Bangkok burglar picks the wrong house to rob as off duty cop shoots him dead

[Jimbo53]

Person...who should not have been where he was, versus Inexperienced Cop with gun!!! Result = Negative!!!

[connda]

My home in Jomtien was burgled some 25 years ago. The investigating policemen (all 12 of them!) wanted money to try and find the thief.

One officer told me that if I had a gun, and saw the thief, i could shoot him,...........but as I was a farang, it would be better in the event that ever happened to say the wife shot him. He concluded by offering to sell me his gun for 6,000baht!

What did he have, a home made zip gun? Any decent pistol or revolver in Thailand will cost you in excess of 60K THB. So he was essentially giving it to you. That's a scary proposition. Especially when they come back later and haul you off for murder and you have the murder weapon in your possession. Worst case. Just as bad as if your wife uses it to protect your home from an home invasion, then the cops find her in possession of an unregistered gun. That's a serious crime here. The last thing you want to buy in Thailand is a used gun. That's asking for problems.

Edited March 25, 2016 by connda

[manarak]

This would not fly in the USA. You have to be in fear of losing your life and the person must be inside your home in the process of trying to kill you. Cop or no cop. I own many guns and this is why there are laws to stop this kind of B.S. I am not defending the crook. But you can't just shoot someone because you think he is breaking in your window. Could have been anything going on.

Sorry but you're wrong. Castle doctrine protects homeowners. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be breaking into a home except for the purposes to comit a felony.

The Castle Doctrine does protect the homeowners and those within the home, and the perp only needs to be inside of the house. The perp doesn't not have to be attempting to kill you. However, with that said, laws vary from state to state. If you are a gun owner who is defending your home, you better know that local laws.

In this particular case, the junior policeman probably didn't understand the Thai laws regarding the use of lethal force in defending one's life within their home. In Thailand, I'm pretty sure that the perp needs to have forced entry or entered uninvited, and be in the process of threatening your life or those within your home before you can act. Well, unless you're rich and well connected, then your can probably shoot them in the street and only be sentenced to community service which you can ignore.

Sorry when I posted earlier I meant castle doctrine not stand your ground. Does anybody actually know the Thai law in this regard? Pretty sure doesn't mean so much.

I very much hope it is castle doctrine, i.e. anyone breaking into other people's homes risk being shot dead, this is the only correct way to handle break-ins by unknown strangers.

I wouldn't get aggressive on people in the garden, but probably if they just broke a window or a door and want to come in. Easier to shoot fish when they are in a barrel.

People saying the intruder has first to be warned and then warning shots fired are out of their minds.

Lastly I want to say that people breaking into other people's homes are scum.

Yelling at them or warning them so they can flee is just giving them a chance to come back armed the next time. Good riddance.

Edited March 25, 2016 by manarak

[snowgard]

If you think you can just shoot someone in the arm or leg to disable them then think again.

Even trained police have trouble hitting someone in the center of mass from distances of more than 6' (2 m). All those amazingly accurate shots to the extremities you see on TV or in the movies are just a fantasy.

Are you a american? Than I understand it. I saw a lot of youtube videos about USA Police shootings. Horrorable, like playstation shooters!!! In other countries the policemen can shot very well on 10m!!! They learned it and must go exercise several times a year. They can shot in legs, in arms, in shoulders and if really needed in the head!!! I not understand why american policeman never learned it.

[little mary sunshine]

I applaud this cop!! Most of the burglars are scumbag

Druggies looking for money for their drugs....I too would

Blow this scum away. Also, I would be smart enough to

Plant a knife on him, and swear I was in fear of my life

And that of my families. One less scumbag that won't

Be stealing from anyone else. How can you kill someone

And be able to sleep.....I would sleep very well knowing this

Scum would no longer stealing from anyone else. Case

Closed!

[manarak]

If you think you can just shoot someone in the arm or leg to disable them then think again.

Even trained police have trouble hitting someone in the center of mass from distances of more than 6' (2 m). All those amazingly accurate shots to the extremities you see on TV or in the movies are just a fantasy.

Are you a american? Than I understand it. I saw a lot of youtube videos about USA Police shootings. Horrorable, like playstation shooters!!! In other countries the policemen can shot very well on 10m!!! They learned it and must go exercise several times a year. They can shot in legs, in arms, in shoulders and if really needed in the head!!! I not understand why american policeman never learned it.

Okay... please answer one question: did you ever try to shoot a 9mm pistol on a small, quickly and erratically moving target at a distance of 10 meters?

I did and I can tell you it's pretty damn difficult to hit the target.

For the record, I won the second prize in my club's shooting competition.

[Catoni]

One warning shot and the robber would never return, and would live to tell his robber friends too.

Now all Thailand knows big time, but the cop is in trouble big time,

Just thinking.

Sure... .as long as the criminal doesn't have his own gun..... dark out there.... things happening fast... Pregnant wife and kids in their rooms... so let's just guess that you know exactly what is in the criminal's mind, and you know for a fact that he is not hopped up on drugs, that the criminal breaking into the home is not armed, doesn't want to hurt anyone.... and he only wants to take some of the family's valuables...he isn't going to hurt your wife and children...

Pray that your guess is right as you decide to lay your pistol down and not fire...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Catoni

[anotheruser]

If you think you can just shoot someone in the arm or leg to disable them then think again.

Even trained police have trouble hitting someone in the center of mass from distances of more than 6' (2 m). All those amazingly accurate shots to the extremities you see on TV or in the movies are just a fantasy.

Are you a american? Than I understand it. I saw a lot of youtube videos about USA Police shootings. Horrorable, like playstation shooters!!! In other countries the policemen can shot very well on 10m!!! They learned it and must go exercise several times a year. They can shot in legs, in arms, in shoulders and if really needed in the head!!! I not understand why american policeman never learned it.

Law enforcement officers are trained to shoot to kill if they draw their weapons. They don't fire warning shots. The military will fire warning shots on certain occasions.IE a Somali pirate 500 meters off of a boat. Even then the warning shots are a signal that the people they are being issued to are well outgunned. No warning shots are ever given all things being equal.

However in close quarters involving hand guns if a police officer draws his weapon he is instructed to shoot to kill.

Edited March 25, 2016 by anotheruser

[TheLobster]

Instant justice and hopefully a deterrent to other similar lowlife.

As a Thai he would know you can't rely on the courts to put these sort of people away.

[snowgard]

Okay... please answer one question: did you ever try to shoot a 9mm pistol on a small, quickly and erratically moving target at a distance of 10 meters?

I did and I can tell you it's pretty damn difficult to hit the target.

For the record, I won the second prize in my club's shooting competition.

Yes, but a body from a 60-120kg man is not small. A rabbit is small and can move fast and I can shot it a lot of times.

[snowgard]

Law enforcement officers are trained to shoot to kill if they draw their weapons. They don't fire warning shots. The military will fire warning shots on certain occasions.IE a Somali pirate 500 meters off of a boat. Even then the warning shots are a signal that the people they are being issued to are well outgunned. No warning shots are ever given all things being equal.

However in close quarters involving hand guns if a police officer draws his weapon he is instructed to shoot to kill.

Are you serious? I was in military and we learned just to kill attackers. No warning shots!!! But in all countries where I lived in usually the police will be trained to disarm attackers and if appropriate to incapacitate they. But never the military!!!

Why so few people are killed by police in Europe? Because they learned their business!!!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Bravo. I would have done the same thing.

Except you'd go to jail.

[Naam]

No, you can't just kill someone even if they are robbing your house.

There was a case in the UK some years back of a farmer who shot and killed a burglar. He ended up serving time for it as the defence said the burglar was running away from the property when he was shot.

You are clear that Thailand is not under UK law right?

Thailand law actually says that you can only protect yourself with similar weapons as the invader is using.

So in other words if the invader only carries a knife then you are legally limited to a knife or the equivalent.

But I think the sentence in the OP already made it clear that the copper is in the wrong, as he should at least have given a warning first.

"I saw a man trying to gain entry through a first floor window. I shot at him until he fell down then called police," he added.

due diligence requires that the intruder is thoroughly questioned concerning intent, e.g.

"are you planning to steal a few valuables or also harm my family members or me?"

furthermore, before killing or maiming, the intruder has to list all weapons he carries (quantity and detailed description) enabling the homeowner to decide which of his own weapons is appropriate or "similar" to respond. this list should be witnessed by at least two (preferable four) neighbours.

only then further proceedings are allowed!

[farcanell]

You can't just shoot and kill someone for climbing over your wall with the intention of robbing you. That crime doesn't fit the punishment. Point the gun, tell him to freeze and let the on duty police deal with him.

Bring on the Tea Party and the Dads with guns and beautiful daughters brigade.

As I read it, he was already on the property, trying to gain entrance thru a lower floor window, vs climbing over the wall.

As to riddled with bullets... Inexperience and adrenaline perhaps led to the young cop unloading his mag on the perp.... And as the statement said that he kept firing till the perp fell down... So alternatively, perhaps he thought he had been missing the perp, so kept firing till he was sure.... On occasions that I go to the range, I'm always amazed at the grouping (or lack thereof) on the STATIONARY target, when I had all the time in the world to take the shot

As to leg shots.... Cops are taught to aim center mass, not to try Rambo head shots or shooting a weapon from a perps hand, or so I have been told by my many friends in the Australian tactical response group

That said... Modern countries generally have laws stating that you can use "equal force" to protect yourself, but this is a really grey area, because the perp may have unknown fighting skills or concealed weapons...,could even have priors for violence, or have killed sleeping victims... All this would be unknown to the young inexperienced copper with a gun... In the dark of night

And besides.. This is Thailand, not Oz or the Uk or USA, and we all know that there are many great differences between western laws and those used here.

So... This young copper may well loose his job, and get a 500 baht fine.... But I say "good job young fella" and I hope this doesn't have too much of a negative impact on your own life. ?

Edited March 25, 2016 by farcanell

[farcanell]

Law enforcement officers are trained to shoot to kill if they draw their weapons. They don't fire warning shots. The military will fire warning shots on certain occasions.IE a Somali pirate 500 meters off of a boat. Even then the warning shots are a signal that the people they are being issued to are well outgunned. No warning shots are ever given all things being equal.

However in close quarters involving hand guns if a police officer draws his weapon he is instructed to shoot to kill.

Are you serious? I was in military and we learned just to kill attackers. No warning shots!!! But in all countries where I lived in usually the police will be trained to disarm attackers and if appropriate to incapacitate they. But never the military!!!

Why so few people are killed by police in Europe? Because they learned their business!!!

Police special forces, in Australia, it's the tactical response group, are trained by military special forces, so I doubt the validity of your statement....,and besides, I would 100% expect a soldier to be more accurate with a weapon than a cop, as they have the opportunity and time to practice a lot more.... Which is also why ex military can easily transition to the police force, or mercenary groups, or close protection details, while cops become security guards.

So generally, if a cop shoots the perp in the leg... He missed his target!

[anotheruser]

Law enforcement officers are trained to shoot to kill if they draw their weapons. They don't fire warning shots. The military will fire warning shots on certain occasions.IE a Somali pirate 500 meters off of a boat. Even then the warning shots are a signal that the people they are being issued to are well outgunned. No warning shots are ever given all things being equal.

However in close quarters involving hand guns if a police officer draws his weapon he is instructed to shoot to kill.

Are you serious? I was in military and we learned just to kill attackers. No warning shots!!! But in all countries where I lived in usually the police will be trained to disarm attackers and if appropriate to incapacitate they. But never the military!!!

Why so few people are killed by police in Europe? Because they learned their business!!!

Because they don't have guns in normal situations? Police in the USA are trained to only use their guns if they think lethal force is required. they know they will be under intense scrutiny in the case of a fatality so they do not shoot to wound or if they are uncertain. Military protocols vary much more.

Edited March 25, 2016 by anotheruser

[balo]

Why not just shoot him once ? Maybe aim for his foot , and not kill him.

No, he had to fire many bullets and empty his gun just like the crazy Americans you read about in the news.

This is just a cold murder , was his life in danger ? Most probably not, he did not have to kill him.

[snowgard]

Police special forces, in Australia, it's the tactical response group, are trained by military special forces, so I doubt the validity of your statement....,and besides, I would 100% expect a soldier to be more accurate with a weapon than a cop, as they have the opportunity and time to practice a lot more.... Which is also why ex military can easily transition to the police force, or mercenary groups, or close protection details, while cops become security guards.

So generally, if a cop shoots the perp in the leg... He missed his target!

This show me you never was in the military. The most time you don't shot with real ammon. Only if you go really shooting.

But as a cop you gone shooting once the month in the beginning and after you MUST exercise every 3 month. If you can't reach your points you must come again..

[snowgard]

Why police in europe don't kill so much people? Why they shot only 1-3 or 4 times and just hit a leg or a shoulder and a american cop shot 14 times and more and killed someone?

WHY is this very big different? Because in europe policemen gone much more faster in prison if they KILL someone!!! They are not protected from the justice for murder someone!!!

[oslooskar]

Short answer NO YOUR NOT, well in civilised countries anyway. You can only kill someone if you have a genuine fear you life is in danger, the courts would also take into account whether you could flee e.g he's coming in a window and you could reasonably escape danger by going through the front door.

Nonsense! In a truly civilized society a law-abiding citizen is not required or expected to flee his own home and abandon it to the likes of a criminal. It's called the, "Castle Doctrine."

[oslooskar]

Why police in europe don't kill so much people?

Because, unlike the United States, Europe does not have an almost two thousand mile long border with a violent crime ridden Third World nation, nor does it have a Black population of 13% percent that is possessed of a very large and violent criminal class. However, that having been said, things are now rapidly deteriorating in Europe so maybe it would be a good idea for the police there to learn to shoot straight and more often.

[torpedo1970]

Why not just shoot him once ? Maybe aim for his foot , and not kill him.

No, he had to fire many bullets and empty his gun just like the crazy Americans you read about in the news.

This is just a cold murder , was his life in danger ? Most probably not, he did not have to kill him.

Spoken by a person that have not had any training of firing a handgun or any weapons.?

If you had any training, you would know how difficult it is to hit a foot or an arm even at a short distance.. all the stuff you see in the movies is just fiction.

Gun trainers usually tell you to aim for central mass or the biggest part of the body, that is also why people wear bullet proof west's erc....

If you had ever fired a gun at a bottle as a target (same size as an arm) you would understand the difficulties by this.

If you shoot somebody in their foot, it still render their arm capable of operating a gun to shoot you.....

your scenario is a dud, sorry......

[hgma]

Breaking in a property is usually not done empty handed, i suspect that 80% of the nighttime burglers are armed and dangerous.

Stabbing and shooting woken up victims are rugular in Thailand.

As for the claims made 'as in a civilized country' ????

Action speaks louder then words (which always result in "yes you did" and "no i didn't") get a cctv connection and make it clear for anyone that breaking into your home does have consequences

In 6 years time i lost 3 dogs........sudden death.........neighbors say .....burglers attempted to enter property and got scared of ...next day....food with ya bua (poison) and my best pal(s) dead.

No fear-No mercy for burglers @ our place.

[SGD]

We had a burglary at our house 4 years ago. At the time we were given security advice from a local policeman. I questioned him as to what we could do if we were attacked. He made it perfectly clear that only if we were attacked could we defend ourselves. He went on to add that if the thief died there wouldn't be a problem if a weapon was discovered next to the corpse.

Toy gun and sharp knife should be kept just in case.

[SGD]

We had a burglary at our house 4 years ago. At the time we were given security advice from a local policeman. I questioned him as to what we could do if we were attacked. He made it perfectly clear that only if we were attacked could we defend ourselves. He went on to add that if the thief died there wouldn't be a problem if a weapon was discovered next to the corpse.

And surely you have a spare knife in the kitchen, preferably not one from a matched set. Oz lawyer also suggested a new knife with price sticker still attached would indicate premeditated ill-intent.

From mom and pop store as big retailers can backtrack prices to dates and you don't want it being found to be 5 years old now do we ?

[halloween]

"You do not respond to a mosquito bite with a hammer."

PLO Lumumba

"Especially when the mosquito is on your testicles"

Me

[bamukloy]

According to what these posters say about Thai law..

-how do you know if the burglar has a gun?

-how can you tell to what extent you and your families lives are at threat?

-if he comes at you, you must you wait to see what weapon he had first?

I can just imagine..

" oh, my good man, i notice you are carrying a knife, yes?

Well, please allow me to put my gun away and afford me sufficient time to go the kitchen for my own knife so we can duke it out in accordance with the law"

i think in this circumstance i am happy with Thai law..if is applied to the circumstances of the crime.

the guy is invading somones house, he shouldnt be their in the first.

better than in some places in the west. I seem to recall, a burglar slips on something, can sue you for damages.

im not being an apologist, but for every instance where we can criticise Thai law, their is a western law that makes the victim suffer again after the crime, from the actions of some prlck who is to lazy to earn an honest $ or needs to steal to fund a drug habit.

let every house own 1 gun i say, then we will see a big decline in home invasions

[Bluespunk]

"You do not respond to a mosquito bite with a hammer."

PLO Lumumba

"Especially when the mosquito is on your testicles"

Me

Doesn't matter where it is.

The reaction of this cop was way out of proportion to the crime being committed.

He is clearly unfit for the role he has chosen in life, as he has neither the judgement nor control to be allowed to carry a weapon.

[SEEDGER]

Too many of you have been watching Television to long. As someone who has been involved in shooting sports I'm here to tell you shooting someone in the arm or leg when your adrenaline is pumping is not easy to do. Even the police in the US who shoot weekly miss suspects from ranges of 10 feet away. And as usual many of you say run away, or wait and see what happens. I applaud the officer. One less burglar one less criminal on the streets. Now if Thailand can address the Killers that drive expensive cars and families that are rich from killing average citizens as they drive down the road things may begin to work there way out.

[nuananddon]

Responsibility comes with owning a gun. Responsible gun owners know what the laws are and obey them. The laws on the books are obeyed by law abiding citizens, criminals don't, that's why they're called criminals. In this case the policeman acted irresponsibly. I don't feel sorry for the burglar, he knew the risks and finally paid the price for being a thief and criminal.