Butcher held over murder, dismemberment of woman in Bangkok

[kiwikeith]

a country is only as bad as the people who live in it I am only beginning to feel uncomfortable now not because of the thai people but because of the influx of foreigners who in my opinion should not have been allowed into the country the scum of the earth, undesirables, criminals they are all here .

Thaland according to my Thai partners opinion--- she said this a few years ago, there seems to be many bad people arround these days, not only Thai, she was talking about the foreign scumbags that are lurking around.

Unfortunately Thailand attracts these people.

Unfortunately most of Europe, Canada, USA, NZ and Aussie have filled their countries up with rubbish, which is contributing to something big happening when the pot boils over.

[jerome2]

When the smile goes the knife is not far... beware

[oldsailor35]

Chopping up defenceless animals is no different from chopping up a human. Those who can do the former can certainly do the latter. Both animals and humans feel parallel levels of fear, stress and pain. This is a scientific fact.

RIP to the young lady.

Mind citing the scientific studies that back up your fact? My childhood friend ended up being a butcher. I never felt worried around him ... great guy. Also note that he did not kill the animals -- the carcasses were delivered from the slaugterhouse to his butcher shop. So yes, I guess the animals he was dealing with were as defensless as the steak I ate for dinner last night. I respect people who choose vegetarianism on moral grounds -- they certainly have a point worth considering. But suggesting that butchers are, by virtue of their trade, prone to murder is plain ridiculous.

He was a butcher at a cattle slaughterhouse. There is no difference in murdering animals or humans.

I'm sure working in a slaughterhouse seeing it everyday and probably slaughtered too , this was second nature for him.

Being a butcher already makes him a murderer , now only with the woman killed , he will go to prison for it.

Ridiculous argument. Murder is about mindset. A soldier kills other soldiers in the context of war. That does not make him a murderer. It does not mean that every soldier who returns to society is a potential murderer. Similarly, a person who kills animals that (most of) the rest of us eat also has a certain mindset when doing their job. It is a completely different mindset from that of a person committing a murder. I can (and will) kill a cockroach, but I don't believe that makes me capable of murder (yes, cockroaches are animals). Do you? I put cockroaches in a different category from humans, and that 'allows' me (psychologically) to kill them. That categorical differentiation also prevents me from generalising this behaviour to humans. I would submit that the same is true for butchers tasked with killing pigs, cows, etc. You make a moral assertion when you say that there is "no difference in 'murdering' animals or humans". Such a statement cannot be proven empirically. However, do note that every dictionary defintion of "murder" that I could find describes it as the killing of a human or person. That creates problems for your argument.

p.s. My mother-in-law used to raise chickens and would occasionally have to kill them for food. Out of karma concerns she is now 100% vegetarian and will not even (literally) kill a cockroach. What - was she a potential murderer of humans before but not now?

What rubbish some come out with. 63 years ago last May i killed a man with a bayonet. Never had the inclination to do it since.

[DaveinAsia]

Okay, it has been awhile since I have contributed to a news story like this on this site, but it just makes me crazy to read the posts. Here is what I would like everyone on here to do. Use the internet or if you are posting from your home country, tune to the local news from your area. Watch it for a week straight. Keep count of the number of attacks, rapes, robberies, murders and other nefarious things that take place in your home town. Start living in reality of life as it is. EVERY WHERE there are crimes committed. Why do you think detective shows on TV are so prevalent? People in society are fascinated by death and the people that commit crimes. If not, then no one would watch these shows and news as it exists would be gone. If we wanted to watch a rosey picture of society, the news would stop reporting the bad stuff. We want it and crave it. It is part of ALL societies. Just because Thailand also has crime does not determine safe or not. That is ridiculous.

This site finds every single instance of issues dealing with crime. The same as the local news in your home time. The same as every news site in the world. It is a thing that fascinates society. Thailand is no different than any other society in any other country. You do not believe that foreigners die in Singapore, Japan, Australia? It happens every day. It is the same as any where else in the world... you must play by the rules of the country you live in or visit. It is not your country. Never think that it is. Even when in your home country, do you lock your doors? Do you park your car under a light? Do you make sure you have a friend around in case things get rough at a certain bar?

This story is about a guy that lost his girlfriend. He couldn't handle it. He lost his control and killed her. He tried to hide the fact. He was not successful. Wow, how many times have we heard that story in books, TV, film, you name it. Just because this guy does something has no relevance in the safety of Thailand and just because foreigners die in Thailand or any other country doesn't mean that all the people in the country want that person dead. How you interact, how you present yourself, how you live, how you ensure your own safety has always been up to you whether you live in Thailand or any other country in the world. Bad people exist everywhere. You wouldn't walk into a bar in New York City at midnight, flash 2,000 dollars and then act like a jerk to everyone there, grab a girl's ass and then simply walk out of the bar five blocks to your home or hotel and NOT expect a possible repercussion... or would you?

The generalizations on this site just make me cringe.

Nothing to do with generalizations. Many of us have been here for years and we remember how peaceful and relaxed this country used to be. The reason most of us moved here were for those very reasons. You are saying it's like this everywhere, just deal with it. What an attitude to have. It means it doesn't really matter to you that Thailand is more dangerous, greedy, violent and crazy than it was say 10 years ago. Just accept it and get on with it, that's your mentality. I say that you don't really care too much about others and the guys that do complain about it do care, at least more.

You try to rationalize violence just so that you can accept it. Many guys like myself can remember the good old days and it makes us sad and a bit scared that this society has almost become as bad as back home, but to you it probably all looks the same, which is fine. Everyone their own thing. Some people care, some people don't

The ostriches on this site just make me cringe.

[DaveinAsia]

Me too, after 20 years in Thailand I feel it's time to move away.

Too violence in the ex land of smile

Just curious.... 20 years ago did you have access to social media in which almost every single violent crime across the country is reported in glorious detail along with half-page colour photos and streamed CCTV videos?

20 years ago almost every crime was on Thai TV and people would be shocked. Stop trying to play that card again Docno.

Thailand has become more violent, greedy and less relaxed than 20 years ago. People feel it on the streets. There is more tension.

But in your case you have only been here a few years so you don't know

[Docno]

Me too, after 20 years in Thailand I feel it's time to move away.

Too violence in the ex land of smile

Just curious.... 20 years ago did you have access to social media in which almost every single violent crime across the country is reported in glorious detail along with half-page colour photos and streamed CCTV videos?

20 years ago almost every crime was on Thai TV and people would be shocked. Stop trying to play that card again Docno.

Thailand has become more violent, greedy and less relaxed than 20 years ago. People feel it on the streets. There is more tension.

But in your case you have only been here a few years so you don't know

That must have been one damn long news programme each night, eh. :-) [You're deluded if you believe that "almost every crime across the country" made it to TV news. That's just not possible. Sorry

Edited November 10, 2015 by Docno

[DaveinAsia]

Chopping up defenceless animals is no different from chopping up a human. Those who can do the former can certainly do the latter. Both animals and humans feel parallel levels of fear, stress and pain. This is a scientific fact.

RIP to the young lady.

Mind citing the scientific studies that back up your fact? My childhood friend ended up being a butcher. I never felt worried around him ... great guy. Also note that he did not kill the animals -- the carcasses were delivered from the slaugterhouse to his butcher shop. So yes, I guess the animals he was dealing with were as defensless as the steak I ate for dinner last night. I respect people who choose vegetarianism on moral grounds -- they certainly have a point worth considering. But suggesting that butchers are, by virtue of their trade, prone to murder is plain ridiculous.

He was a butcher at a cattle slaughterhouse. There is no difference in murdering animals or humans.

I'm sure working in a slaughterhouse seeing it everyday and probably slaughtered too , this was second nature for him.

Being a butcher already makes him a murderer , now only with the woman killed , he will go to prison for it.

Ridiculous argument. Murder is about mindset. A soldier kills other soldiers in the context of war. That does not make him a murderer. It does not mean that every soldier who returns to society is a potential murderer. Similarly, a person who kills animals that (most of) the rest of us eat also has a certain mindset when doing their job. It is a completely different mindset from that of a person committing a murder. I can (and will) kill a cockroach, but I don't believe that makes me capable of murder (yes, cockroaches are animals). Do you? I put cockroaches in a different category from humans, and that 'allows' me (psychologically) to kill them. That categorical differentiation also prevents me from generalising this behaviour to humans. I would submit that the same is true for butchers tasked with killing pigs, cows, etc. You make a moral assertion when you say that there is "no difference in 'murdering' animals or humans". Such a statement cannot be proven empirically. However, do note that every dictionary defintion of "murder" that I could find describes it as the killing of a human or person. That creates problems for your argument.

p.s. My mother-in-law used to raise chickens and would occasionally have to kill them for food. Out of karma concerns she is now 100% vegetarian and will not even (literally) kill a cockroach. What - was she a potential murderer of humans before but not now?

Soldiers who kill people in a war doesn't make them murderers? Speaking from experience? Everyone that kills another human being, either premeditated, been ordered to do so, in self defense or perhaps as an executioner is a murderer. No difference at all. If you suggest otherwise you obviously don't respect the sacredness of life.

I don't care what you write in your defense, it's all intellectual blah blah and will never justify the killing of another human being.

Edited November 10, 2015 by DaveinAsia

[callaway]

Thailand is fast becoming the pits people killing girlfriends and wives every day men going round in gangs to beat-up students because their son gets beat at computer game, been here 16 years and think possibly time to move on now the Thai males are getting out of control and more violent by the day.

Me too, after 20 years in Thailand I feel it's time to move away.

Too violence in the ex land of smile

I have been here 2 years & yes we are selling our house & moving back to a civilized country, Australia. To much worrying here about whether your going to upset someone or your going to get killed on the roads. Thais can have this place they deserve it.

A whole 2 years? You really gave that a go hey mate. Must have been a nice area you lived in. If you didnt read ThaiVisa you would never hear of all the sh#t things happening and have a better perspective of the place. I am seriously considering cancelling ThaiVisa as it really does change the way you look at Thailand with both the supposed news stories and the 98% of negativity on here. Yes you can say its bury your head in the sand attitude but I am here to enjoy the place and still do after 5 years. My missus can tell when I have been reading TV too much because she reckons my attitude changes. Whatsmore I think she is right. Do not leave Thailand but instead leave TV. All will be good then

[Docno]

Mind citing the scientific studies that back up your fact? My childhood friend ended up being a butcher. I never felt worried around him ... great guy. Also note that he did not kill the animals -- the carcasses were delivered from the slaugterhouse to his butcher shop. So yes, I guess the animals he was dealing with were as defensless as the steak I ate for dinner last night. I respect people who choose vegetarianism on moral grounds -- they certainly have a point worth considering. But suggesting that butchers are, by virtue of their trade, prone to murder is plain ridiculous.

He was a butcher at a cattle slaughterhouse. There is no difference in murdering animals or humans.

I'm sure working in a slaughterhouse seeing it everyday and probably slaughtered too , this was second nature for him.

Being a butcher already makes him a murderer , now only with the woman killed , he will go to prison for it.

Ridiculous argument. Murder is about mindset. A soldier kills other soldiers in the context of war. That does not make him a murderer. It does not mean that every soldier who returns to society is a potential murderer. Similarly, a person who kills animals that (most of) the rest of us eat also has a certain mindset when doing their job. It is a completely different mindset from that of a person committing a murder. I can (and will) kill a cockroach, but I don't believe that makes me capable of murder (yes, cockroaches are animals). Do you? I put cockroaches in a different category from humans, and that 'allows' me (psychologically) to kill them. That categorical differentiation also prevents me from generalising this behaviour to humans. I would submit that the same is true for butchers tasked with killing pigs, cows, etc. You make a moral assertion when you say that there is "no difference in 'murdering' animals or humans". Such a statement cannot be proven empirically. However, do note that every dictionary defintion of "murder" that I could find describes it as the killing of a human or person. That creates problems for your argument.

p.s. My mother-in-law used to raise chickens and would occasionally have to kill them for food. Out of karma concerns she is now 100% vegetarian and will not even (literally) kill a cockroach. What - was she a potential murderer of humans before but not now?

Soldiers who kill people in a war doesn't make them murderers? Speaking from experience? Everyone that kills another human being, either premeditated, been ordered to do so, in self defense or perhaps as an executioner is a murderer. No difference at all. If you suggest otherwise you obviously don't respect the sacredness of life.

I don't care what you write in your defense, it's all intellectual blah blah and will never justify the killing of another human being.

Your intent is commendable but ultimatey unrealistic. And it is also intent/motive that distinguishes killing in war from murder. It almost seems that you would even classify killing in self-defense as murder.... going further along that line, I'd argue that many/most soldiers are killing in defense of themselves and their families.

Anyway, rather than quoting a subjective opinion of a single individual, let me direct you to a historical event that few are aware of... the near total destruction of the pacifist Moriori people by the warlike Maori. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people#Invasion_by_Taranaki_M.C4.81ori. Now, clearly the Maori were committing murder in this case. However, had the Moriori chosen to defend themselves, they would be 'at war' but not committing murder. Or do you believe that their fate was a better one?

[SiSePuede419]

"Thailand has become more violent, greedy and less relaxed than 20 years ago. People feel it on the streets. There is more tension.

But in your case you have only been here a few years so you don't know"

I know some toothless Grandmas that have lived in Thailand longer than you.

They're not scared, 555

[DaveinAsia]

@Docno; ran out of allowed quotes

This took 7 hours to concoct? Lol. You can do better than that Doc! Killing = murder in any case. Fate is fate. Turn the other cheek and all that jive.

Good night

Edited November 10, 2015 by DaveinAsia

[DaveinAsia]

"Thailand has become more violent, greedy and less relaxed than 20 years ago. People feel it on the streets. There is more tension.

But in your case you have only been here a few years so you don't know"

I know some toothless Grandmas that have lived in Thailand longer than you.

They're not scared, 555

Some guys like the old experienced birds without teeth, heard it's a great sensation 555

[ALFREDO]

I wonder how many people die each day from non-natural causes ? 2nd in the world for road deaths, an unusually high number of "suicides" and all manner of deaths related to drugs,drink,domestic violence and so on. It's got to be a shocking figure when totted up. Ultimately too many Thai men are just morons with no self control.

Not so shocking in comparison

Thailand on a level with USA in homicides p capita. 106th place from 216 Countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Thailand on a level with USA in suicide p capita 50+ place from 170 countries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Thailand may have only a 10% higher homicide rate compared to the USA of REPORTED homicides, but when you consider what percentage of actual homicides here are actually reported as such, I doubt the true homicide rates are at all close.

You can doubt everything - BUT that is only your own opinion - othereise you have some facts - links?

[ALFREDO]

What appeared obvious from Thai television, but not from the photo above, is that our savage of the day is not only a butcher but a katoey as well. These people are walking mental illness cases, and Thai society is full of them. That is sad, and dangerous enough, but when we must factor in the attractiveness of permissive, maipenrai Thailand to foreign sexual deviants as well, it become clear that Thailand is a particularly dangerous place.

Thai Immigration should do much more to protect its citizens from this type of foreign threat.

First your statement has a RACIST sounding.

Second Thailand's society, has so many Katoey that small percentage of foreign countries Katoeys has no affect on the society.

[freedom4life]

At least he's putting his skills to use...

[farangmick]

The authorities knew the suspect was a butcher, because none of the parts looked like a recognisable joint, sirloin, topside, brisket, arm, leg.

[ALFREDO]

What appeared obvious from Thai television, but not from the photo above, is that our savage of the day is not only a butcher but a katoey as well. These people are walking mental illness cases, and Thai society is full of them. That is sad, and dangerous enough, but when we must factor in the attractiveness of permissive, maipenrai Thailand to foreign sexual deviants as well, it become clear that Thailand is a particularly dangerous place.

Thai Immigration should do much more to protect its citizens from this type of foreign threat.

First your statement has a RACIST sounding.

Second Thailand's society, has so many Katoey that small percentage of foreign countries Katoeys has no affect on the society.

At least he's putting his skills to use...

Which are? Generalization and defamation of a minority?

[Happy Grumpy]

When the smile goes the knife is not far... beware

That's actually a Thai language proverb.

When the smiles disappear, the knives are not far away.

Quite an apt insight into genuine local culture and behavior.

[Wilsonandson]

Enjoy Loy Krathong. Urh, what a gruesome story, bet no one will be swimming to catch krathongs in those areas.

[Howitzer]

Thailand is fast becoming the pits people killing girlfriends and wives every day men going round in gangs to beat-up students because their son gets beat at computer game, been here 16 years and think possibly time to move on now the Thai males are getting out of control and more violent by the day.

well except in this case the murderer is laotian not thai and the victim is a myanmar national.

[Howitzer]

Me too, after 20 years in Thailand I feel it's time to move away.

Too violence in the ex land of smile

Just curious.... 20 years ago did you have access to social media in which almost every single violent crime across the country is reported in glorious detail along with half-page colour photos and streamed CCTV videos?

Here's a perfect example: My mother spent the last 30 years of her life in a huge retirement community where almost NOTHING ever happened. She spent her time watching New Jersey News Channel where 70% of all stories were of murder, rape, beatings, child abuse, crashes, etc. She was perpetually terrified that a drug crazed lunatic bent on mayhem would come crashing through the door. Not a good way to spend the last third of her life.

If you haven't read Steven Pinker's "The Better Angels Of Our Nature" try it if you can get it, it completely changed my perspective on this issue and has thousands of scholarly references to back up his conclusions.

Brilliant book - made a big impact on me too. Despite all the nastiness we see on the 6 o'clock news every night, we are actually quite fortunate to be living in these times (so long as we're not living in Syria, etc.). Of course, individual societies (like Syria again) can take a step back in terms of violence, but as a species we have become gradually less and less violent since the early days of civilisation. Another excellent book that has some relevance here is Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. He talks about cognitive errors we are prone to making such as the 'availability heuristic' in which we estimate the likelihood of something on the basis of how easily we can recall instances of it. So because I can easily recall several instances of foreigners being killed by Thais (from reading this site), I'm prone to over-estimating how likely such an event is, especially as I don't have any relevant baseline data (how many foreigners are in the country at any one time, the comparitive frequency with which Thais are killed by Thais, etc etc).

thanks for this. Now i know what to call it.