Po Jai

[Rajah]

I can speak Thai and I know a lot about the different meanings of "jai". But there is still something new, now "po jai" - "po" with an open "o".

Does anybody know the meaning of "po jai"?

[Oswulf]

พอใจ Satisfied

Edited September 24, 2006 by Oswulf

[taxexile]

พอี่ใจ has a typo or spelling error

พอใจ por jai , to be satisfied

[Rajah]

Thank you!

[Johpa]

พอใจ Satisfied

Yes, but it tends to have a more nuanced meaning infering a minimal satisfaction, just enough to be satisfied.

[sbk]

like in po dee (good enough)? ie. its good enough but not great.

[qualigenz]

Por Jai can be used in several similar context:

1) ผมรู้สึกพอใจกับงานนี้มาก = I am very "satisfied" with this job.

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = It's my "desire" to do so.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people are very "happy" with this coup.

[p_brownstone]

Por Jai can be used in several similar context:

1) ผมรู้สึกพอใจกับงานนี้มาก = I am very "satisfied" with this job.

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = It's my "desire" to do so.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people are very "happy" with this coup.

To translate "พอใจ" as "desire' (as in 2 above) is definitely wrong.

The other 2 examples are somewhat marginal interpretations in my opinion.

Generally "พอใจ" would be translated as "content" which may in some contexts equate with "satisfied" but I don't think it can ever be construed as "happy".

Patrick

Edited September 24, 2006 by p_brownstone

[qualigenz]

Por Jai can be used in several similar context:

1) ผมรู้สึกพอใจกับงานนี้มาก = I am very "satisfied" with this job.

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = It's my "desire" to do so.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people are very "happy" with this coup.

To translate "พอใจ" as "desire' (as in 2 above) is definitely wrong.

The other 2 examples are somewhat marginal interpretations in my opinion.

Generally "พอใจ" would be translated as "content" which may in some contexts equate with "satisfied" but I don't think it can ever be construed as "happy".

Patrick

Thank you Khun p_brownstone,

No. 2) is my interpretation based on the feeling when I use the word "พอใจ" as in "ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ (ใครจะทำไม)"

No. 3) is also my interpretation based on my feeling when saying "คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก " It really means "happy" not just "satisfied".

Checking with Longdo (Longdo ), among definition of "พอใจ" are "Delight", "glad".

May be "delight", "glad", and "happy" are different level of expression for English speakers.

[meadish_sweetball]

Not that I am a native speaker of English, but I will stick my neck out and say I think "happy with" is a very reasonable equivalent of "พอใจ" in some instances. Translation is all about context, and words have many connotations.

I often hear English people using "happy with" where it would be possible to use "พอใจ" in Thai, especially in the construction "not happy" or "not very happy" (for example 'I am not very happy with recent trends in the stock market... ผมรู้สึกไม่ค่อยพอใจกับ... ).

Upon closer inspection, my Oxford Duden confirms this - under "happy" they list the example "I am not happy with her work" - ฉันไม่พอใจกับงานของเธอ, sounds perfectly reasonable in my ears, and apparently in the dictionary makers', as well.

May be "delight", "glad", and "happy" are different level of expression for English speakers.

'Delight' is a noun equivalent to "gladness" or "happiness". To make it into an adjective like 'glad' and 'happy', it needs the participle ending -ed.

I think "delighted" is the strongest word of these three. Apart from that, their usage is different in actual speech.

[In the Rai!]

I think we are splitting hairs a little bit..

My understanding of it would be more along the lines of a satisfied feeling than happy. (maybe satisfied and little glad) But I would not say happy or delighted.

For example you can put happy in the same sentence too highlight your joy.

คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก (I am very satisfied with this coup)

คนไทยรู้สึกดีใจและพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก ( I am very delighted with this coup)

If I wanted to express my delight I would say it.

Again this is just my interpritation

In The Rai!

[p_brownstone]

I agree we may be splitting hairs a little here.

The Thai language is certainly not particularly rich in the availability of vocabulary to make a close distinction between nuances in many instances, however as In the Rai points out there is another Thai phrase which does specifically mean "happy" or "delighted", i.e. ดีใจ.

It may be more clear if one breaks down the component parts of พอใจ .

พอ as a verb means "to have sufficient, enough or adequate (for need or demand)"

พอใจ can be translated as "to be satisfied, contented or pleased with ; to agree with ; to be willing to do"

With this in mind the 3 examples given earlier may better be translated as:

1) ผมรู้สึกพอใจกับงานนี้มาก = I feel very "satisfied" with this job.

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = I am "willing" to do this.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people fully "agree with" this coup.

If you wish to express "happiness" or "delight" then better to use ดีใจ.

To hopefully clarify even further, to express "just sufficient" one would say พอดี

Patrick

[meadish_sweetball]

Let's continue to split hairs for a while, it can be fun.

The fact that พอดี means "just sufficient" is indisputable.

However, พอดี and พอใจ are not interchangeable even though they happen to share one component part, so I don't see how it proves anything about the meaning of พอใจ, which is a different expression describing a subjective feeling.

To clarify why the argument does not hold water, try to make a similar analogy with ดี and ดีใจ.

The meaning of words or expressions are dependent on their context, even more so in Thai than in English or other Indo-European languages. This is a necessity since Thai is an analytical language (does not use conjugations) and not an agglutinative language (with extensive use of conjugations).

Further, the fact that we have ดีใจ as a close cognate of English 'happy' does not mean that พอใจ cannot also be used to describe a similar feeling, given the right type of construction, just like "happy with" can be used to describe satisfaction more than joy in English.

When you say "I am happy with my new car", you are essentially saying you are satisfied, content or pleased with it, are you not? It does not necessarily mean you are dancing around with joy at the thought of it, or smiling all the time while driving it (although that might be the case)?

As a side note, monolingual dictionaries list these synonyms for พอ

เท่าที่ต้องการ; เต็ม; เหมาะ; ควร; ถูก; ชอบ; เมื่อ; เพิ่ง

thao thii tawngkaan; tem; maw!; khuan; thuuk; chawb; meua; phoeng

The last two are examples of พอ as time adverbials, and not relevant here. The others show shades of meaning ranging from "just enough", to "full", "suitable", "right" and even "to like" (for example in the combination ชอบพอ)...

That being said, I think Patrick's translations of the three example sentences are highly satisfactory.

[p_brownstone]

That being said, I think Patrick's translations of the three example sentences are highly satisfactory.

Good one!

Patrick

[Rikker]

While we're splitting hairs, allow me to say that I think พอดี is being mischaracterized a bit here.

It doesn't (usually, at least) mean "good enough." It means "precisely" or "exactly." Rather than "just sufficient" I'd say it means "just right."

To say a piece of clothing fits พอดี means it fits just right--not too big, not too small.

If you bought gifts for, say, people at work, but weren't sure exactly how many to get, but it turned out you bought exactly the right number, that's พอดี.

If, say, you made dinner for your family, and you wanted to comment on your cooking skills in a mildly self-deprecating way, you might taste the food and say พอกินได้ or พอใช้ได้--"it's edible," or "it's good enough." To say พอดี in this situation would be implying that you had made it exactly as you had intended, or that it came out perfectly, or that you finished it just in time, something along those lines. Quite a different meaning from "good enough."

Those are random thoughts from me on the use of พอดี.

[qualigenz]

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = I am "willing" to do this.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people fully "agree with" this coup.

If you wish to express "happiness" or "delight" then better to use ดีใจ.

To hopefully clarify even further, to express "just sufficient" one would say พอดี

Patrick

Patrick,

I would translate "I am willing to do this" to "ผมยินดีที่จะทำอย่างนี้"

What would you say "ผมพอใจจะทำอย่างนี้ ใครจะทำไม" in English?

[In the Rai!]

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = I am "willing" to do this.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people fully "agree with" this coup.

If you wish to express "happiness" or "delight" then better to use ดีใจ.

To hopefully clarify even further, to express "just sufficient" one would say พอดี

Patrick

Patrick,

I would translate "I am willing to do this" to "ผมยินดีที่จะทำอย่างนี้"

What would you say "ผมพอใจจะทำอย่างนี้ ใครจะทำไม" in English?

I would translate it as..

I am happy to do this.. What is your problem?

Not very polite Thai though and usually would be used if someone was annoying you..

I now understand the point made though with พอใจ as can at times be used as happy.

In The Rai!

Edited September 26, 2006 by In the Rai!

[bannork]

Whilst we're on the theme of satisfaction another good word is สะใจ sa-jai which I think often works out as 'satisfying' as in a satisfying result, conclusion, it's what you wanted to happen.

You try many times to get a hole in one, in the end you do-sajai.

The godfather finally ends up in the slammer-sajai.

[Rajah]

Thanks for all your opinions.

"Po jai" seems to be quite difficult to translate and now became a hot topic!

[qualigenz]

I think "พอใจ" which is mapped to "satisfied" is a shorten form of "พึงพอใจ"

Such as "ประชาชนรู้สึกพึงพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก". It is the same as ""ประชาชนรู้สึกพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก"

[samran]

I think "พอใจ" which is mapped to "satisfied" is a shorten form of "พึงพอใจ"

Such as "ประชาชนรู้สึกพึงพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก". It is the same as ""ประชาชนรู้สึกพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก"

I think the censors will be happy with this one.....

[Rikker]

Here's a question, qualigenz:

Other than your native intuitions, do you know of any evidence for one analysis over the other, as to whether พอใจ is shortened from พึงพอใจ, rather than that พึงพอใจ is an "elaborate" version of พอใจ?

[p_brownstone]

Well, พึง is a sign of the imperative ; ought ; should ; must ; to be required by a necessity ;

I have heard

พึงไป "ought to go"

even

พึงซัง as "should be hated"

but I think พึงพอใจ would change the sense of the sentence and be translated accurately as "Thai people ought to agree with this Coup" ?

Patrick

[qualigenz]

Here's a question, qualigenz:

Other than your native intuitions, do you know of any evidence for one analysis over the other, as to whether พอใจ is shortened from พึงพอใจ, rather than that พึงพอใจ is an "elaborate" version of พอใจ?

You are right, it could be the later case. See this link -> About Satisfaction (Need PDF reader)

[qualigenz]

but I think พึงพอใจ would change the sense of the sentence and be translated accurately as "Thai people ought to agree with this Coup" ?

Patrick

I don't agree on this.

Both "พึงพอใจ" and "พอใจ" as in "ประชาชนรู้สึกพึงพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก" are exactly the same (at least for me). "พึงพอใจ" is a little more formal, though.

The word "พึง" in other case like "พึงไป", "พึงสังวรณ์", พึงระมัดระวัง", "พึงชัง" is interpreted as ought ; should ; must etc. as Patrick said.

However, I don't know the rule behind this. Need a professor to clarify this.

Edited September 27, 2006 by qualigenz

[Rikker]

I understand where you're coming from there, p_brownstone. As qualigenz has said, though, พึงพอใจ and พอใจ are simply synonyms.

It is possible, then, that you've actually presented evidence that พึงพอใจ is an elaborate version of พอใจ, with พึง present for euphony, since it doesn't seem to fit the normal literal meaning of พึง.

Just a thought...

Edited September 27, 2006 by Rikker

[meadish_sweetball]

I think that sounds likely, too.

Compounds are not strictly mathematic. Sometimes the sum of two component parts is completely different from what you'd expect based on studying the component parts in isolation.