French Islamic community fears backlash following Paris attacks

[cdnvic]

Seriously, I wasn't kidding. Next post I have to delete, the poster is going with it.

[Linky]

It is imperative that the French government (and Western governments in general) protect their Muslim citizens and residents against the type of hatred that some members here express. The hatred is what ISIS wants. ISIS wants division, ISIS wants Muslims in Europe to feel ostracised and to experience hatred against them, so that those Muslims become disgruntled and turn to ISIS.

All the rednecks that fall for the propaganda and spill bile and actual violence against Muslims are playing into ISIS's hands. Thanks, rednecks, you are assisting ISIS, which is treasonous.

The answer your asertation that there is hatred expressed towards the Moslem communities lies within the Moslem communities themselves. If they stay passive and do not report unusual/extremist behavour/attitudes then they are colluding passively to the growth of the cancer within the Moslem world. It is probably not HATRED as you liberal PC people say, but a fearful reaction to a possible infectious desease (terrorism). I personally do not HATE any particular Moslem, but I cannot trust them anymore, and wish they would remove themselves from my society so that I need not have to be constantly aware of my travelling companions and the people in my environment. In the UK we had a problem/war with the IRA in various forms for a long time. The general public developed an awareness for unusual behavior and were aware of the possibility of carnage within their midst. I personally was very wary of anyone with Irish connections, paranoia?, maybe, survival instinct , certainly. You have Ebola, your are isolated, as are all those that you came into contact with. You have Muslim terrorists, you are isolated, until it is clear that you are not infected. So if Moslems take offence, yet again, at the reaction of the populace in the society , that they choose to live, that they are in fact endangering by their passivety, tough shit. Be very thankful that the example of the last occupiers of Europe made on communities that they thought harboured freedom fighters is not visited upon the Moslem communities.

So you would advocate internment as a filter system?

Not the worst idea in the world today, but alas, much too late. Roots have already been grown in all European countries and the first fruits from these unregulated, unwanted plants are already active and beginning to cause damage.

Damage has already been done. When society, or rather the governments (democratically elected) of various societies, deem it is correct to drop borders on their individual countries and lose control of their populace, there is no going back.

Unless the self-produced problem is tackled in a different way.....................

This is where it will be interesting, as governments decide which of their policies will be binned and which emergency measures will be implemented to even begin to stem the tides that are already flowing.

As seems to be happening at the moment, re-establishing borders would be the first step.

I was not advocating internment.

I was referring to the option of taking the leaders of the communities in France between 39/45 and executing them for failing to report the freedom fighters. The Moslem community is very,very lucky that we are not going to do this.

It would beneficial to integrating in their chosen societies if these people denounced and rejected extremists, why don't they? Perhaps they don't want to integrate. In which case we need to eject them and their culture.

They do denounce and reject extremists. Isis is also the enemy of muslims, muslims are actively at war with them. But bigots refuse to acknowlege facts. They have their prejudices and no amount of facts will change that view.

[orientalsf]

Any Muslim who has expressed support for radical Islam and Jihad should pay a stiff price for it. Truly moderate Muslims should be left alone.

Ulysses I'm not sure about your statement, only because I know that the Jihad's hide among even the moderate Muslims. If they do not stand up and identify these people, then they are just a guilty as the Jihad's.

[Linky]

I live n a muslim country. I love it, its open, secular, can go to church if i want (i dont want to) can drink anything i want, have pork sandwiches, can go to the pub for my suday morning bacon and eggs.

Hope that i dont get kicked out of the country for not integrating to the muslim way. Seems they are more tolerant than some so called enlightened westerners.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Linky

[nidieunimaitre]

The problem they are all working for the same result active or not , if we want to live in peace we need to send these folks back.

Your opinion is based on a poll that you organized amongst muslims?

Always jump to the occasion to defend Islam nidienimaitre

Pretty bizarre for an 'atheist'.

I object against your use of '' when you call me an 'atheist'.

I note that YOU write islam with a capital I.

I would never do that, not for any religion.

And how was I defending islam in my post? Please explain.

[nidieunimaitre]

Just what we need:

Nutters that tell us how to defend ourselves against muslim nutters.

Wonderful.

[DisparateDan]

A good start would be to remove all those in the Calais Jungle.

I have tried some thought experiments as to how this could be done, given dictatorial powers, or within existing laws.

I have not come up with a satisfactory solution.

Any Ideas please ?

[dexterm]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

Its not a strange religion, the religion does not tell people to do that. It is crazies using the excuse of religion.

Those are not real muslims and do not follow islam.

There's a good joke with a relevant punchline doing the rounds...

An ISIS member stopped the car of a Christian couple, and asked them if they are Muslim or not?

The Christian man: I'm Muslim

ISIS member: If you are a Muslim then recite a verse of the Koran

The Christian man recites a verse from the Bible

ISIS member: Yeah! that was right, you can go.

Further down the road his wife says: "Why did you tell him that we are Muslims? if he knew you were lying he would kill both of us"

"Don't worry",answered the husband."If he knew the Koran he would not kill innocents"

ISIS is not Islam, terrorism has no religion.

[dexterm]

A good start would be to remove all those in the Calais Jungle.

I have tried some thought experiments as to how this could be done, given dictatorial powers, or within existing laws.

I have not come up with a satisfactory solution.

Any Ideas please ?

Pressure your government to stop causing conflict in the Middle East, then there won't be refugees....I am talking a century's worth of interference, not the recent air strikes.

[dcpo]

The people who demonize Muslims based on atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists have far more in common with these terrorists than the many Muslims who want to live in peace. We must recognize that this capacity for outrageous violence is not a Muslim trait but something that lurks inside all people. History has demonstrated over and over again how societies of all colours and creeds can become possessed by a collective madness and commit the most horrible crimes against humanity. The enemy is in all of us. It is the rage that tells us that the evil we do in the name of our ideals is justified.

[soomak]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

Its not a strange religion, the religion does not tell people to do that. It is crazies using the excuse of religion.

Those are not real muslims and do not follow islam.

If you ask them, they will tell you they follow the "real Islam". Each group/fraction believes it's version is the "real" one, and you thinking otherwise doesn't matter one bit.

Bottom line, Muslim extremists exist almost everywhere in Europe, and until European countries learn to deal with them harshly, terrorism will continue on a regular basis.

And BTW, its perfectly possible to live with terrorism as part of life, many countries have, but life is much much better without it.

[dexterm]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

Its not a strange religion, the religion does not tell people to do that. It is crazies using the excuse of religion.

Those are not real muslims and do not follow islam.

If you ask them, they will tell you they follow the "real Islam". Each group/fraction believes it's version is the "real" one, and you thinking otherwise doesn't matter one bit.

Bottom line, Muslim extremists exist almost everywhere in Europe, and until European countries learn to deal with them harshly, terrorism will continue on a regular basis.

And BTW, its perfectly possible to live with terrorism as part of life, many countries have, but life is much much better without it.

Extremists and fanatics with violence in their hearts exist in every world religion, but you don't stereotype an entire faith, just because of the actions of the few.

Edited November 16, 2015 by dexterm

[nidieunimaitre]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

Its not a strange religion, the religion does not tell people to do that. It is crazies using the excuse of religion.

Those are not real muslims and do not follow islam.

If you ask them, they will tell you they follow the "real Islam". Each group/fraction believes it's version is the "real" one, and you thinking otherwise doesn't matter one bit.

Bottom line, Muslim extremists exist almost everywhere in Europe, and until European countries learn to deal with them harshly, terrorism will continue on a regular basis.

And BTW, its perfectly possible to live with terrorism as part of life, many countries have, but life is much much better without it.

Bush & Blair & Paisley & Popes told us they are real christians.

Same same.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I do not say this to justify the psychopaths. Not the muslim ones, not the christian ones.

[billd766]

Those police should be investigating the crime instead.

I don't think that they are the only police available in Paris.

A certain number WILL be investigating the crime, more will be doing routine police work and quite a few more will have been drafted in from other parts of France.

[xerostar]

They are doing EXACTLY what the Koran tells them to do. It also tells them to lie in order to perpetuate the religion.

Why is the wider Muslim community not pro-active in preventing their brethren from committing these heinous crimes?

The Koran says that any Muslim will be punished with death if they even contemplate ratting on their brothers.

So they do nothing and feel totally justified because it's written in their stupid book of rules.

They are not free to interpret the book as they like for fear of retribution to themselves and their families.

If you can be stoned to death for adultery then going to the cops in order to expose extremists would definitely be inviting trouble.

[Linky]

The day before the Paris attack ISIS comitted a terrorist attack elsewhere. 43 people killed, 239 injured. A very brave young man tackled a second suicide bomber to the ground.

Where was the outrage?

It happened in Beirut.

[Opl]

I'd love to see an hommage

like Sydney's Opera's

or Firenze -Italy

or San Francisco

.... I'd love to see an hommage coming from countries claiming Islam is a religion of peace.

SEE MORE http://phototrend.fr/2015/11/photos-hommage-monde-attentats-paris/

Edited November 16, 2015 by Opl

[geriatrickid]

It is imperative that the French government (and Western governments in general) protect their Muslim citizens and residents against the type of hatred that some members here express. The hatred is what ISIS wants. ISIS wants division, ISIS wants Muslims in Europe to feel ostracised and to experience hatred against them, so that those Muslims become disgruntled and turn to ISIS.

All the rednecks that fall for the propaganda and spill bile and actual violence against Muslims are playing into ISIS's hands. Thanks, rednecks, you are assisting ISIS, which is treasonous.

It is also imperative that the muslim community protect French and western countries and their citizens from attacks by the followers and supporters of these political and religious groups. Within the French population, the support for "extremist" muslim groups has been estimated at a minimum of between 5% and 25% depending upon the year, methodology and when the poll was taken. For example the reputable Pew measurement was that 42% of young French muslims believed that suicide bombings were justified. Scary, if one takes such a result out of context. This means that within the approximate 8% of the French population or 5 million, that somewhere between 250,000 and 1.25 million muslims have made clear their support for violent extremist groups. Even if one discounts this range to account for adolescent bravado, and petty criminal posturing, it still leaves a core group of anywhere from 25,000 to 100,000 who support violent actions. Hopefully, it also means that there is a majority of the muslim population who do not support such behaviour.

It is therefore incumbent upon those who do not agree with violence or radical views to intervene on behalf of peace and security. It is incumbent upon the muslim community to identify those who are violent or who support violence. This is the obligation of all citizens in a civil society. Now is the time for the majority of muslims in the west to fulfill their obligations and to speak out against immans who incite violence, to stop the actions of politicized mosques and to stop the members of their community who would engage in violence. The muslim community in the west as citizens of western nations has a duty to those who are not muslim.

[Humberstone]

I didn't relaize there were so many Koranic (sic??) scholars on this forum !!

I come from a predominantly Christian country and cannot recite lines of scripture from the Bible and don't even know all the 10 commandments.

I have seen some incredibly tedious discussions on the YouTube (yes very sad I know) where Muslim academics cannot even agree on the meaning and interpretation of the Koran or the Hadiths and how these are applied to Muslims,yet posters on TVF seem to know how with absolute certainty. Incredible !!

[Linky]

I'd love to see an hommage

like Sydney's Opera's

or Firenze -Italy

or San Francisco

.... I'd love to see an hommage coming from countries claiming Islam is a religion of peace.

SEE MORE http://phototrend.fr/2015/11/photos-hommage-monde-attentats-paris/

Sorry, im still trying to find the flag hommage of Lebanon for the terrorist attack the day before Paris.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stick to the topic.

[Opl]

Sorry Linky , you are right, I should add : I'd love to see an hommage coming from countries claiming Islam is a religion of peace , for Paris as well as for Beirut attacks.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Opl

[DisparateDan]

Here is a woman sticking it to 'em. Her book "Infidel" is an eye opener as well.

Edited November 16, 2015 by DisparateDan

[Usernames]

The day before the Paris attack ISIS comitted a terrorist attack elsewhere. 43 people killed, 239 injured. A very brave young man tackled a second suicide bomber to the ground.

Where was the outrage?

It happened in Beirut.

I suppose that if terrorist bombings were not an unusual occurrence in Paris, we would become numb to them. And that day may be coming sooner than the French want to think.

[nidieunimaitre]

A good start would be to remove all those in the Calais Jungle.

I have tried some thought experiments as to how this could be done, given dictatorial powers, or within existing laws.

I have not come up with a satisfactory solution.

Any Ideas please ?

Send them home to a well paid job?

[nidieunimaitre]

Here is a woman sticking it to 'em. Her book "Infidel" is an eye opener as well.

This woman was a politician.

In Holland (yes !).

I sympathise with her, but I do not quite trust her.

Do some googling on her.

[Steely Dan]

I do find wallowing in self-pity somewhat distasteful considering all the dead have likely not even been buried yet. If Muslims really feared a backlash then perhaps marching in large numbers in solidarity with the murdered would help, so would informing the police about everyone they suspected of extremist sympathies.

[Steely Dan]

A good start would be to remove all those in the Calais Jungle.

I have tried some thought experiments as to how this could be done, given dictatorial powers, or within existing laws.

I have not come up with a satisfactory solution.

Any Ideas please ?

one thing is for sure imho, there are no liberal solutions. I would suggest internment of all known radical sympathizers and perhaps mass deportation.

[h90]

The Muslim community has a self made problem,they don't integrate,wont integrate, they bring the middle east with them. I have known Turks in Germany, third generation who were born there, went to school there and work there and yet they speak German with a Turkish accent.

So you mean middle east muslims dont integrate. Thats not the same as muslims dont integrate. They do

yeah I see these well integrated Muslims sit with the native people in the pub drinking a beer and eating some pork, while their daughter is joking around with some male kids .....

[Baerboxer]

It is imperative that the French government (and Western governments in general) protect their Muslim citizens and residents against the type of hatred that some members here express. The hatred is what ISIS wants. ISIS wants division, ISIS wants Muslims in Europe to feel ostracised and to experience hatred against them, so that those Muslims become disgruntled and turn to ISIS.

All the rednecks that fall for the propaganda and spill bile and actual violence against Muslims are playing into ISIS's hands. Thanks, rednecks, you are assisting ISIS, which is treasonous.

Of course. All terrorists organizations attempt to stir up hatred and bigotry to drive more recruits and ensure even the most reasonable people are persuaded to their cause.

It would be horrendous if their was an indiscriminate back lash against all Muslims in Europe.

However, the time has arrived when Europeans countries must ensure that Muslims obey the law, the law of the country they live in. If the openly defy the law, try to impose Sharia law or create no go zones, then they must be dealt with. Pandering to Muslim demands for more Islamification has to stop. Any Muslim who does not want to obey the law, respect the host country culture, people and religions should be free to leave at their own expense. Those who wish to stay should be free to practice their religion of choice but not ram it down others throats, or force others to follow their views.

In the UK, Islamic groups try to impose Sharia Law in some places, infiltrate school governor boards to push Islamic views, create no go zones, and have been found to host groups of perverts preying on non Muslim girls. The police and prosecutors have been reluctant to do much about it, very lenient and tolerant and claim it's all in the interests of the big picture community relations. Crap. That will be just as divisive unless they start to take action to enforce the laws fairly, equally and without bias regardless of race, religion or any other factor.

Europeans are also likely to react to ISIS, in the way ISIS would like, and the authorities are doing bugger all about it. Their inaction makes it worse.