Any Knowledgable LPG Experts ?

[14 the other side]

OK, so I have a Toyota and have know idea the engine set up it has.

It was originally a D4D common rail diesel (judging by the car stickers), now it has LPG/Petrol engine in it.

See the photos below.

P 01 Toyota Hilux, early 2000's I guess

P 02 Originally a D4D common rail diesel

Then, apparently, the motor was swapped for a gas converted one, below

P 03

P04

P05

P06

P 07 Maker's Brand?

P 08 Stepper Motor and Electronic Throttle Control?

P 09 PCV valve?

P 10 A

P 10 B

P10 C

P 11 A Fuel Filter? As in the car

P 11 B Flipped for easy reading

P 12 A Starting Button - Petrol fuel pump?

P 12 B Close up, there are also 4 green lights which act as a fuel gauge

P 13 Throttle throat?

P 14 Just a sticker in the engine bay.

P 15 Just a sticker in the engine bay.

So, from the above a list of questions below in my post post.

Thanks for this

[Don Mega]

1JZ engine.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Don Mega

[14 the other side]

Q 01/ From P 07 is that the LPG Maker's Brand? It's taken from the throttle body, so could also be that for Toyota?

Looking at the LPG set up, any ideas on the Manufacturer/Make/Model type?

The car was a 1 owner from new (apparently) but I can't reference back to him.

Q 02/ From P 08 Are they the Stepper Motor and/or Electronic Throttle Control and/or LPG cut off Solenoid?

If so, which colour circles which control unit?

Q 03/ From P 09 Is this the PCV valve? If it needs replacing, what symptoms will the engine have? i.e. run a fast idle, not run at all etc

Is it a special one for a LPG Engine or just replace it with the standard Factory petrol based one? Rough cost? Buy Original? Buying off e-Bay isn't an option though ATM.

Q 04/ From P 10 A, B and C Do I assume that to be the converter? Assuming the brand is known to you guys, any issues with it?

Any DIY scheduled maintenance. A LPG car I had with a Vallie converter had 2 10mm bolts at the bottom of it which you undid occasionally to drain the 'gunk' out and extend the life of the diaphragm, thus the converter.

Is there an idle jet which needs cleaning during a typical service?

In P 10 B what the adjustment for pressure increase/decrease? I've not seen something like that before.

Q 05/ From P 11 A I assume that to be a LPG Gas/Fuel Filter. How often to change? Buy genuine or after market? Cost?

Q 06/ From P 13 I assume that to be the Throttle throat/Body? Is it usually cleaned as part a general service? DIY job?

Does it have to be pulled apart and manually cleaned or is the Throttle body cleaner in a can?

Well, that's about all I can think of for the moment.

Thanks in Advance

[14 the other side]

Not a game changer, but any idea what those stickers in Thai mean?

P 14 and P 15

Also happy to hear any maintenance tips or general suggestion for this style of car/engine set up.

Edited December 27, 2015 by 14 the other side

[stubuzz]

Q.03 Buy the original PCV. I see lots of oil around the old one indicating the engine is breathing heavy. I bought an aftermarket one and after a few miles the engine was revving high at idle.

Make your own throttle body cleaner by mixing fuel additive with 75% benzine in a spray bottle.

[canthai55]

Q02 - Blue circle I believe TPS. Red circle may be MAF

Q04 - Thai call this the boiler. Allows liquid LPG to change to a gas. The small hoses carry coolant to and from this unit to heat the LPG and prevent freezing. They say replace after 5 years - but the shop I use for mine says - 'If it does not leak, why change it ?' Can't argue. New one about 3600 baht if memory serves.

Q05 - cheap. Replace yearly.

Q13 - throttle body.

Where are you located ? Might help for people to steer you to a good shop.

[14 the other side]

Q02 - Blue circle I believe TPS. Red circle may be MAF

Q04 - Thai call this the boiler. Allows liquid LPG to change to a gas. The small hoses carry coolant to and from this unit to heat the LPG and prevent freezing. They say replace after 5 years - but the shop I use for mine says - 'If it does not leak, why change it ?' Can't argue. New one about 3600 baht if memory serves.

Q05 - cheap. Replace yearly.

Q13 - throttle body.

Where are you located ? Might help for people to steer you to a good shop.

TPS / MAF, sorry, but I don't know these terms (yet).

We are central Thailand, but, unless it serious, I'll let my Thai friend take care of the maintenance because I'm only here 1/2 the year and I garage it @ his house. He doesn't rip me off, exactly the opposite.

Is the usual rule to find out where the Taxi's get serviced and get your car done there also?

[Don Mega]

is the vehicle causing you problems with the LPG ?

[canthai55]

TPS / MAF, sorry, but I don't know these terms (yet).

TPS - throttle position sensor. MAF - mass airflow sensor. Possible your vehicle has a MAP instead - manifold absolute pressure, but they have gone the way of the Dodo so doubt that.

re: taxi's get serviced ... I go to a dedicated shop that does LPG/CNG installations. Very busy, very popular.

Edited December 27, 2015 by canthai55

[canthai55]

Missed the P10B - this is to increase or decrease the amount of LPG delivered - kind of a fine tuning adjustment. When you step on the throttle and the car hesitates more than on gasoline, give a small increase, maybe 90 degrees. Re-test until performance comparable to being run on gasoline. And is a good idea to drive with gasoline on periodically. I do mine about a 1/4 tank every 2 weeks or so. Keeps the fuel injectors functioning properly. Gasahol, being hygroscopic, will pull water right out of the air. This in time will settle into the bottom of the fuel tank unless a phase separation chemical is added to keep the water in suspension, allowing it to be pumped thru the system and burned during combustion.

[14 the other side]

is the vehicle causing you problems with the LPG ?

Don, not sure.

I just had a few tanks of LPG.

Sadly, I don't speak Thai and when I had to fill it for the second time (the first time doesn't count because you don't know how much went into it) when asked by the Myanmar LPG attendant how much gas I wanted I started with my hand near my knees and slowly raised it to over my head.

She then proceeded to fill the tank. It clicked off at about BHT 380 ... she then kept manually filling it till BHT 500 ... lost for words. Luckily I had a decent drive home to use up the overfill.

So, I think it's sucking gas. As in the Fuel economy is bad ... but no firm data yet.

Maybe the O2 sensor is well past it's prime ... don't know.

First is to check the economy.

Second is to start with the easy, obvious and cheap fixes.

The PCV valve heads the top of that list.

[stubuzz]

The o2 sensor will not be monitoring when running on gas. Get a bowl of soapy water and splash it over all of the gas pipe connections and look for bubbles.

[VocalNeal]

I know nothing about the 1JZ engine so can only comment on pictures 5,10's,11's 12's which are to do with the LPG system.

You have to establish first is it automatic or manual. I.e. does it automatically start on petrol then switch to LPG after the engine is warm or is it manual and stays on one fuel until you switch it yourself. Then you have to establish if it is open loop or closed loop (takes readings from O2 sensor) this can only be achieved by looking at the control unit (following the wires from the injectors) and see if there is a wire going to the O2 sensor. If it is open loop you adjust the mixture by adjusting the gas pressure which i would leave to the LPG service specialists.

Picture 5 is the LPG injectors nothing to adjust or maintain other than to ensure the tubes are not leaking with soapy water.

Pictures 10 is the evaporator it turns liquid LPG into gaseous LPG using heat from the engine coolant. No need to adjust unless someone has done it before.

Pictures 11 is self explanatory those are LPG filters will need to be changed if engine does not run correctly. Coughs and splutters etc.

Pictures 12 Does the B/G button do the switching between petrol and LPG or is that the "other" switch? There is no "start" switch the system is either on LPG or petrol. In this climate it will start on either. There is no switch to magically do anything with the fuel pump.

If the tank fills up to 350B then they can get another 150B in it is not overfill, there is no such thing. Even 500B is low it means the tank is small-ish, a 50l tank will hold over 600B.

Regular spark plugs only last about 10,000kms on LPG so if you don't know when they where installed get some new ones. They ideally should be one heat range colder than standard if you know what that is. Special spark plugs for LPG are a waste of money in Thailand as the labour to change them more often is not an economic factor.

Mileage is difficult to access as i have 1600cc engines but they use about 1.8 to 2 B per km pushing a vehicle with the aerodynamic of a brick. . If yours is 2.5 you can prorate the consumption depending on driving style.

Yes fuel with alcohol is gyroscopic so if you leave the vehicle put "pure" benzene " 95 in it. The rest of the time running on LPG 91 E10 Gasahol will be fine.

Best advice take it to the nearest/busiest LPG installation place and get the whole system serviced.

Edited December 28, 2015 by VocalNeal

[ChesneyHawkes]

Just asked a colleague what the pics say.

P14 is just a certification label, nothing to do with LPG.

P15 not related, something to do with a whistling sound Being related to the radiator.

[bazza40]

There are cheap LPG conversions which basically take the engine back to a carburettor, and the high end LPG injected versions. If you can change from petrol to LPG and vice versa seamlessly while driving, you probably have the high end version.

While the 1JZ engine is quite robust, it's a good idea to run a quarter of a tank of 91 octane for every tank fill of LPG - helps lubricate the valve seats.

Try to fill with LPG at busy stations. Tankers have been known to discharge other products in remote areas into LPG bulk tanks, which can oil up the evaporator.

Fuel economy will be about 10% worse than petrol due to density difference; however, that's more than offset by the cost/litre.

As other posters have said, get it checked out at an LPG workshop. Main concerns are leaks and filter/evaporator contamination.

[sead]

Wow. They swapped the whole engine to a petrol/gas. Would only be possible here haha. I guess they didnt change the papers or anything. How does it go through the yearly(if theres any here) checkup ????

[JAS21]

Wow. They swapped the whole engine to a petrol/gas. Would only be possible here haha. I guess they didnt change the papers or anything. How does it go through the yearly(if theres any here) checkup ????

Surprisingly everything will be recorded in the Blue Book and you need the sales receipt for the replacement engine. And yes, engine number etc will be checked against the sales receipt.

[VocalNeal]

While the 1JZ engine is quite robust, it's a good idea to run a quarter of a tank of 91 octane for every tank fill of LPG - helps lubricate the valve seats.

For 1500B from every LPG installer you can get a washer bottle thingy that dribbles lubricant into the manifold. One on my trucks has the other does not as the ECU occupies the space where the bottle would be! We use diesel mixed with two-stroke oil as the lubricant, not the expensive mumbo jumbo stuff. Taxi drivers just use 2T. I dilute it a bit so it flows. About 1l every 5000-7500 kms -ish!

[14 the other side]

The o2 sensor will not be monitoring when running on gas. Get a bowl of soapy water and splash it over all of the gas pipe connections and look for bubbles.

I know what you mean. But there is no smell of LPG in the cabin or engine bay, so I'm assuming, no leaks.

The o2 sensor is also on my thoughts though. I'm assuming there is only one, in the header/exhaust pipes.

I did snap an image of what I believe it to be, but it was just a shadow because the light reflected from under the engine.

[bazza40]

While the 1JZ engine is quite robust, it's a good idea to run a quarter of a tank of 91 octane for every tank fill of LPG - helps lubricate the valve seats.

For 1500B from every LPG installer you can get a washer bottle thingy that dribbles lubricant into the manifold. One on my trucks has the other does not as the ECU occupies the space where the bottle would be! We use diesel mixed with two-stroke oil as the lubricant, not the expensive mumbo jumbo stuff. Taxi drivers just use 2T. I dilute it a bit so it flows. About 1l every 5000-7500 kms -ish!

Unnecessary for modern engines with hardened valve seats, also can be quite messy.

[14 the other side]

Excellent replies, thanks everyone.

I'll do my best to reply to each one if I feel I can add to the commentary already.

[14 the other side]

I know nothing about the 1JZ engine so can only comment on pictures 5,10's,11's 12's which are to do with the LPG system.

You have to establish first is it automatic or manual. I.e. does it automatically start on petrol then switch to LPG after the engine is warm or is it manual and stays on one fuel until you switch it yourself. Then you have to establish if it is open loop or closed loop (takes readings from O2 sensor) this can only be achieved by looking at the control unit (following the wires from the injectors) and see if there is a wire going to the O2 sensor. If it is open loop you adjust the mixture by adjusting the gas pressure which i would leave to the LPG service specialists.

Picture 5 is the LPG injectors nothing to adjust or maintain other than to ensure the tubes are not leaking with soapy water.

Pictures 10 is the evaporator it turns liquid LPG into gaseous LPG using heat from the engine coolant. No need to adjust unless someone has done it before.

Pictures 11 is self explanatory those are LPG filters will need to be changed if engine does not run correctly. Coughs and splutters etc.

Pictures 12 Does the B/G button do the switching between petrol and LPG or is that the "other" switch? There is no "start" switch the system is either on LPG or petrol. In this climate it will start on either. There is no switch to magically do anything with the fuel pump.

If the tank fills up to 350B then they can get another 150B in it is not overfill, there is no such thing. Even 500B is low it means the tank is small-ish, a 50l tank will hold over 600B.

Regular spark plugs only last about 10,000kms on LPG so if you don't know when they where installed get some new ones. They ideally should be one heat range colder than standard if you know what that is. Special spark plugs for LPG are a waste of money in Thailand as the labour to change them more often is not an economic factor.

Mileage is difficult to access as i have 1600cc engines but they use about 1.8 to 2 B per km pushing a vehicle with the aerodynamic of a brick. . If yours is 2.5 you can prorate the consumption depending on driving style.

Yes fuel with alcohol is gyroscopic so if you leave the vehicle put "pure" benzene " 95 in it. The rest of the time running on LPG 91 E10 Gasahol will be fine.

Best advice take it to the nearest/busiest LPG installation place and get the whole system serviced.

Thanks VN, I'll start with your detailed reply with the information I have.

"is it automatic or manual", well I'm not 100% sure. I was told that I had to push that button in P 12 A / B and that was the 'fuel pump, the implication being the 'petrol fuel' pump. In my haste today, I turned the beast over without the 3 sec press of the button ... no go.

Realised my error, tried again maybe 10 or 15 times and no start. Waited 3 mins, tried again using the usual method and she was fine, started sweet as.

We put in 8 litres of petrol into her less then a week ago and most of that is gone, so my basic assumption is that she starts on Petrol and then runs on Petrol for some distance before automatically switching over.

If the tank fills up to 350B then they can get another 150B in it is not overfill, there is no such thing. Even 500B is low it means the tank is small-ish, a 50l tank will hold over 600B.

My understand is that there is an auto shut-off valve which triggers, on most LPG cars @ 80% full ... the 20% leaving room for the gas expansion if filled on a cold morning, then expands as the day heats the tank and thus the fuel up? I know that is how it works in the west.

A 'proper' service in on the cars. Went today to Toyota to but that PCV Valve and they said, sorry, that manifold is not Toyota. So, now it's going to pull the PCV valve out and look for numbers and try and match it.

Thanks again for your detailed replay. Guys like you and responses like yours makes this place a valuable forum to be a part of.

[F4UCorsair]

I loved your thread title....plenty of experts, but knowledgeable....?

It's a bit like tapping a keg, everybody's an expert, even if they've never tapped one. I've seen more keg beer ruined and wasted by experts than I care to remember.

Good luck.

[lj cm]

I think people have given fine advice and I like to summarize:

It is a fully automated fuel injection system, so you are not supposed to do anything eg. press button.

It will start on gasoline and when the engine coolant temperature is "correct", it will automatically switch to LPG

If you run out of LPG, it will emit a "bip" and automatically switch back to gasoline.

LPG fuel level meters (P12B) are never reliable, so better use your trip odometer.

P05 show the fuel injectors, There should be a sensor on one of the sides, but I can not see it.

As canthai55 said, you change the vaporizer (P10 C), when it starts leaking. About every 40-50 thousand km.

The fuel filter (P11A) is advised to be changed every 40 thousand km.

In the top right corner of pic P15 is a sensor, that will cut off LPG, if the pressure gets to low.

I bring my cars for LPG system check every 10,000 km.