Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[AleG]

That left limp wrist again in the lower picture.

You mean like this?

No that's a bent elbow, everyone does that numerous times a day.

Whereas there are multiple postures of NS with his wrist in that awkward position and you know it.

By multiple you mean two, in any case anyone that watches the videos, not just the conveniently selected still frames, can see that the "Running Man" reaches across his chest to scratch the other side, just as Wei Phyo is doing on that photo.

It has nothing to do with limp wrists or whatever imaginary ailment or deformity you make yourselves see on two cherrypicked photos.

[Khun Han]

"The press reported the promotion, police promotions and transfers happen on the first of October"

Another unsubtantiated assertion.

Another dodge.

Once again.

Link?

It's up to you to support your claim.

Phuket Provincial Police Deputy Commander Peerayuth Karajedee is acting commander until Gen Patchara arrives.

Meanwhile, Maj Gen Paween Pongsirin, who has led the historical crackdown on Phuket’s taxi mafia, has been promoted from commander of the Region 8 Police General Staff Division to join Gen Krajang as a deputy commander of the Region 8 Police.

The Region 8 Police will also receive a new chief as their former commander, Lt Gen Panya Mamen, has been promoted to Assistant Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok.

Gen Panya will be replaced by Maj Gen Decha Budnampeth, who previously served as deputy commander of the Royal Thai Police Central Investigation Bureau.

While serving in his new post as regional police chief, Gen Decha’s long affiliation with Phuket is likely to serve him well.

Now show your evidence that all that shuffling of people was done to remove him of the case and change the course of the investigation.

So Panya's promotion was announced after his naming of Tuvichiens as suspects. Not before. Oh well, that's another big fail AleG.

I know, I know, his promotion was always going to be announced when it was (even though you can't provide any evidence that his promotion had been planned in advance). I mean, every police officer in Thailand gets promoted on that date, don't they?

You don't (want) to get it, it's you who claim his promotion was a sham, it's up to you to prove your claim.

His promotion has all the appearance of a sham. You claim it isn't, but can't provide one iota of evidence that it was pre-planned. As you can't prove it was pre-planned, I (and many others) will continue to suspect that it was related to the case he was investigating at the time.

[Khun Han]

That left limp wrist again in the lower picture.

You mean like this?

No that's a bent elbow, everyone does that numerous times a day.

Whereas there are multiple postures of NS with his wrist in that awkward position and you know it.

By multiple you mean two, in any case anyone that watches the videos, not just the conveniently selected still frames, can see that the "Running Man" reaches across his chest to scratch the other side, just as Wei Phyo is doing on that photo.

It has nothing to do with limp wrists or whatever imaginary ailment or deformity you make yourselves see on two cherrypicked photos.

I think you'll find that there are a lot more than two.

[AleG]

The reason for trying to frame Nomsod is because the narrative of the son of a rich man getting away with murder is a very juicy one, all sort of prejudices can be attached to it; that's why online "detectives" (almost by definition drawn to sordid dramas) bought it hook line and sinker.

Just as you are doing now, the idea that I'm only defending him because I have "vested interests" is too self righteous not to use, never mind that it's false, it feels good to you so that's what you indulge in.

I don't care about Nomsod's family nor do I really care about the B2 tbh as I have no personal attachment to either of them, I just want the right people to serve justice for savagely killing 2 young tourists, moreso I don't want the real guilty parties to lie and cheat their way out of justice and to have 2 other people sentenced to death for their crimes.

I am pretty sure that everyone else is exactly the same. You should also be the same, but you are clearly not based on your biased position and defence of the original suspects who were caught on CCTV and were "definitely implicated in the crime".

Once again, the original suspects were three other Burmese men, then came Chris Ware.

And once again I need to explain the order of events, 1) Police release video of a man they think is implicated in the Crime to the public to get tips on the identity of that person, 2) CSI-LA decides that Nomsod is a nuisance and why! doesn't he look a bit like that guy on the video?, 3) Police gets tips from social media pointing at Nomsod, 4) They jump the gun (as they did previously) by announcing a suspect before they check for an alibi.

And the rest is a year and counting of trying to find any evidence, at all, that he was involved in any way with the crimes because The Narrative requires him to be involved, therefore he must be involved and since real evidence hasn't materialized... well, facts can be stretched, rumors can be accepted as truth and speculation morphed into evidence. So for example if you can show a picture of Nomsod resting in an armchair with his arm propped against the back in an awkward pose, and then find one frame out of a video that sort of, kind of looks to be bent in a similar position, well that's proof positive that he is the man on that video!... because apparently no other human being can bend an arm at the elbow to reach across his chest.

So you go over and over the news clippings, the rumors, the hearsay, over and over trying to coax any form of validation for a theory that doesn't have, and never had, any merit.

[AleG]

You don't (want) to get it, it's you who claim his promotion was a sham, it's up to you to prove your claim.

His promotion has all the appearance of a sham. You claim it isn't, but can't provide one iota of evidence that it was pre-planned. As you can't prove it was pre-planned, I (and many others) will continue to suspect that it was related to the case he was investigating at the time.

In other words, guilty until proven innocent.

That's ThailandJustice for you.

[tomacht8]

This cruel crime may have been committed only by a pack of barbaric animals, full of drugs, such as yaba, ice and meth. And they must have been very secure and had to feel as unassailable in order to commit such a heinous crime in that place.

Edited January 4, 2016 by tomacht8

[Chetzee]

AliJ .......So you go over and over the news clippings, the rumors, the hearsay, over and over trying to coax any form of validation for a theory that doesn't have, and never had, any merit.

And all the time your guy stays in the lime light ! Must b tough out there ..... pmsl ! Hope you've got plenty of time on your hands , seems you're gonna need it !

[davidstipek]

According to this report, phone records were checked in the prosecution documents case file, however it certainly makes no mention of Nomsods data being checked. Also how detailed those checks were is also up for speculation.

It chronicles the events leading up to the discovery of the bodies. The Report sets out in detail the steps taken by the RTP in investigating the crime and in pursuing suspects and leads. It provides an account of how evidence was collected such as the performance of mass DNA testing, the identification and retrieval of CCTV footag from across the island, and the retrieval and collation of cell phone data etc. https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hq_15X0311_final.pdf

At the trial reference to Nomsod was mentioned but nothing about phone records:

The man Ms Witheridge was rumoured to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumours that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Maybe this will joggle your memory:

"HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation."

If I remember correctly that piece of information came from a Tweet from Andy Hall, I'm not going to sift through all 30.000 or so of them for it.

Thank you for pointing me to a reply to one of my posts from Catsanddogs. The information she relayed to me could well have come from Andy but seeing as you cant be bothered to look for it we will never know. I also note when someone has referred to previous posts in previous topics you have labeled them as "stalkers"

Pot.........Kettle

Making a Google search for nomsod phone records site:thaivisa.com is not stalking, that your username comes up associated with it as the first hit is just deliciously ironic, seeing how you tried to pretend that I was making stuff up.

Some of the following are direct quotes from online article at : http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

on 17:22 23 July 2015 by Sarah Yuen in Thailand submitted to Eastern Daily Press in U.K.

"The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok. The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defense.”"

So it seems that the Defense was Dogged into believing that requesting a complete retest of all DNA was used and if a request for was submitted what was it going to be tested against... With no required logging of who handled... Where... When... Why ... and How there was the greatest possibility of something being altered! So I can understand why they submitted no such request!

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

If she had an argument and it involved the subject of SEX and refused the advancement... It would have been a Major source of "Loss Of Face" if the Male was Thai. If the argument was in front of his friends.... "A more Serious Loss of Face!!"

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

Of course there wasn't... No one saw David or Hannah leave either! Camera's not working or turned off for some reason...

"But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014."

Funny they were seen entering... But after that not leaving...

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe."

The Rape is alleged only! Who can refute that they did not go swimming... The B2 were already swimming! the 4 could have met there and Hannah could have agreed to sex with the boys, They were probably a little more fun to be around and laughing joking.... Hannah could have agreed... If this was viewed by the participant of the earlier altercation that evening and his buddies... Extremely Deep onset of Loss Of Face would have been set in place! Now to rebut this in front of his friends he had to do something! Who is to say that after the B2 and Hannah parted company he confronted her and she laughed him off! He then used hoe to Murder her... They have the DNA (sperm) from the B2 proving they had sex with her, but from a Third Person also. Mixed in her sexual organ was the DNA from 3 males and hers. Who is the Third Male?? The DNA of the B2 was "NOT" found on the Hoe. Yet it is the murder weapon! What was found was Hannah's DNA and the DNA of two others persons... This was never followed up on.

Hannah was alive when intercourse was completed, we know this because her DNA fluids created by the acts of sex would have only been present if she was alive! The fact that there are no bruises in the areas prone to address these when Raped... tells us this or these acts were consensual!

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe.

Mr Miller is also alleged to have been hit with the hoe, and then left to drown in the sea."

David was hit on the top of the head with the handle of the Hoe. This did not kill him, it was used to subdue him. He was killed by the blunt force traumas to the facial, neck and sides of the head. the fist that was hitting him had an object attached to it that was puncturing everywhere he was hit with a serrated 1" deep v shaped wound... It has been said the punctures were like a single Sharks tooth was used. David did have bruising as being restrained as he was being pulverized, then as an insurance move after he collapsed in the water he was later hit on the top of the head, major loss of Blood came from the facial area traumas. Not from the top of his head... he was already dead!

"The police colonel admitted that CCTV footage of the port, which may have shown who boarded the early morning boat from Koh Tao to the mainland immediately after the deaths was never checked.

There was an audible gasp in the court when the police officer said his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat."

"The man Ms Witheridge was rumored to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumor's that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived."

Why? Who has it? Nomsod was mentioned in the trial, but not this deep! His DNA needs to be added to the DNA Profile File. Or is it going to change the direction the trial was going and insure others on Koh Tao would be involved. I believe the boys did not murder anyone! Have Sex... yes that is not a crime here in Thailand or a lot more people would be in Bangkok Hilton! Do they know something... most assuredly... "Yes" and that is probably why their items were left on the Beach. They ran for their lives, but came back later to get them. But said they were drunk earlier that evening to convince the real killers they saw nothing. Of course they heard the struggle, as did David that is why he exited the water and was killed...

So which is going to get you sentenced to death? Having Sex or using a Weapon???

It's not hearsay, and you know it as usual, it comes directly from the police. The police issued a quote saying that Mon and Nomsod were caught on CCTV and were definitely implicated in the crime. You cannot wish this fact away as it was quoted and released to the media by the police.

At best the B2 were involved in the crime with Mon and Nomsod, but Mon and Nomsod were definitely involved in the crime according to the police who had viewed the CCTV which filmed them at the crime scene.

The only speculation and hearsay is you trying to say that the CCTV is something completely different as to what Panya said it was, as it has never been released or presented at the trial.

Edited January 4, 2016 by davidstipek

[Zeberdee]

That left limp wrist again in the lower picture.

You mean like this?

No that's a bent elbow, everyone does that numerous times a day.

Whereas there are multiple postures of NS with his wrist in that awkward position and you know it.

By multiple you mean two, in any case anyone that watches the videos, not just the conveniently selected still frames, can see that the "Running Man" reaches across his chest to scratch the other side, just as Wei Phyo is doing on that photo.

It has nothing to do with limp wrists or whatever imaginary ailment or deformity you make yourselves see on two cherrypicked photos.

"Reaches across to scratch the other side"...are you for real?

His wrist is pretty much snapped in half, what planet are you on?

[KunMatt]

The reason for trying to frame Nomsod is because the narrative of the son of a rich man getting away with murder is a very juicy one, all sort of prejudices can be attached to it; that's why online "detectives" (almost by definition drawn to sordid dramas) bought it hook line and sinker.

Just as you are doing now, the idea that I'm only defending him because I have "vested interests" is too self righteous not to use, never mind that it's false, it feels good to you so that's what you indulge in.

I don't care about Nomsod's family nor do I really care about the B2 tbh as I have no personal attachment to either of them, I just want the right people to serve justice for savagely killing 2 young tourists, moreso I don't want the real guilty parties to lie and cheat their way out of justice and to have 2 other people sentenced to death for their crimes.

I am pretty sure that everyone else is exactly the same. You should also be the same, but you are clearly not based on your biased position and defence of the original suspects who were caught on CCTV and were "definitely implicated in the crime".

Once again, the original suspects were three other Burmese men, then came Chris Ware.

And once again I need to explain the order of events, 1) Police release video of a man they think is implicated in the Crime to the public to get tips on the identity of that person, 2) CSI-LA decides that Nomsod is a nuisance and why! doesn't he look a bit like that guy on the video?, 3) Police gets tips from social media pointing at Nomsod, 4) They jump the gun (as they did previously) by announcing a suspect before they check for an alibi.

And the rest is a year and counting of trying to find any evidence, at all, that he was involved in any way with the crimes because The Narrative requires him to be involved, therefore he must be involved and since real evidence hasn't materialized... well, facts can be stretched, rumors can be accepted as truth and speculation morphed into evidence. So for example if you can show a picture of Nomsod resting in an armchair with his arm propped against the back in an awkward pose, and then find one frame out of a video that sort of, kind of looks to be bent in a similar position, well that's proof positive that he is the man on that video!... because apparently no other human being can bend an arm at the elbow to reach across his chest.

So you go over and over the news clippings, the rumors, the hearsay, over and over trying to coax any form of validation for a theory that doesn't have, and never had, any merit.

It's not hearsay, and you know it as usual, it comes directly from the police. The police issued a quote saying that Mon and Nomsod were caught on CCTV and were definitely implicated in the crime. You cannot wish this fact away as it was quoted and released to the media by the police.

At best the B2 were involved in the crime with Mon and Nomsod, but Mon and Nomsod were definitely involved in the crime according to the police who had viewed the CCTV which filmed them at the crime scene.

The only speculation and hearsay is you trying to say that the CCTV is something completely different as to what Panya said it was, as it has never been released or presented at the trial.

[catsanddogs]

The reason for trying to frame Nomsod is because the narrative of the son of a rich man getting away with murder is a very juicy one, all sort of prejudices can be attached to it; that's why online "detectives" (almost by definition drawn to sordid dramas) bought it hook line and sinker.

Just as you are doing now, the idea that I'm only defending him because I have "vested interests" is too self righteous not to use, never mind that it's false, it feels good to you so that's what you indulge in.

I don't care about Nomsod's family nor do I really care about the B2 tbh as I have no personal attachment to either of them, I just want the right people to serve justice for savagely killing 2 young tourists, moreso I don't want the real guilty parties to lie and cheat their way out of justice and to have 2 other people sentenced to death for their crimes.

I am pretty sure that everyone else is exactly the same. You should also be the same, but you are clearly not based on your biased position and defence of the original suspects who were caught on CCTV and were "definitely implicated in the crime".

Once again, the original suspects were three other Burmese men, then came Chris Ware.

And once again I need to explain the order of events, 1) Police release video of a man they think is implicated in the Crime to the public to get tips on the identity of that person, 2) CSI-LA decides that Nomsod is a nuisance and why! doesn't he look a bit like that guy on the video?, 3) Police gets tips from social media pointing at Nomsod, 4) They jump the gun (as they did previously) by announcing a suspect before they check for an alibi.

And the rest is a year and counting of trying to find any evidence, at all, that he was involved in any way with the crimes because The Narrative requires him to be involved, therefore he must be involved and since real evidence hasn't materialized... well, facts can be stretched, rumors can be accepted as truth and speculation morphed into evidence. So for example if you can show a picture of Nomsod resting in an armchair with his arm propped against the back in an awkward pose, and then find one frame out of a video that sort of, kind of looks to be bent in a similar position, well that's proof positive that he is the man on that video!... because apparently no other human being can bend an arm at the elbow to reach across his chest.

So you go over and over the news clippings, the rumors, the hearsay, over and over trying to coax any form of validation for a theory that doesn't have, and never had, any merit.

I don't normally read your posts if they're longer than one sentence AleG and having read this poppycock post I realise why. There has never been a micro shred of doubt in your mind that the B2 could not be guilty from the outset 476 days ago and that should be of serious concern to all on here who seek true justice.

[AleG]

Making a Google search for nomsod phone records site:thaivisa.com is not stalking, that your username comes up associated with it as the first hit is just deliciously ironic, seeing how you tried to pretend that I was making stuff up.

Some of the following are direct quotes from online article at : http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

on 17:22 23 July 2015 by Sarah Yuen in Thailand submitted to Eastern Daily Press in U.K.

"The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok. The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defense.”"

So it seems that the Defense was Dogged into believing that requesting a complete retest of all DNA was used and if a request for was submitted what was it going to be tested against... With no required logging of who handled... Where... When... Why ... and How there was the greatest possibility of something being altered! So I can understand why they submitted no such request!

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

If she had an argument and it involved the subject of SEX and refused the advancement... It would have been a Major source of "Loss Of Face" if the Male was Thai. If the argument was in front of his friends.... "A more Serious Loss of Face!!"

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

Of course there wasn't... No one saw David or Hannah leave either! Camera's not working or turned off for some reason...

"But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014."

Funny they were seen entering... But after that not leaving...

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe."

The Rape is alleged only! Who can refute that they did not go swimming... The B2 were already swimming! the 4 could have met there and Hannah could have agreed to sex with the boys, They were probably a little more fun to be around and laughing joking.... Hannah could have agreed... If this was viewed by the participant of the earlier altercation that evening and his buddies... Extremely Deep onset of Loss Of Face would have been set in place! Now to rebut this in front of his friends he had to do something! Who is to say that after the B2 and Hannah parted company he confronted her and she laughed him off! He then used hoe to Murder her... They have the DNA (sperm) from the B2 proving they had sex with her, but from a Third Person also. Mixed in her sexual organ was the DNA from 3 males and hers. Who is the Third Male?? The DNA of the B2 was "NOT" found on the Hoe. Yet it is the murder weapon! What was found was Hannah's DNA and the DNA of two others persons... This was never followed up on.

Hannah was alive when intercourse was completed, we know this because her DNA fluids created by the acts of sex would have only been present if she was alive! The fact that there are no bruises in the areas prone to address these when Raped... tells us this or these acts were consensual!

Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe.

Mr Miller is also alleged to have been hit with the hoe, and then left to drown in the sea."

David was hit on the top of the head with the handle of the Hoe. This did not kill him, it was used to subdue him. He was killed by the blunt force traumas to the facial, neck and sides of the head. the fist that was hitting him had an object attached to it that was puncturing everywhere he was hit with a serrated 1" deep v shaped wound... It has been said the punctures were like a single Sharks tooth was used. David did have bruising as being restrained as he was being pulverized, then as an insurance move after he collapsed in the water he was later hit on the top of the head, major loss of Blood came from the facial area traumas. Not from the top of his head... he was already dead!

"The police colonel admitted that CCTV footage of the port, which may have shown who boarded the early morning boat from Koh Tao to the mainland immediately after the deaths was never checked.

There was an audible gasp in the court when the police officer said his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat."

"The man Ms Witheridge was rumored to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumor's that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived."

Why? Who has it? Nomsod was mentioned in the trial, but not this deep! His DNA needs to be added to the DNA Profile File. Or is it going to change the direction the trial was going and insure others on Koh Tao would be involved. I believe the boys did not murder anyone! Have Sex... yes that is not a crime here in Thailand or a lot more people would be in Bangkok Hilton! Do they know something... most assuredly... "Yes" and that is probably why their items were left on the Beach. They ran for their lives, but came back later to get them. But said they were drunk earlier that evening to convince the real killers they saw nothing. Of course they heard the struggle, as did David that is why he exited the water and was killed...

I'm off to bed, so I'll just answer your last question, but first think about it for a second, why would the results of that test, done almost a month after Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo were arrested and indicted for the murders, would not be included in the investigation of the murders...

Think a bit more...

No idea?

OK, because the investigation was finished by then and the test was not made as part of that investigation, it was done (naively) to placate Social Media rumors.

[AleG]

No that's a bent elbow, everyone does that numerous times a day.

Whereas there are multiple postures of NS with his wrist in that awkward position and you know it.

By multiple you mean two, in any case anyone that watches the videos, not just the conveniently selected still frames, can see that the "Running Man" reaches across his chest to scratch the other side, just as Wei Phyo is doing on that photo.

It has nothing to do with limp wrists or whatever imaginary ailment or deformity you make yourselves see on two cherrypicked photos.

"Reaches across to scratch the other side"...are you for real?

His wrist is pretty much snapped in half, what planet are you on?

Planet "I'm not making a judgement based on a single picture"

His wrists look very normal to me on this video: https://youtu.be/l4Z1zEjDj7I?t=1m13s

It's really bizarre how you guys are so psyched you actually seem to believe the man has some form of deformity.

You are seeing what you want to see, or what other people want you to see.

[Khun Han]

You don't (want) to get it, it's you who claim his promotion was a sham, it's up to you to prove your claim.

His promotion has all the appearance of a sham. You claim it isn't, but can't provide one iota of evidence that it was pre-planned. As you can't prove it was pre-planned, I (and many others) will continue to suspect that it was related to the case he was investigating at the time.

In other words, guilty until proven innocent.

That's ThailandJustice for you.

Panya's promotion wasn't a criminal court case .

[Khun Han]

No that's a bent elbow, everyone does that numerous times a day.

Whereas there are multiple postures of NS with his wrist in that awkward position and you know it.

By multiple you mean two, in any case anyone that watches the videos, not just the conveniently selected still frames, can see that the "Running Man" reaches across his chest to scratch the other side, just as Wei Phyo is doing on that photo.

It has nothing to do with limp wrists or whatever imaginary ailment or deformity you make yourselves see on two cherrypicked photos.

"Reaches across to scratch the other side"...are you for real?

His wrist is pretty much snapped in half, what planet are you on?

Planet "I'm not making a judgement based on a single picture"

His wrists look very normal to me on this video: https://youtu.be/l4Z1zEjDj7I?t=1m13s

It's really bizarre how you guys are so psyched you actually seem to believe the man has some form of deformity.

You are seeing what you want to see, or what other people want you to see.

We're seeing what you don't want us to see.

[Khun Han]

Making a Google search for nomsod phone records site:thaivisa.com is not stalking, that your username comes up associated with it as the first hit is just deliciously ironic, seeing how you tried to pretend that I was making stuff up.

Some of the following are direct quotes from online article at : http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

on 17:22 23 July 2015 by Sarah Yuen in Thailand submitted to Eastern Daily Press in U.K.

"The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok. The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defense.”"

So it seems that the Defense was Dogged into believing that requesting a complete retest of all DNA was used and if a request for was submitted what was it going to be tested against... With no required logging of who handled... Where... When... Why ... and How there was the greatest possibility of something being altered! So I can understand why they submitted no such request!

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

If she had an argument and it involved the subject of SEX and refused the advancement... It would have been a Major source of "Loss Of Face" if the Male was Thai. If the argument was in front of his friends.... "A more Serious Loss of Face!!"

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

Of course there wasn't... No one saw David or Hannah leave either! Camera's not working or turned off for some reason...

"But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014."

Funny they were seen entering... But after that not leaving...

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe."

The Rape is alleged only! Who can refute that they did not go swimming... The B2 were already swimming! the 4 could have met there and Hannah could have agreed to sex with the boys, They were probably a little more fun to be around and laughing joking.... Hannah could have agreed... If this was viewed by the participant of the earlier altercation that evening and his buddies... Extremely Deep onset of Loss Of Face would have been set in place! Now to rebut this in front of his friends he had to do something! Who is to say that after the B2 and Hannah parted company he confronted her and she laughed him off! He then used hoe to Murder her... They have the DNA (sperm) from the B2 proving they had sex with her, but from a Third Person also. Mixed in her sexual organ was the DNA from 3 males and hers. Who is the Third Male?? The DNA of the B2 was "NOT" found on the Hoe. Yet it is the murder weapon! What was found was Hannah's DNA and the DNA of two others persons... This was never followed up on.

Hannah was alive when intercourse was completed, we know this because her DNA fluids created by the acts of sex would have only been present if she was alive! The fact that there are no bruises in the areas prone to address these when Raped... tells us this or these acts were consensual!

Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe.

Mr Miller is also alleged to have been hit with the hoe, and then left to drown in the sea."

David was hit on the top of the head with the handle of the Hoe. This did not kill him, it was used to subdue him. He was killed by the blunt force traumas to the facial, neck and sides of the head. the fist that was hitting him had an object attached to it that was puncturing everywhere he was hit with a serrated 1" deep v shaped wound... It has been said the punctures were like a single Sharks tooth was used. David did have bruising as being restrained as he was being pulverized, then as an insurance move after he collapsed in the water he was later hit on the top of the head, major loss of Blood came from the facial area traumas. Not from the top of his head... he was already dead!

"The police colonel admitted that CCTV footage of the port, which may have shown who boarded the early morning boat from Koh Tao to the mainland immediately after the deaths was never checked.

There was an audible gasp in the court when the police officer said his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat."

"The man Ms Witheridge was rumored to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumor's that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived."

Why? Who has it? Nomsod was mentioned in the trial, but not this deep! His DNA needs to be added to the DNA Profile File. Or is it going to change the direction the trial was going and insure others on Koh Tao would be involved. I believe the boys did not murder anyone! Have Sex... yes that is not a crime here in Thailand or a lot more people would be in Bangkok Hilton! Do they know something... most assuredly... "Yes" and that is probably why their items were left on the Beach. They ran for their lives, but came back later to get them. But said they were drunk earlier that evening to convince the real killers they saw nothing. Of course they heard the struggle, as did David that is why he exited the water and was killed...

I'm off to bed, so I'll just answer your last question, but first think about it for a second, why would the results of that test, done almost a month after Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo were arrested and indicted for the murders, would not be included in the investigation of the murders...

Think a bit more...

No idea?

OK, because the investigation was finished by then and the test was not made as part of that investigation, it was done (naively) to placate Social Media rumors.

This "finished" investigation wasn't the one that kept being sent back to the police by the prosecuter most of the way up to Christmas 2014 as being incomplete then?

Is that reason you gave for the Nomsod DNA test pantomime confirmed, or is it just your speculation?

[smedly]

honestly I cannot believe this thread just goes on and on with the same (mostly garbage) nonsense, a judge in a Thai lower court made a judgemet (which we all respect....right ?) so we must respect that he knows what he is talking about and has far supirior scientific and general education that anyone posting on this forum - he is a god among us and knows everything, his education is beyond reproach so we need to respect that.....right ?

The physical Dna evidence that he saw presented to his court was absolute and scriibbled right there on what amounted to a post it, hey the police in Thailand are beyond reproach and the big chief was right there (who is also a fully qualified forensic scientist) - the UK autopsy carried out by very poorly educated people shall not be admitted to my court because I say so and we are the "hub" of law and justice

General Prayut Chan (O) Cha - I call you out as a man of your word and someone I believe has some integrety - sort this out, get the DSI involved with some people you trust who will leave no stone uncovered and reclaim your face in front of your people and the international community - right now your face is lost because you promised - honor - integrety - transparency - wiping out corruption - wiping out influencial people (mafia), this Isalnd of Koh Tao is disrepecting what you stand for, these people are laughing in your face.

The KIng of Thailand owns Koh Tao, bulldoze the whole rotten place and return it to nature and to the Thai people

44

Edited January 4, 2016 by smedly

[Eirene]

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

[englishoak]

You don't (want) to get it, it's you who claim his promotion was a sham, it's up to you to prove your claim.

His promotion has all the appearance of a sham. You claim it isn't, but can't provide one iota of evidence that it was pre-planned. As you can't prove it was pre-planned, I (and many others) will continue to suspect that it was related to the case he was investigating at the time.

In other words, guilty until proven innocent.

That's ThailandJustice for you.

You said it yourself, guilty until proven innocent which is about as broken as any law system gets.

Justice dosnt live in Thailand just as you say.... thank you for nailing it down so succinctly.

[smedly]

What is the Thai word for "bent"

[lkv]

Nakhon cited one of the defendants, Wai Phyo, as saying that police handcuffed him naked, took pictures of him and forced him to confess that he was the man caught on a closed-circuit television camera near the murder scene.

"He said that police officers flicked his genitals hard, pulled his legs apart and took photographs of him naked," Nakhon said in a telephone interview. "They also kicked him in the back, punched him, slapped him, threatened to tie him to a rock and drop him in the sea, chop off his arms and legs, throw his body into the sea to feed the fish."

He said the police told Wai Phyo: "'Those who don't have passports don't have rights. If they disappear, nobody would notice."'

Although a police-appointed doctor said no bruises were found on his chest, prison doctors testified that the bruises did exist.

Nakhon said Zaw Lin also claimed that a police-appointed Burmese translator took part in the beating. He was told he would be killed if he didn't admit to the charges, Nakhon said. "High-ranking officers also told Zaw Lin that he was still young and would only spend two or three years in prison," he said.

"He also said he was constantly suffocated by a plastic bag that was put over his head until he passed out. He was afraid he would die," Nakhon said.

During the trial, the defence mostly focused on the problems of using unprofessional translators to interrogate the two defendants, and their ethnic biases against the accused.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/thai-police-threatened-to-chop-legs-off-suspect-accused-of-murdering-british-backpackers-a6690996.html

Edited January 4, 2016 by lkv

[JusticeKT]

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

Eirene, but if this was staged, would that not have required elaborate prior planning of the crime? I cannot imagine how all this could have taken place in such a short timeframe whilst the murderers must have been under such time pressure and/or panic to cover up. How would they maintain their cool to stage all this within minutes and after such a vicious fight?? I assume everyone involved would have had visible injuries from the fight. Trying to profile the murderers, I am convinced that this is not the first time they have done this - then this could very well fit in with the unexplained death of the British guy, the French and followed by the young British journalist on Koh Tao. Somethings really stinks on that island and it was surely not the two midgets who killed Hannah and David. There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what??? That this was a result of complete loss of face and someone hi-up just went ballistic is very clear.... oh God, I just so hope for justice and the real murderers to be found.

[lkv]

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what???

To fit in with the story / motive / murder. Because the motive was sexual no? Beautiful woman, horny migrants, etc. You know?

I agree with Eirene there. I do feel there was no rape at all involved. Now in regards to how the DNA got inside her, well there's only one way. I would just requote a part of my previous post:

"He said that police officers flicked his genitals hard, pulled his legs apart and took photographs of him naked" - Source See Post #3149

Edited January 4, 2016 by lkv

[Eirene]

As I have mentioned before...it takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene. Someone that has possibly done this before...cool headed...takes control. A profiler would do well to go over this case perhaps.There was time to stage this, as the running man [if involved ] was first seen at 3:44 am...the whistle blown at 6:20.

The staged scene is to make it look like the rape was the cause of the murders not the rage that came with a loss of face. Possibly the crime or part of the crime took place elsewhere and the victim had to be moved as it would implicate certain people. You wouldn't want the tourists to think that there is a psycho running around the island...bad for business. Migrant workers would be easy patsies as they of course are not Thais and Thais would never do such a thing.

You mention other cases on that island...there are some that believe all or some of those cases were staged as well.

Also the victims clothes conveniently went missing, no doubt there would have been lots of DNA available for testing from these items. How you lose such important evidence absolutely astounds me. Thus the judgement on this case relied on skewed DNA from a very unprofessional document.

MUO - My Unprofessional Opinion

Edit to add: Just for clarification David and Hannah were not found in front of Mon's bar/resort as some seem to keep on about...unless he owns the whole beach. So there was no reason for him to be in the crime scene area. The owner of the Ocean View Resort is Narong Det Kanchana Pen.

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

Eirene, but if this was staged, would that not have required elaborate prior planning of the crime? I cannot imagine how all this could have taken place in such a short timeframe whilst the murderers must have been under such time pressure and/or panic to cover up. How would they maintain their cool to stage all this within minutes and after such a vicious fight?? I assume everyone involved would have had visible injuries from the fight. Trying to profile the murderers, I am convinced that this is not the first time they have done this - then this could very well fit in with the unexplained death of the British guy, the French and followed by the young British journalist on Koh Tao. Somethings really stinks on that island and it was surely not the two midgets who killed Hannah and David. There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what??? That this was a result of complete loss of face and someone hi-up just went ballistic is very clear.... oh God, I just so hope for justice and the real murderers to be found.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Eirene

[cdnvic]

Getting tired of deleting personal attacks. It's not like anything anyone says here is going to make a difference so stop taking it so seriously. From now on personal attacks will be met with posting suspensions. No exceptions.

Also, the report button is for reporting serious misconduct, not for expressing disagreement with someone.

[seahorse]

Nomsod in the photos that his lawyers claim as proof he was in Bangkok.

With highly dubious time stamps...

The more you look at those time stamps, the more obvious it is that they are doctored.

[seahorse]

iReason, on 04 Jan 2016 - 15:36, said:

A guy and his babe 3 seconds in front of a primary suspect in a double murder:

And again here. This couple were the only people seen near Running Man on the CCTV footage that has been released to the public. That makes them witnesses in my view.

Running man back view.jpg

No doubt this couple were some of the numerous people who left on the first boats out of Koh Tao on the 15th. With CCTV footage not being checked of the first boats leaving we will never know. Another complete balls up in the investigation

Balls up? No, perfect!

[seahorse]

As I have mentioned before...it takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene. Someone that has possibly done this before...cool headed...takes control. A profiler would do well to go over this case perhaps.There was time to stage this, as the running man [if involved ] was first seen at 3:44 am...the whistle blown at 6:20.

The staged scene is to make it look like the rape was the cause of the murders not the rage that came with a loss of face. Possibly the crime or part of the crime took place elsewhere and the victim had to be moved as it would implicate certain people. You wouldn't want the tourists to think that there is a psycho running around the island...bad for business. Migrant workers would be easy patsies as they of course are not Thais and Thais would never do such a thing.

You mention other cases on that island...there are some that believe all or some of those cases were staged as well.

Also the victims clothes conveniently went missing, no doubt there would have been lots of DNA available for testing from these items. How you lose such important evidence absolutely astounds me. Thus the judgement on this case relied on skewed DNA from a very unprofessional document.

MUO - My Unprofessional Opinion

Edit to add: Just for clarification David and Hannah were not found in front of Mon's bar/resort as some seem to keep on about...unless he owns the whole beach. So there was no reason for him to be in the crime scene area. The owner of the Ocean View Resort is Narong Det Kanchana Pen.

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

Eirene, but if this was staged, would that not have required elaborate prior planning of the crime? I cannot imagine how all this could have taken place in such a short timeframe whilst the murderers must have been under such time pressure and/or panic to cover up. How would they maintain their cool to stage all this within minutes and after such a vicious fight?? I assume everyone involved would have had visible injuries from the fight. Trying to profile the murderers, I am convinced that this is not the first time they have done this - then this could very well fit in with the unexplained death of the British guy, the French and followed by the young British journalist on Koh Tao. Somethings really stinks on that island and it was surely not the two midgets who killed Hannah and David. There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what??? That this was a result of complete loss of face and someone hi-up just went ballistic is very clear.... oh God, I just so hope for justice and the real murderers to be found.

And Sean McAnna said Mon was planning to stage his hanging. Do I detect a pattern?

[HUH]

What it is saying is: " The DNA has not been presented to the Court" The only thing relating to the DNA subject that has been presented was "a Declaration that it matched the DNA of the B2".

On the subject of taking a DNA sample... Anyone can hopefully wear surgical gloves, open a swab test kit and remove sealed swab with carrier to trap DNA on it... take swab and get sample, and return sample bag and seal it. Hopefully writing all reference data on label (so history knows path and date and Tech involved) and stick over sealed end of bag to eliminated any unauthorized opening of sample bag.

But this is not the result for the DNA test as some seem to think it is...

This sample needs to be sent to a lab that has been designated as in charge of doing test. Not lay around in some ones desk waiting for it to be requested, meanwhile being contaminated or altered. If it retained by staff and left in desk, Tech who took sample cannot prove it was DNA sample they sent...!

It takes 24 hours to isolate the DNA stem ladders, why? because 99.9% of all Human DNA is a match, if this is what the police lab got to match... Results are screwed!!! It is that .9% that needs to be Isolated!!! It takes 20-24hrs for this process, to insure no cross contamination of any of the Stems they have isolated, remember we need 16. Even then the results are not allowed to be classified as 100% as a positive match, that is Medically Impossible!!!

If I was a Prof. of Pathology or Doctor teaching at a Major Medical University in U.K. (This is an International Case...) or anywhere else if that mattered! What matters is the Oath I took that enables me to practice. As victims and those on trial, are not Thai Citizens!!! I would file a Law Suit against the RTP for faulty information being released, misdirecting the Courts in the direction of a Murder Trial and slandering the Degrees and Teaching Staff and University, ridiculing the profession of any Graduate who takes the Job as a Pathologist. As we try to teach "How a Pathologist or Doctor needs to be prepared for a case similar to this, what is Legally Required by, not State Law... Not the Law of any Country... But when a Murder is committed in a Foreign Country what is Required by International Law. Thus all these steps have been ridiculed...

Then you need to expand this when taking swab samples from a crime scene...

When it has come to light that there is a presence of more then one DNA in this case 3 plus the Victim! Now everything needs to have a trail (Who, What, When, Where and How... All need to be documented in sequence and by whom and what lab.

As it is required that each DNA sample be sent to a separate Lab!

See how big this has gotten just involving One DNA Sample? and... Not something that could be completed in some Island, Police backdoor lab!!!

Great post, sometimes informative posts like this tend to slide from view due to the missdirectional posts by a couple of prolific posters.

I hope this type of information will be used in the appeal.

[asiamaster]

It takes 24 hours to isolate the DNA stem ladders, why? because 99.9% of all Human DNA is a match, if this is what the police lab got to match... Results are screwed!!! It is that .9% that needs to be Isolated!!! It takes 20-24hrs for this process, to insure no cross contamination of any of the Stems they have isolated, remember we need 16. Even then the results are not allowed to be classified as 100% as a positive match, that is Medically Impossible!!!

Great post, sometimes informative posts like this tend to slide from view due to the missdirectional posts by a couple of prolific posters.

I hope this type of information will be used in the appeal.

Yes impressive indeed -in particular his math