Is Thailand loosing its charm?

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Crazy chef 1]

I guess older people come to dislike change wherever they live.

That is an oversimplification in my opinion. I am getting older (61) and change has never been a problem for me.

I should have put the word 'some' in there.

And modernisation,innovation or globalisation is not ALWAYS positive...

.. and globalisation will destroy generations around the globe. just a fact. all in name of the progress!

Honestly I think it will destroy the human mankind...because the western approach is wrong!!! If I choose to live in a different culture I have to adapt and respect the respective culture and support myself,if not: good bye...at least this Thailand got right...

[charmonman]

I guess older people come to dislike change wherever they live.

That is an oversimplification in my opinion. I am getting older (61) and change has never been a problem for me.

I should have put the word 'some' in there.

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

[sirineou]

Is Thailand loosing it's charm?

I guess it depends on what one considers charming. for some it is loosing it's charm for others it is becoming more charming.

[brewsterbudgen]

Thailand's charm is loose enough.

[Crazy chef 1]

Thailand's charm is loose enough.

What you mean is its moral...

[SoiBiker]

Some funny stuff here. Thailand has changed in the last 40 years? Show me somewhere that hasn't. And as for the smart phone comments - you know they have those everywhere now, right?

[villagefarang]

Thailand's charm is loose enough.

What you mean is its moral...

I think he was making a little joke about the misspelling in the topic title. It should have been losing instead of loosing. The two words have very different meanings and lend themselves nicely to a little wordplay.

[sipi]

Thailand is still a charm, just not as much as it used to be. It is evolving as one would imagine, but it still has that aura about it.

I hope Thailand never loses it's charm.

Crazy Chef is right, it HAS lost it's charm.

My friend Sipi is always right ...naja mostly...

Lol..

For me, Northern and Central Africa has lost it's charm. Eastern and Central Europe has lost it's charm. The majority of Northern Asia has lost it's charm. Sadly there are dozens of countries I will gladly never return to.

Thailand, New Zealand and a handful of others are still charmful, for now.

But that is just my opinion. If someone wants to add Thailand to their list of charmless countries, up to them.

[villagefarang]

Bangkok has never had much appeal for me, just too large. Although it is interesting from the point of view how a city of that size can actually function effectively.

There are so many things to see and do in Thailand I doubt it will ever lose its charm for me. Away from the tourist venues, there are things to boggle the mind.

For example, the Thai representation of Hell at a temple in Phayao. Or a temple near Mae Suai ( have never seen another falang there, off the beaten track ) with a fascinating combination of Hindu gods and Buddhism. Views from Doi Mae Salong.

The biggest change appears to be mobile (cell ) phones. Particularly smartphones with cameras. Even your poorest villager in the sticks seems to have one.

Not that far off the beaten track. It is right off the 118 which is the main highway between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai.

Yes, you've nailed it. Now shhhh.

Want to see another place get ruined ? If not keep your mouth shut. Granted the majority of foreigners can give a damn about quiet places or temples. Without Full Moon Parties , Girl Bars, a bar girl to hold their hand and Burger King they are pretty helpless. Don,t expect many to wander off the Pad Thai/Banana Pancake Trail.

I am not into the whole idea of keeping secrets. My Google+ page has over four million page views because I take pictures of beautiful places in Thailand, some well known and some not so well known. If you point people in a different direction they may just find a different path.

[ccarbaugh]

... I first came in 1973. The biggest change I've seen,

(besides a doubling of the population,) is the increase in blind nationalism-

(frequently with an air of superiority)

I observe Thais automatically assuming that I am one of the

"drunken, womanizing, disrespectful foreigners" - without judging

me on my attitude and behavior. We all (to varying degrees,) will

live up - or down - to whatever expectations others have of us.

[SoiBiker]

... I first came in 1973. The biggest change I've seen,

(besides a doubling of the population,) is the increase in blind nationalism-

(frequently with an air of superiority)

I observe Thais automatically assuming that I am one of the

"drunken, womanizing, disrespectful foreigners" - without judging

me on my attitude and behavior. We all (to varying degrees,) will

live up - or down - to whatever expectations others have of us.

I wouldn't blame the Thais for that - I'd blame all the drunk sex pests that have given us such a bad name over the years.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There was a good article in the International edition of the New York Times lately -- one that the local Thai peinter refused to print in the local edition -- reporting on how Thais these days are feeling in a funk with the bad economy, political uncertainties, etc etc. A lot of heavy stuff weighing down any "sanuk" feeling they might have. It would seem, a lot of Thais aren't feeling particularly charming these days.

Meanwhile, from the farang perspective, in the decade before I moved here, there was a country mostly at peace and seemingly on the road to modernization and advancement. But since I moved here, at least in Bangkok, there have been a couple rounds of the Army and others gun battling in the streets within walking distance of my home, a terrorist bomb blast, the flooding of the country, Thais shooting and bombing each other over politics, the burning of Bangkok, an utterly corrupt civilian government replaced with military rule and a defacto kind of martial law, censorship of the news media, and more

How exactly would you define "charm"?

Edited December 5, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Crazy chef 1]

Thailand's charm is loose enough.

What you mean is its moral...

I think he was making a little joke about the misspelling in the topic title. It should have been losing instead of loosing. The two words have very different meanings and lend themselves nicely to a little wordplay.

Thanks..as usually...

[Cypress Hill]

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

Their opinions are so thoroughly dismissable though.

Apart from one or two of the older guys on here, these people are a big part of the reason Thais see foreigners the way they do so why the hell would anyone give a toss what they think?

How totally stupid is it to pour scorn on Thais embracing consumerism after the same phenomenon has so generously lined the West's pockets over the decades. Maybe you'd prefer if they all remained on the 300 baht minimum wage?

Perhaps it isn't progress in your view but, to the Thais, your view doesn't count and long may that continue to be the case.

[DogNo1]

I still like Bangkok but the new management team at my hotel, in order to maximize the income from each room, has raised prices for long-stay residents 18% this year and proposes to raise them 10% more next year. Just today, I was quoted a price of 54,000 baht for a pair of progressive bifocal lenses. The same lenses would cost me $600 in California. It will soon be cheaper to spend the winter there or in Florida.

[aussiandrew]

I guess older people come to dislike change wherever they live.

That is an oversimplification in my opinion. I am getting older (61) and change has never been a problem for me.

It's the same for I enjoy all the changes that are going on around me when ever I am in Thailand.

[MeHere]

For me, it's definitely lost its charm and it's affordability, but that's the price we pay since globalization and the internet.

What I can't understand is why anyone would go shopping in any of the centrals, paragons etc when they are so much more expensive than shopping at home.

[TEFLKrabi]

Bangkok is not just Sukhumvit. Get out more. It hasn't changed for the bad everywhere.

[TheKnave]

... I first came in 1973. The biggest change I've seen,

(besides a doubling of the population,) is the increase in blind nationalism-

(frequently with an air of superiority)

I observe Thais automatically assuming that I am one of the

"drunken, womanizing, disrespectful foreigners" - without judging

me on my attitude and behavior. We all (to varying degrees,) will

live up - or down - to whatever expectations others have of us.

I wouldn't blame the Thais for that - I'd blame all the drunk sex pests that have given us such a bad name over the years.

There's always a DELETED who, when unable to comprehend an opposing view well enough to discuss it, pulls the 'sexpat' card. Congratulations on adding 'sex pest' to the careworn rhetoric.

And it's almost always one who came lately, can't speak or read Thai, and is relatively poorly traveled. An internet voyager...who believes that he is the only one who truly understands Thailand, and thinks everyone else's opinion is dismissible.

What childhood trauma makes these people so terrified and loathful towards sex, and so sure it's their business to criticize others?

I don't think chasing vendors away from Khlong Thom has much to do with ill-behaved skirt-chasers. It has to do with newly-enabled greed in the name of modernization. The persecution of amulet vendors at Tha Prachan, same misguided modernization, at the expense of the livelihoods of those poor people.

This and so many more examples HAVE eroded, and continue to erode Thailand's charm.

Not everyone who has a Thai girl or boyfriend is solely motivated by accessible sex. People love Thailand for many combinations and permutations of reasons. Many loved it for its peacefulness, which has, sadly, been losing ground in the last decade or two. Many loved it for its old neighborhoods and buildings, also disappearing far too quickly. There's still the food, but more and more you are struck in the face by Western fast food wherever you go.

Some people like rigidity and structure, I guess. Others are more adventurous and content to let others be.

Unfortunately, I believe for at least the short term, you've chosen well, DELETED You can have it.

[Global Guy]

I agree with the original poster. When I first moved to BKK 15 years ago, I never imagined wanting to live anywhere else. After living there a few years, then having to move back to the West but returning annually I slowly saw BKK adopt the consumerism of the West and the girls becoming more Westernized in a bad way. Throw in their fascination with Japanese and Korean culture and BKK lost its charm for me too. Now, I cannot imagine living there at all. I tried it in 2013 then moved to Jomtien, close to the beach. I avoid Pattaya as much as possible.

This has spread outside of BKK of course. I wanted to get away from the Western materialistic society so Thailand was a good match....at first. Now, 15 years later....I've been looking towards Vietnam and Cambodia as possible options as well. Cambodia seems to be where Thailand was 15-20 years ago (give or take) and Vietnam, my friends tell me who live there, somewhere in between the two.

I do have a Thai gf and we plan to marry. She's college educated with a good job at an engineering company as a sales exec. But we struggle to find balance as a couple with her obsession for her cell phones (yes two....one work and one personal phone) and Facebook, and that we even have arguments about these things drives me crazy. She's not materialistic so I'm grateful for that. But she's not a calm Thai girl like I've gone out with in the past both in Thailand and the States. She's edgy like a Western girl which makes it difficult to get a long with sometimes. I miss a more simple relationship like I've had before.

Anyway....I get what the poster is addressing and agree that at least to me, Thailand was this undiscovered part of the world that had a nice culture of kind and gentle people with a Buddhist undertone. Now, at least BKK is over run with Western influences in a bad way. I know, I know....they call it growth, progress, development. But I wanted to escape those very exact things for a quieter, more simple life. It can still be found outside of BKK, I know, but still, for once, I wish they didn't grab onto Western ways like they do. I'm not trying to blame Thais for wanting these things. I'm running away from these things and they are moving towards them. I get it.

You just have to keep moving further and further away from the larger cities to get the old way of life here.

Okay, my rambling in over....for now!

[shaggy851]

It has to me only because ive spent some time there. I like the convinience of transport and food options. But its just day to day ordinary i rarely stay in bkk for long id much prefer to head to the coast if ive got time. Its expensve is my main gripe amongst the nose in the air untouchables who look down on their fellow thai because they have a car loan and a gold chain and a tube of whitening cream.

[geronimo]

They call it progress!

[Dellie]

I never thought Thailand had any charm to begin with. Not even when I moved here many moons ago. Should add that I consider "charm" a silly and useless emotional concept though.

[Oishii]

If you look back on how your own country has modernised and changed in history, then this is exactly what is happening in Thailand.

The tourists come to see the exotic and how people in another country live, but they want to stay in modern hotels while they are here. The tourists still want to shop in the expensive shopping malls, because it's still cheaper than their own country. They visit the old markets for a short time and then toddle off to the air con mall.

There are a few tourists who want to see the 'real' Thailand and stay well away from BKK, but they still like an air con room and a western toilet with paper.

[chicowoodduck]

I don't think LOS ever had any charm.....just the same tired old farts who are not as smart as they think they are....just take a trip to Pattaya.....lol...?

[Crazy chef 1]

Couldn't even find a mom and pop shop here on phuket...replaced by 7/11or family mart...

[brewsterbudgen]

For me, it's definitely lost its charm and it's affordability, but that's the price we pay since globalization and the internet.

What I can't understand is why anyone would go shopping in any of the centrals, paragons etc when they are so much more expensive than shopping at home.

Living and working in Bangkok for 10+ years, I'm delighted by the "progress" made. More air-conditioned malls and more choice of non-Thai food makes life far more cosmopolitan. Yes, it's more expensive but then my earnings have increased too. I didn't move here expecting it to be a hardship.

[Crazy chef 1]

If you look back on how your own country has modernised and changed in history, then this is exactly what is happening in Thailand.

The tourists come to see the exotic and how people in another country live, but they want to stay in modern hotels while they are here. The tourists still want to shop in the expensive shopping malls, because it's still cheaper than their own country. They visit the old markets for a short time and then toddle off to the air con mall.

There are a few tourists who want to see the 'real' Thailand and stay well away from BKK, but they still like an air con room and a western toilet with paper.

Though following the recommendations of some posters to enjoy the modern Thailand we went yesterday to Central shopping mall and yes they are expensive...I wanted to buy a feather pillow=7990thb,pair of working shoes=2900thb and to complete my mission Mc Donald's = 560 thb...

Though for me enough experience of the modernised Thailand for a long time I guess...

Except we'll go to Tesco today...but just for a big pack mamy poko...

[kennyro]

meanwhile the rest of the world remains unchanged over the last 30 years???