White House: Donald Trump Muslim plan 'disqualifies' him from presidency

[klauskunkel]

"Earnest noted first that every president must take an oath to "preserve, protect and defend" the U.S. Constitution, and thus, he said, Trump would not qualify."

And, just what part of the US Constitution guarantees that foreigners of any stripe will be allowed into the country, Mr. "White House"?

It's the part called the First Amendment...

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

This is not about letting in "foreigners of any stripe", its about the fact that it is wrong to exclude people purely on the basis of the color of one particular stripe. You know... things like gender, age, race, RELIGION...

I get why Trump's hotheaded knee jerk reaction seems justified to some people. It's easy to fall into that kind of thinking when you see the kinds of things that are going on in the world and in your own home country. There are terrible people in the world doing terrible things, but Trump needs to think before he opens his mouth to spew this kind of rhetoric.

Categorically discriminating against Muslims by denying them entry to the US for no other reason than the fact that they are Muslim goes against everything we stand for as a country.

I'm the first to say that no country lives up to it's own PR, and the US has plenty to answer for around the world, but the rule of law we have is based on a set of principles defined in the Constitution. Given our immigrant past, the belief in that vision is the only true definition of "American". I believe that when we have shined as a nation it was because we acted according to those principles.

Now, Donald Trump... candidate for President of the US, no less... comes out with this kind of ignorant, isolationist, uninformed, fear mongering, "plan" in response to a mass shooting.

Is this the kind of thinking we can expect from President Trump? Is this his great solution? Is this his grand plan to "Make America Great Again"?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is not only unconstitutional and contrary to our most core values, but it demonstrates that he doesn't seem to realize that If we let them change the way we live and what we believe... if we let them make us so afraid that we let them take away our values... what do we have left?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is just giving them what they want... more American's afraid.. greater polarization and escalation with the west... an excuse to justify their attacks... and a recruitment tool... all rolled up in one.

I'm sure we have all been amused at one time or another at his campaign antics... everybody loves a train wreck... but I do hope that people come to their senses soon and realise that this man is simply not fit to be POTUS.

I am playing the devil's advocate here:

I think the US Constitution is valid for everyone and everything within the political boundaries of the United States. It does not include anyone or anything outside of it. Thus, when Trump says "to not let any more Muslims come to the US", it appears to me he is talking about someone who is outside the US and not a US citizen, and therefore the US Constitution does not apply to that person. If I am correct, then the White House spokesman misspoke.

[up-country_sinclair]

For months I've been saying this was going to happen. But the Trump fanboys were too busy slurping on "the Donald" to realize that he was destroying the Republican party's chances in 2016. They went on and on that they liked how he "told it like it is". Idiots.

Of course it's still a long way of, but considering how badly Trump has poisoned the brand, I don't see how any Republican can win. One thing is for sure, Donald Trump won't be moving into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in January 2017.

[willyumiii]

Unfortunately for America and the rest of the world, not being qualified to be President does not disqualify one from holding the office.

[Thaidream]

The Us Constitution is a living document- it covers everyone, every where because it is based upon a philosophy that does not discriminate based upon race. color, creed, national origin , sexual preference or age. There is no way to exclude people because they are deemed to be of a certain religion. What are you people so afraid of? Listening to the posters on TV- I am amazed at the fear emanating from you. The terrorists love you all because you are succumbing to the fear they are spreading. Do you think that only Muslim terrorists exist in the World. A white Anglo Saxon American bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed hundreds. Another American drove his airplane into the IRS Building in Austin Texas. A crazed man killed young children in a school not that long ago. The facts are that Muslim terrorists pose a small danger to America. I am more afraid of the number of mentally ill people who have access to guns than any Muslim.

[cyberfarang]

Muslim fundamentalism and fanaticism has become the greatest threat to world peace since the rise of the Axis powers during WW2, as not only do we have the enemy outside but also the enemy within, home-grown terrorists that hate us and believe we do not have the right to exist.
Leftist western leaders have sold us out and continue to sell us out. Time for all immigration from the Middle Eastern Muslim countries to cease and desist now and the illegal immigrants to be instantly deported.

Rescind the citizenships of those who go over to the enemies of our nations and enforce the treason laws that carry a life sentence in the UK and the death penalty in some countries.
No more pussy footing around, it is time to get down to business and clear this scourge of fanatical thugs from our countries.

Unlimited immigration of potential undesirables into our countries will fuel the support for ultra nationalistic right wing political parties and groups, bad for them, bad for us, no one benefits from the lack of strict immigration controls from enemy nations run by thugs. Their lands are in chaos, they will bring chaos to our countries as well.

Enoch Powell the 1960s British MP and his rivers of blood speech also went against the grain with the leftist majority at the time, but his prophecies don`t seem so far fetched now.

[chuckd]

"Earnest noted first that every president must take an oath to "preserve, protect and defend" the U.S. Constitution, and thus, he said, Trump would not qualify."

And, just what part of the US Constitution guarantees that foreigners of any stripe will be allowed into the country, Mr. "White House"?

It's the part called the First Amendment...

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

This is not about letting in "foreigners of any stripe", its about the fact that it is wrong to exclude people purely on the basis of the color of one particular stripe. You know... things like gender, age, race, RELIGION...

I get why Trump's hotheaded knee jerk reaction seems justified to some people. It's easy to fall into that kind of thinking when you see the kinds of things that are going on in the world and in your own home country. There are terrible people in the world doing terrible things, but Trump needs to think before he opens his mouth to spew this kind of rhetoric.

Categorically discriminating against Muslims by denying them entry to the US for no other reason than the fact that they are Muslim goes against everything we stand for as a country.

I'm the first to say that no country lives up to it's own PR, and the US has plenty to answer for around the world, but the rule of law we have is based on a set of principles defined in the Constitution. Given our immigrant past, the belief in that vision is the only true definition of "American". I believe that when we have shined as a nation it was because we acted according to those principles.

Now, Donald Trump... candidate for President of the US, no less... comes out with this kind of ignorant, isolationist, uninformed, fear mongering, "plan" in response to a mass shooting.

Is this the kind of thinking we can expect from President Trump? Is this his great solution? Is this his grand plan to "Make America Great Again"?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is not only unconstitutional and contrary to our most core values, but it demonstrates that he doesn't seem to realize that If we let them change the way we live and what we believe... if we let them make us so afraid that we let them take away our values... what do we have left?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is just giving them what they want... more American's afraid.. greater polarization and escalation with the west... an excuse to justify their attacks... and a recruitment tool... all rolled up in one.

I'm sure we have all been amused at one time or another at his campaign antics... everybody loves a train wreck... but I do hope that people come to their senses soon and realise that this man is simply not fit to be POTUS.

Trump has sucked all the air out of the room and you guys are gasping for breath. It's really sort of funny to listen to you Brits, Aussies, etc wail and bemoan his candidacy.

The best thing all of you could do is sit back and enjoy the ride watching the MSM implode. They simply can't handle it.

Look at the main stream media. They are as flummoxed as you all are.

Now permit me to address a tiny part of your post. You make this claim...

"It's the part called the First Amendment...

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

To put it rather bluntly, you are incorrect.

Trump is talking about keeping Muslim immigrants out of the country.

The Bill of Rights has no bearing outside the USA other than US citizens. It only applies to those immigrants actually resident in the US. Not to any potential legal resident.

Immigration rules can be set to any criteria the federal government desires. If they only want to give visas to red headed people (natural red heads of course) they can do so.

Only left handed people will be accepted on odd days in the month of February? Yep, perfectly acceptable and constitutional.

Anyway, none of this is going to happen...at least until 20 January 2017

[Lampang2]

For months I've been saying this was going to happen. But the Trump fanboys were too busy slurping on "the Donald" to realize that he was destroying the Republican party's chances in 2016. They went on and on that they liked how he "told it like it is". Idiots.

Of course it's still a long way of, but considering how badly Trump has poisoned the brand, I don't see how any Republican can win. One thing is for sure, Donald Trump won't be moving into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in January 2017.

Could be that mister Trump doesn't care that much.

He just enjoy speaking his mind in the ultimate lime light.

Always did.

[Thaidream]

A country has the right to protect its borders, however, the protection must be based upon rational thinking and long term national interest/ How would you all feel if Thailand decided that it is changing its Visa policy and limit the number of Westerners granted retirement and marriage Visas. They use the rationale that the Western lifestyle is subverting Thai culture and they need to limit the numbers to avoid any further contamination. Would you support this? What you are advocating is very similar to this.

[Usernames]

The Us Constitution is a living document- it covers everyone, every where because it is based upon a philosophy that does not discriminate based upon race. color, creed, national origin , sexual preference or age. There is no way to exclude people because they are deemed to be of a certain religion. What are you people so afraid of? Listening to the posters on TV- I am amazed at the fear emanating from you. The terrorists love you all because you are succumbing to the fear they are spreading. Do you think that only Muslim terrorists exist in the World. A white Anglo Saxon American bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed hundreds. Another American drove his airplane into the IRS Building in Austin Texas. A crazed man killed young children in a school not that long ago. The facts are that Muslim terrorists pose a small danger to America. I am more afraid of the number of mentally ill people who have access to guns than any Muslim.

The US Constitution "covers everyone, everywhere?" Don't thinks so. Pretty sure it doesn't. And yes a US president has the right to exclude an entire class of people based upon their being a threat to the US, just as Jimmy Carter did to Iranians in 1980.

[FritsSikkink]

good idea

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-retail-giant-suspends-sales-of-trump-products-amid-muslim-ban-furore-614696.html#.VmgGjLiLSUl

when he wins the election do it with the country, see how that feels like

Edited December 9, 2015 by FritsSikkink

[Usernames]

A country has the right to protect its borders, however, the protection must be based upon rational thinking and long term national interest/ How would you all feel if Thailand decided that it is changing its Visa policy and limit the number of Westerners granted retirement and marriage Visas. They use the rationale that the Western lifestyle is subverting Thai culture and they need to limit the numbers to avoid any further contamination. Would you support this? What you are advocating is very similar to this.

If Thailand did such a thing, it would be entirely up to them to do so. I wouldn't have any say at all in the matter. Although the comparison you make is an erroneous one. Trump is talking about banning muslims from entering the US, which is within the president's and congress' legal authority, not about kicking out people already resident, which is what you're saying Thailand might do. But again if Thailand wants that, it's their choice. And I hope that all of us who are here are prepared for such an eventuality. It could happen. I know I'm prepared. How about you, Thaidream?

[up-country_sinclair]

Trump is talking about keeping Muslim immigrants out of the country.

His campaign stated that he was also referring to US citizens who were "guilty" of being abroad while Muslim.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/262348-trump-calls-for-shutdown-of-muslims-entering-us

[FritsSikkink]

The Us Constitution is a living document- it covers everyone, every where because it is based upon a philosophy that does not discriminate based upon race. color, creed, national origin , sexual preference or age. There is no way to exclude people because they are deemed to be of a certain religion. What are you people so afraid of? Listening to the posters on TV- I am amazed at the fear emanating from you. The terrorists love you all because you are succumbing to the fear they are spreading. Do you think that only Muslim terrorists exist in the World. A white Anglo Saxon American bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed hundreds. Another American drove his airplane into the IRS Building in Austin Texas. A crazed man killed young children in a school not that long ago. The facts are that Muslim terrorists pose a small danger to America. I am more afraid of the number of mentally ill people who have access to guns than any Muslim.

The US Constitution "covers everyone, everywhere?" Don't thinks so. Pretty sure it doesn't. And yes a US president has the right to exclude an entire class of people based upon their being a threat to the US, just as Jimmy Carter did to Iranians in 1980.

and the Japanese in WW2 and the Germans in WW2 ( oeps a mistake)

[Thaidream]

The Us constitution covers all Americans everywhere, and residents of the United States, Countries can limit who comes into their country. There was a time when Chinese were excluded from the United States. However, it has been proven through the years that these policies are discriminatory and it is impossible to exclude people based upon religion. It would be challenged in court and never affirmed. America's current immigration policy is quite fair. Those people from countries that have unfetered terorism are not going to have an easy time coming into America. It is Europe that has the problem. Too many refugees in a limited space. If you are a citizen or resident of a country and you go abroad to fight against that very country, you have forfeited your citizenship and residency. Laws can and will be amended. This is a far cry from brandishing all Muslims as terrorists or putting people in concentration camps. This is madness people and can only lead to disaster.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Thaidream

[rjcampbe]

"Earnest noted first that every president must take an oath to "preserve, protect and defend" the U.S. Constitution, and thus, he said, Trump would not qualify."

And, just what part of the US Constitution guarantees that foreigners of any stripe will be allowed into the country, Mr. "White House"?

It's the part called the First Amendment...

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

This is not about letting in "foreigners of any stripe", its about the fact that it is wrong to exclude people purely on the basis of the color of one particular stripe. You know... things like gender, age, race, RELIGION...

I get why Trump's hotheaded knee jerk reaction seems justified to some people. It's easy to fall into that kind of thinking when you see the kinds of things that are going on in the world and in your own home country. There are terrible people in the world doing terrible things, but Trump needs to think before he opens his mouth to spew this kind of rhetoric.

Categorically discriminating against Muslims by denying them entry to the US for no other reason than the fact that they are Muslim goes against everything we stand for as a country.

I'm the first to say that no country lives up to it's own PR, and the US has plenty to answer for around the world, but the rule of law we have is based on a set of principles defined in the Constitution. Given our immigrant past, the belief in that vision is the only true definition of "American". I believe that when we have shined as a nation it was because we acted according to those principles.

Now, Donald Trump... candidate for President of the US, no less... comes out with this kind of ignorant, isolationist, uninformed, fear mongering, "plan" in response to a mass shooting.

Is this the kind of thinking we can expect from President Trump? Is this his great solution? Is this his grand plan to "Make America Great Again"?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is not only unconstitutional and contrary to our most core values, but it demonstrates that he doesn't seem to realize that If we let them change the way we live and what we believe... if we let them make us so afraid that we let them take away our values... what do we have left?

Mr. Trump's "plan" is just giving them what they want... more American's afraid.. greater polarization and escalation with the west... an excuse to justify their attacks... and a recruitment tool... all rolled up in one.

I'm sure we have all been amused at one time or another at his campaign antics... everybody loves a train wreck... but I do hope that people come to their senses soon and realise that this man is simply not fit to be POTUS.

I am playing the devil's advocate here:

I think the US Constitution is valid for everyone and everything within the political boundaries of the United States. It does not include anyone or anything outside of it. Thus, when Trump says "to not let any more Muslims come to the US", it appears to me he is talking about someone who is outside the US and not a US citizen, and therefore the US Constitution does not apply to that person. If I am correct, then the White House spokesman misspoke.

I'm fairly sure there is case law that establishes non citizens having these same rights as citizens... Just because you are visiting the US on holiday doesn't mean you are not protected by the same rights. The first amendment restricts the US government very rigidly ( eg. "shall make no law") from creating any law that breaches the first amendment rights. It doesn't matter if it is an immigration law that deals primarily with foreigners... it would be unconstitutional.

The other point is that, in my understanding of what Trump actually said, while he was not specific with details, it was implied that this would apply to ALL Muslims entering the country. Potentially including citizens, or people with resident cards, people people with existing visas, as well as new applicants.

[Usernames]

good idea

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-retail-giant-suspends-sales-of-trump-products-amid-muslim-ban-furore-614696.html#.VmgGjLiLSUl

when he wins the election do it with the country, see how that feels like

I'm glad you put this up in the thread. Because it proves once again that Donald Trump is the ONLY candidate for president willing to sacrifice personal wealth and profits for the well being of the nation. This makes him the only patriot in the room. All the rest are owned by Superpacs and the donor class. Trump is his own man, and he has repeatedly put good public policy AHEAD of his own profits. Just as your link shows

[KarenBravo]

Who cares?

Trump will never be president and even if he did somehow win, realpolitik means he wouldn't do it anyway.

We're discussing hot-air; campaign rhetoric.

Edited December 9, 2015 by KarenBravo

[Usernames]

Who cares?

Trump will never be president and even if he did somehow win, realpolitik means he wouldn't do it anyway.

We're discussing hot-air; campaign rhetoric.

Who cares? Obviously, you do. Or you wouldn't have replied to the topic.

[Thaidream]

The chances of Donald Trump becoming President are in the trillions. You have a better chance winning the Thai lottery. His statements however are playing right into the hands of ISIS. They love him!! And those that support him are also playing into the hands of the terrorists. Fear running wild.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Thaidream

[KarenBravo]

Who cares?

Trump will never be president and even if he did somehow win, realpolitik means he wouldn't do it anyway.

We're discussing hot-air; campaign rhetoric.

Who cares? Obviously, you do. Or you wouldn't have replied to the topic.

Why would I care? I'm not a US citizen.

On a public forum are you saying you only post about things you personally care about?

That's not me. Not so obvious after all, eh?

[rjcampbe]

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

This is not about letting in "foreigners of any stripe", its about the fact that it is wrong to exclude people purely on the basis of the color of one particular stripe. You know... things like gender, age, race, RELIGION...

Now permit me to address a tiny part of your post. You make this claim...

"It's the part called the First Amendment...

It begins... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." For some reason, people always seem to forget that second clause...

To put it rather bluntly, you are incorrect.

Trump is talking about keeping Muslim immigrants out of the country.

The Bill of Rights has no bearing outside the USA other than US citizens. It only applies to those immigrants actually resident in the US. Not to any potential legal resident.

Immigration rules can be set to any criteria the federal government desires. If they only want to give visas to red headed people (natural red heads of course) they can do so.

Only left handed people will be accepted on odd days in the month of February? Yep, perfectly acceptable and constitutional.

Anyway, none of this is going to happen...at least until 20 January 2017

Congress can not pass laws, ANY laws, including IMMIGRATION laws, that would violate the first amendment.

If they enacted a law that said Muslims (or Chinese, or Latino, or women, or people over 65) are not allowed to get a visa, that law would be unconstitutional.

You are talking out your ass.

[Thaidream]

I am absolutely not prepared to be kicked out of Thailand based upon someones xenophobic or bigoted opinion anymore than I am prepared to have Muslims kicked out of the United States or barred from entry based only on a religion or a fear. You people are so scared it is amazing. I am afraid if Hitler was still in power in Germany many of you would run and cower in fear. If the greatest generation- my father and your grandfather talked like you are talking today- both America and Europe would be speaking only German and Japanese. I am listening to the bellowing of cowards and fools.

[FritsSikkink]

good idea

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-retail-giant-suspends-sales-of-trump-products-amid-muslim-ban-furore-614696.html#.VmgGjLiLSUl

when he wins the election do it with the country, see how that feels like

I'm glad you put this up in the thread. Because it proves once again that Donald Trump is the ONLY candidate for president willing to sacrifice personal wealth and profits for the well being of the nation. This makes him the only patriot in the room. All the rest are owned by Superpacs and the donor class. Trump is his own man, and he has repeatedly put good public policy AHEAD of his own profits. Just as your link shows

ROFL, he didn't know this yet. He is a moron.

[Usernames]

The Us constitution covers all Americans everywhere, and residents of the United States, Countries can limit who comes into their country. There was a time when Chinese were excluded from the United States. However, it has been proven through the years that these policies are discriminatory and it is impossible to exclude people based upon religion. It would be challenged in court and never affirmed. America's current immigration policy is quite fair. Those people from countries that have unfetered terorism are not going to have an easy time coming into America. It is Europe that has the problem. Too many refugees in a limited space. If you are a citizen or resident of a country and you go abroad to fight against that very country, you have forfeited your citizenship and residency. Laws can and will be amended. This is a far cry from brandishing all Muslims as terrorists or putting people in concentration camps. This is madness people and can only lead to disaster.

The US Constitution does NOT cover Americans while they are in other countries. Those countries' laws and constitutions do. If you are operating under the assumption that the US Constitution protects you while you're in Thailand, you are soon to be in for a big surprise.

[Usernames]

I am absolutely not prepared to be kicked out of Thailand based upon someones xenophobic or bigoted opinion anymore than I am prepared to have Muslims kicked out of the United States or barred from entry based only on a religion or a fear. You people are so scared it is amazing. I am afraid if Hitler was still in power in Germany many of you would run and cower in fear. If the greatest generation- my father and your grandfather talked like you are talking today- both America and Europe would be speaking only German and Japanese. I am listening to the bellowing of cowards and fools.

Well, sorry to tell you, but it's not up to you or the US constitution whether you remain in Thailand. That's for the Thai government to decide. Keep trying.

[ggt]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...

Sir Donald is not interested in prohibiting religious practices...just stopping those who may have a hidden agenda to kill infidels from entering into America...the vetting process is suspect...has proven to be ineffective...and Mr. Trump has brought a very important issue to the discussion...

Instead of disqualifying Mr. Trump...they should dispose of the weak warrior Obama...and install Trump now...

[cyberfarang]

A country has the right to protect its borders, however, the protection must be based upon rational thinking and long term national interest/ How would you all feel if Thailand decided that it is changing its Visa policy and limit the number of Westerners granted retirement and marriage Visas. They use the rationale that the Western lifestyle is subverting Thai culture and they need to limit the numbers to avoid any further contamination. Would you support this? What you are advocating is very similar to this.

Maybe you haven`t noticed, but Thailand already limits the numbers of Westerners granted retirement and marriage Visas. We have to fulfill a criteria to stay here. None of us could emerge on Thailand`s shores or borders claiming political asylum. I suggest you try it and see how far you`ll get.

How would the Thais feel if millions of Farlang refugees with possible terrorist links started heading for the country and the neighbouring countries? No contest, no comparison.

[Dustdevil]

Democracy is always a threat to those in charge for the moment.

Are you talking about the US? The US isn't a democracy.

Cheers.

Really? You need a First Amendment and a Bill of Rights. In some European countries, slander/libel are criminal offenses and can incur prison time. (Italy and Sweden, maybe more, but I know these two have that.) In Italy, if the prosecutor doesn't like a not-guilty verdict, they just try the defendant again until they get the guilty verdict they want.

The US has a First Amendment that makes it difficult to sue anybody for defamation, in addition to enshrining freedom of speech, protects the public FROM religion in addition to guaranteeing freedom OF religion. British pundits have said they need a 1st Amendment. There is more. By the way, contrary to Commonwealth people's stereotype, Obama was elected in 2008 from grass-roots small donations raised over the internet (not corporate America).

You shouldn't lecture Americans with education on American democracy. Cheers.

[Thaidream]

I never said the US Constitution applied to me in Thailand. I also would never leave except by force if a government came to power that excluded people based upon some xenophobic or bigoted argument much the same people are espousing on this board. My point is this- if you succumb to fear and support a discriminatory immigration policy in your own countries and do nothing to stop it- you are playing into the hands of the very terrorists you want to exclude. You are cowards and bigots. History is rife with people who tried to espouse this xenophobia and the results are always a disaster. If you do not fight for what is right- no one will fight for you!!

Edited December 9, 2015 by Thaidream

[Lampang2]

Democracy is always a threat to those in charge for the moment.

Are you talking about the US? The US isn't a democracy.

Cheers.

Really? You need a First Amendment and a Bill of Rights. In some European countries, slander/libel are criminal offenses and can incur prison time. (Italy and Sweden, maybe more, but I know these two have that.) In Italy, if the prosecutor doesn't like a not-guilty verdict, they just try the defendant again until they get the guilty verdict they want.

The US has a First Amendment that makes it difficult to sue anybody for defamation, in addition to enshrining freedom of speech, protects the public FROM religion in addition to guaranteeing freedom OF religion. British pundits have said they need a 1st Amendment. There is more. By the way, contrary to Commonwealth people's stereotype, Obama was elected in 2008 from grass-roots small donations raised over the internet (not corporate America).

You shouldn't lecture Americans with education on American democracy. Cheers.

Isn't the US democracy a bit non linear?

Some votes in some states more valuable than others.

Maybe for some county's / districts also.

Complex.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Lampang2