Thaksin says reconciliation must stem from justice

[Joe Brennan]

That's rich coming from him

Cannot even face up to his wrong doings

How many people were murdered with his " War on Drugs" ????

Whose 'war on drugs' was that then?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Joe Brennan

[cobbler]

....he and his clan continue to enjoy massive support throughout the country....and this support will be ongoing for ages!

Hence the 'wetting of pants' by the General and cronies, whenever Thaksin passes a comment even remotely related to Thailand. They are in fear of him because he is substantially more popular than the General and 'clan', (which may have something to do with the fact that the General seems to put his foot in it, every time that he makes a public speech).

Until there emerges a new, strong and respected individual, a leader, a politician as popular as Thaksin, the General and mates have zero chance of winning over the populace.

You need an astute businessman (or woman) to manage this country, not a bunch of geriatric military guys.

BTW, before anyone accuses me of being a Thaksin and red-lover, I should comment that I am not. Thaksin was corrupt, which seems to be a characteristic for being in power/government in most developing countries. The difference between Thaksin and the General is that Thaksin was corrupt and an intelligent businessman, and the General is......?????? (I best not complete the sentence)

For a non taksinhisballs supporter, you sure as shit sound like you want to sleep with him 5555

[cobbler]

A certain family bogged thailand in debt for billions of $$$$ to IMF. What is there to show for it? SFA why.? Because its all in the pockets of them and there mates. If the military didnt step in Thais would be suffering to pay it off for generations. Omfg i cant believe some morons. Really are you that blind. As for the moronic redshitts who fight for them. Are they any better off? Nope. Why? Because they see no proffit from this billions of $$$ from IMF. I CANT PUT IT ANY MORE SIMPLE THAN THAT .

Edited October 30, 2015 by cobbler

[mike324]

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere.

Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?

People started raising their eyebrows?

A very small bunch of people funded Sondhi to create the yellow and the rest is history.

Well you just painted everything with a broad brush - as if nothing in Thailand works, powerful people get what they want. Most of it is true, but again your reasoning is too broad.

Things do work here more than you want to admit. The laws in Thailand are there, its just the fines and sentences are a joke. True that the more powerful can bend the laws to favor them when it comes to non-public cases, but most of the time the judges make the correct judgement when it comes to public cases. My Thainess is more than your "Thai at Heart"

Land Case - Show me where the law allows it? Thaksin was convicted on "Conflict of Interest". His wife required his signature to make the bid on the land.

Police and army report to their superiors of course. War on Drugs was created by Thaksin - he publicly said "shoot first ask questions later". As for the Tak Bai incident, it was Gen Pisarn Wattanawongkiri who was in charge of that region, hence he was sack after the incident - he was one of Thaksins generals if that makes any difference.

Thailand is corrupt as hell, but that's not to say there are no good men and women. Again you paint the entire country with a broad brush. The good political figures always retire early or are sleeping in their graves.

Sondhi is a very interesting figure. He was one of the reasons that brought down military government in the 70s. He was a good buddy of Thaksin and was critical of the Dems. So depending on how you see him, he could have been another one of Thaksins knights if he was still on Thaksins side. Due to personal business reasons that occur under Thaksins premiership, he became anti-thaksin. So we should raise our eyebrows over anyone who is anti-thaksin? instead of corruption?

Edited October 31, 2015 by mike324

[Thai at Heart]

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere.

Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?

People started raising their eyebrows?

A very small bunch of people funded Sondhi to create the yellow and the rest is history.

Well you just painted everything with a broad brush - as if nothing in Thailand works, powerful people get what they want. Most of it is true, but again your reasoning is too broad.

Things do work here more than you want to admit. The laws in Thailand are there, its just the fines and sentences are a joke. True that the more powerful can bend the laws to favor them when it comes to non-public cases, but most of the time the judges make the correct judgement when it comes to public cases. My Thainess is more than your "Thai at Heart"

Land Case - Show me where the law allows it? Thaksin was convicted on "Conflict of Interest". His wife required his signature to make the bid on the land.

Police and army report to their superiors of course. War on Drugs was created by Thaksin - he publicly said "shoot first ask questions later". As for the Tak Bai incident, it was Gen Pisarn Wattanawongkiri who was in charge of that region, hence he was sack after the incident - he was one of Thaksins generals if that makes any difference.

Thailand is corrupt as hell, but that's not to say there are no good men and women. Again you paint the entire country with a broad brush. The good political figures always retire early or are sleeping in their graves.

Sondhi is a very interesting figure. He was one of the reasons that brought down military government in the 70s. He was a good buddy of Thaksin and was critical of the Dems. So depending on how you see him, he could have been another one of Thaksins knights if he was still on Thaksins side. Due to personal business reasons that occur under Thaksins premiership, he became anti-thaksin. So we should raise our eyebrows over anyone who is anti-thaksin? instead of corruption?

At the end of the day, until everyone can learn to accept an election result, and the courts start to give out 100% unbiased judgements and continue for decades, things will continue to be broken in Thailand.

Coups and months long protests that end in burning down Bangkok are not normal events that can just be shrugged away. These things have consequences for the whole country.

[mike324]

At the end of the day, until everyone can learn to accept an election result, and the courts start to give out 100% unbiased judgements and continue for decades, things will continue to be broken in Thailand.

Coups and months long protests that end in burning down Bangkok are not normal events that can just be shrugged away. These things have consequences for the whole country.

We've been having stable elections since the 90s with people accepting it. The reason why Thailand is broken is quite simple, politicians not abiding by the law and flaunting their antics openly in public.

Coups and months long protests were all results of that. If past prime ministers play by the game and follow the law, tanks and generals would have stayed at home where it belongs.

[djjamie]

An accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive is asking for justice?

Who would have thought.

[cobbler]

Even with his billions to pay for bribes to be free its still not enough obviously, otherwise he wouldnt still be hiding in another country.