Tell me - Why should Thailand make it safer for Tourists?

[NoshowJones]

The "truth" is many tourists invite their own trouble. Like the damaged tourist I spoke to last evening.

Covered in grazes and bandages this idiot admitted to attempting to ride a 125cc "scooter" having never ridden a motorbike before.

I have zero sympathy with these people and told my new "friend" he was lucky to be alive.

What do you suppose he should have practiced with, a bicycle?

What about the Swedish boy electrocuted on the beach on Samui yesterday? Was it his fault too?

"Covered in grazes and bandages this idiot admitted to attempting to ride a 125cc "scooter" having never ridden a motorbike before".

You are not trying to say this idiot is in the right are you? Even having never ridden a motorbike before, it is stupid to even practice riding off road.and

then after learning how to make it go and stop it, to take it out on busy roads. How stupid can some people get?

[elgordo38]

Not too sure how old you are OP but just because TAT says numbers are up it does not actually mean it's true.

If numbers were as much as you seem to believe , TAT would not need to waste millions if not billions on new campaigns.

Tourism is like water flowing from a tap. Once the banks turn the credit tap off it will dry up. We live in a fly now pay later society. Nothing like a global shock wave to put the kibash to tourism. Once things start to tighten up again like 2008 travelling is the first thing that gets shelved. Then there is services tourists need water and plenty of it. We are experiencing a worsening drought. All that poo has to go somewhere and Thailand is not notorious for spending money on sanitation. Electric lines are already overloaded and all this new "development" is not helping things. Infrastructure is stretched to the limit and I see no signs of expansion i.e. wider roads. The government begrudgingly parts with money here unless for subs, tanks, guns or extra troops their main priorities. They have taken tourism for granted spending minimally at best. Lastly TAT numbers well it is the Pinocchio question of the year. Like most government statements like "We are not going to buy subs" and then do a right turn and do it I distrust everything they say there just is no consistency in their words and less to their actions.

[Ulic]

Why should they make it safer for tourists. Well,.... I am an atheist and try to treat Thais and

others fairly and with respect. I don't cheat or steal, I have returned money I have found in bank

machines and wallets, etc....etc....Not because of some after life reward, but because it is the

right thing to do. Weather helping lost tourists or picking up a stranded motorist. A dead tourist

cannot return, but that is besides the point. Keeping tourists safe is the right thing to do.

End of story. You don't need a reason to do the right thing.

[gandalf12]

I would agree they dont care about tourists but the only exist for the money. Word does go around and despite the made up figures that the TAT put out they know that less people are coming to Thailand than there would be if the security of tourists was considered to be good and due to what appears to be the high death rate plus the lack of concern shown by the country towards these deaths.

[Selati]

With 25 mil visitors and say 0.1% deaths in Pattaya,which are self inflicted anyway. Not reaching 25,000 deaths in Pattaya per year anyway. We need to look at the numbers and percentages per visitors and not merely, say Pattaya is a dangerous place.

[gandalf12]

With 25 mil visitors and say 0.1% deaths in Pattaya,which are self inflicted anyway. Not reaching 25,000 deaths in Pattaya per year anyway. We need to look at the numbers and percentages per visitors and not merely, say Pattaya is a dangerous place.

People wo have never been to Thailand before dont make these kind of comparisons they just see what they consider a lot and then decide they dont want to come.

[mihalis]

Every tourist destination of the world should make it safe for people to visit.. Brazil, mate of mine was hijacked at a ATM.. He's lucky to be alive police told him....

[mihalis]

Every tourist destination of the world should make it safe for people to visit.. Brazil, mate of mine was hijacked at a ATM.. He's lucky to be alive police told him....

[sanukjim]

Once again the editors have shown that they can come up with the MOST STUPID QUESTIONS.

[Top man]

I really hate to say this and thinking about the past stories of what has happened to falangs in Thailand has all been though the influence of drink. Sad but true.

[user82374298374]

What about the Swedish boy electrocuted on the beach on Samui yesterday? Was it his fault too?

It was his parents' fault. Anyone who brings a minor child to a dangerous, unpredictable Third World country like Thailand is a bad parent, period.

[Brer Fox]

Not too sure how old you are OP but just because TAT says numbers are up it does not actually mean it's true.

If numbers were as much as you seem to believe , TAT would not need to waste millions if not billions on new campaigns.

Point taken Al.

After all, Mark Twain said there are "lies, damn lies and statistics.."

But I believe that tourist numbers are going up, so I may be deluded there, much like the Jews and their friends the Palestinians..

NOTE: Reports say that 8 million Chinese visited Thailand in 2015 - and T.A.T. indicates it's looking for 10 million Chinese in 2016 (I saw about 5 million of them in Phuket alone..)

You saw 5 million of them in Phuket!

What about the other half million at Suvarnabhumi checking in to get to Phuket. All of them either asleep taking up three sitting chairs or pushing and shoving and gathered in their tour groups blocking every thoroughfare to get anywhere with their baggage trolleys as high as a mountain.

Chinese tourists should not be counted in the statistics. If they are counted then every ten Chinese equals one real money spending tourist.

[TheKnave]

This topic reeks of douchebaggery.

[canathai8]

This topic reeks of douchebaggery.

And let's examine the contents of the douchebaggery - shall we?

No one knows precisely how many tourists die of unnatural causes in Thailand, but the grim totals are certainly worse than the given statistics! Of public tourist death lists that formulate given statistics (an incomplete list to be absolutely certain), many tourists die of unknown causes.

And here's the kicker - Thai Authorities stopped revealing annual numbers of tourist deaths in April 2012 - because revealing the actual numbers could put Thai tourism at risk, in their humble opinion.

That bag stinks.

[canathai8]

The abysmally cynical syndrome of which the OP speaks is actually his own.

Thailand is a developing nation, public safety is an area in which Thailand is developing and the beneficiaries of improvements in safety are both tourists and Thai people alike.

There is a great deal of research into how and why public opinion changes and how public policy adapts to public opinion. High on the list are intergovernment discourse, inter government agency exchanges and perhaps most significant of all, informal social discourse and person to person exchanges of ideas.

Ten or twenty years ago the idea of Thailand bringing in seat belt laws, drink driving laws, or enforcing these laws was beyond imagination. Expats then predicted,trained abulance crews will never happen, fire inspections will never happen, trauma teams in public hospitals, never happen - the list goes on - and the improvements are happening.

Yes there is a lot more to do, but there is nothing unique about Thai people that says they don't want their loved ones killed or injured nor that they are indifferent to others being killed or injured.

Thailand is improving public safety and everyone who asks for improvements or points oit and discusses problems is helping build the necessary change in public opinion and policy.

I don't fabricate statistics (that are artificially low by the way) GuestHouse, nor do I fear monger. I do my research, along with spending 10 years in the Kingdom.

Bye the way, two more of my Thai relatives recently died on motorbikes. No helmet of course, but they consider it meddling if I suggest wearing a safety helmet is prudent.

Up to them

BTW: I have driven a plain jane Hilux pickup all over Thailand, and acknowledge that the roads here are slowly improving..so I agree that things could eventually, potentially get better in terms of tourist road deaths..

[sunnyjim5]

It can be very boring to listen to those Thai apologists that like the " Last Samurai" Tom Cruise have dicarded their own culture as evil and become more Thai than Thai.

Thailand is beautiful and dangerous like an undrugged Tiger.

9 times out of 10 tourists are perfectly safe but 1 time in 10, very real danger comes out of a very insignificant incident.

A Thai person in the UK can own property and go about their business without censure but if they are troubled by violence the Police/government don't tend to hush it up or blame other immigrants.

Pattaya is 'death city', lots of druggings and balcony divings under suspicious circumstances.

Lots of swimming and diving accidents with speedboats because everything is unregulated here.

We expats probably love the freedoms afforded us here but tourists have no idea of the appalling trouble they can get into at the hands of vendors, taxi drivers, boat handlers etc . .

Just a few days ago I listened as the Asiatique boat "handler"? shouted and pushed tourists onto an already crowded boat, 'come on bufalloes, come on you <deleted> <deleted> . . . . the Thai people most of whom are decent were and are appalled at this kind of dangerous service.

My girlfriend told him to behave himself and give a good service and he held the boat up for 5 minutes arguing with her. He lost.

If he "lost" how many tourists were removed from the "crowded" boat ?

[sunnyjim5]

The "truth" is many tourists invite their own trouble. Like the damaged tourist I spoke to last evening.

Covered in grazes and bandages this idiot admitted to attempting to ride a 125cc "scooter" having never ridden a motorbike before.

I have zero sympathy with these people and told my new "friend" he was lucky to be alive.

What do you suppose he should have practiced with, a bicycle?

What about the Swedish boy electrocuted on the beach on Samui yesterday? Was it his fault too?

If the Samui incident is true and I have not seen any evidence that it is then clearly the child is not to be faulted .

Idiots who have never ridden a motor bike should practice killing themselves at home !

[canathai8]

Thais lack empathy that normal human beings possess. You can see it in the pictures of dead foreigners where, and I kid you nof, half the time there is some smirking Thai looking at the corpse. If you get hurt in Thailand, no one will care, least of all the police. If a Thai hurts you, they won't care. If you hurt a Thai, you'll get mob beaten and the police will take great pleasure in making you suffer.

We are dealing with people with an average IQ of 80. And that drops precipitously outside of Bangkok.

Most Thais view death almost 180 degrees differently than westerners..

"It was their time" is the usual refrain after a fatal accident

Makes it easier to handle..

Analogy: Consider WW2, where the Japanese in general fought to die, and the Allies fought to live. (see Admiral Bull Halsey, and his comments on the matter)

It's a 180 degree difference in attitude, plain and simple..

[Roomuck]

Why should the Thais care if a tourist dies here?

I can't remember caring about tourists getting killed in Australia when I lived there. It just wasn't something I or anyone I knew gave a stuff about.

I don't even care if a tourist dies here.

It amazes me that we are back on the no tourists here again. Don't believe TAT, but at least Google and you will find the only people saying tourists numbers are down are a few posters here.

You can find out where the tourists are from, breakdowns and all. Asian countries make up the top three, so maybe some posters don't notice them, and assume they are Thais.

See quarterly data from 2009 till end of 2015 at bottom of this page.

2013 saw the highest number of arrivals yet at 26.55 million arrivals.

During 2014 arrivals decreased to 24.81 million (-6.54%).

(Arrivals decreased by 10,28 % in the first three quarters of 2014. The end of 2014, saw an increase in arrivals, compared with the previous year)

2015 saw a massive increase in the number of visiting tourists. 5 million more visitors arrived, bringing their total up to 29,881,091 . There was some loss of momentum during the months of September and the fourth quarter of the year with only minor increases in visitor numbers in these months. Likely this was related to a bombing of the Erawan Shrine in central Bangkok on 17 August 2015, which caused 20 casualties, and was reported worldwide.

To a great extent the increase in visitors in 2015 was due to the significant increase in Chinese tourists. 7,934,791 Chinese tourists arrived (26,55 % of the total !), and increase of more than 3 million when compared with 2014. Then again, the number of Russian visitors dropped from 1,606,430 to 884,085 or almost by half.

Boom Years for Thai Tourism Industry

International arrivals to Thailand from 2000 to 2015 show a significant rise from 2000 onwards. If we take the year 2000 as an easy benchmark with 10 million visitors at the time, we reached 26.55 million visitors in 2013, an increase of 165 %. Arrivals decreased by 6.54% during 2014, in a year that saw massive political demonstrations, followed by the military taking over the government. A recovery occurred in the final quarter of that year, and 2015 saw a boom in arrivals, almost up to 30 million.

Temporary dips in arrivals occurred

SARS 2003

Post-Tsunami 2004

Global recession and riots in Thailand 2009

Riots and political uncertainty in 2010, major flooding of a large part of Thailand and northern Bangkok end 2011, and political demonstrations end 2013 and ongoing into 2014. Anti-goverment demonstrations occupied most of the first half of 2014, and were followed by declaration of martial law, and a military (bloodless) Coup d'Etat on 22 May 2014. Military government since then. Bombing of the Erawan Shrine on 17 August 2015 likely had some negative effect on the number of arrivals.

It is yet to be seen if the recent passport check on a 100 or so people will be the final nail in the coffin!

Last year was a record year, this one is shaping up as another one. Don't believe me, don't believe TAT, just google it. Certainly don't believe posters here that have no real figures only what they reckon.

Pattaya also has a weekend influx of Thais every weekend that the other resort towns miss out on because of the distance to Bangkok. You won't see them much from the bar stools in soi 6,7,8 either. They are for the farang.

Do the Thais really care where the tourists are from? Why would they? Seems to me they are keeping up with the times as they always have. Smart people these Thais.

Record numbers of tourists leads to more tourist deaths. Simple.

[BudRight]

Idiots who have never ridden a motor bike should practice killing themselves at home !

Why would "at home" be a better place to practice unless the roads really were safer compared to the dangerous Thai roads - meaning his injuries were not his fault.

And no-one "practices killing themselves." You should wait for your lobotomy to heal before you post again.

[bbbbooboo]

Einstein once said there are 2 things that are infinite,the universe and human stupidity. And it's still to be proven about the universe

[canathai8]

A few rambling thoughts on the subject:

To understand clearly why tourist deaths are considered more or less "my bpen rai" by Thais in general, one needs to understand the Thai mindset, in fact look at Thailand through the cultural, social lens of a Thai, intimately understand their cultural paradigms and for a farang, that's tantamount to Mission Impossible, Thai-Style. That I have lived up close and personal with Thai people for ten years, and have a Thai wife, does not make me really know what makes them tick..

But in general for a Thai, it's "where is my next dollar and meal coming from?" That makes perfect sense. Thailand has no large safety social net like the west; it's a more "dangerous" society in general, in a myriad of ways, than say Sweden, Canada or even the **U.S. - for about a hundred and one different reasons.

** A recent study indicates that Thailand has twice the murder rates of the U.S. by firearms, with Thailand ironically only having a tiny fraction of the guns of the U.S. Moreover, the majority of killings in Thailand are allegedly not carried out with firearms, but rather with sharp, or blunt instruments. Oy..

Thais view death much differently than westerners. Eight of my Thai relatives (by marriage) have died on Thai roadways, two in the last three months, in separate incidents on motorbikes, both not wearing a helmet. I suggested to the family after the most recent tragedy that they consider wearing a safety helmet. They may consider it, but they still ride without a helmet half the time.

So if Thais are so nonchalant about their own personal safety, and they view many premature deaths in their own family as individual road accidents, "it was their time," rather than seeing all these deaths in the family as a symptom of a bigger problem that confronts all of Thailand and Thai driving culture, then why would Thais worry or care about strangers - about excessive foreigner-tourist deaths in the country? And by extension, why would most Thai expats care either?

NOTE: Two of my Thai relatives work at Vachira Public hospital in Phuket, and they tell me frequently how many farang come there in pieces - or dead**. There are figures, and they are large, but they stopped being published in April, 2012. Imagine that. **They usually get cremated at a local Temple, and a number are never even reported..

[chiang mai]

Well at least part of your post is correct: Thailand does have a high death rate from RTA's and gun ownership per capita here is higher than in most countries, the murder rate is also very high.

But the number of foreign deaths is very low, as a percentage of visitors, most foreigners who die here do so as a result of RTA's, old age (there's over 3.5 million foreigners living here) and drowning is third, despite whatever any Thai relatives may have told you, the evidence is simply not there to suggest foreigners are being murdered in anything but very small numbers.

[canathai8]

Well at least part of your post is correct: Thailand does have a high death rate from RTA's and gun ownership per capita here is higher than in most countries, the murder rate is also very high.

But the number of foreign deaths is very low, as a percentage of visitors, most foreigners who die here do so as a result of RTA's, old age (there's over 3.5 million foreigners living here) and drowning is third, despite whatever any Thai relatives may have told you, the evidence is simply not there to suggest foreigners are being murdered in anything but very small numbers.

Let's see - Ways farang die of unnatural causes in Thailand - in numbers far exceeding their places of birth.

You got your bus, ferry, speedboat, motorbike and car accidents, electrocutions, knifings, unexplained deaths, numerous suicides, diving accidents, jumpers, drownings, robberies gone wrong, anonymous bodies washing up on the shores and a string of alcohol and drug-related incidents. And that's just the tip of the iceberg..

"Don't believe me just watch, Don't believe me just watch.."

[chiang mai]

Plug the following URL into your browser and read the second article, sorry I can't post it directly because it's against forum rules:

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=causeof+foriegn+deatghs+in+thailand&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=4uPQVoCoO8iJuATR97tI#q=tourist+deaths+in+thailand+statistics

Anyone who wants to understand the true extent and cause of foreign deaths in Thailand need only do a little research on the internet, the stats are all out there, there's just no need to listen to inane ramblings of Thai bashers and conspiracy theorists on this subject.

[chiang mai]

It's not good to generalize I know but I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that most younger people today haven't got the intellectual bandwidth to understand the data that's being thrown at that on this subject by newspapers. In the West they're raised on the stories put out by the Sun and the Daily Mail yet they fail to comprehend the link between sensationalism and profit in the media and instead make a different connection, one between sensationalism and fact. I think that's why we have so many conspiracy theories these days, from the moon landing being filmed on a movie set, to 9/11 being orchestrated by the government all the way down to the most likely cause of foreign deaths in Thailand, folks are simply not able to assimilate the information their provided any longer and that's truly scary.

[BuriramDevelopers]

yes the tourist no's are up and so is the economy. That is if you believe the general and the provided no's. Outside you see a different picture. People are hurting who run bussines in the sector. ( not all no , but sure A LOT )

the baht is still going strong throughout the world wide crisis. (aside from a few fluctuations)

How else can it be. Thailand must be going better than ever.

The government says so........

and to the other.........question... in regard to safety........WHY NOT.

Edited February 27, 2016 by BuriramDevelopers

[lvr181]

"Why should Thailand make it safer for Tourists?"

Because failure to do so will only increase the increasingly bad reputation the country and its rulers have, for tourists.

I have just spoken to some friends recently who have returned from Phuket/Patong who stated that while they enjoyed some part of their trip (e.g. visiting islands in the Andaman Sea) they will not return. They felt they were being "ripped off" many times and felt vulnerable in a physical sense. NOW they will tell everyone of their "less than enjoyable" experiences and therefore there will be other tourists who will not bother coming! Bad news travels faster than good news - a fact of life! TAT could get its head out of the sand and start lobbying Government for more real safety protection for tourism.

Many ordinary Thai peoples are so nice BUT authority figures and criminals are rife and seem to enjoy shaking down tourists for a dollar or two. Is this practicing Buddhist beliefs? I think not.

[Roomuck]

If you heard about a traveler 's death and you felt nothing, then you are a sociopath. Go get help. Let me ask you how you felt about the British backpacker couple on Ko Ta'o? And the Burmese scapegoats? Did you feel nothing for them or their families?

Why should the Thais care if a tourist dies here?

I can't remember caring about tourists getting killed in Australia when I lived there. It just wasn't something I or anyone I knew gave a stuff about.

I don't even care if a tourist dies here.

It amazes me that we are back on the no tourists here again. Don't believe TAT, but at least Google and you will find the only people saying tourists numbers are down are a few posters here.

You can find out where the tourists are from, breakdowns and all. Asian countries make up the top three, so maybe some posters don't notice them, and assume they are Thais.

See quarterly data from 2009 till end of 2015 at bottom of this page.

2013 saw the highest number of arrivals yet at 26.55 million arrivals.

During 2014 arrivals decreased to 24.81 million (-6.54%).

(Arrivals decreased by 10,28 % in the first three quarters of 2014. The end of 2014, saw an increase in arrivals, compared with the previous year)

2015 saw a massive increase in the number of visiting tourists. 5 million more visitors arrived, bringing their total up to 29,881,091 . There was some loss of momentum during the months of September and the fourth quarter of the year with only minor increases in visitor numbers in these months. Likely this was related to a bombing of the Erawan Shrine in central Bangkok on 17 August 2015, which caused 20 casualties, and was reported worldwide.

To a great extent the increase in visitors in 2015 was due to the significant increase in Chinese tourists. 7,934,791 Chinese tourists arrived (26,55 % of the total !), and increase of more than 3 million when compared with 2014. Then again, the number of Russian visitors dropped from 1,606,430 to 884,085 or almost by half.

Boom Years for Thai Tourism Industry

International arrivals to Thailand from 2000 to 2015 show a significant rise from 2000 onwards. If we take the year 2000 as an easy benchmark with 10 million visitors at the time, we reached 26.55 million visitors in 2013, an increase of 165 %. Arrivals decreased by 6.54% during 2014, in a year that saw massive political demonstrations, followed by the military taking over the government. A recovery occurred in the final quarter of that year, and 2015 saw a boom in arrivals, almost up to 30 million.

Temporary dips in arrivals occurred

SARS 2003

Post-Tsunami 2004

Global recession and riots in Thailand 2009

Riots and political uncertainty in 2010, major flooding of a large part of Thailand and northern Bangkok end 2011, and political demonstrations end 2013 and ongoing into 2014. Anti-goverment demonstrations occupied most of the first half of 2014, and were followed by declaration of martial law, and a military (bloodless) Coup d'Etat on 22 May 2014. Military government since then. Bombing of the Erawan Shrine on 17 August 2015 likely had some negative effect on the number of arrivals.

It is yet to be seen if the recent passport check on a 100 or so people will be the final nail in the coffin!

Last year was a record year, this one is shaping up as another one. Don't believe me, don't believe TAT, just google it. Certainly don't believe posters here that have no real figures only what they reckon.

Pattaya also has a weekend influx of Thais every weekend that the other resort towns miss out on because of the distance to Bangkok. You won't see them much from the bar stools in soi 6,7,8 either. They are for the farang.

Do the Thais really care where the tourists are from? Why would they? Seems to me they are keeping up with the times as they always have. Smart people these Thais.

Record numbers of tourists leads to more tourist deaths. Simple.

People die and get killed everyday. Am I supposed to care about them all? Do you care about tourists deaths in your country?

So to answer your question, I don't think it is a good thing, but I really couldn't care less. I didn't know them.

As for the Burmese scapegoats, the Thais I have spoken to are not too worried about them either. The Thais dislike for the Burmese goes back a long way, the Burmese burnt down the former capital, mass murdered and mass raped. Killed women and children. I am not saying it is right, but perhaps understandable to a certain extent. Anyway, it is not my business.

[huawei]

If they improved the safety for their own population then by default tourists would be safer....