Contractor Reading My Emails...

[khall64au]

I work on a freelance basis and one of my (farang) client's has been entering my email sub- account, reading my messages and over-riding instructions to various staff and sales contractors. I find this highly offensive. Is this normal in Thailand ?

[Maestro]

I work on a freelance basis and one of my (farang) client's has been entering my email sub- account, reading my messages and over-riding instructions to various staff and sales contractors. I find this highly offensive. Is this normal in Thailand ?

Are you asking if it is normal for a farang client in Thailand of a freelance worker to read the email sub-account of the freelancer?

If you give your client the password to your email sub-account, I guess he can read it from wherever he is in the world, not just if he is in Thailand.

And after having given your client access to your email account, why should you be surprised that he reads your email? Didn’t you give him that access for the purpose that he should read your mail?

--------------

Maestro

Edited October 8, 2006 by maestro

[udon]

Why on earth would you give anyone the password to yr email account?

[khall64au]

It is an account set up by him within his company - which I contract to. I was issued a password by them but didn't expect that my mail would be scrutinised. Shows a lack of integrity as far as I am concerned. Just wondered whether other companies run this way. That's all!

[britmaveric]

Well always assume email is being read by your firm - least this is my perspective as an IT person. As for being unethical I'd say yes, perhaps sending email via another account?

[sting01]

Well always assume email is being read by your firm - least this is my perspective as an IT person. As for being unethical I'd say yes, perhaps sending email via another account?

Unethical? I disagree, that is one of the duty of a sys admin to do so. There is security concern for anything who enter in a private network. What can be unethical is too take advantage of what you read. This is why no sys admin will not do it manually (any way how he could do) but use progs to do it (somewhat like the banned words for a forum). There tons of good prog who do that, even change words or strings if they were considered as dangerous (using the words muderer, Bush, and Bin LAden in mail can be considered as dangerous by some firms and by so stripped by a random string .... that is an exemple given for understanding)

If you can proove they entered in your sub account, and modified/altered communication send or/and received by you, you can sue them. You can also report to APNIC, if the offense is bad enought their records in the DNS can be permanently deleted (mean it will, and further demand will be refused). But you have to be sure it was made with the will to harm you or your business, and not a side effect of a new security policy that was wrongly implemented (sys admin get drunk in sukkhumvit the night before, and by so implemented the policy while having an hangover).

[Crossy]

Examining email either manually or automatically is fairly normal in our modern 'trusting' world.

However, actually modifying mail or acting upon its content (when said content is not detrimental to the company) is decidedly bad form, not sure what you can do about it though, apart from using an external provider.

[GuestHouse]

Another issue is the reading of incomming emails.

You, I or any of us may sign a contract that gives our employers the right to read our emails, my contract gives that right to my employers. - I accept that as being part of my employment and reasonable safeguard given the nature of my work.

An employer can not argue that any such agreement extends to incoming email since the person sending an email is not party to the contract and therefore has rights of privacy.

Employers have argued in court that the email account is for business, the counter arguement and the one accepted by courts is that our email addresses are in the public domain therefore any can send an email in the same manner that we speak together on the phone of face to face, and as such that communication is subject to privacy rights.

---

On a more specific note I would be asking a couple of questions regarding the interference.

Has the person reading these emails, and overriding the instructions you are given got the authority to do so?

Who or what gives him that authority?

If he has, why is he choosing to act in the manner he is?

If he's sending out emails from your account then he may verywell be committing the offense of false reprentation. Regardless of his rights to read your mail, false representation is a serious criminal offense in Thailand.

It is at the very least something that ought to be brought to the attention of his manager.

Such action in the organization I work in would warrant instant dismissal.

[khall64au]

Another issue is the reading of incomming emails.

You, I or any of us may sign a contract that gives our employers the right to read our emails, my contract gives that right to my employers. - I accept that as being part of my employment and reasonable safeguard given the nature of my work.

An employer can not argue that any such agreement extends to incoming email since the person sending an email is not party to the contract and therefore has rights of privacy.

Employers have argued in court that the email account is for business, the counter arguement and the one accepted by courts is that our email addresses are in the public domain therefore any can send an email in the same manner that we speak together on the phone of face to face, and as such that communication is subject to privacy rights.

---

On a more specific note I would be asking a couple of questions regarding the interference.

Has the person reading these emails, and overriding the instructions you are given got the authority to do so?

Who or what gives him that authority?

If he has, why is he choosing to act in the manner he is?

If he's sending out emails from your account then he may verywell be committing the offense of false reprentation. Regardless of his rights to read your mail, false representation is a serious criminal offense in Thailand.

It is at the very least something that ought to be brought to the attention of his manager.

Such action in the organization I work in would warrant instant dismissal.

He OWNS the company - and have since found out that he reads ALL incoming and outgoing emails from company user accounts. Was not a case of false representation - more like Big Brother intercepting intra-office mail and dictating from cyber-space!! All other mail is read and digested...

[GuestHouse]

Well simple, give him something worth reading.

And find another job, life's too short to take sh1t.

[redrus]

Out of order but, what can you do especially if he owns the company.

Suppose all you can do is raise the subject and, try not to upset the applecart if, you want to keep the contract....

redrus

[khall64au]

Well simple, give him something worth reading.

And find another job, life's too short to take sh1t.

Done...!!!

[redrus]

Well simple, give him something worth reading.

And find another job, life's too short to take sh1t.

Done...!!!

LOL, good on ya Khall....

redrus

[Casanundra]

Unless you have specifically signed a contract agreeing to the fact that he can read company e-mails AND that he has notified you that your e-mails could be read then he is breaking both Thai and international privacy laws...

In Thailand under the actual Constitution of 1997 the Right to Privacy is recognized in Article 34 and reads as follows:

"A person’s family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy shall be protected."

In addition to that by reading e-mails he could actually be contravening the codes of the Official Information Act , B.E. 2540 and the Telegraph and Telephone Act, B.E.  2477 but without looking at both these laws in greater detail then i cannot tell you how they could cover you.

Unfortunately Thailand does not as yet have any data protection law to help you on this.

Having said all of that blurb however, you are in thailand and to be honest if you wanted all of that western big brother carp in your life then you wouldn't be here in the first place so I would be off with two fingers in the air getting my priorities in order.

[thaihome]

Since he owns the company and is paying for the e-mail system isn't it his e-mail and he is just letting you use it for free?

To think you have some sort of privacy rights on a privately owned system to which you have been given access as part of employment is ludicrous, anywhere in the world

TH

[Casanundra]

Since he owns the company and is paying for the e-mail system isn't it his e-mail and he is just letting you use it for free?

To think you have some sort of privacy rights on a privately owned system to which you have been given access as part of employment is ludicrous, anywhere in the world

TH

Rubbish! I am not going to go into the issues of privacy here around the world (sharing passenger information with the USa for example) but let me put what you have implied as an analogy that you may consider in the same light. using your logic, if you go into a persons house and then use his facilities that he has provided because it is his house (i.e. the toilet) you are by such an action (using your logic again) given away your rights to privacy to pee in privacy and as such he now can touch you, look at you, explore you and violate you because you have given away your rights by simply using the facilities he has provided. I know this is an absrud analogy but when you take privacy back to its fundamental roots and read the 4th amendment and other legal statutes you will see that the right for privacy extends to all aspects of our lives and in a modern age information is an integral aspect of that. You don't give away your rights to privacy just because you use someone elses facilities - that's even more ludicrous and when you think that information means control and when you lose control then that means you lose the right to live the way you want to live, so why would you want someone outside of your own world to influence it such a way. That is the essence of privacy laws and the protection it provides.

The USA gets passenger info from every flight and that includes credit card details. let me ask, who will be the first to shout 'fowl' when their credit card gets abused as a consequence of someone passing the details on via an airline? Perhaps using your logic we should assume that it was fair for them to abuse the credit card just because you dared to use their airplane in the first place.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Casanundra

[thaihome]

Since he owns the company and is paying for the e-mail system isn't it his e-mail and he is just letting you use it for free?

To think you have some sort of privacy rights on a privately owned system to which you have been given access as part of employment is ludicrous, anywhere in the world

TH

Rubbish! I am not going to go into the issues of privacy here around the world (sharing passenger information with the USa for example) but let me put what you have implied as an analogy that you may consider in the same light. using your logic, if you go into a persons house and then use his facilities that he has provided because it is his house (i.e. the toilet) you are by such an action (using your logic again) given away your rights to privacy to pee in privacy and as such he now can touch you, look at you, explore you and violate you because you have given away your rights by simply using the facilities he has provided. I know this is an absrud analogy but when you take privacy back to its fundamental roots and read the 4th amendment and other legal statutes you will see that the right for privacy extends to all aspects of our lives and in a modern age information is an integral aspect of that. You don't give away your rights to privacy just because you use someone elses facilities - that's even more ludicrous and when you think that information means control and when you lose control then that means you lose the right to live the way you want to live, so why would you want someone outside of your own world to influence it such a way. That is the essence of privacy laws and the protection it provides.

The USA gets passenger info from every flight and that includes credit card details. let me ask, who will be the first to shout 'fowl' when their credit card gets abused as a consequence of someone passing the details on via an airline? Perhaps using your logic we should assume that it was fair for them to abuse the credit card just because you dared to use their airplane in the first place.

TH

[Tornado]

I set up email accounts for my staff. I read all of them as I think it is good business sense. Your business is only as good as the staff you employ and you need to know all correspondance is done correctly and within the guidelines you have set for them.

I would say this normal K

[Totster]

I would have no problem with an employer reading my emails sent/recieved using a company account, but I do think that if they intend to do so, then it should be made clear when the account is created and given to you.

In reality.. even if it is not made clear, when using a company account always be aware that they are able to do this.. and therefore probably would.

totster

[Tornado]

I would have no problem with an employer reading my emails sent/recieved using a company account, but I do think that if they intend to do so, then it should be made clear when the account is created and given to you.

In reality.. even if it is not made clear, when using a company account always be aware that they are able to do this.. and therefore probably would.

totster

I agree tots..... I made it clear from the out set.

[Gary A]

It's pretty simple, there are only two rules;

Rule number one is that the boss is the boss!!!!!!!!!!

Rule number two is if you don't believe the boss is the boss, refer back to rule number one.

Problem solved.

[britmaveric]

Like I said previously, not my email - assume everything is being monitored. I only use it for business purposes, and anything personal I use personal accounts.

[soic]

Not saying her situation is acceptable, but y'all should be thankful you're not here. Let's see... Our company emails, personal emails, cellphones, land phones, handheld radios and the data on our company computer is monitored, we have to assume by the bad guys as well as the good guys. We can't even refer to "What I did today" with any type of specific detail. We've had some people dismissed for even being listed on a string of addresses, on a "questionable" email. Imagine trying to explain to a prospective employer... "I was fired because my name was in a distro list of an email that contained a photo that offended somebody." One of my former colleagues is in that position now. He didn't even forward the email, he was just on a list of recipients.

I realize that my location and duties are quite different than most, but it could be worse. We always need to go into a situation with our eyes wide open and expect the worst; I'd rather be surprised by something not being as bad as I thought....

[Gerry290]

when I had a large staff in Ireland, I had an IT Policy contract to be signed as part of the job contract.

and it started all emails were the property of the company, and could be check or read at any time without notice, as all web surfing would be checked on a regular basis.

I never bothered checking the web surfing for near a year, then one day I decided, and found the most trusted staff member, whom I was grooming to be the team leader, was spending hours looking at the most vile of porn when he was supposed to be working, or when he was on a phone call.

So he got a warning. lucky he did not get the sack.

[Dakhar]

I am sorry to hear about this situation.... but I am surprised that the OP is surprised.

While at work, here or in the US, I maintained 100% safe comp. & E.mail usage. I am no saint, and there are none to begin with. But at work, never give any one amunition. I once had a letter that I wrote viewed by some secretaries.

The letter was meant to be among proffessionals regarding maintaining some CEU's. The letter was written informally was not meant to be a "formal" letter... it was just strictly for fast communication.

Now I have never claimed to be an English proffessor, and I know my English skills stink, along with my spelling. But these secretaries accessed my e-mail, corrected the letter that I had written to a colegue that was work related, and on the "up & up." After correcting the letter, and pointing out all of my various gramar and spelling errors, they handed the letter to my boss.

My boss never said a word to me about it, the secretaries sure did. They wanted to rub my nose into things. Lets just say, these people are still secretaries, and me.... well now I work because I want to, not because I have to.

[solo siam]

Since he owns the company and is paying for the e-mail system isn't it his e-mail and he is just letting you use it for free?

To think you have some sort of privacy rights on a privately owned system to which you have been given access as part of employment is ludicrous, anywhere in the world

TH

Thats a strange way to think of it, considering none of us "owns" the internet or the phonelines etc... would you also find it appropriate for the local TOT guys to listen in to your calls to your wife and family?

What about your post? Would you find it acceptable that the postman opens and reads your mail, seeing as you don't "own" the postal system. What about Microsoft employees sitting round laughing about your emails, on their privatley owned hotmail system, or deleting/changing your email as they see fit?

I'm not sure "Paying for an email system" for an employee allows you to read all his personal data, I mean how much does a Pop3 address cost? 50 cents a month?

[thaihome]

Since he owns the company and is paying for the e-mail system isn't it his e-mail and he is just letting you use it for free?

To think you have some sort of privacy rights on a privately owned system to which you have been given access as part of employment is ludicrous, anywhere in the world

TH

Thats a strange way to think of it, considering none of us "owns" the internet or the phonelines etc... would you also find it appropriate for the local TOT guys to listen in to your calls to your wife and family?

What about your post? Would you find it acceptable that the postman opens and reads your mail, seeing as you don't "own" the postal system. What about Microsoft employees sitting round laughing about your emails, on their privatley owned hotmail system, or deleting/changing your email as they see fit?

I'm not sure "Paying for an email system" for an employee allows you to read all his personal data, I mean how much does a Pop3 address cost? 50 cents a month?

See the replies from people that actually have employees and give them e-mail accounts. Welcome to the real world...

TH

[Gerry290]

if it is my company, I own the computer system and I am paying for the email service, and paying the staff to work...not send personal emails, jokes, or big attachments to clog up the system or surf the web.

Do you know under EU law, if an employee lood at Kiddie porn on a work system, the employer can be charged with the offence????

There are software companies who sell packages to prevent this from happening.

So on my time and my computers network, long web surfacing, or extensive personal emailing is not allowed, and we will check out your files too.

Now we do not mind a quick look at the news or sport or booking a flight at lunch time or before work, or a quick email to the wife....other than that.... your in breach of the IT policy you signed as part of your contract of employment, and can get an offical warning.

Internet is the greatest waster of staff time that empolyers are paying for, and should not be abused.

If you want to mess a round on the net, do it at home in the evening when your finished work ...simple as that.

[LaoPo]

Let me be honest.

The way Khall describes it is that she uses an email-account from the company she works (parttime) for.

BEFORE Internet (and email) existed staff/people wrote letters and there were fials full of business-documents and letters.

These fials were open fials (to the 'bosses') and could be opened anytime by them.

So, Khall, I wouldn't make a too big of a point here.

If, however, he changes (some items) anything you wrote WITHOUT consulting or telling you, I would say there is a kind of mistrust by him towards you.

If it's a journalistic article (and written by you) and he changes the content wouldn't it be normal if he discusses that with you?

LaoPo

[Casanundra]

You are all still missing the point as it contravenes current privacy laws and the only way around this is to inform the staff that their e-mail may be read if sent over a company network and get them to sign as agreeing to it.

If you fail to inform your staff and get them to sign as agreeing and then subsequently pull them up on an e-mail they may have sent then you are leaving yourself wide open for infringment of the privacy laws and data protection act.