English Language Weekly Tabloid In Chiangmai

[ThaiPauly]

So the CMM is no more. Shame

I think that Bubba Jones knows something we don't...sounds like that information came from somebody in the know.

So ...who wants to start a local newspaper then ?

I am sure that the Pattya Mail would sell all the office equipment at a reasonable price, or they are stuck with it.

It's a shame to see it go..I know that it has been poor in terms of editorial content..and the last edition I saw only contained 10 adverts...you can't make money with that amount of revenue coming in. When I first came to CM ..it was packed with adverts and doing 32 pages a week.

I think if management came in and sacked half the staff...that would have a great de-motivating factor so its hardly surprising it went down..all the remaining staff would have been spending their time hunting for new jobs.

Chiang Mai STILL needs an English Language newspaper IMHO

[miltonbentley]

Chiang Mai STILL needs an English Language newspaper IMHO

Totally agree. The Pattaya Mail which is run by the same group is still going so no equipment would be available. Surely somewhere in CM could print a local paper?

Got to be an opportunity there somewhere.

[strongza]

Word has it that the "gentlemen" in Pattaya running the lapsed Chiang Mai Mail are not paying many or any of their outstanding bills, reminders are apparently ignored, and this outfit now looks rather dubious.

Until they settle all their accounts payable and clear their name (which unfortunately grows more tarnished by the day as the stories of their outstandings spread) nobody is going to give them any respect or credence.

And if they do not pay up - what are they going to do? Declare bankruptcy, no liquidity, say very sorry to their creditors, and disappear?

Or maybe resurface fresh-faced and innocent, calling themselves the "Lanna Mail" or similar, with a new owning company and set of directors, and carry on as if nothing had happened?

Let's hope that these circulating suspicions are unfounded, that they are in fact gentlemen, and that they do the right thing. Watch this space.

[Ajarn]

Word has it that the "gentlemen" in Pattaya running the lapsed Chiang Mai Mail are not paying many or any of their outstanding bills, reminders are apparently ignored, and this outfit now looks rather dubious.

Until they settle all their accounts payable and clear their name (which unfortunately grows more tarnished by the day as the stories of their outstandings spread) nobody is going to give them any respect or credence.

And if they do not pay up - what are they going to do? Declare bankruptcy, no liquidity, say very sorry to their creditors, and disappear?

Or maybe resurface fresh-faced and innocent, calling themselves the "Lanna Mail" or similar, with a new owning company and set of directors, and carry on as if nothing had happened?

Let's hope that these circulating suspicions are unfounded, that they are in fact gentlemen, and that they do the right thing. Watch this space.

I really don't like it when a 'newbie' comes here with this basically slanderous gossip. In my opinion, either use your name, or shut-up please

[gerry1011]

City Life is ok, but I had far more pleasure in reading Chiangmai Mail.

I do hope they come back as soon as they can.

[Gonzo the Face]

Word has it that the "gentlemen" in Pattaya running the lapsed Chiang Mai Mail are not paying many or any of their outstanding bills, reminders are apparently ignored, and this outfit now looks rather dubious.

Until they settle all their accounts payable and clear their name (which unfortunately grows more tarnished by the day as the stories of their outstandings spread) nobody is going to give them any respect or credence.

And if they do not pay up - what are they going to do? Declare bankruptcy, no liquidity, say very sorry to their creditors, and disappear?

Or maybe resurface fresh-faced and innocent, calling themselves the "Lanna Mail" or similar, with a new owning company and set of directors, and carry on as if nothing had happened?

Let's hope that these circulating suspicions are unfounded, that they are in fact gentlemen, and that they do the right thing. Watch this space.

I really don't like it when a 'newbie' comes here with this basically slanderous gossip. In my opinion, either use your name, or shut-up please

100% Agree Ajarn

Sounds like a wimpyass crying over spilled milk.... just like 'sumbody done wronged dem'

Maybe somebody that didn't do their homework; thought they would be getting rich quick; invested and made a mistake....

[john b good]

City Life is ok, but I had far more pleasure in reading Chiangmai Mail.

I do hope they come back as soon as they can.

Yes, when it was 32 pages it was better (a fair rag but nothing more mind you)

Don't hold your breath on it ever resurfacing again though.

Their problems were terminal and when ya die you are dead

[Ulysses G.]

The Duke knows the guy who runs the Chiang Mai Mail and he is adamant that they are only taking a "two week vacation" to restructure.

Personally, I remain dubious.

[Ajarn]

The Duke knows the guy who runs the Chiang Mai Mail and he is adamant that they are only taking a "two week vacation" to restructure.

Personally, I remain dubious.

Me, too.. Especially because this is the beginning of the hot season, with at least some advertising,,,

And this, "At this point in time, we do not know how long we will be away. It may be two weeks or two months" Quoted from their website.

[polecat]

Apologies to fans of the Chiangmai Mail, but it was an absolutely awful rag that deserved to go under.

The news articles were dreadfully dull - more yaba seized near Burmese border; hemorrhagic fever still a problem - paired with terrible headlines and wincingly unfunny decks. It never came across as anything more than a hobby horse for semi-retired farang who wanted to play at running a newspaper.

The restaurant reviews were pitiful. The Mail staff were notorious for turning up at new restaurants, ordering all the specials and leaving without even making a gesture to pay the bill. Fawning reviews were printed as bait for advertising contracts, and when deadline loomed or they couldn't find a freebie, they just dropped by their friends' restaurants (just how many times was 'To Nobody' featured?).

They were also notoriously bad payers. This is one of the reasons why none of the talented, experienced and numerous journos in CM would go near them. Many of them, however, write for Guidelines or pen the odd piece for Citylife, magazines which, although not perfect, at least strive for professionalism.

Instead, they employed second-language writers who couldn't get published anywhere else (and not surprising when most of the articles start "On Saturday I woke at 7 am and got a taxi to the airport to fly to Laos. At 7:45 I ate an apple.") and fairweather sub-editors who would work for peanuts.

They did at least get Scott Jones on board, who may not be everybody's cup of tea, but was at least consistent, readable and amusing. Harry Flashman also provided decent copy, although when a 30 page weekly starts handing over 3/4 of a page to a photography column, you know they're struggling for copy.

Then there was the price/marketing issue. When I first moved to CM, I used to buy it regularly, to look for jobs, apartments etc. Then I realised that you could pick up free copies from many cafes/bars and so on. Why pay?

I would really like to know why anybody thought it was of any value, unless it was to read about your kids at an international school event or to see a picture of the German Consul and his wife at a hotel buffet.

Personally, I think it will take cannier operators than those at CMM to make a magazine/paper of any kind sell in CM. You ask Pim at Citylife, Geoff at Guidelines, David (formerly) of Good Morning, Marjorie and Goson at Welcome to... about selling a publication and they will roll their eyes and say "If only.." There is a reason all the rags are free and it's because, while maybe a few hundred of you would pay for a quality publication with less adverts and better quality copy, that wouldn't even pay for printing.

Even the Nation sells next to nil copies in the North, the Post makes a huge loss outside the capital. Untamed Travel couldn't shift enough and has tried to go regional. In Bangkok, Thai Day and Metro have just closed down (allegedly) and others like Big Chilli seem to have basically cancelled their freelance budget. Hiring freezes are in place at nearly all the big publications.

In a place like Chiang Mai, advertisers drop out when coups or birdflu or insurgencies or floods threaten tourist exposure, and the publications' revenue suffers dramatically. Running a successful Eng lang publication is one of the trickiest business ventures out there.

But the Mail? Woeful. Won't be missed.

[Ajarn]

Hey, at least you posted your name..

[jimbob]

Instead, they employed second-language writers who couldn't get published anywhere else (and not surprising when most of the articles start "On Saturday I woke at 7 am and got a taxi to the airport to fly to Laos. At 7:45 I ate an apple.") and fairweather sub-editors who would work for peanuts.

That just made me giggle

[ThaiPauly]

I think that Polecat's reply just about summed up the Mail....

Obviously he knows about the industry.....if it was MY paper I would distribute it FREE to all the Moo Baan's in CM..thus getting the advertisers more response.. and generating more advertisng revenue becuase of increased circulation.

On the editorial front I would bring over the guy that used to edit my publications in the UK...he used to work for THE SUN.....so he could realy right attention grabbing headlines...but how long before he was taken out for doing so?

Its not a safe job ...spreading the truth in LOS

[Ulysses G.]

Obviously he knows about the industry.....if it was MY paper I would distribute it FREE to all the Moo Baan's in CM..thus getting the advertisers more response.. and generating more advertisng revenue becuase of increased circulation.

There are WAY too many "magazines" in Chiang Mai now with little to no real content - mostly adverts. You are just wasting money if you try to advertise in every one of them.

I make it a strict rule to only advertise in publications that I seek out every month to read myself. I wish others would do the same and separate the wheat from the chaff.

Less cr*p magazines would be better for everybody other than the parasites who publish them!

[ThaiPauly]

UG..which one's are worth spending advertsing money in?

[Ulysses G.]

I think that Citylife is the best for reaching local expats and a good number of tourists read it as well.

For English speaking tourists, I think that Guidelines is by far the best for distribution and content. It is full of useful information for tourists and cultural articles, but most expats don't bother reading it, so more magazines reach your target audience. I see lots of them everywhere several times per month.

What's On Chiang Mai is well distributed, has decent content, and is VERY helpful to advertisers. I mostly deal with them because the woman who sells advertising in Chiang Mai - Miss Tik - is so helpful and goes out of her way for advertising customers.

Good Morning Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai has good content IMHO, but for years I have noticed that I can hardly ever find a copy which sort of defeats the purpose of paying money for advertising.

[polecat]

I agree completely UG.

From what I can see, local titles worth considering are ( in no order):

1. Compass - pretty awful articles, but have developed a strong readership among young, upwardly mobile Thais.

2. Guidelines - which is part of the same company as Compass. Not sure exactly what their demographic is - middle-aged, affluent tourists I think - but it is of a consistently high quality.

3. Citylife - (I declare an interest as a former employee and occassional contributor. I know you TVers like full disclosure ) Has a large and loyal readership among expats and is constantly evolving.

4. Hip - Thai language, but very trendy and well put together - I reckon it is going places.

5. Er

6. That's it

These are only opinions and should not be seen as condemnation of other titles.

edit/ oops I wrote this while UG was posting his response. ###### your nimble fingers!

[Claymore]

I could not agree more with this post. The CM Mail was an insult to its readers, as is the Pattaya Mail. Just log on to the Pattaya Mail and read 'Pattaya Mail' history describing its heroic record of fearless investigative journalism and try and keep a straight face.

The CM Mail was started of course by the Pattaya Mail with the intention of broadening its power base and making more cash.

Those of course are not unworthy reasons, but a newspaper's job is to look after its readers, provide what they want to read, even assist with their problems and occasional right wrongs even though I accept the latter can be dangerous in Thailand.

It is not their job to provide crawling stories about local dignataries, their own 'editors', their own good deeds for charity, or to present boring police statements without any contest as to their accuracy, or to go after targets (on the basis of police reports) who are not able to defend themselves.

Pim at Chiang Mai City Life, may have had little journalism experience, but she has shown consistently her concern for the issues of the day, both local and national, and provided invaluable insight into the murder of Kirsty Jones in Chiang Mai a few years ago.

I know a Thai newspaper which has offered the following service to readers.

(a) X amount of Thai baht to keep a foreign arrest out of the newspaper

( X amount of Thai baht to use its helpful staff to clear up an arrest.

And another whose reporters who double up as police, interrogate suspects with stun guns

and offer services (a) and ( as well.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Huge apologies everyone. Thai Pauly kindly drew my attention to the fact that he hadn't received the free subscriptions I promised. Upon checking, it turned out that when I had told the girl at work in charge of subs about this offer, I made the mistake of telling her to start in December 06, not November 06 as was my intention. I will have your magazines sent off today or at the latest tomorrow and I do apologise for any confusion. Mea culpa.

[john b good]

Huge apologies everyone. Thai Pauly kindly drew my attention to the fact that he hadn't received the free subscriptions I promised. Upon checking, it turned out that when I had told the girl at work in charge of subs about this offer, I made the mistake of telling her to start in December 06, not November 06 as was my intention. I will have your magazines sent off today or at the latest tomorrow and I do apologise for any confusion. Mea culpa.

Great news Pim. I must have read every page in the October issue (which I managed to pinch from the Queen Vic when I was there one night) about ten times over.

I will be checking my mail box closely.

Thanks,

j b good

p.s. I was sure that you had said December so I have not been panicking

[Loaded]

What do CM expats want published in a free monthly magazine? I like CityLife but would like to see more stories that get inside what's happening to Thais in CM. For example, corruption cases, local politics, the local environment, roads etc I love living here but apart from friends and the missus I've got no idea what's really happening in this city.

[Little Black Duck]

Always get the impression that apart from a couple of pictures and maybe a write up of a local boozer/restaurant it just a copy of the Pattaya M......or should say Peter M.........

.....and whos the agony aunt.?......petal.....

Your never talking about, Dr "hello little kiddies" Ian, are you..My God if Dr Ian didnt contribute, the Pattaya sorry Chiangmai Mail wold be only front and back covers, Please be kind to the retired OZ Dr..

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Many, many moons ago I was the English Language Editor on Passport to Suvanapoum. I don't know who has seen it. It is owned by a rich guy from Bangkok and he basically bankrolls the (only) writer's trips around SE Asia, duty-free shopping, etc.

The writing was nothing short of atrocious, they sounded like they were written by a 7 year old (much like this post ) - I would be given the articles translated into English and would fix the grammatical errors. To be honest, the whole things should have been re-written - but they left hiring me far too late.

They seemed to have no idea of what western tourists wanted in Chiang Mai - they would write about marathon temple tours in CM - taking in something like 20 temples in a day. They were actually proud of the fact that they were the first CM mag to do regular articles about bird-watching.

After the first issue came out they told me that they would be repeating the articles every month - they would call me to come in and edit articles. This meant that I would be called in at 9AM and would be finished 30 minutes later. It ended up not really being worth my while, and I sort of felt embarrassed putting my name to the rubbish.

I don't know how they manage to stay in business - I picked up a copy the other day and the standard is still as poor as ever. It makes the old Chiang Mai Mail look like dynamic journalism!

[andy1308]

Hi guys,

Sorry - I am late to this thread. I work for a publishing company in Bangkok, although we also have two publications in CM (neither of which have been mentioned, which is a bit of a worry).

Anyway, I have to say that although there may be the readers for an English weekly title in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work. We've looked at it - and the problem is there are too few potential advertisers and too many options for them to place their advertising spend.

To make a weekly attractive to an advertiser you'd need to be getting at least 3,000 - 5,000 audited and verified readers per edition, and that's simply not going to happen. I work for an ambitious publisher with financial backing, but if we don't think it will work then I doubt anyone will. <smiles>

Any suggestions/feedback on what you think will work would be welcome.

Andy.

[Ajarn]

in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work.

Such nonsense. Take a look at a mag like CityView if you think that...

[The Dan Sai Kid]

in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work.

Such nonsense. Take a look at a mag like CityView if you think that...

Wow Ajarn, a fancy new avatar!

Have you been on the old waccy tobaccy!

[Ajarn]

in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work.

Such nonsense. Take a look at a mag like CityView if you think that...

Wow Ajarn, a fancy new avatar!

Have you been on the old waccy tobaccy!

Actually, it's an old one that I used here before...

Time for a change

[The Dan Sai Kid]

in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work.

Such nonsense. Take a look at a mag like CityView if you think that...

Wow Ajarn, a fancy new avatar!

Have you been on the old waccy tobaccy!

Actually, it's an old one that I used here before...

Time for a change

Yeah, I was getting fed up looking at my dancing muppet!

[Ulysses G.]

Hi guys,

Sorry - I am late to this thread. I work for a publishing company in Bangkok, although we also have two publications in CM (neither of which have been mentioned, which is a bit of a worry).

Anyway, I have to say that although there may be the readers for an English weekly title in CM there just aren't the required number of potential advertisers to make it work. We've looked at it - and the problem is there are too few potential advertisers and too many options for them to place their advertising spend.

Huh?

There are a few decent publications and about 20 cr*p ones in Chiang Mai that are CHOCK FULL of advertisements every single month of the year.

Advertisers are in great supply.

[andy1308]

Hi.

From my own experience, although there may be lots of adverts (a) they will not be sold for anywhere near the suggested rate card price, or ( they might even be free. That's what has happened in Bangkok - publishers give free adverts to tempt others, but it just doesn't work. It might look like a magazine is making lots of money, but if you look closely you'll find very few are.

Andy.