu Thai comes down on charter
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE Pheu Thai Party has strongly criticised the draft constitution, saying it contains provisions that would bode ill for the future of democracy and the economy.

In a statement released yesterday, Pheu Thai said the new charter did not respect the sovereign power of the people and sought to ensure the coup-makers' continuation in power through a largely unelected Senate and a provision for "outsider" prime minister.

The statement, signed by Pol Lt-General Viroj Paoin, the caretaker Pheu Thai leader, was addressed to Borwornsak Uwanno , chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee.

In the statement, Pheu Thai said that although the CDC had amended some articles as requested by various parties, including the Pheu Thai Party, key provisions retained in the draft charter would ensure that there could not be a national reconciliation and Thai democracy would become backward.

The party said the latest version of the draft charter still allowed an unelected person to become prime minister while 123 out of 200 members of the Senate - which would have wide-ranging powers including the power to appoint and impeach people in many important positions and approve legislature - were selected.

The party added that the appointed Senate members would be chosen by the current Cabinet of Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha and would have three-year terms, thus ensuring that the current regime would continue its hold on power through the Senate's control of the next government.

It also ensured that the current regime would play a pivotal role in appointing the so-called committee for strategic reform and reconciliation under the new draft charter.

"It can be seen that organs that have no links to the people are being used to control a government elected by the people," Pheu Thai said.

The party added that the draft charter ensured that citizens would be deprived of their fundamental political rights and opportunities and that future governments would be weak, not only affecting democracy but also leading to a poor economy.

The party called on the CDC to ensure that the charter did not allow unelected groups to inherit the powers of the coup-makers.

It also said that no particular political party should be unfairly punished under the new charter, adding the idea of retroactively punishing those found to have violated electoral laws was not acceptable.

The party urged the CDC to trust the will and judgement of the people, instead of effectively having unelected bodies such as most of the Senate acting as a superboard, wielding wide-ranging, unchecked powers over elected representatives of the people.

Thailand, it added, had gone through many constitutions over the past two decades and most of them expressed a wish to have the prime minister chosen from a pool of elected representatives.

In a related development, CDC spokesman Kamnoon Sidhisamarn said the CDC would make its final consideration on the transitional provisions of the draft charter tomorrow.

The transitional provisions - Articles 273 to 285 - are important, as they would be effective for a period of up to five years, said Kamnoon.

The CDC will be hearing the opinions of the Cabinet and the National Reform Council on the charter on Wednesday and Thursday instead of tomorrow until Wednesday as earlier scheduled.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-comes-down-on-charter-30266663.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-16

[aussieinthailand]

that does not surprise me at all, their days of thieving from the Thai people is coming to an end one way or another

So you like the idea of the proposed constitution having provision for military rule and that Thai people are no longer a sovereign nation?

Thailand , = land of the free,,,,,,,,,,, NOT!!! so they'll have to think of a new name for the country.

This wouldn't fly in your home country would it?

[dukebowling]

A nondemocratic constitution.

Does anyone else notice the similarity between General Prayuth and Kim Jong-un?

Thailand…the new North Korea...

[tbthailand]

"It can be seen that organs that have no links to the people are being used to control a government elected by the people," Pheu Thai said.

maybe some of the junta supporters are right, ... in a way...

This coup will be different.

No more democracy. Period. Full stop.

Sure we'll have elections.

Sure you'll still be able to moan about corrupt politicians.

We - your masters - wouldn't have it any other way....

Roll the turd, roll the turd, ... This constitution is gonna be tasty

[LannaGuy]

His avatar suits his writing style !

and yours suits your political analysis

[halloween]

"It can be seen that organs that have no links to the people are being used to control a government elected by the people," Pheu Thai said.

maybe some of the junta supporters are right, ... in a way...

This coup will be different.

No more democracy. Period. Full stop.

Sure we'll have elections.

Sure you'll still be able to moan about corrupt politicians.

We - your masters - wouldn't have it any other way....

Roll the turd, roll the turd, ... This constitution is gonna be tasty

The last attempt at democracy was a farce. The question is not whether the next attempt will be worse, but could it possibly be worse.

Edited August 16, 2015 by halloween

[LannaGuy]

so we have the usual drivel from djjamie and his merry band of right wing non-thinkers

opposing this right wing charter is NOT about supporting Thaksin, PT, the Yeti or the Tooth Fairy it's about opposing the elite from removing democracy and enslaving the people to the elite yoke

I have no doubt the charter will be passed and why? because NO opposition will be tolerated, NO campaigning against it, NO alternative on the ballot form and... most importantly, it will be Hobson's Choice - vote for it OR the Army Junta stay in power

Thais will vote for it because the vast majority don't want a Military Junta and they see no other way out. It's a crying shame for Thailand and an absolute manipulation which will be heralded as a 'Victory' by Suthep, Prayuth and all the elite dinosaurs and, of course, by some deluded TVF posters (you know who you are).

[halloween]

so we have the usual drivel from djjamie and his merry band of right wing non-thinkers

opposing this right wing charter is NOT about supporting Thaksin, PT, the Yeti or the Tooth Fairy it's about opposing the elite from removing democracy and enslaving the people to the elite yoke

I have no doubt the charter will be passed and why? because NO opposition will be tolerated, NO campaigning against it, NO alternative on the ballot form and... most importantly, it will be Hobson's Choice - vote for it OR the Army Junta stay in power

Thais will vote for it because the vast majority don't want a Military Junta and they see no other way out. It's a crying shame for Thailand and an absolute manipulation which will be heralded as a 'Victory' by Suthep, Prayuth and all the elite dinosaurs and, of course, by some deluded TVF posters (you know who you are).

So where is your evidence of a "vast majority" who don't want a military junta?

[mikemac]

For those PTP critics, do remember the Democrats have also expressed "strong" objections to portions of the draft.

Maybe that's part of Suthep's new mission for the Junta - unify the Democrats to back the draft charter to help the Junta promote public acceptance if a referendum is held.

I wish guys like you and Murf would keep up, the vast majority of the "PTP critics" do not support the the Democrats or the Military.

It's getting boring now, you lot arguing with yourselves, thinking you are having it out with this imaginary hoard of rabid Democrat fans and "Junta fans".

I have made many comments that condemn the actions of the Military and the current Junta, yet I am still labeled a "Junta fan-boy".

You must have a poor comprehension of the English language, or you just won't admit your so-called opponents agree with you in part when it comes to the Dems and the Junta.

Either that or you are just fishing, and if that is the case carry on and good luck.

[LannaGuy]

so we have the usual drivel from djjamie and his merry band of right wing non-thinkers

opposing this right wing charter is NOT about supporting Thaksin, PT, the Yeti or the Tooth Fairy it's about opposing the elite from removing democracy and enslaving the people to the elite yoke

I have no doubt the charter will be passed and why? because NO opposition will be tolerated, NO campaigning against it, NO alternative on the ballot form and... most importantly, it will be Hobson's Choice - vote for it OR the Army Junta stay in power

Thais will vote for it because the vast majority don't want a Military Junta and they see no other way out. It's a crying shame for Thailand and an absolute manipulation which will be heralded as a 'Victory' by Suthep, Prayuth and all the elite dinosaurs and, of course, by some deluded TVF posters (you know who you are).

So where is your evidence of a "vast majority" who don't want a military junta?

well an election would show that wouldn't it? and the charter vote will show that won't it?

IF the Thais WANT a military junta then the best way to have one is VOTE NO because then they will stay

[mikemac]

A nondemocratic constitution.

Does anyone else notice the similarity between General Prayuth and Kim Jong-un?

Thailand…the new North Korea...

Another one ! This is even better than - "I am not a Shin supporter but............................."

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving North Korea approaches."

(my version of Godwin's Law)

[halloween]

so we have the usual drivel from djjamie and his merry band of right wing non-thinkers

opposing this right wing charter is NOT about supporting Thaksin, PT, the Yeti or the Tooth Fairy it's about opposing the elite from removing democracy and enslaving the people to the elite yoke

I have no doubt the charter will be passed and why? because NO opposition will be tolerated, NO campaigning against it, NO alternative on the ballot form and... most importantly, it will be Hobson's Choice - vote for it OR the Army Junta stay in power

Thais will vote for it because the vast majority don't want a Military Junta and they see no other way out. It's a crying shame for Thailand and an absolute manipulation which will be heralded as a 'Victory' by Suthep, Prayuth and all the elite dinosaurs and, of course, by some deluded TVF posters (you know who you are).

So where is your evidence of a "vast majority" who don't want a military junta?

well an election would show that wouldn't it? and the charter vote will show that won't it?

IF the Thais WANT a military junta then the best way to have one is VOTE NO because then they will stay

Actually neither will. The junta won't be on the ballot, and acceptance of the charter doesn't indicate opposition to the junta government.

When I raise the subject, the result is almost universal indifference, which leads me to believe your "vast majority" is fantasy.

[LannaGuy]

so we have the usual drivel from djjamie and his merry band of right wing non-thinkers

opposing this right wing charter is NOT about supporting Thaksin, PT, the Yeti or the Tooth Fairy it's about opposing the elite from removing democracy and enslaving the people to the elite yoke

I have no doubt the charter will be passed and why? because NO opposition will be tolerated, NO campaigning against it, NO alternative on the ballot form and... most importantly, it will be Hobson's Choice - vote for it OR the Army Junta stay in power

Thais will vote for it because the vast majority don't want a Military Junta and they see no other way out. It's a crying shame for Thailand and an absolute manipulation which will be heralded as a 'Victory' by Suthep, Prayuth and all the elite dinosaurs and, of course, by some deluded TVF posters (you know who you are).

So where is your evidence of a "vast majority" who don't want a military junta?

well an election would show that wouldn't it? and the charter vote will show that won't it?

IF the Thais WANT a military junta then the best way to have one is VOTE NO because then they will stay

Actually neither will. The junta won't be on the ballot, and acceptance of the charter doesn't indicate opposition to the junta government.

When I raise the subject, the result is almost universal indifference, which leads me to believe your "vast majority" is fantasy.

did you understand my point? it appears not

the choice IS yes for charter - Junta goes away (sort of because elite continue to rule)

NO charter - Junta stays (for the good of the people)

so it's Hobson's Choice

Edited August 16, 2015 by LannaGuy

[MZurf]

MRDA

Oh, don't you have a fully functioning keyboard? Here, let me help you;

MIERDA

To further your education, it is a standard internet acronym for Mandy Rice Davies Applies. Now you can try to work out what it means.

Aren't you going to ask where Pol Lt Gen Viroj Pow-in got his millions from?

Thanks for the lesson - who knew!

FYI I am questioning the wealth of ALL of these guys, regardless of political affiliation. You see, I'm not a cheerleader but rather like more/most/a majority of the TV members who are able to see the hidiousness of the previous administrations, but that this in NO WAY justifies the coup.

That's where you cheerleaders fail spectacularly.

One question for you; are you going to ask where the PM got his millions from?

I guess I will have to wait a while for the answer to this question.

[smedly]

that does not surprise me at all, their days of thieving from the Thai people is coming to an end one way or another

So you like the idea of the proposed constitution having provision for military rule and that Thai people are no longer a sovereign nation?

Thailand , = land of the free,,,,,,,,,,, NOT!!! so they'll have to think of a new name for the country.

This wouldn't fly in your home country would it?

and you read that in my post where exactly ???????

and to answer your actual comments, not sure how you are dreaming that one up

[MZurf]

Yep, you're right. I really shouldn't waste my time answering posts by djjamie et al but can't resist when their drivel becomes too outlandish.

Do give over. So you do what, replace it with your own drivel.

PTP are not, and never will be interested in democracy. And neither are the ironically named Dems.

In this topic PTP are not interested in anything that prevents them getting control of the trough again.

I never have, and I never will, defend the PTP. The governments of the last 10 years have been anything but competent and moral - quite the opposite. But what I will defend is the right of the Thai people to elect whoever the hell they want. If that is PTP then so be it.

I agree - they can elect who they want. And whoever they elect must act in accordance with the law or face the consequences.

The real issue here is the tier who really control this country. Sure, there are rival factions who scrap for control of the spoils. But all kept within the tier. And these are the wealthy elites to who accumulate vast wealth and are above the law. Underneath them is a hierarchy of lackeys who do very nicely when their bosses are in power.

I will defend the right of the Thai people to elect whoever they want. And I will defend the force of law to remove criminals from government.

"And I will defend the force of law to remove criminals from government."

No one would be happier than me if blind justice was implemented in Thailand, but that wasn't what the coup was about at all.

[MZurf]

that does not surprise me at all, their days of thieving from the Thai people is coming to an end one way or another

Yes, it's now back to the "old" snouts in the trough - and that's much better of course .

name them and I might give some credit to your claims otherwise you would be better saying absolutely nothing

on the otherhand it is well documented who has been thieving in this very sorry so called democracy which time and time again as been shown to be corrupt to the core, they are slowly being routed out and I hope they all end up in prison and their spoils end up back with the Thai people going towards health and education - land of thieves but someone is calling you in and may it continue....wash rinse spin WRS repeat until clean

"name them and I might give some credit to your claims otherwise you would be better saying absolutely nothing"

Are you serious?? You do know about the defamation laws in this country, right? I mean, it's obvious you don't actually live here (which seems to be the case for many of the cheerleaders) but you should know something about a subject before posting.

"they are slowly being routed out"

Yes, the competitors of the current group of snouts are being harassed but if you think that this in any way constitute a real change then.....well, that's just so touchingly naive!

Edited August 16, 2015 by MZurf

[jonclark]

I would have thought that as one of the major justifications for the coup was to allow reconciliation to occur, then at the core of this must be a charter that all the major political players agree on a actively support. When Thailand's most successful political party of the past ten years (whether you like them or not) is encouraging its supporters to reject it, then this 'house of reconciliation' is being built on very shaky foundations.

I'd imagine that if PTP manages to get up a head of steam and mobilize its supporters to reject this charter that is going to raise some very serious questions. The biggest headache that outcome would give the junta is, that despite many hours of attitude adjustment, PTP still is the party of the people and despite all their bluster the junatas work will be undone within a few years once the new incarnation of PTP head up the next civilian government.

[slapout]

For PTP to express concern for democarcy and the economy after their past record is laughable. The present government is going after those who robbed thai public blind and attempting to get some semblance of order and fairness back into the system of government, which ever system is finally deci8ded on.

If you just take the price of lottery tickets into account you can figure how much money did not go to the shyster middle men who became billionares complements of those who awarded them this privilage.os distributing lottery tickets.

Before 110 to 120 baht cost, now 80 baht. Thus 30 to 40 baht someone had to buy a bowl of noodles. Muliply this by tickets sold each fortnight, reported to be several millions. Just 10 million ticket sales equates to 600 million baht per month min. The disabled seem to still be holding their old locations with current prices.I do not know if ticket sales are up or down but I do not believe the 30 40 baht lost in tickets sale price was ever even in part distributed to government agencies for the good of the public. Put that figure up as a real number back into local econbomy, if the punters did not just buy more tickets.

This must have a few [ndividuals crying in the high priced scotch and havanna cigars.

[tbthailand]

indifference or resignation?

both are the friends of those who want to continue with a back-a$$wards feudal system of farming on the backs of the Thai people. It's been that way for centuries, and it has been that way for most of the last century, too.

It's about time for a change. The people of Thailand know that they have rights and that they have a voice.

Change is just a matter of time.

And make no mistake, it's going to be a fight when it comes... again, and again, and again....

[robblok]

indifference or resignation?

both are the friends of those who want to continue with a back-a$$wards feudal system of farming on the backs of the Thai people. It's been that way for centuries, and it has been that way for most of the last century, too.

It's about time for a change. The people of Thailand know that they have rights and that they have a voice.

Change is just a matter of time.

And make no mistake, it's going to be a fight when it comes... again, and again, and again....

You mean the reds are going to kill children again and throw grenades and stuff. Seems you revel in violence often posting about it. Then cry when the army comes in and shoots at them.

This is not about democracy just about who is stealing from them. The current regime at least makes sure nobody gets killed and does something against corruption. The previous government did nothing, this one does a bit more but not enough. But at least it does something instead of nothing.