Top U.S. general: North Korea 'would use WMD' to save regime

[tonbridgebrit]

Seems like the US of A starts perpetration of another stupid invasion....

Washington is not that stupid, they won't make the same mistake as thirteen years ago.

Invading Kim, and removing him is the easy bit. They know that what happens AFTER Kim has gone is the real problem. Best to just leave Kim there, and actually prop him up with free rice and crude oil. The government of South Korea, truth is, they don't actually want to bail out North Korea once Kim has gone. It cost West Germany loads to subsdise Eastern Germany after they re-unified.

My repeated requests that you do really try to keep up are not being heeded so you'll have to be brought up to date.

US and CCP leaders have met privately as a matter of state secrets to agree what to do --and to not do-- when North Korea collapses.

It is of a mutually vital importance that Beijing and Washington know what to expect and to proceed according to a mutually understood agreement or understanding. All of which are, again, state secrets for Beijing and Washington. Pyongyang isn't about to bring them up publicly either and neither is Seoul. Seoul has to know what to expect and do also as that too is of a vital importance.

As we know, the Chinese don't go to the bathroom without a five-point plan.....

China's secret plan for North Korea's collapse

May 6, 2014

Publicus, you have turned up here and put up a 'secret plan' regarding what Beijing will do when or if the North Korea regime collapses. Publicus, you have ignored the massive issue as to what Washington should do regarding Kim's WMD. Okay, I will now raise two massive issues regarding Kim's WMD, these issues hold true whether or not your writing about China's 'secret plans' are true or not.

Issue One.

Kim has got (or will have) WMD, what is Washington going to do about it ?? Is Washngton going to sit back and do nothing ? Just let Kim build a few more nukes ? This is simply not an option. South Korea is NOT comfortable with Kim having nukes, I certainly would not want to live in South Korea if Kim has got a load of nukes. Some American general has said (on the OP) that Kim is willing to use them, so, the issue is not going away.

Okay, my suggestion is, is to give Kim rice and oil, and bribe him to NOT build nukes, and to scrap the existing WMD. One million tons of rice, and one hundred million barrels of crude oil. That way, Kim will no longer have his nukes, and we all feel safer.

Another option is to invade North Korea, kick Kim's ass, remove him, remove the nukes, sort it out once and for all ? I think this would be a massive mistake by America, an absolute disaster.

Issue Two.

You talked about building 'refugee camps' in China and South Korea for the Korean refugees once they appear after Kim's regime collapses. Well, those refugees can stay there for a few weeks or months, but then what ? They can't stay in them camps for months and months. They've got to go somewhere. Are they going to head back to North Korea without Kim's regime there ? Let's get real, off-course, Korea will become re-unified, with South Korea bailing out and subsidising North Korea. Same as West and East Germany. It's going to cost a lot of money to do this.

Now then, bearing in mind the two massive issues I've just raised, two issues that are not going away, no matter what anybody says, what are they going to do ?

Surely, propping up Kim's regime, give him oil and rice, watch him scrap his nukes, let him carry on being in charge of North Korea, that IS the best way forward ?

In fifty years time, Kim will be an old man, grey hair or little hair, still in charge of North Korea, that's good for South Korea AND Washington, right ?

You mentioned about how no way will PLA forces fight US forces, well, I hope you're right. I certainly do NOT wish to see Washington fight World War Three with Beijing, because a load of Koreans want to kill another load of Koreans. How about let them kill each other, as long as no World War Three breaks out, well, things are okay.

It's like them Chinese in the Peoples' Republic of China wanting to kill them Chinese in the Republic of China, because one lot want to declare independance. How about let them get on with it, as long as we don't see America fighting China (and Russia) in a World War Three, who cares ?

And some Middle East Arabs want to fight against other Middle East Arabs, how about let them do it ? As long as it doesn't cause World War Three to break out, let them do it.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[ddavidovsky]

Of course N. Korea would fight back if threatened. If unthreatened, then there's no way N. Korea would strike first.

Is this general considering the possibility of attacking them? He is sounding as unstable as Gen. Jack D. Ripper in Dr Strangelove.

Just leave N. Korea alone. Their system will crumble eventually.

[puukao]

three letters:

E

M

P

don't worry, i'm on it!!!

[Publicus]

Obama and his devoted wingnuts (more than a few right here...) remain committed, much like an addiction to drugs, to the "weakness is a strength" doctrine. Sure has worked with the Chinese in the S China Sea, hasn't it? (Boy did I call that one right! SAM alrdy there; fighters on the way.) What to do? Duh. Deploy more troops, more aircraft, and most important (and obvious) - deploy additional BMD, land and ship based. Let the psycho rant - he's a child in a fat man's body.

The Obama administration and its theatre military commanders have done a much better job of North Korea and global peace in general than did GW Bush and his Dick Cheney; Rumsfeld too.

The right that favors Trump for the R party nomination and for Potus would not only take us back to the Bush-Dick administration, they'd take us to the administrations of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon who respectively started then prolonged the disastrous Vietnam war. Disastrous to the US and to Vietnam.

The four-star we're discussing, General Curtis Scaparrotti, who is Supreme Commander, US-ROK Combined Forces Command, is a graduate of USMA West Point, the US Army War College, the Armed Forces Command and General Staff College, and is a former commanding general of the elite 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq and he commanded all forces in the eastern half of Afghanistan. He knows war.

Trump doesn't know up from down never mind north from south.....

Trump's obsession with WW2 generals strikes sour note with historians

Presidential candidate Donald Trump admires the late Douglas MacArthur and George Patton, both World War Two generals. They were winners, unpredictable, and not especially nice guys, he says in campaign speeches. But Trump's pledge to imitate their styles sets modern-day military experts on edge.

Although unquestionably in the pantheon of U.S. military heroes, MacArthur and Patton were also controversial figures remembered by historians as flamboyant self-promoters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-generals-idUSKCN0VY2XJ

As Alexis DeToqueville noted, in the USA democracy the strongest pacifists are generals. The greatest warrior commanders are indeed also the strongest pacifists. They have self-discipline as well as the killer instinct.

[Publicus]

No one should think the United States is weak or lacks will or determination. To do so would be a huge error of cosmic proportions. Kim Jong Un et all take notice, chiefly CCP Dictators in Beijing, the Czarist-Chekist Putin and Gang in Moscow, the ayatollahs of the death cult in Tehran.

U.S. test-fires ICBMs to stress its power to Russia, North Korea

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif

The U.S. military test-fired its second intercontinental ballistic missile in a week on Thursday night, seeking to demonstrate its nuclear arms capacity at a time of rising strategic tensions with Russia and North Korea.

The unarmed Minuteman III missile roared out of a silo at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California late at night, raced across the sky at speeds of up to 15,000 mph (24,000 kph) and landed a half hour later in a target area 4,200 miles (6,500 km) away near Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands of the South Pacific.

"We and the Russians and the Chinese routinely do test shots to prove that the operational missiles that we have are reliable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-nuclear-idUSKCN0VZ02R

[arjunadawn]

Don't worry. We have Obama to take care of these things.

Indeed, and in fairness to Obama, it is not a sure thing that policies other than "strategic patience" would have worked any better with North Korea joining the international community. In essence, the result of all US policy with regard to N Korea has been strategic patience as the result, though never the declared policy.

(Our policies have always been bark with no bite and inexorably North Korea expanded into the US permission over time).

What we can say about Obama's "strategic patience" is that it has immediately resulted in the proliferation of ballistic missile and likely nuclear technology with regard to Iran, an arms race in the Middle East, and inconstancy with regard to supporting our allies around the world.

Would North Korea use WMD? If there ever was a time where using them would have been best, that time is now, under the license of "strategic patience." History may well record Obama's policy toward North Korea as dangerous and permissive as the US policy toward Iraq leading up to the invasion of Kuwait.

[arjunadawn]

Don't worry. We have Obama to take care of these things.

Thrump would have just nuked the whole peninsula saying let god sort them out.

This is an issue that I too worry about. What does hot tempered rhetoric result in when you are talking about Rosie O'Donnell nonsense versus the rhetoric that isolates an angry, insecure dictator into a corner forcing his ego to perceive limited choices, or no choices?

This actually is the kind of topic that defines the points detractors of Trump offer. I believe fully that a guy like Trump really will exercise the vast genius of those who can problem solve and navigate troubled waters for America. My concern is the mouth. In a world of soundbites, spin, PR, teleprompters, and makeup before the lights, there still exists frightening, oppressed, insecure cults of personality with access to terrible weapons. In the end, small penises, fragile egos, tenuous command, and delusions of grandeur still consume many leaders. I only hope Trump can play chess and not just 3 card Monty.

[tonbridgebrit]

Obama and his devoted wingnuts (more than a few right here...) remain committed, much like an addiction to drugs, to the "weakness is a strength" doctrine. Sure has worked with the Chinese in the S China Sea, hasn't it? (Boy did I call that one right! SAM alrdy there; fighters on the way.) What to do? Duh. Deploy more troops, more aircraft, and most important (and obvious) - deploy additional BMD, land and ship based. Let the psycho rant - he's a child in a fat man's body.

The Obama administration and its theatre military commanders have done a much better job of North Korea and global peace in general than did GW Bush and his Dick Cheney; Rumsfeld too.

The right that favors Trump for the R party nomination and for Potus would not only take us back to the Bush-Dick administration, they'd take us to the administrations of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon who respectively started then prolonged the disastrous Vietnam war. Disastrous to the US and to Vietnam.

The four-star we're discussing, General Curtis Scaparrotti, who is Supreme Commander, US-ROK Combined Forces Command, is a graduate of USMA West Point, the US Army War College, the Armed Forces Command and General Staff College, and is a former commanding general of the elite 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq and he commanded all forces in the eastern half of Afghanistan. He knows war.

Trump doesn't know up from down never mind north from south.....

Trump's obsession with WW2 generals strikes sour note with historians

Presidential candidate Donald Trump admires the late Douglas MacArthur and George Patton, both World War Two generals. They were winners, unpredictable, and not especially nice guys, he says in campaign speeches. But Trump's pledge to imitate their styles sets modern-day military experts on edge.

Although unquestionably in the pantheon of U.S. military heroes, MacArthur and Patton were also controversial figures remembered by historians as flamboyant self-promoters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-generals-idUSKCN0VY2XJ

As Alexis DeToqueville noted, in the USA democracy the strongest pacifists are generals. The greatest warrior commanders are indeed also the strongest pacifists. They have self-discipline as well as the killer instinct.

Publicus, oh, so the American soldier in charge of the US military in South Korea is a man who knows about war ? Great. He fought in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

He was victorious in those battles ? Great.

Now then, what about fighting against North Korea ? See, those victories against Afghanistan and Saddam of Iraq, they were against people who did NOT have Weapons of Mass Destruction, they did not have any nukes.

Now, Kim of North Korea, well, he HAS GOT nukes, he has got WMD. The OP is trying to say, that Kim IS willing to use the WMD that he has actually got. Basically, I'm trying to say, if you take on somebody who has not got nukes (Saddam and them Afghan men), fine, you will win. We know that. But you fight somebody who has got nukes, well, it's a different ball game.

The Americans can have 50,000 or 500,000 soldiers in South Korea, they can have the best generals in the world, but it's going to make little difference when bearing in mind that Kim's got nukes. Even if we bring back people like : Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonoparte, Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Eisenhower, Erwin Rommel, well, even THOSE 'greatest generals of all-time' are not going to be able to lead an army to remove Kim without disastrous results.

You've heard of "God made all men, the Colt 45 made all men equal" ?? Off-course you have, we all have.

Well, "countries are there, nukes and WMD have made ALL THOSE countries equal".

Yes, if nukes didn't exist, North Korea would be a nothing place, it wouldn't be a problem. But nukes do exist, and that's why invading and fighting Kim will simply NOT happen.

[tonbridgebrit]

No one should think the United States is weak or lacks will or determination. To do so would be a huge error of cosmic proportions. Kim Jong Un et all take notice, chiefly CCP Dictators in Beijing, the Czarist-Chekist Putin and Gang in Moscow, the ayatollahs of the death cult in Tehran.

U.S. test-fires ICBMs to stress its power to Russia, North Korea

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif

The U.S. military test-fired its second intercontinental ballistic missile in a week on Thursday night, seeking to demonstrate its nuclear arms capacity at a time of rising strategic tensions with Russia and North Korea.

The unarmed Minuteman III missile roared out of a silo at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California late at night, raced across the sky at speeds of up to 15,000 mph (24,000 kph) and landed a half hour later in a target area 4,200 miles (6,500 km) away near Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands of the South Pacific.

"We and the Russians and the Chinese routinely do test shots to prove that the operational missiles that we have are reliable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-nuclear-idUSKCN0VZ02R

Publicus, the OP is actually about North Korea's WMD, you've decided to talk about Washington's WMD.

You wrote "No one should think the United States is weak or lacks will or determination. To do so would be a huge error of cosmic proportions." Yes, we all know, Washington DOES HAVE a lot of weapons of mass destrucion, and yes, Washington is willing and determind in it's goals and objectives, bearing in mind that Washington has got enough nukes to blow up planet earth two or three times over.

"Kim Jong Un et all take notice, chiefly CCP Dictators in Beijing, the Czarist-Chekist Putin and Gang in Moscow, the ayatollahs of the death cult in Tehran."

I do find such belicose talk to be disturbing, bearing in mind that you are against the right-wing Republican Party of America. Moscow has also got enough nukes to blow up planet earth two or three times over. Why make a threatening comment at Moscow ? I don't know how many nukes has Beijing got, but they do have more nukes than Kim of North Korea. Why make a threatening comment at Beijing ? Beijing just wants to carry on producing goods that stock up the shelves of Walmart. As for Iran, have we been worried about Iran invading America and Europe since the ayatollahs coming back to replace the puppet Shah ?

As for threatening talk aimed at North Korea, well, Washington might have one hundred times more WMD than Kim, but any such talk is silly. My neighbour might have one thousand bullets, but I've still got my one or two bullets. Them one or two bullets that I've got, he's not going to step on my land.

[geriatrickid]

Don't worry. We have Obama to take care of these things.

Why should Obama have to take care of it? Let the South Koreans, Japanese and Chinese deal with it. China would be more helpful if it was faced with millions of starving zombie like refugees on its border.

[ableguy]

 

The General says this so it must be true. Sounds like same things we get from Thai government when they give opinions of what world leaders think of whats going on in Thailand. No proof just he says so believe it.I would suggest war monger.

You're thinking of the tank commander General George Patton who in World War II kicked German ass across Europe and got relieved of his command of the 3rd Army because he wanted to continue into Soviet Russia till the last CCCP was toast. That guy.

Or maybe you're thinking of MacArthur who got fired because he wanted to nuke China back in 1953.

That was then, this is now and you haven't any idea of the education, training, world view US military commanders get well before their first star. Just as in the high profile instances of Generals Patton and MacArthur, a four-star and a five-star, US generals and admirals get shipped out to the old soldiers home if they are sure we haven't fought long enough or hard enough, or that we haven't fought enough enemies, or that we're going to get wiped out if we don't attack right now. That was the flawed and contrary mindset of Bush-Cheney-McCain.

This guy is a four-star general in command of the US Eighth Army in S Korea, the US Seventh Air Force and its commanding general, and of all the South Korean armed forces and its commanders. It's been so of the US-UN Korea Command since the Korean Conflict began in 1950. The command is one of awesome power to include strategic and tactical nuclear weapons, so it comes with a great responsibility and the highest military level of trust/confidence.

The US supreme commander in S Korea opposite the Kim Regime is always a battle accomplished nail spitting and severe kicker of ass but he is also one who is a responsible well disciplined commander in a highly sensitive place and position, role, and he is well aware of it.

The US general has intelligence people here do not have. Or appreciate.

A well written and true piece of knowledge, well said.

[Publicus]

No surprise to bridgefall he's not keeping up at all never mind keeping up even minimally.

The poster fallingbridge fails the salient point of recognising something beyond Kim having a nuclear weapon or three or five. Kim having his tiny nuclear weapons store neutralises the CCP nuclear weapons arsenal which, at 250 warheads, itself remains small but potentially of a great strategic impact in respect of its targeting.

Worse, CCP Dictators in Beijing have lost control of Pyongyang. Beijing hasn't had significant influence in Pyongyang since before the end of daddy Kim's rule. Beijing has had virtually no influence in Pyongyang since Fat Boy took over. Recall Fat Boy sent his uncle to the dogs. That was it for Beijing as Fat's uncle had been Beijing's Number One guy in the Kim inner circle.

Beijing sent a Politburo hi-so to Pyongyang before the recent test but, as Beijing had feared, to no effect. Xi Jinping has not visited Pyongyang because he's not been invited by Fats. Fats hasn't invited Xi or anyone else from CCP in Beijing because they're unwelcome. Neither has Xi invited the bouncing boy to visit Xi in his high-walled CCP governing compound ZhongNanHai a couple of blocks from Tienenman Square. Yet Xi visited Seoul and ROK Pres Park has visited Beijing.

Kim Jong Fat has however welcomed Vladimir Putin to Pyongyang who visited last year and promised support against Beijing and Washington. Yes, Putin's support of Pyongyang against Beijing.

Count the times since year 2000 Washington has called on CCP in Beijing to reign in and to control Kim & Co without results. This is not because of a CCP obstinance, or CCP dithering to support a friend. It is because despite the CCP's propping up of the Kim Regime as its only means of support, CCP has lost any and all leverage in or over Pyongyang.

Kim has turned to Putin because he knows Putin is an arse kicker who has a nuclear arsenal equal to that of the US. Xi isn't going to grow CCP nuclear capabilities nor is Xi going to kick any arse.

CCP had in fact been central to the now embalmed Six-Party Talks which until their utter failure several years ago had been designed by Washington to steer Pyongyang toward a more reasonable course (Pyongyang, Beijing, Washington, Seoul, Tokyo, Moscow). While the P5+1 talks with Iran were eminently fruitful, no mode of talks with Pyongyang goes anywhere ever at all for any reason no matter what.

ROK Pres Park has begun talking about collapse in North Korea which is a radical departure from Seou's historically not speaking publicly of the matter. Seoul had always restricted its statements to reunification and of how all Koreans are Korean blah blah without any serious effort toward an astronomically expensive reunification. Now the focus in Seoul has shifted radically.

Almost everyone is now looking at what to do to accelerate the collapse and what to do when the collapse comes. What to do in terms that are economic, political, and not least of all, militarily.

[tonbridgebrit]

No surprise to bridgefall he's not keeping up at all never mind keeping up even minimally.

The poster fallingbridge fails the salient point of recognising something beyond Kim having a nuclear weapon or three or five. Kim having his tiny nuclear weapons store neutralises the CCP nuclear weapons arsenal which, at 250 warheads, itself remains small but potentially of a great strategic impact in respect of its targeting.

Worse, CCP Dictators in Beijing have lost control of Pyongyang. Beijing hasn't had significant influence in Pyongyang since before the end of daddy Kim's rule. Beijing has had virtually no influence in Pyongyang since Fat Boy took over. Recall Fat Boy sent his uncle to the dogs. That was it for Beijing as Fat's uncle had been Beijing's Number One guy in the Kim inner circle.

Beijing sent a Politburo hi-so to Pyongyang before the recent test but, as Beijing had feared, to no effect. Xi Jinping has not visited Pyongyang because he's not been invited by Fats. Fats hasn't invited Xi or anyone else from CCP in Beijing because they're unwelcome. Neither has Xi invited the bouncing boy to visit Xi in his high-walled CCP governing compound ZhongNanHai a couple of blocks from Tienenman Square. Yet Xi visited Seoul and ROK Pres Park has visited Beijing.

Publicus, what are you actually trying to say ??

You wrote "Kim having his tiny nuclear weapons store neutralises the CCP nuclear weapons arsenal".

YOU reckon that Kim's nukes neutralise the CCP nuclear arsenal ??? What ??? Publicus, Kim's nukes are aimed at SOUTH KOREA, not Beijing, you know that, right ? Kim's nukes have neutralised AMERICA'S military presence in South Korea. Why ? Why do I say that ? Because, if there is a war, the OP says that Kim will use his WMD. Yes, Kim will use his nukes. Now, I'm trying to say, once war breaks out, the Americans can attack North Korea with 50,000 or 500,000 soldiers, yes. Washington can do that. But Kim will fire a nuke or two, the OP says that the US general reckons that Kim will do it, and once Kim fires a nuke or two nukes onto South Korea, well, fifty thousand or five hundred thousand soldiers, it makes no difference, the important thing being that Souh Korea ges nuked.

Now, South Korea, they don't want to be nuked.

You have this obsession about Beijing losing control over Kim and North Korea ? Well, seeing as Kim's nukes are not aimed at Beijing, well, does that concern Beijing in a massive way ? I think South Korea are most scared regarding how Kim is now his own man.

You wrote "Count the times since year 2000 Washington has called on CCP in Beijing to reign in and to control Kim & Co without results."

Publicus, you're talking as if Beijing is there to obey Washington's orders ?? Washington has called on Beijing to reign in and control Kim ?

Look, North Korea is far more a problem for the USA and SOUTH KOREA rather than for Beijing. Again, I say, Kim's nukes are aimed at South Korea, not China.

We all know that Beijing and Washington are deadly rivals in a game of world power. Moscow is very much in this game, Washington is scared of Moscow and Beijing uniting to fight together. We know that Washington regards Beijing and Moscow as deadly rivals/enemies, you yourself made your comment about grouping Moscow, Beijing, Tehran and North Korea together.

Okay, after all this talk, what is the solution to the problem ?

Remember, the American general (you've already praised this man) has said in the OP that Kim will use his WMD (nukes) to save his regime. I say again, America invading North Korea will be a massive mistake. If or when Korea re-unites, it will cost a lot of money, South Korea has to pay. The issue of some South Koreans secretly dreading the cost of re-unification is known in America and else-where.

So, invading Kim is not on, and re-unification with North Korea is going to be very expensive. It would be much cheaper for Washington and South Korea to give Kim a million tons of rice, and one hundred million barrels of oil. Hopefully, Kim will scrap his nukes. Whether he scraps his nukes or not, well, Kim being in charge of North Korea and receiving rice and oil is a lot safer AND cheaper than the following options : invasion or no invasion followed by re-unification.

Do you see what I mean ???

[Publicus]

I see a lot in your rantings posts. It's all water under the bridge however.

[tonbridgebrit]

Don't worry. We have Obama to take care of these things.

Why should Obama have to take care of it? Let the South Koreans, Japanese and Chinese deal with it. China would be more helpful if it was faced with millions of starving zombie like refugees on its border.

"Why should Obama have to take care of it? Let the South Koreans, Japanese and Chinese deal with it. China would be more helpful if it was faced with millions of starving zombie like refugees on its border."

Hello geriatrickid.

And indeed, I feel the same way as you. Yes, this thing about Kim having nukes, it's an Asian problem, a Far East problem, and it needs a Far East solution to the problem. America is there, America is trying to solve the problem, but I think that the presence of the American soldiers in South Korea is making the situation more dangerous.

Indeed, the American soldiers in South Korea, they have become part of the problem, instead of being the soluton to the problem.

Kim is building his nukes, because he is scared that the South Koreans and the Americans might attack and invade him. Kim knows that only nukes can save him, he knows that the ability to nuke South Korea gaurantees that South Korea and Washington won't attack him. With nukes, Kim knows he is 'safe', the Americans won't attack him. Fifty thousand or five hundred thousand soldiers attacking North Korea is meaningless when Kim has nukes.

Also, Kim is not a danger or a threat to America or Europe. Kim's nukes cannot reach the USA. So, Washington being heavily involved in this Korean issue, well, the way forward is for Washington to try and not get involved.

[Credo]

If the US leaves the area, there is a very, very big chance that North Korea will invade South Korea and it will be a blood bath.

If you think that China's little man-made island is causing problems, just imagine when they have an ally fully in control of the waterways.

And just imagine the number of people who will be fleeing the regime. I suspect that much of SE Asia all the way to Australia will awash with boat people.

Anytime that South Korea wants out of the military alliance with the US, they can opt out. Especially with the current US President, who doesn't particularly like to flex his muscles. It is the existence of South Korea that is in jeopardy, not the North Korean regime.