Scottish warning for David Cameron over referendum on EU membership

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:30, said:

Chicog, on 01 Mar 2016 - 17:18, said:

Perhaps she's better off shutting her fat mouth until she sees if the Scottish people vote to stay in or leave. It's about what they want, not what she wants.

A survation poll last weekend showed only 17% of Scots support leaving the EU. I guess she feels the mood of the country is behind her.

I await with anticipation on a link to this Survation poll.

How about this?

I am still waiting for you to confirm that David Cameron is a Eurosceptic - any update on that? I could do with another chuckle.

[SgtRock]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:57, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:40, said:

I await with anticipation on a link to this Survation poll.

How about this?

I am still waiting for you to confirm that David Cameron is a Eurosceptic - any update on that? I could do with another chuckle.

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:57, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:40, said:

I await with anticipation on a link to this Survation poll.

How about this?

I am still waiting for you to confirm that David Cameron is a Eurosceptic - any update on that? I could do with another chuckle.

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

Nothing confused here, pal. I am referring to your weak attempt to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon was lying to the Scottish people about wanting to remain in the EU (the Bojo the Clown thread, should you need reminding).

You asserted that anyone who was not satisfied with the status quo must, by default, be Eurosceptic. Do you still believe that?

Even that article, around which you tied yourself in knots, (here) confirmed that only 17% of Scots want to leave.

[nontabury]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 19:30, said:

Chicog, on 01 Mar 2016 - 17:18, said:

Perhaps she's better off shutting her fat mouth until she sees if the Scottish people vote to stay in or leave. It's about what they want, not what she wants.

A survation poll last weekend showed only 17% of Scots support leaving the EU. I guess she feels the mood of the country is behind her.

I await with anticipation on a link to this Survation poll.

How about this?

I am still waiting for you to confirm that David Cameron is a Eurosceptic - any update on that? I could do with another chuckle.

I think I'll take this euroelect poll with a pinch of salt. Though I must admit it's quite refreshing that those they polled, have already decided which way to vote, seemingly no Undecided, that is in stark contrast to all the other polls I have seen.

In the 2014 European elections less then 30% voted SNP, yet now this poll is telling us that in the forthcoming Referendum the SNP line will be followed by 77% of the Scottish electorate. Including Jim Sellers ex leader of the SNP. If you believe these figures I suggest you get down to your local bookies and place a sizable wager.

In the meantime look at the latest findings from the Pro Eu Independent newspaper. Their poll find that 60% of the Scottish electorate do back the in campaign, however that figures is reducing by the month. So maybe by June that figure may be the same, but maybe not, especially if more information regarding the future direction of the EU becomes available.

[RuamRudy]

I await with anticipation on a link to this Survation poll.

How about this?

I am still waiting for you to confirm that David Cameron is a Eurosceptic - any update on that? I could do with another chuckle.

I think I'll take this euroelect poll with a pinch of salt. Though I must admit it's quite refreshing that those they polled, have already decided which way to vote, seemingly no Undecided, that is in stark contrast to all the other polls I have seen.

In the 2014 European elections less then 30% voted SNP, yet now this poll is telling us that in the forthcoming Referendum the SNP line will be followed by 77% of the Scottish electorate. Including Jim Sellers ex leader of the SNP. If you believe these figures I suggest you get down to your local bookies and place a sizable wager.

In the meantime look at the latest findings from the Pro Eu Independent newspaper. Their poll find that 60% of the Scottish electorate do back the in campaign, however that figures is reducing by the month. So maybe by June that figure may be the same, but maybe not, especially if more information regarding the future direction of the EU becomes available.

Jim Sillars is a bit of an odd character, but he seems to have a major gripe against the SNP for reasons unknown to me.

As for the 2014 EU elections, the SNP got the largest share of the vote any party and more than twice that of UKIP. But if you add all the votes for pro-EU parties in that election, they show just how much in favour we are of remaining in Europe.

[tomacht8]

I think many working, normal, in their countries for generations Natives, are pissed off by our high-handed EU politicians.
This feeling is not only by residents of the UK.
It is in all countries within the EU.
To retain its national identity has nothing bad.
The diversity and peculiarities of the countries is invigorating and suspenseful.

We do not need this massive migrations of strangers cultures who do not understand our local culture, do not want to understand, reject or even fight it.
At the airport in Birmingham you can see more burqas than miniskirts.
But do not blame the EU for that.
There are still your elected representatives sitting at the negotiating tables in Brussels.
I would regret it, if the UK left the EU.
Likewise, if the Uk disintegrates.

What is more important at this time is to deselect our incompetent wimp politicians.
An EU with politicians who truly represents the interests of the native population is needed..
Europe do not need the mass invasion from Islam people on europe soil, which bring their problems from there homelands of non-working societys into europe.

Edited March 1, 2016 by tomacht8

[loppylugs1]

Cameron offered Scotland a bag of additional benefits if it stayed in the UK. At that time UK was in the EU and Scotlan declared it favors EU membership.

Scots now have a real concern that if the UK leaves the EU, the UK will be unable to deliver on its promises of special benefits to Scotland. Cameron remains silent on that aspect. Essentially, UK will doublecross Scotland from refraining from independence if the UK leaves the EU. A Brexit will drive Scotland to independence. And that threat may cause Brits to vote to stay in the EU.

Had a nip or three too many I see "brexit vote will drive Scothland to Independence" Ive already voted OUT OUT OUT

[SgtRock]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:25, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:07, said:

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

Nothing confused here, pal. I am referring to your weak attempt to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon was lying to the Scottish people about wanting to remain in the EU (the Bojo the Clown thread, should you need reminding).

You asserted that anyone who was not satisfied with the status quo must, by default, be Eurosceptic. Do you still believe that?

Even that article, around which you tied yourself in knots, (here) confirmed that only 17% of Scots want to leave.

You are very confused, especially if you think I am your pal.

I never tied myself in knots anywhere.

I said that Sturgeon did not have the support that she was claiming on staying in the EU. That was based on reading comments left on various news stories. I stand by that statement.

You might just want to ask yourself why UKIP, of all people, are forecast to win 7 seats in the upcoming election.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-new-polls-show-further-increase-in-snp-support-and-ukip-breakthrough-1-4040315

Does it not seem strange to you, that a Party that, apparently only has 1 Policy, EU exit, is forecast to win 7 seats in Scotland ?

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:25, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:07, said:

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

Nothing confused here, pal. I am referring to your weak attempt to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon was lying to the Scottish people about wanting to remain in the EU (the Bojo the Clown thread, should you need reminding).

You asserted that anyone who was not satisfied with the status quo must, by default, be Eurosceptic. Do you still believe that?

Even that article, around which you tied yourself in knots, (here) confirmed that only 17% of Scots want to leave.

You are very confused, especially if you think I am your pal.

I never tied myself in knots anywhere.

I said that Sturgeon did not have the support that she was claiming on staying in the EU. That was based on reading comments left on various news stories. I stand by that statement.

You might just want to ask yourself why UKIP, of all people, are forecast to win 7 seats in the upcoming election.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-new-polls-show-further-increase-in-snp-support-and-ukip-breakthrough-1-4040315

Does it not seem strange to you, that a Party that, apparently only has 1 Policy, EU exit, is forecast to win 7 seats in Scotland ?

Apologies if I breached some protocol. Us Scots are a genial lot but I often forget that this is not a universal quality.

Do you base all your assertions on newspaper comments sections? Does it not occur to you that those motivated to add comment are not necessarily representative of the mainstream?

There you go again, selectively plucking from articles. I assume this is the paragraph to which you are referring:

"It also predicted UKIP will take seven seats at Holyrood after winning a six per cent share of the regional vote."

So no constituency MSPs, and a miserly 7 list MSPs - I guess for Ukip that is impressive, but I am afraid that, in the real world, they remain at the Screaming Lord Sutch end of fringe.

[nontabury]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:25, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:07, said:

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

Nothing confused here, pal. I am referring to your weak attempt to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon was lying to the Scottish people about wanting to remain in the EU (the Bojo the Clown thread, should you need reminding).

You asserted that anyone who was not satisfied with the status quo must, by default, be Eurosceptic. Do you still believe that?

Even that article, around which you tied yourself in knots, (here) confirmed that only 17% of Scots want to leave.

You are very confused, especially if you think I am your pal.

I never tied myself in knots anywhere.

I said that Sturgeon did not have the support that she was claiming on staying in the EU. That was based on reading comments left on various news stories. I stand by that statement.

You might just want to ask yourself why UKIP, of all people, are forecast to win 7 seats in the upcoming election.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-new-polls-show-further-increase-in-snp-support-and-ukip-breakthrough-1-4040315

Does it not seem strange to you, that a Party that, apparently only has 1 Policy, EU exit, is forecast to win 7 seats in Scotland ?

passed to me by friends in Scotland. This shows that not all Scotts are lemmings or if you prefer, Turkeys voting for Christmas. Edited March 4, 2016 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:25, said:

SgtRock, on 01 Mar 2016 - 20:07, said:

Not on Survation website, sorry not acceptable.

Confirm that Cameron is a Euroseptic ? I think you are confused. I can confirm that he is a lying <deleted> and got his swingers kicked by General Rose.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647925/when-campaigns-go-wrong-another-botched-letter

Nothing confused here, pal. I am referring to your weak attempt to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon was lying to the Scottish people about wanting to remain in the EU (the Bojo the Clown thread, should you need reminding).

You asserted that anyone who was not satisfied with the status quo must, by default, be Eurosceptic. Do you still believe that?

Even that article, around which you tied yourself in knots, (here) confirmed that only 17% of Scots want to leave.

You are very confused, especially if you think I am your pal.

I never tied myself in knots anywhere.

I said that Sturgeon did not have the support that she was claiming on staying in the EU. That was based on reading comments left on various news stories. I stand by that statement.

You might just want to ask yourself why UKIP, of all people, are forecast to win 7 seats in the upcoming election.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-new-polls-show-further-increase-in-snp-support-and-ukip-breakthrough-1-4040315

Does it not seem strange to you, that a Party that, apparently only has 1 Policy, EU exit, is forecast to win 7 seats in Scotland ?

passed to me by friends in Scotland. This shows that not all Scotts are lemmings or if you prefer, Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Scottish Population in 'Difference of Opinion' Shocker!

But, as the polls seem to indicate (and amply demonstrated by the risible performance of UKIP in Scotland), your friends are in the minority.

Edited March 4, 2016 by RuamRudy

[nontabury]

Is't it amazing that during the Separation referendum in 2014, the SNP kept going on about the value, to the Scottish economy of North Sea oil. This was when oil was at approx 120$, now it is at approx 30$, some of those blinkered nationalist are now saying oil revenue is not that important. Not only is the economy of Aberdeen in free fall, now we have reports from the likes of Strathclyde university confirming that yes the Scottish economy is further starting to slow down, and this is even before the full impact of reduced oil revenue takes effect. Presumable the likes of Salmons and Sturgeon will now blame the international oil crisis on England,while expecting the remainder of the U.K. to further financially support their none costed socialist policies.

Further more we have the SNP bizarrely supporting the in-campaign. What would have been the situation today if there had been a vote " yes" in 2014. The actual separation was planned to take place this year. If this had happened and the remaining UK does vote "Out" , where would that leave Scotland. The U.K. could withdraw all monetary support,only allowing the use of the £ on UK terms, while at the same time trying to join a failing EU, that in all probability,if there is still a Eu,would reject Scotland's application on the insistence of Spain.

"Ah" I get it now,there is always the possibility of going cap in hand to the IMF.

Edited March 4, 2016 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

Is't it amazing that during the Separation referendum in 2014, the SNP kept going on about the value, to the Scottish economy of North Sea oil. This was when oil was at approx 120$, now it is at approx 30$, some of those blinkered nationalist are now saying oil revenue is not that important. Not only is the economy of Aberdeen in free fall, now we have reports from the likes of Strathclyde university confirming that yes the Scottish economy is further starting to slow down, and this is even before the full impact of reduced oil revenue takes effect. Presumable the likes of Salmons and Sturgeon will now blame the international oil crisis on England,while expecting the remainder of the U.K. to further financially support their none costed socialist policies.

Further more we have the SNP bizarrely supporting the in-campaign. What would have been the situation today if there had been a vote " yes" in 2014. The actual separation was planned to take place this year. If this had happened and the remaining UK does vote "Out" , where would that leave Scotland. The U.K. could withdraw all monetary support,only allowing the use of the £ on UK terms, while at the same time trying to join a failing EU, that in all probability,if there is still a Eu,would reject Scotland's application on the insistence of Spain.

"Ah" I get it now,there is always the possibility of going cap in hand to the IMF.

Of course oil at $120 was a significant contributor to any economy, but the point was always made that oil was a bonus. That the bonus has much reduced, were we to be independent we would cut our cloth accordingly, although hopefully not in the divisive manner our current chancellor sees as appropriate.

Aberdeen is a microcosm of oil industry and related services. Like any other oil town, it is suffering. That is undeniable, and the Scottish government is taking commendable measures to try to support the industry and the region. As for the rest of the UK financially supporting Scotland, all our income is via the Barnett formula, as you are well aware. I am sure that you are also aware that the Scottish government requested the scrapping of the formula and the devolution of all Scottish financial instruments to Holyrood, a request denied by Westminster. If you don't wish to support your fellow countrymen, blame the English electorate for the current line up of drug abusing posh boys in power, but don't blame the Scots who have long rejected Conservatism.

I am actually in a bit of a quandry. I can see the value of continuing to be part of a reformed EU, but I also relish the possibility of a Brexit leading to the break up of the UK. Which way to lean...

[nontabury]

Is't it amazing that during the Separation referendum in 2014, the SNP kept going on about the value, to the Scottish economy of North Sea oil. This was when oil was at approx 120$, now it is at approx 30$, some of those blinkered nationalist are now saying oil revenue is not that important. Not only is the economy of Aberdeen in free fall, now we have reports from the likes of Strathclyde university confirming that yes the Scottish economy is further starting to slow down, and this is even before the full impact of reduced oil revenue takes effect. Presumable the likes of Salmons and Sturgeon will now blame the international oil crisis on England,while expecting the remainder of the U.K. to further financially support their none costed socialist policies.

Further more we have the SNP bizarrely supporting the in-campaign. What would have been the situation today if there had been a vote " yes" in 2014. The actual separation was planned to take place this year. If this had happened and the remaining UK does vote "Out" , where would that leave Scotland. The U.K. could withdraw all monetary support,only allowing the use of the £ on UK terms, while at the same time trying to join a failing EU, that in all probability,if there is still a Eu,would reject Scotland's application on the insistence of Spain.

"Ah" I get it now,there is always the possibility of going cap in hand to the IMF.

Of course oil at $120 was a significant contributor to any economy, but the point was always made that oil was a bonus. That the bonus has much reduced, were we to be independent we would cut our cloth accordingly, although hopefully not in the divisive manner our current chancellor sees as appropriate.

Aberdeen is a microcosm of oil industry and related services. Like any other oil town, it is suffering. That is undeniable, and the Scottish government is taking commendable measures to try to support the industry and the region. As for the rest of the UK financially supporting Scotland, all our income is via the Barnett formula, as you are well aware. I am sure that you are also aware that the Scottish government requested the scrapping of the formula and the devolution of all Scottish financial instruments to Holyrood, a request denied by Westminster. If you don't wish to support your fellow countrymen, blame the English electorate for the current line up of drug abusing posh boys in power, but don't blame the Scots who have long rejected Conservatism.

I am actually in a bit of a quandry. I can see the value of continuing to be part of a reformed EU, but I also relish the possibility of a Brexit leading to the break up of the UK. Which way to lean...

Two Main points.

1/ at the time of the referendum,according to Salmonds, oil was far MORE than a bonus to the Scottish excheguer. I 'm sure you are aware that Salmonds used to be the chief oil economist at the Royal Bank of Scotland so presumable he knew something about the subject. Yet even then in 2014 many economist,including Scottish economist disputed, that even including the oil revenue, that Scotland would be able to support itself at the rate of expectant expenditure envisaged by the SNP.

2/ You did not answer my points regarding,what would have been the situation now,if the vote had resulted in separation.

As I have recommended to you before. You should go and find a fellow Scotsman who did vote to reject separation, kneel before them and kiss the soles of their feet. As it is because of their vote that Scotland,is today not a basket case economy.

[RuamRudy]

Is't it amazing that during the Separation referendum in 2014, the SNP kept going on about the value, to the Scottish economy of North Sea oil. This was when oil was at approx 120$, now it is at approx 30$, some of those blinkered nationalist are now saying oil revenue is not that important. Not only is the economy of Aberdeen in free fall, now we have reports from the likes of Strathclyde university confirming that yes the Scottish economy is further starting to slow down, and this is even before the full impact of reduced oil revenue takes effect. Presumable the likes of Salmons and Sturgeon will now blame the international oil crisis on England,while expecting the remainder of the U.K. to further financially support their none costed socialist policies.

Further more we have the SNP bizarrely supporting the in-campaign. What would have been the situation today if there had been a vote " yes" in 2014. The actual separation was planned to take place this year. If this had happened and the remaining UK does vote "Out" , where would that leave Scotland. The U.K. could withdraw all monetary support,only allowing the use of the £ on UK terms, while at the same time trying to join a failing EU, that in all probability,if there is still a Eu,would reject Scotland's application on the insistence of Spain.

"Ah" I get it now,there is always the possibility of going cap in hand to the IMF.

Of course oil at $120 was a significant contributor to any economy, but the point was always made that oil was a bonus. That the bonus has much reduced, were we to be independent we would cut our cloth accordingly, although hopefully not in the divisive manner our current chancellor sees as appropriate.

Aberdeen is a microcosm of oil industry and related services. Like any other oil town, it is suffering. That is undeniable, and the Scottish government is taking commendable measures to try to support the industry and the region. As for the rest of the UK financially supporting Scotland, all our income is via the Barnett formula, as you are well aware. I am sure that you are also aware that the Scottish government requested the scrapping of the formula and the devolution of all Scottish financial instruments to Holyrood, a request denied by Westminster. If you don't wish to support your fellow countrymen, blame the English electorate for the current line up of drug abusing posh boys in power, but don't blame the Scots who have long rejected Conservatism.

I am actually in a bit of a quandry. I can see the value of continuing to be part of a reformed EU, but I also relish the possibility of a Brexit leading to the break up of the UK. Which way to lean...

Two Main points.

1/ at the time of the referendum,according to Salmonds, oil was far MORE than a bonus to the Scottish excheguer. I 'm sure you are aware that Salmonds used to be the chief oil economist at the Royal Bank of Scotland so presumable he knew something about the subject. Yet even then in 2014 many economist,including Scottish economist disputed, that even including the oil revenue, that Scotland would be able to support itself at the rate of expectant expenditure envisaged by the SNP.

2/ You did not answer my points regarding,what would have been the situation now,if the vote had resulted in separation.

As I have recommended to you before. You should go and find a fellow Scotsman who did vote to reject separation, kneel before them and kiss the soles of their feet. As it is because of their vote that Scotland,is today not a basket case economy.

As I mentioned, like any government, an independent Scottish government would be forced to budget within the constraints of its available funding. The UK government does that now, albeit with the bulk of the cuts being shouldered by those less able to shoulder them. Likewise, a Scottish government would be similarly constrained. We would, however, be free of several unnecessary drains on the treasury - HS2 and Trident for starters.

Also, I would expect that the Scottish government would take a more balanced approach to taxing big business, rather than letting the Amazons and Starbucks of the world dictate their own tax terms. I would expect that our finance minister actually manages to force big business to pay proper rates of tax, unlike our weak, cocaine-addled joke of a chancellor, the laughing stock of Europe following Google's running rings around him.

I am not sure if anyone ever said that independence would be painless. Of course there would be sacrifices and periods of uncertainty, but I am sure that there are many who, like me, see the prize being about so much more than money. So no, I am still confident in my belief that the wrong result was delivered. Unfortunately our country will continue to stagnate while an unelected Tory elite continue to ignore the north of England and the rest of the UK while they rig everything to suit them and their friends.