Ambassador: US to continue South China Sea flights, sail-bys

[webfact]

Ambassador: US to continue South China Sea flights, sail-bys

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The U.S. ambassador said Wednesday joint patrols with the Philippines are possible in the South China Sea, where the United States has asserted its freedom to navigate by sending planes and ships into China-claimed areas.

Manila protested when a commercial Chinese aircraft landed recently on one of several artificial islands Beijing has built in the Spratlys, and officials say China has essentially declared an air defense identification zone over the sea by issuing "provocative" challenges to Philippine military flights in the area.

Ambassador Philip Goldberg said the U.S. and the Philippines both have deep interest in ensuring freedom of navigation and he is not discarding the possibility of joint patrols in the area.

Two U.S. warships have sailed by China-claimed islands in the Spratly and Paracel island chains since October.

"I am not going to announce beforehand what we do in terms of freedom of navigation, but suffice it to say that the United States will follow international law, will continue to enjoy our rights under international law to sail through international waters or fly to international air space," Goldberg told a media forum.

Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said last week the officials discussing possible joint patrols were looking at an area within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone.

"I am not going to prejudge what we are going to do and when we are going to do it, whether we are going to do it with the Philippines or with others, but we do discuss that principle with the Philippines and so I am not discarding that possibility," Goldberg added when asked if a proposal for U.S. joint patrols with the Philippines has been approved.

Six Asian governments are vying for control of small islands and shoals in seas that is a thoroughfare for about one-third of world trade. The U.S. is looking to support the ill-equipped Philippine military and counter assertive Chinese action.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-02-03

[callaway]

Good on ya fellas. Keep it up and get Australia and others involved. Let the bully boys realize what they are doing is wrong. If they are not stopped here then there will be havoc for neighbouring countries of this regime. Time they get a slappin.

[boomerangutang]

I would do more. If I had gold-colored stars and bars on my epulets and sleeves, I'd get a joint international coalition, mainly Filipino Navy to go and pay the Chinese occupiers a terse visit. I'd say, "pack up and leave peacefully and permanently, or you'll leave the painful way." I would then campaign to get the islands declared an International Marine Preserve. We humans have cause more than enough damage to the planet already, let's leave a little bit for other species.

[CoreanoOzzie]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

[wwest5829]

Good on ya fellas. Keep it up and get Australia and others involved. Let the bully boys realize what they are doing is wrong. If they are not stopped here then there will be havoc for neighbouring countries of this regime. Time they get a slappin. [/quote

Let us not talk about, "slappin" as that is a aggressive action. The US, and other nations should simply continue to sail and fly in accord with international law. That leaves it in the hands of the PRC. Any aggressive action on their part should receive the full censorship of signatories of the Law of the Sea treaty (of which China is on one!). Depending on any aggressive action by China, a full equal response would be warranted. Any nation unilaterally declaring sovereignty over territory long claimed by others is to be condemned...here in the South China Sea or Crimea, for that matter.

Edited February 4, 2016 by wwest5829

[Credo]

It's a little like building a house in the median of a divided highway and then complaining that the traffic is bothering you.

[boomerangutang]

Good on ya fellas. Keep it up and get Australia and others involved. Let the bully boys realize what they are doing is wrong. If they are not stopped here then there will be havoc for neighbouring countries of this regime. Time they get a slappin. [/quote

Let us not talk about, "slappin" as that is a aggressive action. The US, and other nations should simply continue to sail and fly in accord with international law. That leaves it in the hands of the PRC. Any aggressive action on their part should receive the full censorship of signatories of the Law of the Sea treaty (of which China is on one!). Depending on any aggressive action by China, a full equal response would be warranted. Any nation unilaterally declaring sovereignty over territory long claimed by others is to be condemned...here in the South China Sea or Crimea, for that matter.

You're talking about aggressive action (by China) in the conditional or future tense. It's already happening, dude. If I walk in your house and set up a tent in your living room, and take over your kitchen and bathroom, that's aggressive action. It may not be as aggressive as charging into your house waving a sword, but it has the same effect. Every week that the US and Philippines stand by with their hands in their pockets, is another week the Chinese can tear up coral reefs, pour concrete, and move more troops and guns down there. Better to have some military action now, than a lot more intense military action later. It's gonna happen. To any Chinese sleeping on the commandeered islands: wear your hardhat to bed and keep a loaded pistol on the nightstand.

[LawrenceChee]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

Same strategy that yielded no results in the Middle East except making the weapons industry richer

Have you seen how densely packed Chinese cities are ? Where are you suggesting to bomb to make a message without killing the innocent ?

[LawrenceChee]

I would do more. If I had gold-colored stars and bars on my epulets and sleeves, I'd get a joint international coalition, mainly Filipino Navy to go and pay the Chinese occupiers a terse visit. I'd say, "pack up and leave peacefully and permanently, or you'll leave the painful way." I would then campaign to get the islands declared an International Marine Preserve. We humans have cause more than enough damage to the planet already, let's leave a little bit for other species.

U will need a Chinese visa to visit I am not sure if they will issue them one Edited February 5, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[CoreanoOzzie]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

Same strategy that yielded no results in the Middle East except making the weapons industry richer

Have you seen how densely packed Chinese cities are ? Where are you suggesting to bomb to make a message without killing the innocent ?

Out on the water obviously. The ships that block Filipino vessels from entering their own land for starters........

Edited February 5, 2016 by CoreanoOzzie

[LawrenceChee]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

Same strategy that yielded no results in the Middle East except making the weapons industry richer

Have you seen how densely packed Chinese cities are ? Where are you suggesting to bomb to make a message without killing the innocent ?

Out on the water obviously. The ships that block Filipino vessels from entering their own land for starters........

Give the Chinese some credit they won't be blocking anything ....it's a huge water space and I don't think the Filipinos will be sending any mango or banana trees there in a hurry for a plantation

[craigt3365]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

Same strategy that yielded no results in the Middle East except making the weapons industry richer

Have you seen how densely packed Chinese cities are ? Where are you suggesting to bomb to make a message without killing the innocent ?

Out on the water obviously. The ships that block Filipino vessels from entering their own land for starters........

Give the Chinese some credit they won't be blocking anything ....it's a huge water space and I don't think the Filipinos will be sending any mango or banana trees there in a hurry for a plantation

Seems they were blocking the Philippine navy. I'd like to see the Chinese try that on an American navy ship....easy to pick on the weak.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26806924

http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/03/10/15/chinese-ships-try-block-navy-supply-vessel-anew

[Publicus]

US Navy ships will continue to transverse the international waters of the South China Sea. Chinese law over the high seas means nothing, especially when Beijing signs the Treaty on the ILOS then ignores it saying CCP law is superior to all laws everywhere by anyone and there's nothing more to discuss.

Australia has sent recon planes over the SCS as will Japan. US and the Philippines are moving to organise joint patrols. Manila now says they would not have this problem with the CCP had it not thrown out the US from Philippine bases 25 years ago. Let it be a lesson to other militaries and governments of Asean.

Early last year CCP Dictators in Beijing said they would establish an Air Defense Identification Zone over the SCS. This was after their surprise ADIZ in the East Sea against Japan and South Korea. That one became swiss cheese two days later as US flew a B-52 through it. US, Japan, S Korea continue to fly through it at will since. Same is happening in SCS without a formal declaration by CCP of an ADIZ over it. We're flying and sending ships through everything CCP claims on its own whims.

US Navy is gonna get close up enough of the artificial islands to buy fish from the PLA Navy. USN certainly gets paid a lot more so the fish had better be good.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

Chinese commandeered Tibet. They want Taiwan and have hundreds of missiles pointed at that island. Now they want islands which are twice as far from China as they are from other countries which own them. Shit's gonna hit the fan. No navy wants to go up against the USN unless it has a death wish. Chinese tech is 15 to 25 yrs behind the US's. The US had been developing subs and aircraft carriers 100 yrs before the Chinese.

[craigt3365]

I was in Tibet several years ago. There is a museum and it talks about how Tibet wanted to become part of China. Brushes over everything. Amazing they get away with this crap.

While there, I bought a "free tibet" t-shirt. My guide wouldn't let me wear it. Said I'd for sure get arrested. So much for freedom of speech there...

[CoreanoOzzie]

Just bomb the Chinese, they need to be taught a lesson to not be bully-boys.

Same strategy that yielded no results in the Middle East except making the weapons industry richer

Have you seen how densely packed Chinese cities are ? Where are you suggesting to bomb to make a message without killing the innocent ?

Out on the water obviously. The ships that block Filipino vessels from entering their own land for starters........

Give the Chinese some credit they won't be blocking anything ....it's a huge water space and I don't think the Filipinos will be sending any mango or banana trees there in a hurry for a plantation

The Chinese Navy won't be blocking anything? What are you smoking?

[Credo]

I was in Tibet several years ago. There is a museum and it talks about how Tibet wanted to become part of China. Brushes over everything. Amazing they get away with this crap.

While there, I bought a "free tibet" t-shirt. My guide wouldn't let me wear it. Said I'd for sure get arrested. So much for freedom of speech there...

Freedom of speech is not a part of the Chinese gov't. I don't think people said what they wanted to the Emperors in the past.

The problem with this expansionism is that along with claiming this reef-cum-island is that then starts the territorial water right of way.

This will likely not end well.

[CoreanoOzzie]

The Chinese are bullies in Asia and are spreading like vermin throughout the rest of the world. Look at how they are snapping up all of the property in western nations thus driving up the prices and forcing natives to be priced out of the housing market...

[Publicus]

 

I was in Tibet several years ago. There is a museum and it talks about how Tibet wanted to become part of China. Brushes over everything. Amazing they get away with this crap.

While there, I bought a "free tibet" t-shirt. My guide wouldn't let me wear it. Said I'd for sure get arrested. So much for freedom of speech there...

Freedom of speech is not a part of the Chinese gov't. I don't think people said what they wanted to the Emperors in the past.

The problem with this expansionism is that along with claiming this reef-cum-island is that then starts the territorial water right of way.

This will likely not end well.

Au contraire this will end very well.

It will take time and it won't be pretty but the CCP Boyz were anyway overdue for a lesson.

Beijing just again moved their giant oil rig into Vietnam waters, as if the anti-Chinese riots throughout Vietnam last year hadn't been enough of a public reaction to CCP territorial aggression. Vietnam's new leader just confirmed last month had already visited Washington to sign new "strategic agreements" with President Obama. The Hanoi pro-CCP faction lost out again and looks beat for good. Hence this latest test by the belligerent Boyz of Beijing.

Beijing for a year and a half has has a "research vessel" positioned in Malaysia territorial waters which has caused Kuala Lumpur to sign new strategic agreements with the US and with India. India does have approval by Hanoi to explore in Vietnam territorial waters. India accepted the invitation despite very loud demands from Bejing that it not do it. India is welcomed by Hanoi, China is not.

CCP in Beijing are simply a dynasty of emperors in business suits who live by a mid-19th century Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, Deng Xiaoping nonsense. Deng's cautions to build strength silently has been tossed aside by the impatient CCP who just can't wait to establish a 21st century Middle Kingdom.

It will get messy but it will indeed end very well. Just not for the CCP Boyz.

[boomerangutang]

One possible next stage - in the ramping up of tensions, is one or the other side taking hostages/prisoners. N.Korea did it decades ago when they commandeered a US Navy ship. Similar could happen if a Chinese ship was overpowered and forced to berth at a Filipine port. Filipinos and others have to acknowledge that, even though they're not as big and strong as the Chinese navy, they can still stand up to them on some levels. Plus, Filipinos have the US on their side. I'm not advocating increased tensions, but I feel tension build-up is inevitable. China keeps upping the stakes. Not long ago they announced the rock islands were theirs. A little while later they started terra-forming. Now they're destroying coral reefs, building airstrips and putting in gun emplacements. They'll keep going, meter by meter, toward their goal of total domination of that region. At what point will the other side band together and put up resistance? The longer China's adversaries tarry, the more entrenched the Chinese will be.

Meanwhile, in every public statement about the build-up, the Chinese say the following:

>>> Everyone be patient (sure, the longer the rest of the world is patient, the more the Chinese can pour concrete)

>>> No, we won't negotiate with any countries or sign any treaties, unless we get 100% of what we want.

>>> No, we don't want any of this business taken to the UN or Maritime jurists

>>> Western countries, particularly the US, stay out of this. This is not your concern.

>>> Don't fly planes or bring ships near the islands.

[Rancid]

Naturally don't agree with the Chinese island grabbing, but perhaps the armchair generals are getting a little too confident that the US will be able to bitch slap them.

My understanding is that the Chinese have the capability via subs and land to sea missiles to sink a carrier group. If so how hard will the US actually push? They also have the Russian air defence system, so there would be no easy bombing runs like the ME.

As to Oz, don't see that as our problem. The more we try and act tough the more ridiculous we look, without the world bully standing behind us we are a pissant military power and all of Asia knows it.

About time we again had an independent foreign policy that serves our interests and not the US. Should bail that idiot TPP as well.

[craigt3365]

Naturally don't agree with the Chinese island grabbing, but perhaps the armchair generals are getting a little too confident that the US will be able to bitch slap them.

My understanding is that the Chinese have the capability via subs and land to sea missiles to sink a carrier group. If so how hard will the US actually push? They also have the Russian air defence system, so there would be no easy bombing runs like the ME.

As to Oz, don't see that as our problem. The more we try and act tough the more ridiculous we look, without the world bully standing behind us we are a pissant military power and all of Asia knows it.

About time we again had an independent foreign policy that serves our interests and not the US. Should bail that idiot TPP as well.

Australian vessels sail through those waters also. How would you like it if they started stopping your vessels and making them take a different, and potentially, longer route. Costing more money and driving up the prices in your country???

It's not always about the US.

[LawrenceChee]

I was in Tibet several years ago. There is a museum and it talks about how Tibet wanted to become part of China. Brushes over everything. Amazing they get away with this crap.

While there, I bought a "free tibet" t-shirt. My guide wouldn't let me wear it. Said I'd for sure get arrested. So much for freedom of speech there...

Freedom of speech is not a part of the Chinese gov't. I don't think people said what they wanted to the Emperors in the past.

The problem with this expansionism is that along with claiming this reef-cum-island is that then starts the territorial water right of way.

This will likely not end well.

The flip side of this freedom of speech is everyone wants to talk even if it makes no sense ...try posting something against the kingdom or the general junta here if you have no common sense or lack basic understanding of cultural norms

It's like this in Asia ....if you don't like it you can probably hide behind a VPN or head back to the west where you have complete sense of "freedom" but wait for some that would ruin the pension payouts which is insufficient to survive ....

[LawrenceChee]

The irritating reality is while the Chinese continues to talk ...the west are the ones pushing the cowboy attitude trying to spurt on a fight

Reminds us of the dumb mentality they had in ME where they thought they could go in bomb it in beautiful CNN sequential runs and then head home in glory

Turns out the amount of bombing and al the technology mattered nothing ....at the end of the day the USA or the west have no capability on the ground to sustain and win the grounds

Same scenario here ....Chinese been here for 5000 years and they wont be going away and they know as Long as they talk and the west is the first to fire the media paints you as the dumb nuts

[wwest5829]

Good on ya fellas. Keep it up and get Australia and others involved. Let the bully boys realize what they are doing is wrong. If they are not stopped here then there will be havoc for neighbouring countries of this regime. Time they get a slappin. [/quote


Let us not talk about, "slappin" as that is a aggressive action. The US, and other nations should simply continue to sail and fly in accord with international law. That leaves it in the hands of the PRC. Any aggressive action on their part should receive the full censorship of signatories of the Law of the Sea treaty (of which China is on one!). Depending on any aggressive action by China, a full equal response would be warranted. Any nation unilaterally declaring sovereignty over territory long claimed by others is to be condemned...here in the South China Sea or Crimea, for that matter.

You're talking about aggressive action (by China) in the conditional or future tense. It's already happening, dude. If I walk in your house and set up a tent in your living room, and take over your kitchen and bathroom, that's aggressive action. It may not be as aggressive as charging into your house waving a sword, but it has the same effect. Every week that the US and Philippines stand by with their hands in their pockets, is another week the Chinese can tear up coral reefs, pour concrete, and move more troops and guns down there. Better to have some military action now, than a lot more intense military action later. It's gonna happen. To any Chinese sleeping on the commandeered islands: wear your hardhat to bed and keep a loaded pistol on the nightstand.

Thanks for the invite but my country already has overstepped militarily speaking. The majority of discretionary spending is already being spent on the military. Regional approach lead with US playing a supporting role. As to our interests, we will continue to sail, fly freely in accord with international law. No, I would oppose any military actio, thanks anyway.

[boomerangutang]

The irritating reality is while the Chinese continues to talk ...the west are the ones pushing the cowboy attitude trying to spurt on a fight

Reminds us of the dumb mentality they had in ME where they thought they could go in bomb it in beautiful CNN sequential runs and then head home in glory

Turns out the amount of bombing and al the technology mattered nothing ....at the end of the day the USA or the west have no capability on the ground to sustain and win the grounds

Same scenario here ....Chinese been here for 5000 years and they wont be going away and they know as Long as they talk and the west is the first to fire the media paints you as the dumb nuts

Where is 'here'? For sure, the Chinese have been in China for thousands of years. But we're talking about the little islands off the Philippine coast. Those islands are several times the distance to Hainan, as they are to the Philippines. China is simply using its weight to take them over.

If all the countries who are pissed at China's land grabs would get coordinated, it would be an awesome force. I'm talking Japanese, Phils, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam. They might not even need the US alongside, but it would be helpful to the the world's most powerful navy as part of the mix.

China is becoming, in Asia, what Japan was in the 1930's and '40's. Lusting after property and resources. China is also engaged in a multi-faceted glad-handing, particularly with Thailand. Selling submarines to Thailand is not just about making money. Every time there is talk of discussions (about China's land-grabs) China says it doesn't want to discuss it on any international level. It will talk to individual countries (without US involvement) and it will also waste as much time as possible. The more time which slips by, the more advantageous for China - because it gives China longer to build up its Navy and to pour concrete on the Philippine's rock islands.

[Publicus]

 

I was in Tibet several years ago. There is a museum and it talks about how Tibet wanted to become part of China. Brushes over everything. Amazing they get away with this crap.

While there, I bought a "free tibet" t-shirt. My guide wouldn't let me wear it. Said I'd for sure get arrested. So much for freedom of speech there...

Freedom of speech is not a part of the Chinese gov't. I don't think people said what they wanted to the Emperors in the past.

The problem with this expansionism is that along with claiming this reef-cum-island is that then starts the territorial water right of way.

This will likely not end well.

The flip side of this freedom of speech is everyone wants to talk even if it makes no sense ...try posting something against the kingdom or the general junta here if you have no common sense or lack basic understanding of cultural norms

It's like this in Asia ....if you don't like it you can probably hide behind a VPN or head back to the west where you have complete sense of "freedom" but wait for some that would ruin the pension payouts which is insufficient to survive ....

Reality is that this will end well for the good guyz which means it will not end well for the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Those who run their own style of interference for 'em won't be too pleased either.

The trouble with free speech as far as dictators are concerned is that free speech is fundementally a creation of classic Western liberalism. So those in the Old World who demand respect of their own ancient if decrepit culture need to render some concomitant respect toward other cultures, such as the Western liberal and Judeo-Christian traditions to include as they currently manifest. Inability to do so indicates the surviving ancient culture has not grown or developed while the free one has done so and continues to evolve.

Surpression of free speech or thought by the CCP Dictators in Beijing is at new and unprecedented levels as their economy goes south and as the Chinese (Lunar) New Year occurs. So its supporters need fear not. At least for the time being.

VPN is in this context a means of free speech which makes it a vital necessity. Yet even vpn must piggyback the internet which CCP censors can close off at will to any individual they disapprove of. This is due to CCP controlling the China internet in CCP China.

What the CCP Chinese people do not know fills volumes stacked to no end. Autocrats and tyrants love it. So do their underlings.

[Publicus]

 

The irritating reality is while the Chinese continues to talk ...the west are the ones pushing the cowboy attitude trying to spurt on a fight

Reminds us of the dumb mentality they had in ME where they thought they could go in bomb it in beautiful CNN sequential runs and then head home in glory

Turns out the amount of bombing and al the technology mattered nothing ....at the end of the day the USA or the west have no capability on the ground to sustain and win the grounds

Same scenario here ....Chinese been here for 5000 years and they wont be going away and they know as Long as they talk and the west is the first to fire the media paints you as the dumb nuts

Some people are still fighting the last war back there in the ME. This is CCP Dictators in Beijing, the South China Sea, the East Sea, the Western Pacific Ocean, the Indian Ocean and the 21st century reality of Air-Sea Battle. So do try to keep up.

CCP Dictators and their flack men aren't fooling anyone. They have since the Beijing Olympics been moving about and striking out in the region against their neighbors. CCP Dictators have been beligerent and bellicose, aggressive and arrogant towards Japan, Asean, Australia and the United States.

Washington has now sent a naval posse to the SCS and made new strategic agreements with very willing governments of the region, in addition to having formal mutual defense treaties with Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Thailand. Thailand is in its own world during current times but all things come to their end.

India has signed new strategic agreements with the US, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Australia. The US has new agreements with India, Malaysia, Vietnam.

The recent Freedom of Navigation exercise Saturday a week ago involved an island Taiwan has jurisdiction over which brings them into the picture much to the dismay of CCP. The Taiwan election last month returned the independence Democratic Progressive Party to the presidency and control of parliament which means new ulcers in Beijing.

Come in from the sands and the desert to the blue waters of the Western Pacific from Japan to Taiwan and Australia over to India and back again to the SCS and the US Navy and Air Force. Whatever CCP claims we're going to fly over it and send navy guided missile destroyers through it.

Get used to it or you'll be getting ulcers too. Five thousand years of dictatorship in China is getting squeezed out.

[CoreanoOzzie]

The irritating reality is while the Chinese continues to talk ...the west are the ones pushing the cowboy attitude trying to spurt on a fight

Reminds us of the dumb mentality they had in ME where they thought they could go in bomb it in beautiful CNN sequential runs and then head home in glory

Turns out the amount of bombing and al the technology mattered nothing ....at the end of the day the USA or the west have no capability on the ground to sustain and win the grounds

Same scenario here ....Chinese been here for 5000 years and they wont be going away and they know as Long as they talk and the west is the first to fire the media paints you as the dumb nuts

Safe to say that you are of Chinese extraction.....defending your brethren.

[CoreanoOzzie]

The irritating reality is while the Chinese continues to talk ...the west are the ones pushing the cowboy attitude trying to spurt on a fight

Reminds us of the dumb mentality they had in ME where they thought they could go in bomb it in beautiful CNN sequential runs and then head home in glory

Turns out the amount of bombing and al the technology mattered nothing ....at the end of the day the USA or the west have no capability on the ground to sustain and win the grounds

Same scenario here ....Chinese been here for 5000 years and they wont be going away and they know as Long as they talk and the west is the first to fire the media paints you as the dumb nuts

Where is 'here'? For sure, the Chinese have been in China for thousands of years. But we're talking about the little islands off the Philippine coast. Those islands are several times the distance to Hainan, as they are to the Philippines. China is simply using its weight to take them over.

If all the countries who are pissed at China's land grabs would get coordinated, it would be an awesome force. I'm talking Japanese, Phils, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam. They might not even need the US alongside, but it would be helpful to the the world's most powerful navy as part of the mix.

China is becoming, in Asia, what Japan was in the 1930's and '40's. Lusting after property and resources. China is also engaged in a multi-faceted glad-handing, particularly with Thailand. Selling submarines to Thailand is not just about making money. Every time there is talk of discussions (about China's land-grabs) China says it doesn't want to discuss it on any international level. It will talk to individual countries (without US involvement) and it will also waste as much time as possible. The more time which slips by, the more advantageous for China - because it gives China longer to build up its Navy and to pour concrete on the Philippine's rock islands.

Well said. A few nukes would sort things out methinks...