What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

[soalbundy]

Britain or England would go from strength to strength. We would not be bogged down with useless red tape from the EU. We would become inventive again . We could do what we always use to do when standing alone use our brains without restraint from Europe.

do what we always used to do, strike over cream cakes ( Fords ) weld the car carrosserie with whisky bottles on the inside for fun (British Leyland ) etc. Pride in ones work disappeared from the UK in the 1950's. It wasn't always the workers at fault, employers plowing the profits into the good life instead of investing in new technology played a large part of getting left behind and apart from some few scientific endevours and the banking industry we still are no bright sparks. I thankfully left the UK when i turned 21 and at now 67 i have never been back but do enjoy a large German state pension ( from the age of 58) which is increased each year despite my living in Thailand.

Edited March 5, 2016 by soalbundy

[Grouse]

Britain or England would go from strength to strength. We would not be bogged down with useless red tape from the EU. We would become inventive again . We could do what we always use to do when standing alone use our brains without restraint from Europe.

do what we always used to do, strike over cream cakes ( Fords ) weld the car carrosserie with whisky bottles on the inside for fun (British Leyland ) etc. Pride in ones work disappeared from the UK in the 1950's. It wasn't always the workers at fault, employers plowing the profits into the good life instead of investing in new technology played a large part of getting left behind and apart from some few scientific endevours and the banking industry we still are no bright sparks. I thankfully left the UK when i turned 21 and at now 67 i have never been back but do enjoy a large German state pension ( from the age of 58) which is increased each year despite my living in Thailand.

Well said!

Sadly our brethren just won't face facts

UK manufacturing is down to about 9% of the economy compared to 25% in the 70s. Because of unions forcing high wages? I don't think so! Look at German wages. No it was a failure to invest in automation for productivity and quality

I am sorry most of my pension will be as a result of UK contributions. Crap compared to Germany or Denmark....

Shall I go on with University tuition fees? Tesco apprenticeships? Or just shut up now ?

[allanos]

There is no question that the United Kingdom's manufacturing base is only a shadow of its former greatness.

But one of its strengths, in the modern era, is to excel in niche areas; banking, science and technology, bio-medical

engineering, etc., so it is not entirely a lost cause.

The EU's original raison d'etre was as a common market, which made a lot of sense to the early entrants into the

club. Undoubtedly, the benefits of that market are huge, for Britain, as it is an entity comprising 500-plus

millions.

However, there are larger markets outside of the EU (think India, China, a combined North and South America)

which the United Kingdom could focus on. The idea of being outside the EU is by no means all doom and gloom,

and may be exactly what the UK needs as a kick up the rump to start to manufacture and export "things" again, as

well as concentrating on those niche areas in which it presently has prowess.

I have stated elsewhere that I believe that the EU "ins" are using fear-mongering as their weapon of choice in the

present in/out debate. The positive case for Britain being outside has not yet been aired properly.

[soalbundy]

There is no question that the United Kingdom's manufacturing base is only a shadow of its former greatness.

But one of its strengths, in the modern era, is to excel in niche areas; banking, science and technology, bio-medical

engineering, etc., so it is not entirely a lost cause.

The EU's original raison d'etre was as a common market, which made a lot of sense to the early entrants into the

club. Undoubtedly, the benefits of that market are huge, for Britain, as it is an entity comprising 500-plus

millions.

However, there are larger markets outside of the EU (think India, China, a combined North and South America)

which the United Kingdom could focus on. The idea of being outside the EU is by no means all doom and gloom,

and may be exactly what the UK needs as a kick up the rump to start to manufacture and export "things" again, as

well as concentrating on those niche areas in which it presently has prowess.

I have stated elsewhere that I believe that the EU "ins" are using fear-mongering as their weapon of choice in the

present in/out debate. The positive case for Britain being outside has not yet been aired properly.

Yes they do excel in niche products but that doesn't help the general population. if you go into China or India you will be competing against the know how of at least the Northern countries of the EU and what are you going to sell ? a Rolls Royce with a BMW engine and a bodywork stamped in Germany, OH wait,like the Mini it's owned by BMW, how about electronics ? sorry Siemens and Bosch are way ahead, Hydro dam's, trains ? sorry Siemens will get there first, special steel then, nope, Krupps is there ( incidently my father was in the navy on a monitor ship in WW 2, firing 15 inch shells on to German positions on D-day he noticed that the shells had been manufactured by Krupps)

[SgtRock]

What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

Dark.

Apparently the sun will never rise again.

[Grouse]

As must be bloody obvious by now, I tend toward the INs

BUT it's not a simple issue

There are many things that need fixing

We export a little less than 50% to EU

EU exports about 10% to us

Contributions are average. We are number 9/10 net contributors

We get massive inward investment because of being English speaking and in EU. Watch that go to Eire!

Now the market for services is just opening. Great time to bail out!

Great article in The Economist comparing Peterborough and Cambridge with regard to Brexit attitudes. Polar opposites - would be interesting to see if there is a correlation with education? (Can't stop grinning)

[soalbundy]

What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

Dark.

Apparently the sun will never rise again.

Oh it will rise again, with a dim light. The employers are already thinking about about stopping paid holidays for British workers in the case of a Brexit. When thinking about some of the stupid laws made by the EU one should also consider laws made for the protection of workers rights which GB grudgingly put into place, they certainly didn't like the protection against excessive overtime.

[allanos]

There is no question that the United Kingdom's manufacturing base is only a shadow of its former greatness.

But one of its strengths, in the modern era, is to excel in niche areas; banking, science and technology, bio-medical

engineering, etc., so it is not entirely a lost cause.

The EU's original raison d'etre was as a common market, which made a lot of sense to the early entrants into the

club. Undoubtedly, the benefits of that market are huge, for Britain, as it is an entity comprising 500-plus

millions.

However, there are larger markets outside of the EU (think India, China, a combined North and South America)

which the United Kingdom could focus on. The idea of being outside the EU is by no means all doom and gloom,

and may be exactly what the UK needs as a kick up the rump to start to manufacture and export "things" again, as

well as concentrating on those niche areas in which it presently has prowess.

I have stated elsewhere that I believe that the EU "ins" are using fear-mongering as their weapon of choice in the

present in/out debate. The positive case for Britain being outside has not yet been aired properly.

Yes they do excel in niche products but that doesn't help the general population. if you go into China or India you will be competing against the know how of at least the Northern countries of the EU and what are you going to sell ? a Rolls Royce with a BMW engine and a bodywork stamped in Germany, OH wait,like the Mini it's owned by BMW, how about electronics ? sorry Siemens and Bosch are way ahead, Hydro dam's, trains ? sorry Siemens will get there first, special steel then, nope, Krupps is there ( incidently my father was in the navy on a monitor ship in WW 2, firing 15 inch shells on to German positions on D-day he noticed that the shells had been manufactured by Krupps)

Interesting anecdote about the Krupps shells. Poetic justice, maybe? I wonder how long Germany's pre-eminence, and, indeed, the status quo of the other industrialised countries in the EU, will last, once subsumed by the coming socio-economic chaos and devastation which will be heaped upon them following Angela Merkel's short-sighted immigration policies. I hope that your bountiful pension will not be under threat, going forward.

[Grouse]

Scare politics?

The Germans still have the heirs to I G Farben....

[Grouse]

Sorry, forgot to raise the irony warning flag!

[soalbundy]

There is no question that the United Kingdom's manufacturing base is only a shadow of its former greatness.

But one of its strengths, in the modern era, is to excel in niche areas; banking, science and technology, bio-medical

engineering, etc., so it is not entirely a lost cause.

The EU's original raison d'etre was as a common market, which made a lot of sense to the early entrants into the

club. Undoubtedly, the benefits of that market are huge, for Britain, as it is an entity comprising 500-plus

millions.

However, there are larger markets outside of the EU (think India, China, a combined North and South America)

which the United Kingdom could focus on. The idea of being outside the EU is by no means all doom and gloom,

and may be exactly what the UK needs as a kick up the rump to start to manufacture and export "things" again, as

well as concentrating on those niche areas in which it presently has prowess.

I have stated elsewhere that I believe that the EU "ins" are using fear-mongering as their weapon of choice in the

present in/out debate. The positive case for Britain being outside has not yet been aired properly.

Yes they do excel in niche products but that doesn't help the general population. if you go into China or India you will be competing against the know how of at least the Northern countries of the EU and what are you going to sell ? a Rolls Royce with a BMW engine and a bodywork stamped in Germany, OH wait,like the Mini it's owned by BMW, how about electronics ? sorry Siemens and Bosch are way ahead, Hydro dam's, trains ? sorry Siemens will get there first, special steel then, nope, Krupps is there ( incidently my father was in the navy on a monitor ship in WW 2, firing 15 inch shells on to German positions on D-day he noticed that the shells had been manufactured by Krupps)

Interesting anecdote about the Krupps shells. Poetic justice, maybe? I wonder how long Germany's pre-eminence, and, indeed, the status quo of the other industrialised countries in the EU, will last, once subsumed by the coming socio-economic chaos and devastation which will be heaped upon them following Angela Merkel's short-sighted immigration policies. I hope that your bountiful pension will not be under threat, going forward.

As much as i am against the Muslim hoard descending into Europe it could be a blessing in disguise, countries like Germany and Italy have very low birth rates and an increase in young working people can only be of benefit. There are already 2nd and 3rd generation Turks in Germany and for the most part they have integrated well, even eating Schweinshaxen (roasted pork leg) and drinking beer (who could resist a weiss bier in a beer garden) i asked a Turk about this while he was drinking a beer, ''I'm in Germany, Allah not see'' grin,grin. In the design department at BMW i met many different nationalities even people from Iran working on CAD CAM machines, no problems. As for my pension ( i get two, one from the state and one from BMW ) Germany is a law abiding and true to contract country, the world would have to collapse before they not pay me my pension.

[soalbundy]

Sorry, forgot to raise the irony warning flag!

good one, like the Boers never forgetting the British concentration camps in South Africa.

At BMW we did a project with a British firm, the first idea was rejected so a second idea was brought to life named V2 (version two) until my boss, an Austrian, decided we ought to find another name.

[GAZZPA]

This insular mentality ' our islands way of life' could break the UK's neck. The only thing the UK does well is to pee over its working population.

There is no insular mentality, you have no idea what you are talking about. The UK is one of the most cosmopolitan and open countries on earth with citizens living there peacefully from hundreds of different countries. indeed many different cultures have even effected a change in British culture itself.

The reason why the UK are considering leaving is because they are sick of the mess that is the EU, tired of not being able to control it's boarders, tired of stupid EU legislation like the shape of bananas, tired of ploughing money into the EU for what is generally a crap return. The trading with the EU would not be lost forever, in fact it could open it's door wider to other international markets by striking trade deals with China and the US.

I for one am sick of the EU but have to confess being nervous about leaving it. I need to read and understand more but it is quite a complex issue and people disagree on so much. But whatever the UK do it is not motivated by an insular mentality.

You are clueless, have you even been there?

Fighting on the beaches in defence of curved bananas. Way to go.

Tongue in cheek comment, which you obviously failed to notice. I assume you come from somewhere with no sense of humour.

[Grouse]

There is no question that the United Kingdom's manufacturing base is only a shadow of its former greatness.

But one of its strengths, in the modern era, is to excel in niche areas; banking, science and technology, bio-medical

engineering, etc., so it is not entirely a lost cause.

The EU's original raison d'etre was as a common market, which made a lot of sense to the early entrants into the

club. Undoubtedly, the benefits of that market are huge, for Britain, as it is an entity comprising 500-plus

millions.

However, there are larger markets outside of the EU (think India, China, a combined North and South America)

which the United Kingdom could focus on. The idea of being outside the EU is by no means all doom and gloom,

and may be exactly what the UK needs as a kick up the rump to start to manufacture and export "things" again, as

well as concentrating on those niche areas in which it presently has prowess.

I have stated elsewhere that I believe that the EU "ins" are using fear-mongering as their weapon of choice in the

present in/out debate. The positive case for Britain being outside has not yet been aired properly.

Yes they do excel in niche products but that doesn't help the general population. if you go into China or India you will be competing against the know how of at least the Northern countries of the EU and what are you going to sell ? a Rolls Royce with a BMW engine and a bodywork stamped in Germany, OH wait,like the Mini it's owned by BMW, how about electronics ? sorry Siemens and Bosch are way ahead, Hydro dam's, trains ? sorry Siemens will get there first, special steel then, nope, Krupps is there ( incidently my father was in the navy on a monitor ship in WW 2, firing 15 inch shells on to German positions on D-day he noticed that the shells had been manufactured by Krupps)

Interesting anecdote about the Krupps shells. Poetic justice, maybe? I wonder how long Germany's pre-eminence, and, indeed, the status quo of the other industrialised countries in the EU, will last, once subsumed by the coming socio-economic chaos and devastation which will be heaped upon them following Angela Merkel's short-sighted immigration policies. I hope that your bountiful pension will not be under threat, going forward.

As much as i am against the Muslim hoard descending into Europe it could be a blessing in disguise, countries like Germany and Italy have very low birth rates and an increase in young working people can only be of benefit. There are already 2nd and 3rd generation Turks in Germany and for the most part they have integrated well, even eating Schweinshaxen (roasted pork leg) and drinking beer (who could resist a weiss bier in a beer garden) i asked a Turk about this while he was drinking a beer, ''I'm in Germany, Allah not see'' grin,grin. In the design department at BMW i met many different nationalities even people from Iran working on CAD CAM machines, no problems. As for my pension ( i get two, one from the state and one from BMW ) Germany is a law abiding and true to contract country, the world would have to collapse before they not pay me my pension.

stimmt!

[GAZZPA]

What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

Dark.

Apparently the sun will never rise again.

Oh it will rise again, with a dim light. The employers are already thinking about about stopping paid holidays for British workers in the case of a Brexit. When thinking about some of the stupid laws made by the EU one should also consider laws made for the protection of workers rights which GB grudgingly put into place, they certainly didn't like the protection against excessive overtime.

What a load of BS scaremongering. Show me evidence of a company that is planning to drop paid holidays if the UK pull out of the EU? It is just speculation by people who don't want to leave the EU and are using "fear" with the populous to deter against the "out" vote.

Only a fool would believe this...

[Grouse]

What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

Dark.

Apparently the sun will never rise again.

Oh it will rise again, with a dim light. The employers are already thinking about about stopping paid holidays for British workers in the case of a Brexit. When thinking about some of the stupid laws made by the EU one should also consider laws made for the protection of workers rights which GB grudgingly put into place, they certainly didn't like the protection against excessive overtime.

What a load of BS scaremongering. Show me evidence of a company that is planning to drop paid holidays if the UK pull out of the EU? It is just speculation by people who don't want to leave the EU and are using "fear" with the populous to deter against the "out" vote.

Only a fool would believe this...

The irony flag was not waved!

ESSENTIAL when you have educationaly challenged contributors!

[soalbundy]

What would a British exit from the EU, or 'Brexit' look like?

Dark.

Apparently the sun will never rise again.

Oh it will rise again, with a dim light. The employers are already thinking about about stopping paid holidays for British workers in the case of a Brexit. When thinking about some of the stupid laws made by the EU one should also consider laws made for the protection of workers rights which GB grudgingly put into place, they certainly didn't like the protection against excessive overtime.

What a load of BS scaremongering. Show me evidence of a company that is planning to drop paid holidays if the UK pull out of the EU? It is just speculation by people who don't want to leave the EU and are using "fear" with the populous to deter against the "out" vote.

Only a fool would believe this...

No evidence, just an opinion from the shadow business secretary.

www.independant.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-workers-rights-paid-holiday-brexit-labour-angela-eagle-a6901146.html

[allanos]

One swallow doesn't make a summer. The Turks may have integrated well, because their migration to Germany was well-managed, and,

initially, they were only there as "gastarbeiter". They, themselves, took great pains to see that they would integrate, and become accepted

by the German populace, or their short-term sojourns would have been curtailed.

With the onslaught of the "Muslim hoard", so-called, managing it will not be so easy. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of these

immigrants, at the moment, are males of a particular demographic. When they start to send for their wives and off-spring, and, potentially,

extended families, as used to happen in Britain, we are looking at a horse of a different colour! The strain on the German fiscus is going

to be huge, taxes will be raised, and we will see how happen the average German will be with his lot, then.

The Muslims living in France and Belgium have not integrated at all well. I cannot see that Germany will fare any better, and, in fact,

in view of the deluge, may end up a lot worse than the effects seen in those other two countries.

Conceivably, being out of the EU, or "Brexit" as it is being called, may be the best possible outcome for the United Kingdom, even whilst

facing an uncertain future.

[tonbridgebrit]

Okay, how about this ?

The EU is about freedom of movement of goods and workers. Right now, freedom of movement of workers has meant a movement of workers from low-wage countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc) to places like Britain. Most people in Britain do feel that a lot of the low-paid and unskilled jobs in Britain are being done by the cheaper foreigners. Basically, British people who are doing such jobs are being forced to compete against them foreigners.

Now, yes, overall, Britain does benefit from this influx of cheaper labour. But British people who do low-paid and un-skilled jobs are being forced to compete against this foreign cheaper labour. Is it right for a country to 'import' a large number of these workers ? Lots of people do feel that bringing in a moderate number of cheaper foreigners is a good thing. But bringing in loads is not a good thing, it just makes life harder for some local people.

And that's where Brexit comes in. Brexit will massively reduce the number of low-paid Eastern Europeans in Britain. And surely, this will help low-paid workers in Britain ? It will be easier to get such jobs, and the wages will be slghtly higher too.

I do want to see low-paid workers in Britain becoming better off. But I do reckon that overall, Britain is better off in the EU rather than out of the EU.

[soalbundy]

One swallow doesn't make a summer. The Turks may have integrated well, because their migration to Germany was well-managed, and,

initially, they were only there as "gastarbeiter". They, themselves, took great pains to see that they would integrate, and become accepted

by the German populace, or their short-term sojourns would have been curtailed.

With the onslaught of the "Muslim hoard", so-called, managing it will not be so easy. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of these

immigrants, at the moment, are males of a particular demographic. When they start to send for their wives and off-spring, and, potentially,

extended families, as used to happen in Britain, we are looking at a horse of a different colour! The strain on the German fiscus is going

to be huge, taxes will be raised, and we will see how happen the average German will be with his lot, then.

The Muslims living in France and Belgium have not integrated at all well. I cannot see that Germany will fare any better, and, in fact,

in view of the deluge, may end up a lot worse than the effects seen in those other two countries.

Conceivably, being out of the EU, or "Brexit" as it is being called, may be the best possible outcome for the United Kingdom, even whilst

facing an uncertain future.

It is true that the Muslims in France haven't integrated well but due to the Algerian war or uprising a certain amount of hate on both sides was generated. This is only my opinion, i think that the French have relegated the Algerian, if not all Muslims to the loser side of the table and haven't given them the chance, education,good jobs etc. to integrate and therein lies the problem. Germany is by no means perfect but they are pragmatic, if someone shows willingness and can do the job they don't care where he or she comes from they get a chance. A couple of years ago i read that a Turkish girl won a national prize in Germany for the best spoken German and best reading ability and this against home grown Germans, there was no jealousy it was simply accepted. One thing good in Germany or at least it was some time ago they aren't so PC. I remember an instance many years ago that the Turkish Muslims wanted the production band stopped a couple of times a day to pray for 10 minuets, the foremans answer, yes ok, take your prayer mats to the dining hall and pray and then walk out of the gate and don't come back, end of protest. I personally am desperately in favour of the EU, i would like to see the United States of Europe.

Edited March 5, 2016 by soalbundy

[allanos]

Whilst, until recently, I was in favour of a United States of Europe, if for no other reason than to counter the other

large trading blocs around the world, I feel that it may yet be shown to be a house of cards, and, overwhelming

Muslim immigration notwithstanding, a British exit will bring the whole edifice tumbling down.

[Grouse]

Okay, how about this ?

The EU is about freedom of movement of goods and workers. Right now, freedom of movement of workers has meant a movement of workers from low-wage countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc) to places like Britain. Most people in Britain do feel that a lot of the low-paid and unskilled jobs in Britain are being done by the cheaper foreigners. Basically, British people who are doing such jobs are being forced to compete against them foreigners.

Now, yes, overall, Britain does benefit from this influx of cheaper labour. But British people who do low-paid and un-skilled jobs are being forced to compete against this foreign cheaper labour. Is it right for a country to 'import' a large number of these workers ? Lots of people do feel that bringing in a moderate number of cheaper foreigners is a good thing. But bringing in loads is not a good thing, it just makes life harder for some local people.

And that's where Brexit comes in. Brexit will massively reduce the number of low-paid Eastern Europeans in Britain. And surely, this will help low-paid workers in Britain ? It will be easier to get such jobs, and the wages will be slghtly higher too.

I do want to see low-paid workers in Britain becoming better off. But I do reckon that overall, Britain is better off in the EU rather than out of the EU.

If "low paid" workers want to get on, get an education

I am entirely happy having Romanians picking potatoes and Poles bending pipes for peanuts

In the meantime we can send high tech products into a 500M people market!

[soalbundy]

Whilst, until recently, I was in favour of a United States of Europe, if for no other reason than to counter the other

large trading blocs around the world, I feel that it may yet be shown to be a house of cards, and, overwhelming

Muslim immigration notwithstanding, a British exit will bring the whole edifice tumbling down.

I don't see this ghost of Muslim immigration being so serious as long as our gutless oh so PC orientated politicians demand that they respect the law of the land and integrate with no special favours. The help given today in monetary terms would be paid back many times as tax payers in the future. Britain and indeed France and Germany have been countries of immigration for a long time now with no real adverse effect,London prides itself as have over 200 languages spoken in this one city alone,something i abhor, if you come to the UK you speak English,if you go to France you speak French. Are we so weak that an influx of foreigners can bring us to our knees? i don't think so. What could bring us to our knees are gutless spineless law makers.

[tonbridgebrit]

Okay, how about this ?

The EU is about freedom of movement of goods and workers. Right now, freedom of movement of workers has meant a movement of workers from low-wage countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc) to places like Britain. Most people in Britain do feel that a lot of the low-paid and unskilled jobs in Britain are being done by the cheaper foreigners. Basically, British people who are doing such jobs are being forced to compete against them foreigners.

Now, yes, overall, Britain does benefit from this influx of cheaper labour. But British people who do low-paid and un-skilled jobs are being forced to compete against this foreign cheaper labour. Is it right for a country to 'import' a large number of these workers ? Lots of people do feel that bringing in a moderate number of cheaper foreigners is a good thing. But bringing in loads is not a good thing, it just makes life harder for some local people.

And that's where Brexit comes in. Brexit will massively reduce the number of low-paid Eastern Europeans in Britain. And surely, this will help low-paid workers in Britain ? It will be easier to get such jobs, and the wages will be slghtly higher too.

I do want to see low-paid workers in Britain becoming better off. But I do reckon that overall, Britain is better off in the EU rather than out of the EU.

If "low paid" workers want to get on, get an education

I am entirely happy having Romanians picking potatoes and Poles bending pipes for peanuts

In the meantime we can send high tech products into a 500M people market!

You go and say that people should get an education. But those who are over 25 mainly don't want to go back into education to get new qualifications. Also, loads of people born in Britain are simply not going to be able to pass lots of exams and get whatever qualifications.

So, for youngsters who are not going to be able to get qualifications, and for others who don't want to get re-trained to do a more skilled job, well, is it right to allow a whole load of cheaper foreigners to come in, and force British people to compete against them ??

Yes, fine, you're happy with Romanians working for low wages in Britain's farms. We all know that there's a fair number of Eastern Europeans who are doing this. But I take it, you're not a person who works in such a job. Yes, YOU benefit by getting cheaper potatoes and lettuce in the shops. But what about British people who are working in those jobs, being forced to compete against the cheap labour ?

Every nation is suppose to do things that benefits it's own citizens. Surely, we accept that ? Drafting in lots of cheap foreign labour ? This slightly harms locals who are low-paid, and it benefits locals who don't need to compete against the cheap foreigners. Oh, so we're going to see our poor people continue to be poor ?

Is that a good thing for our nation ? Surely, not ?

[Grouse]

With the global economy and no currency controls this is the nature of the beast

Trying to pull up the draw bridge or being a Luddite won't work

I don't make the rules but I am telling the truth

Lifetime education is key

If you don't understand that then prepare to be trampled under foot...

Sorry

[Grouse]

With the global economy and no currency controls this is the nature of the beast

Trying to pull up the draw bridge or being a Luddite won't work

I don't make the rules but I am telling the truth

Lifetime education is key

If you don't understand that then prepare to be trampled under foot...

Sorry

But not all is lost

1) I think correctly imposed minimum wages and conditions are key

2) I think the sooner we get away from university education for all, the better. Look at German Mittelstand companies. Most of their staff come from technical colleges. Do you remember when we had technical colleges and polytechnics? What happened to them. I reckon an HNC was an all time most useful qualification.

Ultimately, there is no escape from keeping current in the face of automation and global competition. ?

[kingalfred]

If they leave it could take 10 years or more just to finalise all the necessary arrangements.

It takes a long time to join the EU so I would think it's going to take at last as long, if not longer to leave.

what an imagination you have!

[tonbridgebrit]

With the global economy and no currency controls this is the nature of the beast

Trying to pull up the draw bridge or being a Luddite won't work

I don't make the rules but I am telling the truth

Lifetime education is key

If you don't understand that then prepare to be trampled under foot...

Sorry

But not all is lost

1) I think correctly imposed minimum wages and conditions are key

2) I think the sooner we get away from university education for all, the better. Look at German Mittelstand companies. Most of their staff come from technical colleges. Do you remember when we had technical colleges and polytechnics? What happened to them. I reckon an HNC was an all time most useful qualification.

Ultimately, there is no escape from keeping current in the face of automation and global competition. ?

Luddites are people who try to stop new technology reducing the number of staff in whatever industries. I agree, Luddites are damaging to any system. But in Britain (and some other countries as well), the local people are being replaced by cheaper foreigners, they're not really being replaced by new technology. Britain still needs people who are going to do unskilled and semi-skilled labour.

Educating people, and giving them skills ? Well, yes, off-course, I totally support more colleges and more teaching of skills for the work-place. Now then, IF 90% of British youngsters have the qualifications to do skilled labour, fine, let them do skilled labour (it should be highly paid). So, that leaves just 10% of youngsters who are unskilled, well, fine, Britain then has a shortage of unskilled labour, and this will cause wages in such jobs to rocket. In that case, Britain needs to import foreigners (cheap foreigners) to do unskilled labour because there are NOT enough local people to do this type of jobs. But right now, that isn't the case, is it ?

Right now, I think at least a third of all British people cannot do skilled labour, and these people are being forced to compete against the cheap foreign labour.

Being trampled under foot ? Well, allowing a large number of cheaper foreigners to compete against a large number of unskilled British people IS trampling people under foot. It does not have to be this way. Skilled British people can work, and export the high technology goods that will rake in money from foreign countries. At the same time, the well-paid Brits doing these jobs will pay a decent wage to the poorer ones who are unskilled workers. What's so bad about that ? Is it good to have a situation where well-paid Brits are going to pay lower wages to cheap foreigners, and this keeps unskiled British people poor ? Surely, not ?

I mean, how about this, pay a decent wage for local people to sweep the streets and clean the public toilets ? Oh, instead, we're now going to draft in some cheap foreigners to do these jobs, because they're cheaper to employ. Does that really make the country more competitive ?? Surely, it doesn't.

[Grouse]

With the global economy and no currency controls this is the nature of the beast

Trying to pull up the draw bridge or being a Luddite won't work

I don't make the rules but I am telling the truth

Lifetime education is key

If you don't understand that then prepare to be trampled under foot...

Sorry

But not all is lost

1) I think correctly imposed minimum wages and conditions are key

2) I think the sooner we get away from university education for all, the better. Look at German Mittelstand companies. Most of their staff come from technical colleges. Do you remember when we had technical colleges and polytechnics? What happened to them. I reckon an HNC was an all time most useful qualification.

Ultimately, there is no escape from keeping current in the face of automation and global competition. ?

Luddites are people who try to stop new technology reducing the number of staff in whatever industries. I agree, Luddites are damaging to any system. But in Britain (and some other countries as well), the local people are being replaced by cheaper foreigners, they're not really being replaced by new technology. Britain still needs people who are going to do unskilled and semi-skilled labour.

Educating people, and giving them skills ? Well, yes, off-course, I totally support more colleges and more teaching of skills for the work-place. Now then, IF 90% of British youngsters have the qualifications to do skilled labour, fine, let them do skilled labour (it should be highly paid). So, that leaves just 10% of youngsters who are unskilled, well, fine, Britain then has a shortage of unskilled labour, and this will cause wages in such jobs to rocket. In that case, Britain needs to import foreigners (cheap foreigners) to do unskilled labour because there are NOT enough local people to do this type of jobs. But right now, that isn't the case, is it ?

Right now, I think at least a third of all British people cannot do skilled labour, and these people are being forced to compete against the cheap foreign labour.

Being trampled under foot ? Well, allowing a large number of cheaper foreigners to compete against a large number of unskilled British people IS trampling people under foot. It does not have to be this way. Skilled British people can work, and export the high technology goods that will rake in money from foreign countries. At the same time, the well-paid Brits doing these jobs will pay a decent wage to the poorer ones who are unskilled workers. What's so bad about that ? Is it good to have a situation where well-paid Brits are going to pay lower wages to cheap foreigners, and this keeps unskiled British people poor ? Surely, not ?

I mean, how about this, pay a decent wage for local people to sweep the streets and clean the public toilets ? Oh, instead, we're now going to draft in some cheap foreigners to do these jobs, because they're cheaper to employ. Does that really make the country more competitive ?? Surely, it doesn't.

Well argued!

Very unusual on TV to have an intelligent discussion!

[tonbridgebrit]

Hello there, Grouse.

I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Just in case, please do not think that I am angry, sometimes, people think I'm launching into a rant on ThaiVisa !

Yes, I have these conversations with friends in the local pub or whatever bar in Thailand. I think these types of conversations are happening throughout Britain, and just about everywhere that British people are at.

Hey, no need to go to the pub, I can have this type of conversation on ThaiVisa !
As I said earlier, I do reckon Britain should stay in the EU, the benefits of staying in are slighty greater than leaving.