EU: will the new draft proposals keep the UK in the EU?

[webfact]

EU: will the new draft proposals keep the UK in the EU?



"Progress has been made but there is work still to be done"

EU Council President presents proposals
“Progress has been made “ – Cameron
UK referendum possible in June

LONDON: -- The President of the European Council has presented draft proposals aimed at keeping Britain in the EU.

Donald Tusk has been leading negotiations on a new deal to present to European leaders later this month.

David Cameron is trying to renegotiate Britain’s complicated relationship with the European Union.

A referendum is planned on the country’s continued membership, provisionally set for June 23rd.

The UK is concerned about sovereignty, competitiveness, immigration and protection for countries not in the eurozone.

The draft text, which has been published by EU Council President Donald Tusk, is aimed at addressing these concerns.

All 28 EU leaders will have to agree on the reforms at a potentially difficult summit on February 18-19.

Leaders will have to iron-out their differences.

Negotiations are likely to continue up until the February summit.

However, some eurosceptics think the difficulties in getting a deal are being played up to make an eventual agreement seem like a triumph.

The detail

Sources say the proposal will have a legally-binding provision allowing a group of 55% or more member states to either stop EU legislation or demand changes, the so-called “red card system”.

This would address concerns, it is said, that London has handed too much power to Brussels.

The text also includes a clause allowing Britain to curtail some benefit payments to migrants arriving from other EU states for four years.

Known as the ‘emergency brake’, this would begin immediately after a referendum is held.

According to the draft, Britain is facing an “exceptional situation that the proposed safeguard mechanism is intend to cover.”

“The United Kingdom would be justified in triggering the mechanism in the full expectation of obtaining approval.”

People already living in the UK would be exempt.

David Cameron’s response

David Cameron has given his response in a speech.

“I said I wanted a red card system for national parliaments to block legislation, people said you wouldn’t get that, it is there in the document.”

“People said we would not get the idea of people having to wait four years before getting in-work benefits in Britain, it is there in the document.”

“People said you will never really manage to get Britain out of the concept of a closer union. Again, pretty clearly set out in the document.”

“So, real progress, more work to be done, more detail to be nailed down. But we said we needed delivery in four key areas. This document shows we have progressed on that front.”

What the terms mean

Emergency Brake – a clause allowing Britain to suspend some payments to migrants arriving from other EU states for four years.

Red-Card system – a majority of member states are allowed to band together and block legislation they find unacceptable.

A referendum in June?

If there is agreement over the text at the February summit, David Cameron is expected to hold a referendum in June.

The vote will over whether the UK should stay in the EU.

Observers say the stakes are high. The referendum will not only determine Britain’s future role in world affairs, it will also shape the European Union.

The alliance has struggled to maintain unity through the most severe migration and financial crises in its history.

Losing the UK would mean losing its second-largest economy and one of its main military powers.

Latest research suggests the decision to leave would win the vote.

What they are saying

“I suspect the document will be the basis of further work that we need to do in the run-up to the Council. But we will see.” – UK Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond

“What the government is asking for from the EU is trivial. These proposals will not take back control from the EU.” – Mathew Elliot, Chief Executive of Vote Leave.

“UK-EU negotiations meaningless without complete control of borders.”_ – Rupert Murdoch

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-02-03

[eliotness]

I'm sure on the run-up to the vote the media will be flooded with VOTE IN propaganda and there will be a slight majority voting to stay in. I voted in the original EEC vote (NO) and in retrospect I'm surprised how easily people accepted the lies they were told. I expect no difference this time as unfortunately the majority of the UK population are brainwashed by the TV and the Tabloids.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Get out while you have the chance!

[i claudius]

What new proposals? , they told Dave to jump and he hopped off back to Britain , we must leave .

[jesimps]

He's negotiating to get back what we already had before joining what we all thought was going to be the Common Market.

[Asheron]

If, yes a big IF, it goes to a voting the majority will sadly vote for staying in the EU for the very simple reason that the majority of any nations people are quite dumb and lazy and barely manage to tie their shoe laces in the morning.

I bet that not even 30% of the voters have basic knowledge like who make the laws in the EU.

[Ulic]

The new draft proposals, no substance, all spin.

[superal]

For a start , I doubt that the Vote will be mandatory and therefore I think that a turnout that exceeds 60% of the population not probable . Very much will depend on the Cameron changes he has negotiated and his way of selling it to the general public . He could convince turkeys that xmas is good for them . He will not hesitate to put the frighteners on to his listeners if the outcome was to be a NO vote . It will be interesting to hear his comments on immigration as currently the UK population has approximately 15% of non UK born residents with a high number coming from Poland . That is a major voting power . Horse and stable door come to mind . Interesting times .

[denby45]

I say vote IN then there will be no concerns about sovereignty any more because UK will not have it any more. Easy....nothing to worry about.

Den

[Thongkorn]

Mr Cameron is an idiot, its like the old saying , I Am Boss in my House, ASK THE WIFE , how can you have control over your Country when you have to ask for permission from other members, Yes thats democracy, but what about democracy for the Britain people A vote in or out. the mans a lier, he is not listening to the British people he is suppose to be representing. what about the MPs he has stopped from voicing there opinions, right or wrong they have an opinion, the very basis of Democracy.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Thongkorn

[Basil B]

Just a fudge...

It is not just the UK that wants to see reform of the EU

The EU needs to reform itself, needs to go back to basics... understand the purpose to which it was formed.

It would probably take a working group over to years to come up with workable reform of the EU but that is what is needed.

Best thing is call the referendum for June, I suspect when every one sees the the deal negated and realises it is a hollow gesture, so when the out campaign take a commanding lead in the opinion polls we will see some real concessions from the EU.

[Steely Dan]

The only fear I have is that the British electorate may be so busy glued to their iPhones and social media that they don't bother to research whether or not they are being hoodwinked. The deal is no use at all and it is crucial the UK votes to leave.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/briefing-what-is-the-eu-red-card-and-will-it-make-any-difference-at-all/

[arjunadawn]

If anyone would understand the reasons why their voices are not heard they should understand the what context the UK is within. I offer the link below for anyone interested in the background. This site offers a condensed explanation. Supporting information is everywhere.

Unless one understands Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi (award), the Charlemagne Prize, and the PanEuropa goal they will not understand why there appears to be an inexorable plan unfolding for UK and EU (nor why Merkel figures so prominently these days in all things EU). This background is why the UK is exactly where it is today and why it will be near impossible to leave the EU. At best UK leaders will try to pacify the population but the elitist pressure is too great to make any real changes.

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2015/02/ideological-and-geopolitical-origins-of-eu-richard-von-coudenhove-kalergis-pan-europa.html

[7by7]

<snip>

It will be interesting to hear his comments on immigration as currently the UK population has approximately 15% of non UK born residents with a high number coming from Poland . That is a major voting power .

According to table 3 on page 16 of this December 2015 Parliamentary briefing paper in 2014 a total of 13% of the UK population were born outside the UK.

Of that, 8.3% came from outside the EU and 4.7% were born in another EU country; of whom just under half (2%) come from the 8 accession countries who joined the EU in May 2004; which includes Poland.

Many of those born outside the UK have since become British citizens; but not many EU nationals have; see table 2 on page 16 of the briefing paper.

Like in a General Election, only British citizens plus Commonwealth and Irish citizens resident in the UK will be able to vote. (source1, the BBC; source2, The Daily Telegraph)

So the only EU citizens who will be able to vote are those from Ireland, for historical reasons, and both Malta and Cyprus because they are members of the Commonwealth.

Poles and most other EU nationals do not constitute a major voting power in the referendum; simply because they can't vote!

[7by7]

Mr Cameron is an idiot, its like the old saying , I Am Boss in my House, ASK THE WIFE , how can you have control over your Country when you have to ask for permission from other members,

Some examples?

Yes thats democracy, but what about democracy for the Britain people A vote in or out. the mans a lier, he is not listening to the British people he is suppose to be representing.

I'm not a fan of his; but he is giving us, as he promised, a referendum on whether to stay in or get out. So how is he lying?

what about the MPs he has stopped from voicing there opinions, right or wrong they have an opinion, the very basis of Democracy.

He has 'stopped' Ministers from voicing their opinions while negotiations continue, but not backbenchers.

He has stated categorically that once the negotiations are complete and the referendum campaign begins Ministers will be able to speak and campaign for whichever side, In or Out, they support.

[Basil B]

I want the UK to remain in the EU but what DC has negotiated is just smoke and mirrors, the benefits issue is of only a small part of what needs sorting out...

And on that issue the UK should pay benefits the same for any migrant as for any UK citizen for those benefits based on tax and NI contributions, the payments paid because a person and their dependants have no income or other means should be paid by there own country, like wise the UK should be responsible for paying for Brits in other EU countries.

One the issue of EU reform DC has been as much use as a condom machine in a convent...

[7by7]

If anyone would understand the reasons why their voices are not heard they should understand the what context the UK is within. I offer the link below for anyone interested in the background. This site offers a condensed explanation. Supporting information is everywhere.

Unless one understands Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi (award), the Charlemagne Prize, and the PanEuropa goal they will not understand why there appears to be an inexorable plan unfolding for UK and EU (nor why Merkel figures so prominently these days in all things EU). This background is why the UK is exactly where it is today and why it will be near impossible to leave the EU. At best UK leaders will try to pacify the population but the elitist pressure is too great to make any real changes.

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2015/02/ideological-and-geopolitical-origins-of-eu-richard-von-coudenhove-kalergis-pan-europa.html

A link from a Canadian white supremacist organisation? (Don't take my word for it; read their own Beliefs and Goals page!)

Really?

Were I to offer up The history of the European Union from the EU itself as independent evidence in the way you have offered your link I would, rightfully, be laughed out of this topic.

[Baerboxer]

If anyone would understand the reasons why their voices are not heard they should understand the what context the UK is within. I offer the link below for anyone interested in the background. This site offers a condensed explanation. Supporting information is everywhere.

Unless one understands Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi (award), the Charlemagne Prize, and the PanEuropa goal they will not understand why there appears to be an inexorable plan unfolding for UK and EU (nor why Merkel figures so prominently these days in all things EU). This background is why the UK is exactly where it is today and why it will be near impossible to leave the EU. At best UK leaders will try to pacify the population but the elitist pressure is too great to make any real changes.

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2015/02/ideological-and-geopolitical-origins-of-eu-richard-von-coudenhove-kalergis-pan-europa.html

Correct. And Mutti Merkel, the former communist youth leader, Stassi spy and active member of the DDR, just happens to lead the big pro federalist Europe movement, along with those in her party. Interesting they call themselves Christian Democrats. A bit like the for Democratic People's Republics that were communist totalitarian dictatorships.

A federal EU government would govern not serve the people. And has one of Merkel's cronies said "elections can't be allowed to change things". If they were right wing, that sort of comment would be seized on. As they're really left, it's accepted somehow as reasonable, in the interests of the visionary utopia. Stuff what the people want.

Why do you think EU countries and UK in particular have been slowly but surely disarming their populations - neutering the sheep.

Multiculturalism, radical Islam, destroying old cultures and traditions and doing nothing to support religion or heritage are all part of their tool kit. They want a new Europe, controlled by the left, through bureaucracy, rules, regulations, and restrictions of freedoms. Part of this entails the destruction of the middle classes.

[Baerboxer]

If anyone would understand the reasons why their voices are not heard they should understand the what context the UK is within. I offer the link below for anyone interested in the background. This site offers a condensed explanation. Supporting information is everywhere.

Unless one understands Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi (award), the Charlemagne Prize, and the PanEuropa goal they will not understand why there appears to be an inexorable plan unfolding for UK and EU (nor why Merkel figures so prominently these days in all things EU). This background is why the UK is exactly where it is today and why it will be near impossible to leave the EU. At best UK leaders will try to pacify the population but the elitist pressure is too great to make any real changes.

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2015/02/ideological-and-geopolitical-origins-of-eu-richard-von-coudenhove-kalergis-pan-europa.html

A link from a Canadian white supremacist organisation? (Don't take my word for it; read their own Beliefs and Goals page!)

Really?

Were I to offer up The history of the European Union from the EU itself as independent evidence in the way you have offered your link I would, rightfully, be laughed out of this topic.

No doubt many organizations of differing extreme views will comment on what's happening in Europe.

But there is no denying some politicians and political parties are hell bent on a federal Europe. And Mrs Merkel is certainly one of them.

[MAJIC]

<snip>

It will be interesting to hear his comments on immigration as currently the UK population has approximately 15% of non UK born residents with a high number coming from Poland . That is a major voting power .

According to table 3 on page 16 of this December 2015 Parliamentary briefing paper in 2014 a total of 13% of the UK population were born outside the UK.

Of that, 8.3% came from outside the EU and 4.7% were born in another EU country; of whom just under half (2%) come from the 8 accession countries who joined the EU in May 2004; which includes Poland.

Many of those born outside the UK have since become British citizens; but not many EU nationals have; see table 2 on page 16 of the briefing paper.

Like in a General Election, only British citizens plus Commonwealth and Irish citizens resident in the UK will be able to vote. (source1, the BBC; source2, The Daily Telegraph)

So the only EU citizens who will be able to vote are those from Ireland, for historical reasons, and both Malta and Cyprus because they are members of the Commonwealth.

Poles and most other EU nationals do not constitute a major voting power in the referendum; simply because they can't vote!

There are some other considerations according to the Guardian !

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/13/britain-eu-referendum-who-gets-to-vote-deciding-factor

[MAJIC]

<snip>

It will be interesting to hear his comments on immigration as currently the UK population has approximately 15% of non UK born residents with a high number coming from Poland . That is a major voting power .

According to table 3 on page 16 of this December 2015 Parliamentary briefing paper in 2014 a total of 13% of the UK population were born outside the UK.

Of that, 8.3% came from outside the EU and 4.7% were born in another EU country; of whom just under half (2%) come from the 8 accession countries who joined the EU in May 2004; which includes Poland.

Many of those born outside the UK have since become British citizens; but not many EU nationals have; see table 2 on page 16 of the briefing paper.

Like in a General Election, only British citizens plus Commonwealth and Irish citizens resident in the UK will be able to vote. (source1, the BBC; source2, The Daily Telegraph)

So the only EU citizens who will be able to vote are those from Ireland, for historical reasons, and both Malta and Cyprus because they are members of the Commonwealth.

Poles and most other EU nationals do not constitute a major voting power in the referendum; simply because they can't vote!

According to the Guardian there are many other considerations.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/13/britain-eu-referendum-who-gets-to-vote-deciding-factor

[MAJIC]

@ 7by7 Post No 14

According to the Guardian there are many other considerations.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/13/britain-eu-referendum-who-gets-to-vote-deciding-factor

[nontabury]

Can you imagine if we were not already in the EU and we were voting on whether to join this corrupt Union.

If the politicians were honest( ok I know impossible) and said to the electorate

Vote for in,then you will get =

1/ 70% of your laws made,not by your parliament,but by undemocratic eurocrats In Brussels.

2/ your fishing grounds will be open to 28 other countries.

3/ you will have no control over your own borders,allowing many undesirables to enter.

4/ you cannot make your own trade deals with your traditional partners( the Commonwealth) or with the wider world.

5/ you will not be able to support your industries from unfair competition.

6/ feel free to add any more examples.

And for this you will have to pay the EU £55 million a day.

Would these be vote winners?

[pedro01]

“I said I wanted a red card system for national parliaments to block legislation, people said you wouldn’t get that, it is there in the document.”

He didn't get that at all. The UK cannot block legislation on it's own - it needs consensus from Europe to block err.... European legislation.

[tomacht8]

I think it would be a pity if the Uk would leave europe.
If the majority of UK people want it, then it should be so.

It is time that Europe formed as a block.
The Muslim civil war is really transported to all countries of europe now.

A good solution would be if Europe forms a block in Europe with the Russians.
Then we should take the laws of Japan regarding Muslim immigration.

This has nothing to do with xenophobia, but this is a strategy of how Europe can survive this madness in the next decades.

[MAJIC]

Sorry about my repeat posts, every time I posted it disappeared !

[Richard W]

“I said I wanted a red card system for national parliaments to block legislation, people said you wouldn’t get that, it is there in the document.”

He didn't get that at all. The UK cannot block legislation on it's own - it needs consensus from Europe to block err.... European legislation.

I'm confused. Does this mean that besides approval by the European Parliament, legislation now has to be approved in the Council of Ministers? Or does it mean that national governments in concert would have the right to repeal European legislation?

He's negotiating to get back what we already had before joining what we all thought was going to be the Common Market.

When do you think we lost what he's trying to get back that we didn't lose when we joined?

[happy Joe]

For me there is no hesitation, Britain should leave the European Union to find his true status of US vassal.

Americans will be happy.

The Britanniques citizens will be happy.

Residents of other countries in Europe will be very happy.

And me too...

[Grouse]

Of course the UK will and should stay in

Read the FT or Economist if you don't understand why

Even Boris is back on side

[Asheron]

Of course the UK will and should stay in

Read the FT or Economist if you don't understand why

Even Boris is back on side

The "it's economy stupid" reason for staying in EU just that: dumb. I don't see any economic issues for Norway or Switzerland and they aren't in the EU.

"'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."