Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[Johpa]

This story is NOT going to disappear, and I for one will NOT rest until the real perpetrators are brought to justice.

This story will disappear just as the story of the Canadian shot by the policeman in Pai disappeared, and just as the story about the murdered Brit girl in Chiang Mai disappeared. If this story had occurred in Pattaya nobody would have ever heard about it apart from perhaps a brief mention buried in the local press about a murder-suicide. A year from now nobody is going to remember and the reggae music and the sweet smell of ganja will continue to attract young tourists to the islands. Chaiyo!

[lucky11]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

You are such a hoot!

Why did they retract their confession, the moment, they had lawyers and help on their side, instead a "safe house" and some guys with gasoline, lighters and plastic bags, to put over their heads?

Well...it remains a mystery!

I hate having to repeat myself, right, ready?.............the confessions PLAYED NO PART in the court proceedings. It was not used by the prosecutors or the defence, as the confession (and retraction of) was dismissed as evidence from the trial by the judge - it is irrelevant!! do you understand this?

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo have access to TV in their cell so encouraged by seeing protests underway in support of overturning their convictions.

[DJVillain]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo asked our team to give the following messages to the general public today during our prison visit...

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

'Thank you everyone who has supported us. We are innocent and we were not involved in this horrific crime, we didn't kill. We want freedom.'

• Follow

  Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

  'We are confident the truth of this case will come out during the appeals and we are confident we will eventually be released on appeal.'

You didn't expect they would tweet something in the line of, thanks for your support but the evidence against us caught up on our story, did you?

Lots of different colour rectangles of paper with the king of Thailands head on it in denominations of 20, 50, 100, 500 and 1000 would not count as 'evidence' in any other country...

[lucky11]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries

I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating....

He did have bruising to his chest and a injury to his wrist, the truthers like to say it couldn't be the B2 who did it because they had no injuries the fact is ZL did .

it doesn't matter if physical injury was evident or not - it is a stupid and pointless argument, there are many ways to torture people without leaving a mark and physical injuries can be self inflicted

what is important here is that they did not get legal council when they were detained, then it is impossible to say who is telling the truth about torture or so called confessions, if they had been granted proper legal representation then none of this discussion would be taking place

The fact is nobody knows what went on during the questioning, none of them can be trusted to tell the truth so any results from such a process are basically invalid

Like banging my head on a brick wall!!

[Tom Cahill]

That's quite a high percentage. Let's just assume you are correct for a minute.

So what you are saying is that Buddhism is the state religion of Thailand but it's not followed when it gets in the way of their earthly policy?

No adherent of a religion, which very much includes buddhism, will follow its tenets when they work against his self interest - applies 99.9% of the time.

Maybe then we could conclude that also here as in most secular states religion is not as important as they make it out to be.

Just a very well working method to keep the masses in line even though all layers of society uphold this extraordinary level of piousness.

Just generalizing here and not saying that this counts for everyone.

I'm sure there are millions of Thais who truly are pious, honest and just in their daily lives but at the same time there are millions who are only Buddhist because of birth and who don't uphold any of the five moral precepts that everyone who calls him or herself a Buddhist should live by.

All Buddhists should refrain from:

• harming living things.
• taking what is not given.
• sexual misconduct.
• lying or gossip.
• taking intoxicating substances eg drugs or drink.

____________________________________________________________________
It's Alestair Crowley Buddism here I think. Do what you wilt. Most of the ones who're really into it are criminals who have devils tattooed all over them. I think it's way off what Buddism's meant to be anywhere else, and then there's idolic worship and the worship of trinkets for "power". That's not what it's meant to be about. Half killing animals they're planning on eating, etc., etc.---none of which is allowed anywhere else. They're the least Buddist people I've ever met. They make me laugh sometimes. They didn't realize Tibet's a Buddist country. Could it really get any more un-Buddist in any way?

On your five points. Yes, they all do that every day without fail.

[sambum]

Mon front row in the crime scene. @10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaiAXSuvW9g

Mon stepping over Police barrier to enter a closed crime scene:

Yes, despite not being a policeman Mon is all over this, allowed to go wherever he wants and oh dear he's helping to contaminate the scene.

But wait, didn't the policeman testify in court that he found the clothes all neatly stacked up, yet here they are scattered all over the place, and after the police have cordoned off the area. Someone's telling big fat porkies.

For one reason or another the judge only ever had one option open to him for a verdict I feel, regardless of the most farcical prosecution ever witnessed. I would wager it was driven be fear rather than money.

I seem to remember that the replacement head of the RTP said that because of a shortage of police on Koh Tao, some locals were enlisted to "help"!

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

Edited December 28, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[Darkknight666]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

If there were proper Chain Of Custody documents to verify that the Semen was in fact found and did in fact belong to either of the B2 the case would have been closed a very long time ago, yet it isn't. There are irregularities in those documents that cast significant doubt on the collection/handling of said evidence. Also, if they had the DNA from within a victim I imagine the B2 would be smart enough to admit guilt and have their sentences reduced. The monster(s) who killed David and Hannah aren't Burmese.

[jing jing]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

[lucky11]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

[lucky11]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

I don't want to follow him - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

[DJVillain]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

Ok Lucky

Tell you what... Give me a sample of the semen from the body and I can do a DNA test on it...

Then give me a sample of your sperm, and I will match that with the DNA from the body flawlessly...

How you ask?

Why my good man, its very simple... I switch the labels and tell everyone who is involved and that may have a conscience to shut their mouths 'or else' because its 'just some person called Lucky' and not a rich and powerful gangsters son...

[Darkknight666]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

Yes, in a place where "Mai pen rai" is the norm.

I'll be sure to see how lucky you're feeling after the appeals.

[DM07]

Like banging my head on a brick wall!!

I like that!

Please go ahead with this great idea, at once!

Edited December 28, 2015 by DM07

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

I don't want to follow him - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

can you kindly get back in your box ???????

Edited December 28, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[smedly]

here's another interesting thought

lets assume that this was a stitch up and all those involved were paid either to take part or keep their mouths shut -

if anyone - who is most likely to spill the beans and tell all

My money would be on the roti seller, very likely he has family in Myanmar and would like to return there at some point, he is likely not welcome at the moment, he likely has been handsomely paid or I am giving him to much credit and in fact knows absolutly nothing.

anyway if indeed he was a part of the suspected stitch up and was aware of certain things that might be highly incriminating my money would be on him to spill the beans especially if he wanted to return home

Is he still selling roti's ? is he still on Koh Tao, is he still in Thailand ? is he still alive ? lol

Edited December 28, 2015 by smedly

[uptheos]

1,500 replies, wow.

When are you all going to form a protest march, or write a petition with your names on to the big chief?

[lucky11]

Leave my semen out of it!! You are not touching it.

[asiamaster]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

[lucky11]

here's another interesting thought

lets assume that this was a stitch up and all those involved were paid either to take part or keep their mouths shut -

if anyone - who is most likely to spill the beans and tell all

My money would be on the roti seller, very likely he has family in Myanmar and would like to return there at some point, he is likely not welcome at the moment, he likely has been hansomely paid or I am giving him to much credit and in fact knows absolutly nothing.

anyway if indeed he was a part of the suspected stich up and was a aware of certain things that might be highly incriminating my money would be on him to spill the beans especially if he wanted to return home

Is he still selling roti's ? is he still on Kog Tao, is he still in Thailand ? is he still alive ? lol

Assumptions are also irrelevant and not submissable in a court of law.

[MorristheRunt]

< snip > and I have followed this tragic event from day one.

As who?

Well if it makes the front page of the New York Times, headlines on the BBC, is a major topic with AP...I would say there is just a little interest

[Lancashireman]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

Ok Lucky

Tell you what... Give me a sample of the semen from the body and I can do a DNA test on it...

Then give me a sample of your sperm, and I will match that with the DNA from the body flawlessly...

How you ask?

Why my good man, its very simple... I switch the labels and tell everyone who is involved and that may have a conscience to shut their mouths 'or else' because its 'just some person called Lucky' and not a rich and powerful gangsters son...

DJVillain. You watch too much telly...have a break, think a little more about what you just said. Samples are always separated and one, at least, can be independently tested. Otherwise, don't give up your day job...

[DJVillain]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Or put a flannel over your face and pour gasoline on your head for hours on end whilst letting you listen to the sound of someone playing with a lighter...

[MorristheRunt]

It only takes one loose tonge on Koh Tao and the cards will come tumbling down.

And guess who is at the top of the pile and who has personaly given his total support to the RTP........

That's some stakes in play.......

Straw, Camel and back....

Edited December 28, 2015 by MorristheRunt

[TheCruncher]

1,500 replies, wow.

When are you all going to form a protest march, or write a petition with your names on to the big chief?

I remember that during the past year several hardcore supporters on this forum claimed that they would be present at the trials in support of the B2, and of course I heard the echos of, me too and me too and me too.

But I don't recal any post of a tv member being present at the trial, as that would have involved moving out of their armchair of course.

[asiamaster]

Is he still selling roti's ? is he still on Kog Tao, is he still in Thailand ? is he still alive ? lol

Why would he still be on Koh Tao? He was a roti seller on Koh Samui,

You are very well informed aren't you?

[lucky11]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Apparently, they confessed because they were tickled under the arm from the picture I saw of an almost bruise in the armpit area (probably self inflicted). God, the screams must have been unbearable!! If they tickled me so viciously I'd sign anything.

[asiamaster]

1,500 replies, wow.

When are you all going to form a protest march, or write a petition with your names on to the big chief?

I remember that during the past year several hardcore supporters on this forum claimed that they would be present at the trials in support of the B2, and of course I heard the echos of, me too and me too and me too.

But I don't recal any post of a tv member being present at the trial, as that would have involved moving out of their armchair of course.