Bizarre college hazing rituals must be stopped

[webfact]

CHALK TALK
Bizarre college hazing rituals must be stopped
Chularat Saengpassa
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- FOR MORE than two decades, bizarre and unreasonable freshmen initiations have been going on in Thailand.

Indeed, not a single year has passed without disturbing reports of overboard rituals that the incoming class has to endure. The hazing often includes humiliation, violence and sexual harassment. Every time such reports emerge, authorities vow to investigate and punish the culprits. Yet, when the new academic year begins, nothing much changes.

Let's look at what has been occurring around Thai campuses lately. After the first semester opened last month, new freshmen at the Maha Sarakham University's College of Music were required to shave their heads. Many first-year business administration students at Phranakhon Rajabhat University had to go topless during some activities prepared by their seniors. Some were captured in a video that also went viral.

That's not the end of the upsetting stories. Last week, another video revealed management science students at Suan Sunandha Rajabhat University performing something very close to sexual acts during initiation.

What are such things for?

What will students gain from such nonsense activities?

When I was a "frosh" more than two decades ago, I also took part in an initiation that dragged on for months. I was tired of the scolding, verbal abuse and irrational orders for me and my friends to run for kilometres under the scorching sun. I even rolled myself along a hot cement floor to try to comprehend the rituals that my seniors said would create a bond.

Such initiation rituals were conducted under the theme of "SOTUS" - S for seniority, O for order, T for tradition, U for unity and S for spirit.

But what have the initiation activities really brought?

One of my friends dropped out from our university. She said she was not physically fit to take part in the arduous regime of initiation and she did not think there was a reason to put up with the humiliation and punishment that seniors was trying to throw at us.

I complained about the initiation to my adviser and soon, after my seniors found out, I was punished for that.

After bearing all the initiation practices, humiliation and punishment, I reckoned that some kind of bond had materialised.

Yet, even with hindsight, I can tell that my friends and I could have bonded through several other forms of activities. There is no point to using violence, irrationality and punishment.

A share of pain, blame and punishment during the hazing might bring first-year students closer, but not for long. The long-lasting ties need something else. Can love blossom through fear? I am afraid it cannot.

So, year after year, I have been waiting to see some improvement in initiations.

In recent years, there has emerged a longer list of ice-breaking and team-building activities that company employees and executives have taken part in to establish bonding, and learn how cooperation is so meaningful in our lives.

So, I really think university students should get more ideas on how to develop relationships properly.

Creativity and green trends have also been promoted in Thailand during the past decade. So constructive initiation activities like tree-planting at Naresuan University should blossom in place of the humiliating and outrageous activities that older students try to impose on freshmen.

Asst Prof Yutthapoom Suwannavej, assistant president of Phranakhon Rajabhat University, is quick to take action against students responsible for improper initiation ceremonies. Chonnanart Meenanant, assistant president of Suan Sunandha Rajabhat University, does the same thing.

Luedech Kerdwichai, president of Sunandha Rajabhat University, has also tried to downplay the scandal by suggesting that no girls were involved in the erotic hazing videos.

Transvestite students appeared in those videos and all those involved were being punished, he said.

But the key points here are that no matter what sexual preference one has, one should never be subjected to sexual harassment, and that initiation rituals should stop containing sexual acts, humiliation and violence.

Let's stop the bizarre and barbaric tradition. It's time all parties encourage students to look at such rituals with responsibility. Those who organise them must do so for a good purpose, not to make fun of or to wield power over younger students. Those who join them must know their rights and protect them.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Bizarre-college-hazing-rituals-must-be-stopped-30268278.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-07

[seajae]

doesnt help when these so called seniors have the mentality of a 10 year old, hazing is simply a form of bastardization and anyone forcing others to participate should be expelled and arrested. We see deaths, severe injuries and total humiliation every year yet the universities lack the balls to stop it, truly pathetic and shows how childish many at universities(teachers and students) really are. Supposedly only the brightest go onto university, this makes a total mockery of it, no wonder thai uni's rank so low in the world and the qualifications are not accepted as genuine, way past time for Thailand to actually grow up and start showing some common sense and maturity.

[Strangebrew]

It isn't just a Thai thing this is wide spread and only used to boost ego's of those lacking in other areas. LEAD, follow or get out of the way.

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[Jenny Adara]

just strikes me as very strange, i was always under the impression that Thais dont want to lose face, so why are they humiliating their brothers and sisters... i can only see it as the same reason Songkran exists and all rules and concern for the safety of others goes out the window - why? because fun is more important than life!

[TimmyT]

all these "youth initiations" all over the world is just an instinctive behavior. In prehistoric times one should be initialized (by showing submission to seniors, including sexual, of course) to be a part of a tribe, of a vertical chain of subordination. Modern youth just instinctively repeats this behavior patterns. Seniors want to show power and to assert themselves at the expense of youngsters.

self-conscious people just lough on these stupid rituals.

when I was younger and somebody tried to force me to take part in this initiation I spitted in his face. sometimes I was beaten but never obeyed. I respect myself for this.

Edited September 7, 2015 by TimmyT

[smotherb]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites. Some go overboard others do not. Many people have refused, complained, and reported the rituals which have caused some societal organizations to diminish their activities. What's the big deal? Someone getting hurt, that's the deal. However, embarrassing someone or making someone the brunt of a joke, should be taken for what it is, an initiation rite to show you are a good sport. Such initiations may inspire enthusiasm, devotion, and a strong sense of honor within those included; something so many organizations lack today. As with anything else humans do, moderation is the key--use that brain; but alas, we are developing into a species without that which sets us apart.

[impulse]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites.

Properly conducted, they are valuable in building a sense of belonging, purpose and teamwork.

The problem happens when sadistic idiots abuse the rites to get their jollies. Or untrained idiots put people's lives at risk in the name of camaraderie.

Sick hazing was rife in the '70s when I was in college and was centuries old even then, so it's hardly a recent Thai thing.

[thaipod]

I remember a few years back a student died from drowning at a hazing ritual after being forced to stay under water at a beach.

[cookee68]

Let the children play their games, what else would you expect from uneducated fools

[Bluespunk]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites. Some go overboard others do not. Many people have refused, complained, and reported the rituals which have caused some societal organizations to diminish their activities. What's the big deal? Someone getting hurt, that's the deal. However, embarrassing someone or making someone the brunt of a joke, should be taken for what it is, an initiation rite to show you are a good sport. Such initiations may inspire enthusiasm, devotion, and a strong sense of honor within those included; something so many organizations lack today. As with anything else humans do, moderation is the key--use that brain; but alas, we are developing into a species without that which sets us apart.

It's thuggish bullying and by the sound of it sexual exploitation in some cases. The scum behind the more violent and exploitative acts should be gaoled.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Bluespunk

[TimmyT]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites.

Properly conducted, they are valuable in building a sense of belonging, purpose and teamwork.

The problem happens when sadistic idiots abuse the rites to get their jollies. Or untrained idiots put people's lives at risk in the name of camaraderie.

Sick hazing was rife in the '70s when I was in college and was centuries old even then, so it's hardly a recent Thai thing.

and what if they came to uni not for "the sense of belonging"? what if they don't want to "belong" to any self-proclaimed social group, but just study, to get a good job in the future?

all these "fraternities" is bullshit and nothing else.

I never wanted to feel myself "belonged" to one, because I felt confident in communication with people without regard of what "fraternity" they belonged to.

The urge to divide the world into friends and foes is completely instinctive. it's a feature of undeveloped, unconscious mind.

[Thian]

It's even worse where i come from.

An 18 yo student died after they made him drink 1 litre of 40% alcohol.

Another one died after he had to drink 6 litres of water

Others got poop smeared into their hair.

One got burned severly because they put him on fire.

Some had to crawl through corridors full of rotten meat/guts.

Others were forced to drink animalblood and were forced to have sex with chickens.

Another one wasn't allowed to drink for 12 hours and after that they pushed his head in a toiletbowl.

Some had to sit in icewater for many hours.

They also had to drink water with goldfish in it.

And yes i come from a developed country.

[lildragon]

It's not just a Thai problem. Most colleges and unis across the world has this culture, I know the UK certainly has and some of the acts said to happen in Thai places are quite tame compared to the ones back home!

It is just an excuse to bully though. Maybe an international campaign? I won't hold my breath.

[speedtripler]

It's even worse where i come from.

An 18 yo student died after they made him drink 1 litre of 40% alcohol.

Another one died after he had to drink 6 litres of water

Others got poop smeared into their hair.

One got burned severly because they put him on fire.

Some had to crawl through corridors full of rotten meat/guts.

Others were forced to drink animalblood and were forced to have sex with chickens.

Another one wasn't allowed to drink for 12 hours and after that they pushed his head in a toiletbowl.

Some had to sit in icewater for many hours.

They also had to drink water with goldfish in it.

And yes i come from a developed country.

Aha, the good ole US of ...

[Thian]

It's even worse where i come from.

An 18 yo student died after they made him drink 1 litre of 40% alcohol.

Another one died after he had to drink 6 litres of water

Others got poop smeared into their hair.

One got burned severly because they put him on fire.

Some had to crawl through corridors full of rotten meat/guts.

Others were forced to drink animalblood and were forced to have sex with chickens.

Another one wasn't allowed to drink for 12 hours and after that they pushed his head in a toiletbowl.

Some had to sit in icewater for many hours.

They also had to drink water with goldfish in it.

And yes i come from a developed country.

Aha, the good ole US of ...

I don't think so mister !

But thanks for the compliment about my english language.

[bamnutsak]

It's culturally institutionalized here - part of the Thai social contract, and hard to escape. Here it is meant to make sure each and every person recognizes authority, obeys orders and keeps to their place in the feudal hierarchy.

Comparing to fraternity hazing in the U.S. is laughable.

[Seastallion]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites.

Properly conducted, they are valuable in building a sense of belonging, purpose and teamwork.

The problem happens when sadistic idiots abuse the rites to get their jollies. Or untrained idiots put people's lives at risk in the name of camaraderie.

Sick hazing was rife in the '70s when I was in college and was centuries old even then, so it's hardly a recent Thai thing.

Correct. Idiots getting their jollies and feeling superior.

Yet it doesn't have to be like that.

My wife was a freshie late 90's at PSU. Their hazing consisted of the seniors supervising, and often joining in, community work such as feeding the poor or cleaning a park. Or even just a group picnic. Sounds tame...if you're into the mentality that hazing is about humiliation,....but it actually fits perfectly with the SOTUS mentioned in the OP.

[lostoday]

It's even worse where i come from.

An 18 yo student died after they made him drink 1 litre of 40% alcohol.

Another one died after he had to drink 6 litres of water

Others got poop smeared into their hair.

One got burned severly because they put him on fire.

Some had to crawl through corridors full of rotten meat/guts.

Others were forced to drink animalblood and were forced to have sex with chickens.

Another one wasn't allowed to drink for 12 hours and after that they pushed his head in a toiletbowl.

Some had to sit in icewater for many hours.

They also had to drink water with goldfish in it.

And yes i come from a developed country.

At least it wasn't with sheep.

[smotherb]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites.

Properly conducted, they are valuable in building a sense of belonging, purpose and teamwork.

The problem happens when sadistic idiots abuse the rites to get their jollies. Or untrained idiots put people's lives at risk in the name of camaraderie.

Sick hazing was rife in the '70s when I was in college and was centuries old even then, so it's hardly a recent Thai thing.

and what if they came to uni not for "the sense of belonging"? what if they don't want to "belong" to any self-proclaimed social group, but just study, to get a good job in the future?

all these "fraternities" is bullshit and nothing else.

I never wanted to feel myself "belonged" to one, because I felt confident in communication with people without regard of what "fraternity" they belonged to.

The urge to divide the world into friends and foes is completely instinctive. it's a feature of undeveloped, unconscious mind.

If you do not have that sense of belonging; that is your choice. However, many have benefited well from belonging--these social organizations are great networks for that all-important future job market. As I said, before my post was so severely truncated; moderation in these rituals is the key, and staying moderate takes brains; something many of these posers simply do not possess

[TimmyT]

Initiation rituals have been part of life in all societies since societal groups formed. Any social organization, which includes military, governmental, religious, academic, technological, fraternal and ideological has initiation rites.

Properly conducted, they are valuable in building a sense of belonging, purpose and teamwork.

The problem happens when sadistic idiots abuse the rites to get their jollies. Or untrained idiots put people's lives at risk in the name of camaraderie.

Sick hazing was rife in the '70s when I was in college and was centuries old even then, so it's hardly a recent Thai thing.

and what if they came to uni not for "the sense of belonging"? what if they don't want to "belong" to any self-proclaimed social group, but just study, to get a good job in the future?

all these "fraternities" is bullshit and nothing else.

I never wanted to feel myself "belonged" to one, because I felt confident in communication with people without regard of what "fraternity" they belonged to.

The urge to divide the world into friends and foes is completely instinctive. it's a feature of undeveloped, unconscious mind.

If you do not have that sense of belonging; that is your choice. However, many have benefited well from belonging--these social organizations are great networks for that all-important future job market. As I said, before my post was so severely truncated; moderation in these rituals is the key, and staying moderate takes brains; something many of these posers simply do not possess

1) seniors don't ask who has this "sense of belonging" and who don't. they try to force everybody to obey them. and anybody who does not is a challenge for seniors authority. that's why these initiation rituals are so wrong and harmful for humans - but for apes they are, of course, perfect.

2)does it mean that this "sense of belonging" is useful for somebody to get a job not because he is the best candidate but because of informal "connections"?!

it means that this initiation is even more wrong and counterproductive. society wins when everybody get the job according to his or her merits and abilities but not by connections.

I think you would be more happy in mafia society - there connections are everything and merits and abilities - nothing.

[Caitrin]

It's culturally institutionalized here - part of the Thai social contract, and hard to escape. Here it is meant to make sure each and every person recognizes authority, obeys orders and keeps to their place in the feudal hierarchy.

Comparing to fraternity hazing in the U.S. is laughable.

Uh... and it isn't in the U.S.? I'm both highly critical of the Greek system and Greek myself. The reason these two facts are not mutually exclusive is because bluntly put, Greeks are represented disproportionately at the top levels of the U.S. society. This means even being a progressive individual who finds the level of hazing, alcohol and substance abuse, misogyny, racism, and classism appalling recognises that the system is a product, not a generator, of these issues. If you want to reform the system, you need to be listened to, and the fastest way for a the system to listen to you is... well... for you to be Greek yourself.

Just how much of the U.S. elite is Greek? Uh, most of it.

Of the nation's 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men.

85% of the Fortune 500 executives belong to a fraternity.

40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men.

76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity.

Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

63% of the U.S. President's Cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek.

The first Female Senator was Greek

The first Female Astronaut was Greek

All of the Apollo 11 Astronauts are Greek

[lostoday]

It's culturally institutionalized here - part of the Thai social contract, and hard to escape. Here it is meant to make sure each and every person recognizes authority, obeys orders and keeps to their place in the feudal hierarchy.

Comparing to fraternity hazing in the U.S. is laughable.

Uh... and it isn't in the U.S.? I'm both highly critical of the Greek system and Greek myself. The reason these two facts are not mutually exclusive is because bluntly put, Greeks are represented disproportionately at the top levels of the U.S. society. This means even being a progressive individual who finds the level of hazing, alcohol and substance abuse, misogyny, racism, and classism appalling recognises that the system is a product, not a generator, of these issues. If you want to reform the system, you need to be listened to, and the fastest way for a the system to listen to you is... well... for you to be Greek yourself.

Just how much of the U.S. elite is Greek? Uh, most of it.

Of the nation's 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men.

85% of the Fortune 500 executives belong to a fraternity.

40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men.

76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity.

Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

63% of the U.S. President's Cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek.

The first Female Senator was Greek

The first Female Astronaut was Greek

All of the Apollo 11 Astronauts are Greek

I'm a Beta

[smotherb]

TimmyT said, "

1) seniors don't ask who has this "sense of belonging" and who don't. they try to force everybody to obey them. and anybody who does not is a challenge for seniors authority. that's why these initiation rituals are so wrong and harmful for humans - but for apes they are, of course, perfect.

2)does it mean that this "sense of belonging" is useful for somebody to get a job not because he is the best candidate but because of informal "connections"?!

it means that this initiation is even more wrong and counterproductive. society wins when everybody get the job according to his or her merits and abilities but not by connections.

I think you would be more happy in mafia society - there connections are everything and merits and abilities - nothing."

You seem to think I am in favor of this form of hazing. Did my mention of moderation and brains mean nothing to you?

Do you really think only ability counts in this world? If you do, you have a lot to learn.

[TimmyT]

TimmyT said, "

1) seniors don't ask who has this "sense of belonging" and who don't. they try to force everybody to obey them. and anybody who does not is a challenge for seniors authority. that's why these initiation rituals are so wrong and harmful for humans - but for apes they are, of course, perfect.

2)does it mean that this "sense of belonging" is useful for somebody to get a job not because he is the best candidate but because of informal "connections"?!

it means that this initiation is even more wrong and counterproductive. society wins when everybody get the job according to his or her merits and abilities but not by connections.

I think you would be more happy in mafia society - there connections are everything and merits and abilities - nothing."

You seem to think I am in favor of this form of hazing. Did my mention of moderation and brains mean nothing to you?

Do you really think only ability counts in this world? If you do, you have a lot to learn.

I think ability is the only thing that SHOULD be counted. and civilized humanity must strive for it. by hardly punishing and derision of all kinds of "initiation ceremonies"

[lostoday]

TimmyT said, "

1) seniors don't ask who has this "sense of belonging" and who don't. they try to force everybody to obey them. and anybody who does not is a challenge for seniors authority. that's why these initiation rituals are so wrong and harmful for humans - but for apes they are, of course, perfect.

2)does it mean that this "sense of belonging" is useful for somebody to get a job not because he is the best candidate but because of informal "connections"?!

it means that this initiation is even more wrong and counterproductive. society wins when everybody get the job according to his or her merits and abilities but not by connections.

I think you would be more happy in mafia society - there connections are everything and merits and abilities - nothing."

You seem to think I am in favor of this form of hazing. Did my mention of moderation and brains mean nothing to you?

Do you really think only ability counts in this world? If you do, you have a lot to learn.

I think ability is the only thing that SHOULD be counted. and civilized humanity must strive for it. by hardly punishing and derision of all kinds of "initiation ceremonies"

No offense but it is obvious you are an employee not a boss/owner.

Edited September 8, 2015 by lostoday

[TimmyT]

I think ability is the only thing that SHOULD be counted. and civilized humanity must strive for it. by hardly punishing and derision of all kinds of "initiation ceremonies"

No offense but it is obvious you are an employee not a boss/owner.

and you think general manager should base his employee choice on who have been with him in fraternity, school, uni, kindergarten?

this is called nepotism

company with such personnel policy will not prosper for long. that's why it's hardly prosecuted by any sane board of directors

lol

Edited September 8, 2015 by TimmyT

[lostoday]

I think ability is the only thing that SHOULD be counted. and civilized humanity must strive for it. by hardly punishing and derision of all kinds of "initiation ceremonies"

No offense but it is obvious you are an employee not a boss/owner.

and you think general manager should base his employee choice on who have been with him in fraternity, school, uni, kindergarten?

this is called nepotism

company with such personnel policy will not prosper for long. that's why it's hardly prosecuted by any sane board of directors

lol

How do you think they pick the King/Queen of England? She is doing great as far as I can see the money bit. Isn't she the longest reigning and richest and so on.... Then there is Bush sr. and jr. The Kennedy family. Roosevelt family. Most all the wealth in the world is held by rich families. All the oil money?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_families

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_money

[TimmyT]

I think ability is the only thing that SHOULD be counted. and civilized humanity must strive for it. by hardly punishing and derision of all kinds of "initiation ceremonies"

No offense but it is obvious you are an employee not a boss/owner.

and you think general manager should base his employee choice on who have been with him in fraternity, school, uni, kindergarten?

this is called nepotism

company with such personnel policy will not prosper for long. that's why it's hardly prosecuted by any sane board of directors

lol

How do you think they pick the King/Queen of England? She is doing great as far as I can see the money bit. Isn't she the longest reigning and richest and so on.... Then there is Bush sr. and jr. The Kennedy family. Roosevelt family. Most all the wealth in the world is held by rich families. All the oil money?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_families

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_money

fraternities are nothing like families.

at least to be someone's kinsman you don't need to be initiated. you are already a kinsman. in monarchy bad effect of nepotism is counterbalanced by good effect of genes, continuity and independence from ohlos.

in history there were so many rich families and monarchies which lost there wealth and power because negative effects became stronger than good effects

"initiation" is just a ritual - a lie and manipulation in order to convince someone to obey (without no objective reason) the collective and it's self-proclaimed leader(s). to give up personality and free will.

people with weak personalities, who subconsciously wish to give up the responsibility for life choices, are happy to be a part of a collective, a tribe, a gang, which will tell them what to do, how to live and what to believe in.

all mafias, gangs, radical movements and parties, religious sects and cults, fraternities, etc are in constant search of this kind people.

read Erich Fromm's "Escape from Freedom".

[lostoday]

No offense but it is obvious you are an employee not a boss/owner.

and you think general manager should base his employee choice on who have been with him in fraternity, school, uni, kindergarten?

this is called nepotism

company with such personnel policy will not prosper for long. that's why it's hardly prosecuted by any sane board of directors

lol

How do you think they pick the King/Queen of England? She is doing great as far as I can see the money bit. Isn't she the longest reigning and richest and so on.... Then there is Bush sr. and jr. The Kennedy family. Roosevelt family. Most all the wealth in the world is held by rich families. All the oil money?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_families

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_money

fraternities are nothing like families.

at least to be someone's kinsman you don't need to be initiated. you are already a kinsman. in monarchy bad effect of nepotism is counterbalanced by good effect of genes, continuity and independence from ohlos.

in history there were so many rich families and monarchies which lost there wealth and power because negative effects became stronger than good effects

"initiation" is just a ritual - a lie and manipulation in order to convince someone to obey (without no objective reason) the collective and it's self-proclaimed leader(s). to give up personality and free will.

people with weak personalities, who subconsciously wish to give up the responsibility for life choices, are happy to be a part of a collective, a tribe, a gang, which will tell them what to do, how to live and what to believe in.

all mafias, gangs, radical movements and parties, religious sects and cults, fraternities, etc are in constant search of this kind people.

read Erich Fromm's "Escape from Freedom".

1. Good effect of genes? No one is that uniformed. Genes and the house of Windsor? http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/haemophilia.html or Google genetic disorders European Royality.

2. Initiation may involve doing good or charity work. You don't know.

3. Most US Presidents were members of Fraternities.

Read

18 U.S. Presidents Were in College Fraternities

It is obvious you are not a member of a Fraternity or an owner of a business. So, I submit you are talking from the outside looking in - without any actual experience of what you speak.

Edited September 9, 2015 by lostoday