Two ways to revoke Thaksin's royal decorations: Wissanu

[LannaGuy]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

Edited August 16, 2015 by LannaGuy

[ginjag]

Interesting, but one thing I don't understand is if vote buying has no influence on the outcome of the elections why are they doing it ?

It is just not like a Thai to throw money at something for no gain. If they wanted to give money to the people why not do it legally ?

Which brings up another point, vote buying is against the law, no matter who is doing it.

So much for free and fair elections. They don't exist in Thailand.

The report that I read was specific to elections in Thailand in the 2008-2010 time frame.

The report said vote buying was found in some areas of Thailand but not all, and that vote buying was done by both sides in contested elections.

The report did not offer an opinion as to whether vote buying in those instances in Thailand affected the results.

However, in other reports I have read that vote buying to influence large scale elections is ineffective. In countries with election problems, the most common form of corruption is ballot manipulation (e.g. throwing away ballots or stuffing ballot boxes with extra ballots). I have not heard of this kind of problem in major elections in Thailand.

As to why vote buying occurs if it is ineffective, I would say that campaign spending in general can be incredibly ineffective, and there is a mountain of evidence to show you cannot often buy your way to an election victory.

Living in a northern red village where the village head man was paid by the local town council who was paid by ?? the head man controlled the village--the villagers no matter what their views had to conform with the head mans influence. If not they did not get privileges.

Remember Thaksins national message--??? if you people in the south do not vote for me you will not receive any perks-----approx but near enough.

This actually throws away much of what you say.

Edited August 16, 2015 by ginjag

[ginjag]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

What do you know about free and fair elections we have never had any here---that's why things are being done to try to eradicate it.

See my other post and that will tell you what influence was made..................Post #32.

By the way YELLOWS at airport was there an election there ??? The Dems in the south did not need to hardly do it--as it was a safe area---especially after Thaksins statement #32.

The north is where the balance was swayed-----as most of the Thai population live there so Thaksin did his homework correct.--

Edited August 16, 2015 by ginjag

[starky]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

Oh if only we could bury it. However it is one of the last straws the but...but...but....Thaksin brigade has left. Defending this farce of a government but pointing at things Thaksin did or did not do is a nonsense. Surely this coup led government, if they are all they claim to be, would be held to a higher standard and would not engage in any of the nepotism, cronyism or corruption of former governments. Anyone with half a brain knows why the coup happened and it was only because certain people had to be in power when a certain event (which is gonna happen sooner than later) comes to pass and was meticulously planned well in advance and just used smoke and mirrors to justify the illegality of their actions. Some people on here stubbornly continue to be cheerleaders for the junta when it is clearly no different to the cycle that has been going round and round, coup after coup for generations. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is none so blind as those that can not see.

[boomerangutang]

Somyot, the chief of police chiefs has a credibility quotient on par with his buddy Thaksin. In other words, when he declares something, its opposite is more likely the truth. When Somyot says he's willing (even eager?) to strip his friend Thaksin's police rank, it doesn't sound believable. Additionally, it's been talked about for years, and has never happened. So, Somyot's talk is probably just lip service.

Interesting he's going out to pasture on Sept. 30th. that's the same day which the verdict of guilt or innocence is supposed to be announced re; the two Burmese scapegoats on trial for the double murder/rape in Ko Tao 11 months ago. Somyot was a key player in the cover-up. The two events happening on the same day is probably a coincidence, but odd nevertheless. Will the announcement of the boys' guilt be his last official act? Then he can take his 350 million baht and sail off in the sunset - to Europe or the US or wherever very rich Thais go when they want to flee Thailand (flee prosecution). Thaksin's friend Purachai sailed off to reside in New Zealand, after creating problems in alongside Thaksin. And we all know the story of Thaksin running off - saying he just wanted to go to the Beijing Olympics, and would come straight back - ha ha ha, he fooled us again, just like each of the many times when he said, "that's it. I'm through with politics" ......ha ha ha. Maybe that's some sort of Chinese humor.

Edited August 16, 2015 by boomerangutang

[Ricardo]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

"How would they know? or police it?"

Which is why, for the 2005-election, our local village voting-booths (and where you put your cross) were visible through the window, and IIRC that's why the E.C. nullified that election.

And of course the village paluang is paid, to deliver the vote from 'his' village, or not paid, if he fails to.

None of this is news, of course. But perhaps people who weren't here, way back then missed it.

[waza]

Vote buying is more than giving voters money for their vote as Thanks in and his synchopants did, it's also promising to make everyone rich in six months, promising to pay above market for rice, give all car buyers 1 hundreds of thousand baths in rebates, ect ect

As Thanks in and his synchopants did. But back on topic most if not all of Thaksins and Ying lucks royal decoration were recommended by their own government with the royal decree being a formality. However, I would concede that there removal would require a similar decree.

[Srikcir]

As Nike says "just do it"

regards Worgeordie

Or as the Thais say, "Just do me."

[Benmart]

Oh gaaawd the other day it was all wrapped barring Royal approval. Now there is 2 ways to strip him. Maybe word has slipped that Royal approval would not be granted,which would leave a lot of people with egg on their face none of whom would be Thaksin. My advice would be hurry up and strip the bloody rank or shut the <deleted> up about it.

Seems that this matter is a solely a Thai one and my lamentations to "hurry up" would be meaningless and ineffective.

[khunken]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

"How would they know? or police it?"

Which is why, for the 2005-election, our local village voting-booths (and where you put your cross) were visible through the window, and IIRC that's why the E.C. nullified that election.

And of course the village paluang is paid, to deliver the vote from 'his' village, or not paid, if he fails to.

None of this is news, of course. But perhaps people who weren't here, way back then missed it.

The first post in this thread that points out how it actually works. So much ignorance from bias that people get their payment and that's the end of it.

In many cases people get half and then when the count confirms that the vote buyer is the winner, the other half is paid. TV 'experts' seem to think that the vote buyers are stupid when it's probably the other way around.

Another lie repeated here is that Korn admitted to vote buying. He never did. There was a piece of jumbled translation from an Alongkorn interview that suggested he claimed that his party did more vote buying than PTP. The jumbled translation was deliberately worded to imply the opposite of what he said.

As far as forgetting about Thaksin goes, the Bangkok Post yesterday reported that he told his party to reject the new constitution. So the 'good' party representative Pol Lt Col who was reported as saying that PTP were against the constitution really meant that Thaksin told them so.

So, get on with removing the crook's rank and ill-gained medals.

[mikemac]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

Oh if only we could bury it. However it is one of the last straws the but...but...but....Thaksin brigade has left. Defending this farce of a government but pointing at things Thaksin did or did not do is a nonsense. Surely this coup led government, if they are all they claim to be, would be held to a higher standard and would not engage in any of the nepotism, cronyism or corruption of former governments. Anyone with half a brain knows why the coup happened and it was only because certain people had to be in power when a certain event (which is gonna happen sooner than later) comes to pass and was meticulously planned well in advance and just used smoke and mirrors to justify the illegality of their actions. Some people on here stubbornly continue to be cheerleaders for the junta when it is clearly no different to the cycle that has been going round and round, coup after coup for generations. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is none so blind as those that can not see.

.................."Some people on here stubbornly continue to be cheerleaders for the junta"..........................

When are you going to name and shame these hideous cheerleaders ? I would be interested to know their identities !

[DGS1244]

He is a convicted criminal therefor the revoking of his rank etc. should be automatic, simple as that.

[lucky11]

How about focusing on : Two ways to improve the thai economy instead on focusing on garbage issues!

By 'garbage issues' do you mean anything relating to Thaksin? I certainly agree with that.

[Baerboxer]

Interesting, but one thing I don't understand is if vote buying has no influence on the outcome of the elections why are they doing it ?

It is just not like a Thai to throw money at something for no gain. If they wanted to give money to the people why not do it legally ?

Which brings up another point, vote buying is against the law, no matter who is doing it.

So much for free and fair elections. They don't exist in Thailand.

Vote Buying is not as you would think its not paying money for someone to change who they would vote for. They give money to everyone in certain areas wher there vote is already popular. I was in Malaysia during the 2013 election and the Government (Umno) were just giving people of certain ageegroups money , was like a supporters bonus to keep them loyal because they had given them 500RM

My experiences in India were the same. Some small cash, food hampers and in one election TV sets given out. These "tips" or gifts were usually doled out in the poor rural low educated areas where there was an expectation of getting something, because it had always be like that. People in those areas vote for who their families always voted for, who the seniors in the villages recommend which is usually the same, and most notable the "personalities" who lead that party. They have no idea and little interest about understanding politics, policies and reforms and changes.

No one changes how they vote based on these tips - but it's the traditional expectation of what happens at elections.

In the better educated more connected and aware cities and towns the practice doesn't happen. People in these locations expect politicians to perform and beheld accountable - that's why there is so many corruption cases now, and so many inept politicians being exposed.

I see Thailand being similar. All the parties have their rural faithful and tip them for taking the trouble to go and vote, It's not a game changer. What I find more astonishing is that MP's can be paid a salary over and above the normal state one by their party or it's owner to vote as instructed.

[alocacoc]

OMG, Thaksin again. Let him come back to TH and let him be PM.

[Baerboxer]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

"How would they know? or police it?"

Which is why, for the 2005-election, our local village voting-booths (and where you put your cross) were visible through the window, and IIRC that's why the E.C. nullified that election.

And of course the village paluang is paid, to deliver the vote from 'his' village, or not paid, if he fails to.

None of this is news, of course. But perhaps people who weren't here, way back then missed it.

The first post in this thread that points out how it actually works. So much ignorance from bias that people get their payment and that's the end of it.

In many cases people get half and then when the count confirms that the vote buyer is the winner, the other half is paid. TV 'experts' seem to think that the vote buyers are stupid when it's probably the other way around.

Another lie repeated here is that Korn admitted to vote buying. He never did. There was a piece of jumbled translation from an Alongkorn interview that suggested he claimed that his party did more vote buying than PTP. The jumbled translation was deliberately worded to imply the opposite of what he said.

As far as forgetting about Thaksin goes, the Bangkok Post yesterday reported that he told his party to reject the new constitution. So the 'good' party representative Pol Lt Col who was reported as saying that PTP were against the constitution really meant that Thaksin told them so.

So, get on with removing the crook's rank and ill-gained medals.

Allowing a criminal fugitive to own a political party and employ ministers and MP's to do his bidding, vote as instructed, and nip off to meet him in Finland (why on earth Finland?) must be against some laws surely?

Presumably not. Seeing the pig's ear their making of most things they do the police wouldn't be able to enforce them if they do exist.

[Baerboxer]

OMG, Thaksin again. Let him come back to TH and let him be PM.

Seeing how he's just called a bunch of his lackeys to Finland (wonder who got the visas, for what reason and paid all the expenses?) and instructed them to oppose the charter. He also challenged the government to strip his rank and honors. He criticized them for not making progress on reconciliation, which as we know in his mind means a total whitewash amnesty for him, his family and all his cronies.

So he's stirring the shit yet again, despite all his promises and vows, which we know are all meaningless as he's a compulsive immoral liar.

The current government, if they had the balls, should get him back to Thailand to serve his sentence, face bail absconding charges, and face the 15 serious outstanding charges waiting in the courts. Don't hold your breadth......................

[rubl]

Oh gaaawd the other day it was all wrapped barring Royal approval. Now there is 2 ways to strip him. Maybe word has slipped that Royal approval would not be granted,which would leave a lot of people with egg on their face none of whom would be Thaksin. My advice would be hurry up and strip the bloody rank or shut the <deleted> up about it.

There are two issues. The one being solved is the stripping of rank. The stripping of certain decorations is what this topic is on.

[rubl]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

Absolutely!

Let's concentrate on way to revoke certain decorations only.

[Basil B]

Stripping him of his rank.

This is how I would do it...

https://youtu.be/_-Mnp6VAmEc

[MaeJoMTB]

OMG, Thaksin again. Let him come back to TH and let him be PM.

Don't worry, if they ever have another election, he will be PM again (either in person or by proxy).

[geriatrickid]

"...........his service in the police, because he only served briefly as an officer." Yet managed to obtain the rank of Lt-Colonel AND 2 higher degree from US universities. His most stunning success though was marrying the bosses daughter. I'm not sure what the decoration for that looks like.

Your bitterness and jealousy is once again on display. The former Prime Minister of Thailand graduated from the police academy in 1973. He was given a leave of absence from active duty to pursue graduate education, however, he was still a police officer. Upon his completion of advanced academic studies in 1978, he worked as an active police officer. When he left active police service in 1987 he was Deputy Superintendent of the Policy and Planning Sub-division, General Staff Division, Metropolitan Police Bureau. This is hardly a "brief" stay.

Why repeat a gross exaggeration? Is it because it provides an opportunity to insult and denigrate someone you dislike?

A brief period means a short period. Unless one is dealing with a time line of a few hundred years, a 14 year period does not qualify as a brief period.

You ridicule his Masters and Doctorate in criminal justice. Where did you complete your masters and doctorate level education?

He didn't marry the bosses(sic) daughter. He married his wife in 1976. (He only had one wife.) At the time he was in the USA studying for his masters diploma and not on active police duty. His "boss" was not his father in law.

[geriatrickid]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

The vote buying activity in Thailand is relatively insignificant when compared to what happens in the developed world.

The US primary season is underway. The election spending promises are just starting. Billions have been promised on new military spending and of course every politician's favourite "Jobs". BBQs, socials, and freebies are the order of the day as the candidates serve up food, liquid refreshment, t-shirts and handouts. Who wouldn't want a Trump Make America Great Again cap?The diabolical Koch brothers have a war chest of US$889 million to try and manipulate the GOP candidate nomination and then the presidential election.

Canada has a federal election underway. The promises being made to the electorate on how the prospective winning parties would spend taxpayers' money is incredible. Keeping in mind that the Canadian economy is tanking, former high school drama teacher Trudeau and now Liberal party leader is promising CAD $ 3 billion of new spending on aboriginal education. (Nice when the aboriginal student pop is less than 100,000). The leftist NDP is promising a CAD $5 billion child care program. The conservatives handed out $30 million for decorative lights for a big city bridge, despite that city's roads resembling what one find's in rural Thailand.

Tme and time again, the allegations of vote buying are raised in an attempt to dismiss voting results. . Yet, the reports filed by international observers that show a relatively clean election free of voting disputes is ignored. The only recent disruption of elections occurred when Suthep and his allies and supporters in the military interfered with the past election, threatening voters, disrupting balloting and stealing ballot boxes. The culprits were all Suthep, the man who controlled the Democrat party in Thailand.

[elgordo38]

Oh gaaawd the other day it was all wrapped barring Royal approval. Now there is 2 ways to strip him. Maybe word has slipped that Royal approval would not be granted,which would leave a lot of people with egg on their face none of whom would be Thaksin. My advice would be hurry up and strip the bloody rank or shut the <deleted> up about it.

Worked to death who cares? I don't think he cares. Will this be the jewel in the PM's crown of accomplishments for 2015?

[starky]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

"How would they know? or police it?"

Which is why, for the 2005-election, our local village voting-booths (and where you put your cross) were visible through the window, and IIRC that's why the E.C. nullified that election.

And of course the village paluang is paid, to deliver the vote from 'his' village, or not paid, if he fails to.

None of this is news, of course. But perhaps people who weren't here, way back then missed it.

Well in my village people were paid before they voted and I didn't go to.the booths as I am not Thai and don't get a stay and as I have been living here since 2002 permanently I have seen a fair bit smart a$$

[neal david]

i just wish that the dip stick ....Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu KreaNgam .... would put up or shut the heck up ......its really very boring .... and they say about thailand moving forward ....dream dream ......1 step forward ....50 steps back to the dark ages.......

[starky]

let's bury this 'vote buying' obfuscation

you mean the Dems in the South? yes they did it

or

the Yellows at the airport? yes they paid 500 THB daily

or

The PTP in the North? yes they did it

conclusion is they ALL did it but I can tell you I know many families who took the 'gift' and all voted as they wanted - no checks, no looking over shoulders it made NO DIFFERENCE it's a myth that get's rolled out to hit PTP with because how could anyone POSSIBLY vote for them? well they DID in their millions and you might not like it but that is was democracy folks!

it's wrong and all should stop it but it won't make any difference to the result (in a free and fair election)

Oh if only we could bury it. However it is one of the last straws the but...but...but....Thaksin brigade has left. Defending this farce of a government but pointing at things Thaksin did or did not do is a nonsense. Surely this coup led government, if they are all they claim to be, would be held to a higher standard and would not engage in any of the nepotism, cronyism or corruption of former governments. Anyone with half a brain knows why the coup happened and it was only because certain people had to be in power when a certain event (which is gonna happen sooner than later) comes to pass and was meticulously planned well in advance and just used smoke and mirrors to justify the illegality of their actions. Some people on here stubbornly continue to be cheerleaders for the junta when it is clearly no different to the cycle that has been going round and round, coup after coup for generations. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is none so blind as those that can not see.

.................."Some people on here stubbornly continue to be cheerleaders for the junta"..........................

When are you going to name and shame these hideous cheerleaders ? I would be interested to know their identities !

Well there is no need to name and shame you know very well who you are and of course your entitled to your.opinion but I don't see how constantly referring to the failings of Thaksin and the PTP, neither of whom I have any love for, in any way shape or form is an excuse for the pathetic way the country is currently being governed. I just think the military man is way out of his depth. End of

[JAG]

Interesting, but one thing I don't understand is if vote buying has no influence on the outcome of the elections why are they doing it ?

It is just not like a Thai to throw money at something for no gain. If they wanted to give money to the people why not do it legally ?

Which brings up another point, vote buying is against the law, no matter who is doing it.

So much for free and fair elections. They don't exist in Thailand.

The report that I read was specific to elections in Thailand in the 2008-2010 time frame.

The report said vote buying was found in some areas of Thailand but not all, and that vote buying was done by both sides in contested elections.

The report did not offer an opinion as to whether vote buying in those instances in Thailand affected the results.

However, in other reports I have read that vote buying to influence large scale elections is ineffective. In countries with election problems, the most common form of corruption is ballot manipulation (e.g. throwing away ballots or stuffing ballot boxes with extra ballots). I have not heard of this kind of problem in major elections in Thailand.

As to why vote buying occurs if it is ineffective, I would say that campaign spending in general can be incredibly ineffective, and there is a mountain of evidence to show you cannot often buy your way to an election victory.

Living in a northern red village where the village head man was paid by the local town council who was paid by ?? the head man controlled the village--the villagers no matter what their views had to conform with the head mans influence. If not they did not get privileges.

Remember Thaksins national message--??? if you people in the south do not vote for me you will not receive any perks-----approx but near enough.

This actually throws away much of what you say.

One thing I have never really understood is that if the Red control of the villages that several live in is as absolute and ruthless as they claim, why haven't they been forced to leave?

Given the enthusiasm with which they post their views here, one assumes they make no secret of their views in real life.

[boomerangutang]

oh and another thing if I was in Australia and a rep from the liberal government came round my house and gave me 10 or 100 or 1000 dollars to buy my vote I would say yes and vote labor anyway. Your under the assumption that because they received the measly 200 baht that they all did what they said. How would they know? or police it? or get the money back?

"How would they know? or police it?"

Which is why, for the 2005-election, our local village voting-booths (and where you put your cross) were visible through the window, and IIRC that's why the E.C. nullified that election. And of course the village paluang is paid, to deliver the vote from 'his' village, or not paid, if he fails to.

None of this is news, of course. But perhaps people who weren't here, way back then missed it.

Pu yai ban (village headmen) are paid to deliver the block of votes for their village. They're either given money to pay for votes. Not all is cash. Pu yai ban may get 'gifts' like large screen TV's and new cars/trucks, lucrative no-bid contracts, and other favors. Someone asked "how do they know who voted as they were told/paid to vote?" This is not a western country. This is Thailand. The pu yai ban and his operative know who voted for whom. If a villager got paid to vote for TRT and didn't, that person would face trouble. They might not get the 200 sq.M plot of nice land promised, but instead get the 120 sq.M located in a bog, ....and so on. I know three hill tribers from three different villages, and they all tell the same sort of story about getting payments for voting for TRT (or whatever Red Shirt name was used at the time). If they don't vote as agreed-upon, they get penalized and berated. Up here in northern Thailand, there are hundreds of hill tribes comprising tens of thousands of voters. Take the same dynamic and spread it around Thailand, and you get an idea of why the Shinawatres get voted in.

Another payment-for-votes scheme, similar to western countries: promise poor people you'll implement ways for them to get more money. Rice scheme, computers for kids, 30-baht hospital visits, rebates for new cars, .....and the beat goes on.......

[ginjag]

Interesting, but one thing I don't understand is if vote buying has no influence on the outcome of the elections why are they doing it ?

It is just not like a Thai to throw money at something for no gain. If they wanted to give money to the people why not do it legally ?

Which brings up another point, vote buying is against the law, no matter who is doing it.

So much for free and fair elections. They don't exist in Thailand.

The report that I read was specific to elections in Thailand in the 2008-2010 time frame.

The report said vote buying was found in some areas of Thailand but not all, and that vote buying was done by both sides in contested elections.

The report did not offer an opinion as to whether vote buying in those instances in Thailand affected the results.

However, in other reports I have read that vote buying to influence large scale elections is ineffective. In countries with election problems, the most common form of corruption is ballot manipulation (e.g. throwing away ballots or stuffing ballot boxes with extra ballots). I have not heard of this kind of problem in major elections in Thailand.

As to why vote buying occurs if it is ineffective, I would say that campaign spending in general can be incredibly ineffective, and there is a mountain of evidence to show you cannot often buy your way to an election victory.

Living in a northern red village where the village head man was paid by the local town council who was paid by ?? the head man controlled the village--the villagers no matter what their views had to conform with the head mans influence. If not they did not get privileges.

Remember Thaksins national message--??? if you people in the south do not vote for me you will not receive any perks-----approx but near enough.

This actually throws away much of what you say.

One thing I have never really understood is that if the Red control of the villages that several live in is as absolute and ruthless as they claim, why haven't they been forced to leave?

Given the enthusiasm with which they post their views here, one assumes they make no secret of their views in real life.

The village head man is higher rank than the villager, when you are higher rank in Thailand it is tradition culture you never question authority. Understand,

Voting is not that important in rural areas, as they live for everyday, so if you happen to have certain views that is easily dampened by a superior.

I have lived in these areas --I am not biased--it is true you do not say anything against the Thaksin clan, taboo in Issan, until PTP shot themselves in the foot and things have changed, the cleaner town area top man is not tolerating these paid head men so the fear has near gone and the money stopped therefore the propaganda liquidated.

There IS red influence in some areas because some people are set in their ways and many do not understand politics.

The biggest change is in the young students of village families who are now aware of the last PTP regime. awareness now is the key.