30 Year Lease to build home and rental units

[Naam]

Surely even you know that replacing outside air will cool a place even if it is from 50 to 45 degrees. It does not replace an AC, just replaces hot with cooler air. They are really effective in ceilings where heat can build up. This is not the case in containers but containers will be a whole lot hotter inside than outside so getting some air flow cools things. And some of them are driven by a power source so wind is not required.

i surely know that you are a genius and therefore i bow to your paramount knowledge of thermo-physics

[Naam]

You've conveyed to me that the 30 year lease is not practical for our particular circumstances, I knew about the 2 year 364 day leases, because that's what I negotiated on our current condo but you have passed or inferred other info which has been helpful.

For that, I thank you kindly.

let's get things straight Konini. i conveyed some facts concerning a 30y lease, the conclusion that these facts are not practical for your purposes was yours.

calling renting a condo or house leasing is (to me) more than unfamiliar. but then, English is my third language and i was trying to add to my education using an internet search function which confused me even more.

but whatever, i will stick to my definition and claim that one rents, not leases, a condo or a house, one leases, not rents, land and that there is a difference between renting and leasing a car. all afore-mentioned of course assuming your kind permission

[Konini]

This has been a great thread to follow! We have been here 20 years. Retired early, too. We started, by Renting a house, at only 15k a month. Unlike you, we bought out the lease at a discount, ( funny story, that, as the Thai owner found out that the Thai agent was pocketing 50%) of the rent. Change of plan.

Bought a type of container, more like a modular home, 3 bedroom, for under 1 million. Had it transported in, on to some very nice land. My wife is much like you, in terms of needing something to do, eg gardening, some DIY.

The modular home is a high maintenance cost. But we chose it, as all it took was a week to assemble.

With respect, my view is that you are making it too complicated, trying to resolve everything at the same time. Why not re-start, by dealing with each of the things that bother you, separately? You're paying too much in rent - so find a cheaper rental - a house with a lot of deferred maintenance and a run down garden. Preferably vacant. Sign up for as long a lease term as you can negotiate. I suspect that the container rental idea will fade away. Good luck with whatever you do, just be happy, it's a great country! Since you are a go getter, you might take up the idea, over the next 10-20 years, of developing a retirement home centre.

Thank you. You make a lot of sense.

[Konini]

I could do the work here where we are, there are so many minor imperfections that could be sorted out, but I really would like to be sitting in a garden at this time of a afternoon rather than having to think about going in from the balcony because the sun is about to be shining on my part of the balcony. It's a lifestyle thing and a something to do thing.

The garden is baking hot most of the day, then when it's cool enough to go outside you get bitten to death by the mozzies.

Can't ever sit on the grass because of all the bitey things living in it, even the cat and dog know better than to sit on the grass.

Garden, good idea in theory, but hardly practical in Thailand.

Sit in garden window starting now, beer and ice required, back in 30 minutes when the mozzies appear..

Lived in Melbourne long enough to know how to effectively use shade and evaporative cooling. Plenty of things to plant to keep the mozzies away too - a small citronella plant will keep most away, and if you really, really have to have some standing water for any reason, a few drops of paraffin put a layer on top of the water that the mozzies don't like.

The cold beer sounds good at the moment though.

(Please send rain to the north. Immediately.)

[Konini]

You've conveyed to me that the 30 year lease is not practical for our particular circumstances, I knew about the 2 year 364 day leases, because that's what I negotiated on our current condo but you have passed or inferred other info which has been helpful.

For that, I thank you kindly.

let's get things straight Konini. i conveyed some facts concerning a 30y lease, the conclusion that these facts are not practical for your purposes was yours.

calling renting a condo or house leasing is (to me) more than unfamiliar. but then, English is my third language and i was trying to add to my education using an internet search function which confused me even more.

but whatever, i will stick to my definition and claim that one rents, not leases, a condo or a house, one leases, not rents, land and that there is a difference between renting and leasing a car. all afore-mentioned of course assuming your kind permission

English is my first (and only) language - always had a sticking point with languages, but could do calculus in my head way before high school and before any teacher tried to teach it to me; they only found out because I got stuck at something and asked the bloke who I thought was the smartest of all teachers at junior school, but I've never been able to do languages. Only pi. Go figure. Back to the point, even though English is my native language I realise I could have worded that a little better. Anyway, I really do appreciate your input.

[sendintheclowns]

I could do the work here where we are, there are so many minor imperfections that could be sorted out, but I really would like to be sitting in a garden at this time of a afternoon rather than having to think about going in from the balcony because the sun is about to be shining on my part of the balcony. It's a lifestyle thing and a something to do thing.

The garden is baking hot most of the day, then when it's cool enough to go outside you get bitten to death by the mozzies.

Can't ever sit on the grass because of all the bitey things living in it, even the cat and dog know better than to sit on the grass.

Garden, good idea in theory, but hardly practical in Thailand.

Sit in garden window starting now, beer and ice required, back in 30 minutes when the mozzies appear..

Lived in Melbourne long enough to know how to effectively use shade and evaporative cooling. Plenty of things to plant to keep the mozzies away too - a small citronella plant will keep most away, and if you really, really have to have some standing water for any reason, a few drops of paraffin put a layer on top of the water that the mozzies don't like.

The cold beer sounds good at the moment though.

(Please send rain to the north. Immediately.)

fortunately, we choose a site near the Gulf...which means winds, most of the time ( and salt-salt-salt-salt-salt) . (I can send you a pack of sea-salt). seriously, are there no areas of local w inds...eg the river, or a highly (altitude) situated land site ?

[sendintheclowns]

I could do the work here where we are, there are so many minor imperfections that could be sorted out, but I really would like to be sitting in a garden at this time of a afternoon rather than having to think about going in from the balcony because the sun is about to be shining on my part of the balcony. It's a lifestyle thing and a something to do thing.

The garden is baking hot most of the day, then when it's cool enough to go outside you get bitten to death by the mozzies.

Can't ever sit on the grass because of all the bitey things living in it, even the cat and dog know better than to sit on the grass.

Garden, good idea in theory, but hardly practical in Thailand.

Sit in garden window starting now, beer and ice required, back in 30 minutes when the mozzies appear..

Lived in Melbourne long enough to know how to effectively use shade and evaporative cooling. Plenty of things to plant to keep the mozzies away too - a small citronella plant will keep most away, and if you really, really have to have some standing water for any reason, a few drops of paraffin put a layer on top of the water that the mozzies don't like.

The cold beer sounds good at the moment though.

(Please send rain to the north. Immediately.)

Just spent time with a large Thai family - visited several homes, far inland and no wind. All the areas around each house had a very coarse sand ground cover. Ok, they had old trees to provide shade. We have copied this ground cover. There were a couple of low hanging coconut trees. We brought in more, about 3 meters tall. After 3 years, the trunks have thickened and the branches have spread out, providing kits if shade. Planted lots and lots of lemongrass. No mozzies. . I guess that I am suggesting that you look for a run- down property with a garden which has this type of potential.. Best of luck with the search!

[simon43]

Simon got debunked on a previous thread

I'm not quite sure how you come to make that comment

The 'Bed & Breakfast' property that I own (yes, I own the building freehold in my name only) was built by me and a few Thai/Burmese workers. But wary of the WP rules, I only built that part of the property where I live, not the rented rooms. I maintain my own little house (ie DIY work), and use Thai staff to maintain the letting rooms. I look after the garden myself (because I live there). The business side of the property is managed on a day-to-day basis by the Thai staff.

The problem with foreigners getting 'caught out' re DIY is when that DIY leads to a commercial profit. For example, the case in Phuket where a couple of foreigners built their own boats. Building your own boat doesn't breach the WP rules. But selling the boat (as they did), does breach the rules. So I try to be careful about keeping the personal areas of my property separate from the business areas.

Having said that, the rules could be interpreted completely differently in another province or by a different immigration or Labour office...

Edited April 28, 2016 by simon43

[simon43]

Double post - sorry

Edited April 28, 2016 by simon43

[sendintheclowns]

Simon got debunked on a previous thread

I'm not quite sure how you come to make that comment

The 'Bed & Breakfast' property that I own (yes, I own the building freehold in my name only) was built by me and a few Thai/Burmese workers. But wary of the WP rules, I only built that part of the property where I live, not the rented rooms. I maintain my own little house (ie DIY work), and use Thai staff to maintain the letting rooms. I look after the garden myself (because I live there). The business side of the property is managed on a day-to-day basis by the Thai staff.

The problem with foreigners getting 'caught out' re DIY is when that DIY leads to a commercial profit. For example, the case in Phuket where a couple of foreigners built their own boats. Building your own boat doesn't breach the WP rules. But selling the boat (as they did), does breach the rules. So I try to be careful about keeping the personal areas of my property separate from the business areas.

Having said that, the rules could be interpreted completely differently in another province or by a different immigration or Labour office...

I'm not sure that I would rely on your interpretation, in Phuket or in any other provinces.

The way I see it (just my opinion) is that, if you own the buildings freehold, and you have guests, for whom TM 30 must be filed, would you not be the 'House Master' ? Then if you are the House master, would you not be deemed to be working?

[bangkoklawyer24]

The 'Bed & Breakfast' property that I own (yes, I own the building freehold in my name only)

You just think that you own the building. But you don't.

[Konini]

My interpretation is that you own the right to build whatever you like on the land then when your lease expires, it's not yours any more. Of course, a more portable house (re: my idea of shipping container conversion) could be moved to your next block of leased land. Or you could burn them down, providing there wasn't a clause in the lease to say any improvements had to be left for the owner - personally I wouldn't sign a lease like that, I would return the land to the owner in it's original condition.

The idea of being involved with living accommodation for anyone except my husband and I has been totally forgotten about now. Just something nice for the two of us ill do just nicely. All I've got to do is either find that perfect block of land which is probably not going to happen, or an old derelict house that I can work on.

One thing - I still didn't get an answer on one of my main concerns, which at the beginning of the thread I hadn't even thought of. Whichever way I go, my husband hates DIY with a passion and it's best all round if he isn't involved at all; this is going to be my project. I will, need to hire a man with a van or one of the Burmese labourers that hang around each morning on a road close to us to help me with heavy things, and of course I can lay as many wires and pipes as I like but I can't connect to the mains - that I can't see as being a problem, I'm bringing in a professional electrician or plumber to do the final connections. But for the times I need an extra pair of hands (or two), can I legally get and pay a day labourer in the same way that I can get a plumber or electrician?

I just don't want to fall foul of any laws, especially if I manage to upset the neighbours (very unlikely, meeting them and politely explaining that there will be occasional noise over the next little while and hoping that it does't inconvenience them too much and if someone is ill one day and needs rest, all noise will stop immediately should work - although I would do that anyway, it's only polite to) or worse, someone getting jealous and reporting me to immigration or department of labour for 'employing' people. I just want to stay legally sound.

[sendintheclowns]

My interpretation is that you own the right to build whatever you like on the land then when your lease expires, it's not yours any more. Of course, a more portable house (re: my idea of shipping container conversion) could be moved to your next block of leased land. Or you could burn them down, providing there wasn't a clause in the lease to say any improvements had to be left for the owner - personally I wouldn't sign a lease like that, I would return the land to the owner in it's original condition.

The idea of being involved with living accommodation for anyone except my husband and I has been totally forgotten about now. Just something nice for the two of us ill do just nicely. All I've got to do is either find that perfect block of land which is probably not going to happen, or an old derelict house that I can work on.

One thing - I still didn't get an answer on one of my main concerns, which at the beginning of the thread I hadn't even thought of. Whichever way I go, my husband hates DIY with a passion and it's best all round if he isn't involved at all; this is going to be my project. I will, need to hire a man with a van or one of the Burmese labourers that hang around each morning on a road close to us to help me with heavy things, and of course I can lay as many wires and pipes as I like but I can't connect to the mains - that I can't see as being a problem, I'm bringing in a professional electrician or plumber to do the final connections. But for the times I need an extra pair of hands (or two), can I legally get and pay a day labourer in the same way that I can get a plumber or electrician?

I just don't want to fall foul of any laws, especially if I manage to upset the neighbours (very unlikely, meeting them and politely explaining that there will be occasional noise over the next little while and hoping that it does't inconvenience them too much and if someone is ill one day and needs rest, all noise will stop immediately should work - although I would do that anyway, it's only polite to) or worse, someone getting jealous and reporting me to immigration or department of labour for 'employing' people. I just want to stay legally sound.

.with all due respect khun Konini, you have most of the right ideas, re: seeking permission first, not Pi##ing off anyone.

But, " legally sound" now there's a thought which I refer back to, when I am in 'Western legal mode'...but I try to lay down until the feeling passes ??

[rhodie]

Surely even you know that replacing outside air will cool a place even if it is from 50 to 45 degrees. It does not replace an AC, just replaces hot with cooler air. They are really effective in ceilings where heat can build up. This is not the case in containers but containers will be a whole lot hotter inside than outside so getting some air flow cools things. And some of them are driven by a power source so wind is not required.

i surely know that you are a genius and therefore i bow to your paramount knowledge of thermo-physics

Bla, bla, bla.... Give me a counter argument to what I said!

[Naam]

Surely even you know that replacing outside air will cool a place even if it is from 50 to 45 degrees. It does not replace an AC, just replaces hot with cooler air. They are really effective in ceilings where heat can build up. This is not the case in containers but containers will be a whole lot hotter inside than outside so getting some air flow cools things. And some of them are driven by a power source so wind is not required.

i surely know that you are a genius and therefore i bow to your paramount knowledge of thermo-physics

Bla, bla, bla.... Give me a counter argument to what I said!

my time is too valuable to waste it discussing the changing colours of a sunrise with blind people.

[blackcab]

My interpretation is that you own the right to build whatever you like on the land then when your lease expires, it's not yours any more. Of course, a more portable house (re: my idea of shipping container conversion) could be moved to your next block of leased land. Or you could burn them down, providing there wasn't a clause in the lease to say any improvements had to be left for the owner - personally I wouldn't sign a lease like that, I would return the land to the owner in it's original condition.

The idea of being involved with living accommodation for anyone except my husband and I has been totally forgotten about now. Just something nice for the two of us ill do just nicely. All I've got to do is either find that perfect block of land which is probably not going to happen, or an old derelict house that I can work on.

One thing - I still didn't get an answer on one of my main concerns, which at the beginning of the thread I hadn't even thought of. Whichever way I go, my husband hates DIY with a passion and it's best all round if he isn't involved at all; this is going to be my project. I will, need to hire a man with a van or one of the Burmese labourers that hang around each morning on a road close to us to help me with heavy things, and of course I can lay as many wires and pipes as I like but I can't connect to the mains - that I can't see as being a problem, I'm bringing in a professional electrician or plumber to do the final connections. But for the times I need an extra pair of hands (or two), can I legally get and pay a day labourer in the same way that I can get a plumber or electrician?

I just don't want to fall foul of any laws, especially if I manage to upset the neighbours (very unlikely, meeting them and politely explaining that there will be occasional noise over the next little while and hoping that it does't inconvenience them too much and if someone is ill one day and needs rest, all noise will stop immediately should work - although I would do that anyway, it's only polite to) or worse, someone getting jealous and reporting me to immigration or department of labour for 'employing' people. I just want to stay legally sound.

No problem paying other people to do the work for you. Your problem might be finding someone competent to do the final connections for you.

[KonaRain]

You've conveyed to me that the 30 year lease is not practical for our particular circumstances, I knew about the 2 year 364 day leases, because that's what I negotiated on our current condo but you have passed or inferred other info which has been helpful.

For that, I thank you kindly.

let's get things straight Konini. i conveyed some facts concerning a 30y lease, the conclusion that these facts are not practical for your purposes was yours.

calling renting a condo or house leasing is (to me) more than unfamiliar. but then, English is my third language and i was trying to add to my education using an internet search function which confused me even more.

but whatever, i will stick to my definition and claim that one rents, not leases, a condo or a house, one leases, not rents, land and that there is a difference between renting and leasing a car. all afore-mentioned of course assuming your kind permission

Third language?

Lease in U.S. means a contract for a (secured ) rental. Gives a tenant some rights in a housing situation.

Rent a car for a day, lease it for (3) years. Then turn it in for a new one.

Some land is leased in Hawaii, and the rest is fee simple, owned, except for taxes..

I gotta go back to sleep..

Aloha

[simon43]

You just think that you own the building. But you don't.

My lease contract for the land names me (and only me), as the owner of any buildings that are built on the land during the lease term. The contract states that I have the sole right to demolish all buildings if I so wish, should the lease contract not be renewed, or should I choose not to accept a renewal.

[Naam]

You've conveyed to me that the 30 year lease is not practical for our particular circumstances, I knew about the 2 year 364 day leases, because that's what I negotiated on our current condo but you have passed or inferred other info which has been helpful.

For that, I thank you kindly.

let's get things straight Konini. i conveyed some facts concerning a 30y lease, the conclusion that these facts are not practical for your purposes was yours.

calling renting a condo or house leasing is (to me) more than unfamiliar. but then, English is my third language and i was trying to add to my education using an internet search function which confused me even more.

but whatever, i will stick to my definition and claim that one rents, not leases, a condo or a house, one leases, not rents, land and that there is a difference between renting and leasing a car. all afore-mentioned of course assuming your kind permission

Third language?

Lease in U.S. means a contract for a (secured ) rental. Gives a tenant some rights in a housing situation.

Rent a car for a day, lease it for (3) years. Then turn it in for a new one.

Some land is leased in Hawaii, and the rest is fee simple, owned, except for taxes..

I gotta go back to sleep..

Aloha

in the U.S. they don't speak English, they speak American

[rhodie]

Surely even you know that replacing outside air will cool a place even if it is from 50 to 45 degrees. It does not replace an AC, just replaces hot with cooler air. They are really effective in ceilings where heat can build up. This is not the case in containers but containers will be a whole lot hotter inside than outside so getting some air flow cools things. And some of them are driven by a power source so wind is not required.

i surely know that you are a genius and therefore i bow to your paramount knowledge of thermo-physics

Bla, bla, bla.... Give me a counter argument to what I said!

my time is too valuable to waste it discussing the changing colours of a sunrise with blind people.

Oh well. <yawn>